2012-08-28

<hcarty> thelema: Done. That clears up one of the warnings on the admin page.
<hcarty> _andre: Thanks - I'll test and then push it up the version chain.
<_andre> hcarty: done
<thelema> hcarty: I don't mind at all.
<hcarty> _andre: Thank you very much. Would you like to upload it to oasis-db? Otherwise I can do so.
<hcarty> thelema: Do you mind if I remove the ocamlgsl packages from oasis-db? Markus Mottl's official packages are pre-oasis'd and probably a safer thing to keep around at this point.
<hcarty> _andre: Thanks! One more step on the way to getting the oasis-db's packages all OCaml 4.x installable :-)
<hcarty> _andre: Would you mind making an updated uint release? Or would you mind if I uploaded a git snapshot to oasis-db?
<thelema> hcarty: zip has been pushed to upstream, I think the godi community will be able to keep compatibility with both names
<hcarty> thelema: Agreed
<hcarty> thelema: I will once I get either of them properly/somewhat into Batteries :-)
<thelema> hcarty: also, we should probably have a general in_range function, maybe in Ord
<hcarty> thelema: On the zip/camlzip front - I think both zip and camlzip have similar lengths of history.
<thelema> hcarty: send pull requests
<hcarty> thelema: Incubator is my plan for both, unless one or both modules get enough testing and feedback from others before release.
<thelema> hcarty: as for 2.0, very easy to get in as Incubator, without guarantees of stability.
<hcarty> thelema: Bounded is good, thanks
<thelema> hcarty: how about 'Bounded'?
<thelema> hcarty: adding code is much easier than changing/removing anything.
<hcarty> Suggestions for a module/functor for representing values of a limited range (ex. integers from 1 to 10) are welcome from anyone :-)
<hcarty> thelema: I'd also like to get Umatrix ported to Batteries and submitted as well (http://0ok.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/ulib/tree/umatrix.mli)
<hcarty> thelema: I had asked about adding this to Batteries before. I'd like to try to get it in before 2.0, but I don't know if I'll have time.
<hcarty> thelema: Any suggestions for a module name for limited range values? See here for some sample code: https://raw.github.com/gist/3388696/52d29fc5fc918e14f565150be7465b2e06f5ce10/limited.ml

2012-08-24

<fasta> hcarty: is there some way to let GODI + odb + ocamlbrew cooperate?

2012-08-22

<thelema> hcarty: ah, interesting. I guess oasis didn't have support for that before.
<hcarty> thelema: That's what I gather from the diff
<hcarty> thelema: I think the Object support is for building .cmx and .cmo output.
<thelema> hcarty: you're welcome
<hcarty> adrien: It's the Mantis RSS, which makes sense.
<hcarty> adrien: You're welcome. At some point I subscribed to an RSS with lots of OCaml mantis activity. I don't remember which feed it is, but the results are certainly interesting.
<adrien> hcarty: thanks :-)
<hcarty> thelema: Also, thank you for being a voice of calm and reason yesterday.
<hcarty> thelema: I was wondering the same re:oasis and Object sections.
<hcarty> adrien: On Mantis. I think that there is a patch.

