2011-03-09

<tuxbrain> wpwrak: (shipping) I will do tomorrow, my daughter is on vacation and I can't go to postal office, tomorrow she will be out all day so I will send to you(50) , kristianpaul(10) and rjeffries(10)

2011-03-08

<rjeffries_> mumble: supporting h/w flow control on nxuart is prolly A Good Thing
<rjeffries_> wpwrak did you see: http://shop.moderndevice.com/products/bub_ii

2011-03-07

<rjeffries> challenge if design stays as is will be how to attach ribbon cable to femtoduino I guess
<rjeffries> I doubt he can handle the thinner PCBs. does atUSB require 0.8 mm? also if we have UBBs via tuxbrain, then attaching femtoduino via s short cable will be ok/fine
<wpwrak> rjeffries: yeah, no setup fee is great for prototypes. doesn't say if he can do 0.8 mm boards, though
<rjeffries> wpwrak the femtoduino guy tells me: I get all my PCBs from http://dorkbotpdx.org/wiki/pcb_order .. cheap, great quality, ROHS compliant and made in USA!\
<rjeffries> I wonder if femtoduino can be powered from Ben
<rjeffries> one nice thing about femtoduino is it should appeal to a wider market where Ben owners are a subset
<rjeffries> have you compared his design with your uart design?
<rjeffries> femtoduino hits all the right freedom notes, license etc, used KiCad
<rjeffries> wonder if anybody is selling it
<rjeffries> also n=400 is a LOT of people you'd expect a few are active
<wpwrak> rjeffries: it may be a somewhat cultural thing. we also saw this in openmoko. about as many people in the us and in germany, but you saw comparably little activity from the ones in the us
<wpwrak> rjeffries: not entirely sure why either. it's not that free software or diy hardware wouldn't happen over there :-)
<rjeffries> googles "femtoduino"
<rjeffries> I see ZERO feedback on the list or in irc from USA besides my own ranting and raving. makes me wonder wtf?
<rjeffries> are all of those Bens "drawer computers" ???
<rjeffries> one thing I do not understand (among many...) supposedly there are as many as 400 Ben NN owners in USA
<rjeffries> a less elegant way to get serial functionality would be a little pcb that uses UBB as connection to Ben, then a piece of flat ribbon cable to a small pcb
<rjeffries> would heve more room that way
<rjeffries> I gave up on that first outfit, and frankly do not wish to compete with Tuxbrain or tuxbrain_away
<rjeffries> no use case? wtf??
<rjeffries> n=100 sounds about right or maybe 100 atBen and more atUSB
<rjeffries> oh really?  because?
<rjeffries> I m wondering what quantity wolfspraul may produce in first run of those two boards. likewise the uart 8:10 for Ben (which may be the bigger seller near term)
<rjeffries> fair enough
<rjeffries> as a matter of suriosity what portions of communication stack do you have so far? I assume very minimal
<rjeffries> s/owrks/works
<rjeffries> what data transfer if any owrks between atben and atUSB?
<wpwrak> rjeffries: for your .xmodmap: remove Lock    = Caps_Lock
<rjeffries> sorry of caps lock
<rjeffries> s/of/for
<rjeffries> WPWRAK YOU CAN RUN, BUT YOU CAN not HIDE. We are everywhere and nowhere.
<rjeffries> wpwrak what feedback if ANY DO YOU HAVE FROM EARLY USERS OF ATBEN ATusb ETC
<wpwrak> rjeffries: aha, that would make you a member of the secret police then :)
<rjeffries> wpwrak I read every word, every slight nuance of your screeds on mail list and here
<rjeffries> so happy i did not typo as labia
<rjeffries> so much easier in irc than say, in Libia
<rjeffries> wpwrak nxuart is cool, nxs or nxu also fine
<wpwrak> rjeffries: heh, "do everything just like in the kernel but avoid actually *using* the kernel at any price". sometimes you really have to wonder :)
<rjeffries_> s/barebones/barebox/
<rjeffries_> Barebones may be interesting if someone does a MIPS version

2011-03-06

<rjeffries> inckudes unkimited data and 300 voice minutes. naturally has camera and wifi
<rjeffries> someone will root it soon one assumes
<rjeffries> is a decent 3.2 inch Android gadget, good specs. best of all they offer a reasonable service plan for$25 a month
<rjeffries> LG Optimus V is sold by Virgin Mobile for $150 USD no contract required
<rjeffries> as a point of reference and yes I am aware, this example is not free...