2012-08-21

<hcarty> thelema: Cool. I have a note for myself to do the same for ocamlbrew.
<thelema> hcarty: I'm documenting all the environment variables that odb uses
<hcarty> thelema: Those should be documented. Another item for the TODO list.
<hcarty> s/possible/feasible/
<hcarty> thelema deserves lots of thanks for making all of this remotely possible.
<hcarty> thelema: Thank you
<hcarty> Or perhaps:
<hcarty> fasta_: You're welcome!
<fasta_> hcarty: that's certainly worth a thank you.
<hcarty> fasta_, thelema: For what it's worth, ocamlbrew invoked as thelema described works fine for OCaml 3.12.1.
<hcarty> Not the friendliest version string I've seen.
<hcarty> thelema: Yes :-)
<thelema> hcarty: that was part of the version string?!
<hcarty> Although it could be any of those
<hcarty> thelema: I think it's the ( and )
<hcarty> fasta_: It's something in the OCaml source code. It could be patched out, although I'm not sure it's worth the effort.
<hcarty> thelema: Thanks, beat me to it
<hcarty> set OCAML_MAJOR_VERSION=3 OCAML_MINOR_VERSION=12 OCAML_PATCH_VERSION=1
<hcarty> fasta_: If you specify an OCaml version rather than telling ocamlbrew to pull from Subversion it will do that
<fasta_> hcarty: oh
<hcarty> fasta_: Pulling from an arbitrary svn version an expected use case
<fasta_> hcarty: why doesn't the script simply fetch a release tarball or doesn't svn support that?
<fasta_> hcarty: as such, by using a non-released version, you introduced a problem.
<hcarty> fasta_: Correct
<fasta_> hcarty: but the OCaml release doesn't have that version string.
<hcarty> thelema: The Objective Caml compiler, version 3.12.2+closed (2012-03-08)
<hcarty> thelema: It looks like camomile's build system can't handle the version string that version of OCaml spits out.
<hcarty> The problem comes up when camomile starts to install. I'm not sure why it happens.
<hcarty> fasta_: version/3.12 in Subversion <> the ocaml-3.12.1.tar.gz release tarball.
<thelema> fasta_: hcarty's ocamlbrew code seems quite reasonably written
<fasta_> hcarty: I have installed 3.12 from source myself.
<hcarty> fasta_: ocamlbrew doesn't magically fix compiler bugs or incompatibilities with libraries.
<fasta_> hcarty: so, you are saying that your perlbrew intended functionality is nothing more but a glorified 4.00 installer?
<hcarty> fasta_: I don't know. Perhaps a bug or other incompatibility in version/3.12's commits.
<hcarty> fasta_: The same Makefile:38 issue happens with a clean, ocamlbrew-less environment.
<fasta_> hcarty: then what is?
<hcarty> fasta_: As I said earlier, the environment is not the issue.
<fasta_> hcarty: that was clear for you, wasn't it?
<fasta_> hcarty: I communicated one problem.
<hcarty> Good. Then we're done. Nice work everyone.
<fasta_> hcarty: neither am I.
<hcarty> fasta_: I'm not the one trying to communicate a problem...
<fasta_> hcarty: otherwise you break the abstraction.
<fasta_> hcarty: it seems obvious that every invocation should get a new scratch space.
<hcarty> fasta_: The build directory is a scratch space.
<hcarty> fasta_: That's not relevant here
<hcarty> fasta_: I do.
<fasta_> hcarty: other than that.
<fasta_> hcarty: I don't see any use case.
<hcarty> fasta_: That's up to them. It shouldn't cause an issue.
<fasta_> hcarty: do you want people reusing such directories?
<hcarty> fasta_: I don't see a perfect answer, or even a better answer than the one that exists.
<fasta_> hcarty: I think I already told you a solution for that.
<hcarty> fasta_: I was stating that I don't know how to address the ODB_BUILD_DIR issue.
<hcarty> fasta_: I have. But to repeat myself: "patches are welcome"
<hcarty> Well, ocamlbrew DOES have rocketry in its core. That was intended to be a secret.
<fasta_> hcarty: I am not sure to who I am talking here, but this is really, really basic stuff.
<fasta_> hcarty: in all cases, this is not rocket science.
<fasta_> hcarty: if it is, scream loudly how to get rid of it, but continue.
<hcarty> fasta_: One may wish to separate the build directory from the base directory. Particularly odb's build base since it would generally be used after the ocamlbrew process.
<fasta_> hcarty: if not scream very loudly.
<fasta_> hcarty: otherwise just go to the user specified dir and check whether it is empty.
<hcarty> The same issue comes up with a clean build in a clean environment.
<fasta_> hcarty: the *BASE* directory.
<hcarty> But it looks like that was a red herring.
<fasta_> hcarty: unlikely, because you already have a top-level directory for that.
<hcarty> fasta_: Because someone may want to change that location.
<hcarty> So the issue could be another environment variable that is causing a conflict or some change in version/3.12 that is causing trouble. Or something else.
<hcarty> fasta_: It's set by ocamlbrew's bashrc file.
<fasta_> hcarty: I am not even using ODB_BUILD_DIR myself.
<hcarty> fasta_: As far as I know at this point at least. It's perfectly acceptable to point ODB_BUILD_DIR to another location.
<hcarty> fasta_: It is properly defined.
<hcarty> fasta_: I'm testing "./ocamlbrew -a -s version/3.12" now in a clean environment.
<fasta_> hcarty: the right way to solve this would be to have ocamlbrew refuse to do any work, until its environment is properly defined.
<hcarty> fasta_: Clearing the environment of ocamlbrew and odb environment variables is the way to go here.
<hcarty> fasta_: ocamlbrew doesn't need an existing OCaml installation
<fasta_> hcarty: using the system ocaml?
<fasta_> hcarty: what does work then?
<hcarty> Until those changes are made I should put something in the README and runtime notice/documentation saying that you should not try to do a fresh ocamlbrew from within an existing ocamlbrew environment.
<hcarty> I'm not sure how to address that without significant additions to ocamlbrew. Additions that I would like to make, but haven't yet.
<hcarty> ("it" being ocamlbrew in this case)
<hcarty> So if ODB_BUILD_DIR is set it won't set it to something else.
<hcarty> : ${ODB_BUILD_DIR="$BUILD_DIR"/odb}
<hcarty> Ah
<hcarty> The prefix is set properly but the build directory is not
<hcarty> But it looks like the build directory isn't set correctly
<fasta_> hcarty: so, AFAIK, the issue is that it uses the wrong version.
<fasta_> hcarty: indeed
<hcarty> ocamlbrew/ocaml-svn/version/3.12/bin/odb.ml
<hcarty> fasta_: odb.ml should be in bin/
<hcarty> fasta_: Very interesting
<fasta_> hcarty: because otherwise it will find the 4.00 one.
<fasta_> hcarty: no, from the one containing 3.12
<hcarty> fasta_: From the root ocamlbrew directory?
<fasta_> hcarty: find . -name odb => empty
<hcarty> thelema: And oops, yes you're correct.
<hcarty> thelema: Depends on what options you pass. That's the default.
<thelema> hcarty: really? oops
<hcarty> fasta_: ocamlbrew/ocaml-svn/version/3.12/build/odb/install-${package}/Makefile most likely
<hcarty> Starting over with --debug. Man, it would be nice if ocamlbrew supported picking an installation back up part way through :-)
<hcarty> thelema: Yes
<thelema> hcarty: makefile:38 for you too?
<hcarty> Same error. Interesting.
<thelema> hcarty: that's what I would expect too.
<hcarty> fasta_: It's currently going through utop's build and installation... and just failed.
<hcarty> fasta_: Yes
<hcarty> thelema: They should be the same...
<fasta_> hcarty: for version/3.12?
<hcarty> FWIW, "./ocamlbrew -a" is working properly for me while under an brew'd 4.00.0 environment.
<thelema> hcarty: ah, true.
<hcarty> Or for gildor since it sounds like fasta_ is talking about oasis's output.
<thelema> fasta_: if it's important to you, you should make it sufficiently easy so that `(benefit_of_patch - added_complexity) > work_to_apply` for hcarty
<hcarty> fasta_: I'm trying it here
<hcarty> fasta_: All of the open bugs are more in the feature request category. They are perhaps nice to have but do not affect (my?) use of ocamlbrew.
<hcarty> thelema: A fair point. And I shouldn't feed the trolls. Bug reporting now...
<thelema> hcarty: I admit I'm less inclined to go out of my way for pushy, self-righteous people like fasta, but fwiw, he seems to have calmed down today.
<hcarty> thelema: Indeed. I could spend my time here or there.
<thelema> fasta_, hcarty: if either of you were less lazy, that person would spend 30 seconds typing "continue an incomplete build" into the issues for ocamlbrew on github
<hcarty> fasta_: When it's something I do in my spare time, not as much.
<hcarty> fasta_: If I were spending my workday maintaining ocamlbrew, perhaps.
<hcarty> fasta_: I don't know what that means.
<fasta_> hcarty: bureaucracy
<hcarty> fasta_: ???
<fasta_> hcarty: forgive me, but I get associations of French government workers.
<fasta_> hcarty: so, copy paste the above in a file called BUGS.
<hcarty> fasta_: I don't memorize my conversations with you
<hcarty> fasta_: Because I will forget
<fasta_> hcarty: it's clear what the problem is, no?
<fasta_> hcarty: why doesn't this count as a bug report?
<hcarty> fasta_: Patches are welcome :-) Or a bug report.
<hcarty> fasta_: I agree
<fasta_> hcarty: it's also a problem that it cannot continue a build.
<thelema> hcarty: n/m; Aliases are not expanded when the shell is not interactive, unless the
<thelema> hcarty: reading...
<hcarty> thelema: Do you know if that unaliasing will carry over outside of ocamlbrew's execution?
<thelema> hcarty: maybe ocamlbrew should unalias 'ocaml' before running 'ocaml odb.ml'
<hcarty> fasta_: If you do have trouble with ocamlbrew please let me know. I don't have a lot of time to spend on it but I try to fix bugs when they come up.
<fasta_> hcarty: I think it happens during Installing camomile.
<fasta_> hcarty: ocamlbrew dies with Exception: Failure "_oasis file not found in package, cannot bootstrap." for 3.12, btw.
<fasta_> hcarty: one can also argue that this is an OCaml upstream problem.
<fasta_> hcarty: because if that is the case, OCaml builds will always fail.
<fasta_> hcarty: for ocamlbrew, can you add some logic which tests whether a partial build has already been done?
<fasta_> hcarty: e.g. you could steal the PostgreSQL tree implementation.
<fasta_> hcarty: having a number of different processes with some parallel concurrent tree for the mapping should work fine.
<hcarty> I need to do some tests to find out how long each step takes (creating the file descriptor; mapping the file as a bigarray; reading a value from the bigarray)
<hcarty> The goal is to be able to have a large number of files mapped and ready for random access.
<hcarty> That isn't ideal, but it may be my only option.
<hcarty> diml: I thought that might be the case. Could I use separate processes and pass around file descriptors between them?
<hcarty> diml: Thank you, I'll take a look
<diml> hcarty: you can use Lwt_bytes.wait_mincore to wait for data to be fetched to the cache
<diml> hcarty: access to a mapped bigarray will be blocking
<hcarty> diml: Are you aware of any potential pitfalls when mixing Lwt and Bigarrays mapped to files?

2012-08-16

<hcarty> Some do. thelema's work on odb got something usable in place; gildor added oasis-db support on the server side; ocamlbrew shows that you can go from no OCaml to OCaml + a basic suite of libraries without a lot of fuss
<hcarty> We aren't done yet, but odb provided a simple and usable tool that was sorely missed up to its release.
<hcarty> jonafan: odb.ml makes installing Batteries quite simple, under GODI or otherwise. Between odb/oasis-db and opam we are gradually winding toward something we can point to and say, "Here. All OCaml things should be placed here by developers and installable from here by users"
<hcarty> Drakken: Very cool.
<Drakken> hcarty I take back everything I said yesterday about filter_map.
<paolooo> hcarty: yeah :) thanks.
<hcarty> It's a wonderful tool for experimenting and the lessons are helpful too.
<hcarty> paolooo: Ah yes, sorry! I should have pointed that one out too :-)
<paolooo> hcarty: companion_cube: I just found this one. I think this is a good start as well : http://try.ocamlpro.com/
<paolooo> hcarty: I see. Thanks for the nice info.
<hcarty> While it's getting better slowly, OCaml doesn't have the friendly outward face that any of Perl/Ruby/Python have.
<hcarty> paolooo: Marketing and to a lesser extent perceived ease of getting something out quickly
<hcarty> Type inference in a language with static types has spoiled me vs languages like Ruby/Python/Perl.
<paolooo> hcarty: companion_cube I see... what about ruby vs Ocaml? Ruby is really popular nowadays. Why is it OCaml isn't popular as other language?
<hcarty> companion_cube: Well said
<hcarty> I was primarily using Perl and C before OCaml. I still use both Perl and C a fair amount, but these days OCaml tends to be what I reach for first.
<hcarty> paolooo: Safety (vs C and somewhat Java), speed, expressiveness
<hcarty> thelema: I'll leave it alone and address |? again when -ppx is available and supported/stable.
<paolooo> hcarty: ah I see... why did you use OCaml instead of other languages like C or Java?
<hcarty> thelema: I agree regarding |?
<hcarty> paolooo: I have some libraries publicly released. Most of the applications I've written are internal, for my job.
<paolooo> hcarty: awesome... can you show me one? :)
<hcarty> paolooo: Yes, several
<paolooo> hcarty: have you created an application from ocaml?
<paolooo> hcarty: Thank you :)
<hcarty> paolooo: Those should at least help you get started :-)
<hcarty> paolooo: You're welcome. For a quick overview, this page is nice as well - http://www.ffconsultancy.com/products/ocaml_for_scientists/chapter1.html
<paolooo> hcarty: Thanks
<hcarty> paolooo: There are a few. The first chapter of the official manual provides a nice introduction. Jason Hickey's book is useful as well: www.cs.caltech.edu/courses/cs134/cs134b/book.pdf

2012-08-15

<thelema_> hcarty: the operator |? thing is a weakness of ocaml; without having if/then/else hoisted through function definition (i.e. syntactic substitution), lazy arguments are a poor hack. Maybe with the -ppx extension in 4.00, this can be done properly
<hcarty> flux: Enjoy the break! And you're welcome - I'm glad it's useful.
<hcarty> flux: Agreed.
<flux> hcarty, it's just that I'm always doing odb.ml | tr ' ' '\n' | grep .. - I guess an option would do but.. I suppose the flipside is that when there will be lots of packages, the default output of odb.ml will be long, but perhaps it should have a separate command for listing available packages and default to usage
<hcarty> flux: And that sounds like csv needs to have its oasis version updated too :-)
<hcarty> flux: (and the updated uint doesn't rely on ospec since it is only needed for testing... still good to have, but not 100% required for a build)
<hcarty> flux: Regarding \n for package separation in odb - I've considered that as well. Given a patch, I would guess thelema_ may agree, or at least be willing to add ' ' vs '\n' as different options for printing packages.
<hcarty> flux: I (or someone else) "just" need(s) to make new .tar.gz archives of the updated code and upload uint and zmq to oasis-db
<hcarty> flux: I have a bug in for ospec and made pull requests on github for ocaml-uint and zmq which were both accepted.
<flux> hcarty, would it be a good feature for odb to list 'available package' separated by newlines instead of spaces? so I can do odb.ml | grep ..
<hcarty> Drakken: Thank you for the comments
<hcarty> I should probably take this to the Batteries mailing list if I'm going to seriously consider it.
<hcarty> I don't know which evaluation form is better. I tend to think less typing is better if no clarity is lost.
<hcarty> Lazy.t would prevent repeated evaluation of the RHS if it is a named value. A thunk requires a bit more typing and forces repeated evaluation of the RHS.
<hcarty> s/and it use/and I use/
<hcarty> My use of |? is sometimes I/O related, but not always.
<hcarty> I don't think I've ever used filter_map for I/O, and it use it often - at least the List version.
<hcarty> A large number of Enum.* values are exposed in BatPervasives.
<hcarty> I've been bitten by the fact that the operator doesn't short-circuit like || and &&. That's primarily where my interest in a lazy form comes from.
<hcarty> More so than the one that isn't lazy?
<hcarty> Drakken: The lazy version of the operator?
<hcarty> Drakken: In some cases, yes. Not always.
<Drakken> hcarty do you expect the rhs expression to be evaluated more than once?
<hcarty> To be more specific - I am curious to hear opinions on whether a |? operator as described above should be lazy or eager when evaluating its fallback argument.
<hcarty> thelema_ or anyone else - Opinions?
<hcarty> This could be helpful for cases like: let do_stuff configuration = let configuration = configuration |? lazy (load_default_config ()) in ...
<hcarty> So the lazy version would be: let ( |? ) a b = match a with Some x -> x | None -> Lazy.force b
<hcarty> A recent question on stackoverflow is making me wonder if making the second argument lazy would be a good idea. That would help avoid unexpected execution if the expressions on the right hand side of |? involves side effects.
<hcarty> I submitted a ( |? ) operator to Batteries which acts like Option.default ("None |? 1" returns 1, "Some 2 |? 1" returns 2). Unfortunately the operator does not short-circuit, so the right side always evaluates.
<hcarty> adrien: True :-)
<hcarty> adrien: You have "LablGtk2 Tutorial" listed twice, each linking to a different tutorial.
<hcarty> adrien: Perhaps, but I think it still looks better than the f.o.o version.
<hcarty> madroach: Lwt provides something as well.

2012-08-14

<hcarty> gnuvince: I doubt it. Debian unstable still has 3.12.1.
<gnuvince> hcarty: not even 12.10?
<hcarty> Anarchos: :-) You could always test ocamlbrew on haikuOS if it has bash...
<Anarchos> hcarty i often compile ocaml myself cause there are no packages manager on haikuOS :)
<hcarty> gnuvince: You can compile OCaml 4.00.0 with ocamlbrew if you want to test it. But I expect that it will be Ubuntu 13.04 before OCaml 4.00.x makes it in.
<companion_cube> hcarty: I use functional udpates, but then you need to put the initializers in val
<hcarty> companion_cube: http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/manual005.html#toc20 -- references to self
<hcarty> companion_cube: http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/manual005.html#toc30 -- for the functional update part
<hcarty> companion_cube: Functional updates may do what you want. If not, you can have a "self" value and use it how you described.

2012-08-13

<hcarty> s/up and running/compiled and installed/
<hcarty> fasta: If you package ocsigen in a way that is compatible with oasis-db then you can have ocsigen up and running in three commands.
<hcarty> fasta: Then contribute to the build system
<hcarty> jonafan: That's my new guess.
<hcarty> jonafan: fasta is performing a social experiment on reactions to the absurd.
<thelema> hcarty: ack on camlzip META
<hcarty> thelema: You may want to remove the META file in the camlzip repository (trunk/META) if you're going to move to oasis.
<hcarty> Fedora/RHEL uses 'zip' as the findlib name.
<hcarty> adrien: Thankfully (caml)zip is one of the few libraries without an official findlib name, at least up until now.
<hcarty> IIRC, Debian used 'zip' first, but the time difference wasn't that large.
<hcarty> thelema: I had asked both the GODI and Debian folks about the difference a few years ago.
<hcarty> thelema: I saw that email. I think Debian and Fedora use zip.
<hcarty> thelema: That too. Firefox's history completion gets most of the credit there.
<thelema> hcarty: unfortunately, I just got an email from ashish that godi uses camlzip as the findlib name
<adrien> hcarty, thelema: thanks; saved it
<hcarty> adrien: I think that zip is more common than camlzip as a findlib name
<hcarty> thelema: I can open terminals super-fast!
<thelema> hcarty: you beat me to it.
<hcarty> adrien: That's odb
<hcarty> adrien: http://vpaste.net/lHafA
<hcarty> I should add a regex quotation to xstrp4...
<hcarty> madroach: You could use some camlp4 magic to get around the double quoting. Depending on your approach it may not save many characters, but it could make the regexs more readable.

2012-08-12

<thelema> hcarty: hmm, it should have been ready; I tried merging the ocaml4.00 branch into master
<ftrvxmtrx> hcarty, there's a branch called ocaml4.00
<hcarty> thelema: I guess OCaml 4.x breaks a lot for Batteries-master. I thought that it was 4.x ready, but that appears to not be true.
<hcarty> thelema: It looks like OCaml 4.00.0 breaks Digest for Batteries?
<hcarty> thelema: This came up while getting ready to test a Float.is_finite patch
<hcarty> thelema: from_hex and compare are said to be missing from batteries.ml line 112
<hcarty> thelema: I get a signature mismatch error when trying to build Batteries-master from github

2012-08-10

<hcarty> thelema: Sounds good :-)
<thelema> hcarty: send a pull request with documentation (doesn't have to be long) and some tests; bonus points for testing is_special if it's not tested)
<hcarty> thelema: The question comes because I have found myself writing "Module.filter (Float.is_special |- not) floaty_collection" more often than I would like.
<hcarty> thelema: Would you be opposed to Float.is_finite in Batteries 2.0? The opposite of Float.is_special I suppose.

2012-08-09

<wmeyer`> hcarty: So I managed to install OCaml on AC100. However, there were some problems, and I could not fully utilize ocamlbrew. First thing, lack of memory made it swap heavily - until actually I ran in pure text console. Second, gcc had a bug that caused hang during compilation of one file. So for this issues, I think ocamlbrew could have a --continue option, or option of installing everything apart from OCaml. The installation
<hcarty> gildor: When you're around the #ocaml topic could use a refresh for the 4.00.0 release.

2012-08-07

<wmeyer`> hcarty: Cheers!
<hcarty> wmeyer`: Have fun!
<wmeyer`> hcarty: Thanks, first I need to get emacs git and my WM, and the browser...
<wmeyer`> hcarty: I don't expect any huge problems in fact