2011-03-02

<rjeffries_> here is a cool little USB power supply http://jeelabs.org/2011/03/02/new-usb-power-option/
<rjeffries_> ciao
<rjeffries_> a few people here have used Lua if I recall correctly
<rjeffries_> yup
<rjeffries_> compared to programming on his Nintendo DS vs Ben NN, he will think he died and went to heaven
<rjeffries_> wolfspraul when you listed a few programming languages that are "not bad" on Ben NN for that guy, you missed Lua. ;)

2011-03-01

<rjeffries> then one slits it to the correct width and number of wires
<rjeffries> wpwrak what are specs for ribon cable that will work wrll with UBB? Part number, source? if I recall correctly the bets option is a cable with 10 wires

2011-02-28

<rjeffries> s/os/or
<rjeffries> wpwrak I did not remember your plans for an 8:10 "uart" I suggest Ben Serial os BS for short. ;)
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (list of projects) correct. uart still needs a better name ;-)
<tuxbrain_away> rjeffries: I have in mind to clone the look and feel of the caracteristic arduino env to make beguinners feel familiar with it, the pro can directly edit the make file or even piss off on Arduino API
<rjeffries> tuxbrain_away GUI would be nice, but a good design console program with that functionality would be ok/fine
<tuxbrain_away> rjeffries: after the hell of fustration I have passed (basically for my ignorance on the matter) I hope you where true, I hope in a week or so I have a easy to use enviroment (console based) with some examples to attack(sorry attract) Arduino lovers. of course if all work as expected. Once with this base we can start to think on a graphical onekeypress arduino frontend as his java big brother but thinked to fit on NN
<rjeffries> tuxbrain_away 's work to get AVR tools working on Ben NN should yied significant new interest and Ben sales
<rjeffries> end of list. ;))
<rjeffries> 4) atUSB 802.15.4 radio on USB stick for Linux PC
<rjeffries> wpwrak 3) ??? UART implemented with AVR chip, 8:10 card for Ben ???
<rjeffries> wpwrak 2) atBen 8:10 card with 802.15.4 radio and (later) 6LoWPAN protocol stack)
<rjeffries> wpwrak BEN 8:10 port UBB (no electronics, simple extension of signals so a ribbon cable can be attached)
<rjeffries> wpwrak: is the following list comprehensive

2011-02-27

<rjeffries> if/when I unplug NN from Ubuntu lappie, will it work automagically when I plug back in guess I'll just try. nope
<rjeffries> if/when I unplug NN from Ubuntu lappie, will it work automagically when I plug back in guess I'll just try
<rjeffries> sorry ineedhelp this is not the place you need good luck
<rjeffries> I'll solve NN to Internet voa Ubuntu
<rjeffries> how hard can it be
<rjeffries> well good news is Ben now talks to my Ubuntu
<rjeffries> more famous that RMS
<rjeffries> the Linux Messiah
<rjeffries> with high sales volumes a $50 end user price would make Wolfspraul a Rich man
<rjeffries> this is a plan for world domination by getting a million kids using the Ben Nanonote at the new price of $50 USD. ;)
<rjeffries> Ben can be a cheap easy little Linux system used from the laptop in schools etc. forget the angst about windows being evil
<rjeffries> wolfspraul assuming you'd like to sell 10 or 100x more Ben NN, then let's make it dead simple to connect Ben to a Windows system. then...
<rjeffries> using Ben NN via regular lappie screen and a real keyboard is a New World Order
<rjeffries> such as a restaraunt ;)
<rjeffries> well most enterprises have that many employees
<rjeffries> and they may have 3 or so "employees"
<rjeffries> good luck
<rjeffries> no qi-hardware has afaik no employees the commercial entity is sharism.cc sharism LLC
<rjeffries> what would ubuntu ipconfig look like pls
<rjeffries> ok
<rjeffries> we have a subnet mismatch
<rjeffries> on which end
<rjeffries> let me check
<rjeffries> hmmm
<rjeffries> ben address is 192.168.254.101
<rjeffries> well at least I have a nice keyboard and screen for Ben
<rjeffries> root@BenNanoNote:/# route add default gw 192.168.1.80
<rjeffries> i wonder if maybe I should use the ip address of my router instead?
<rjeffries> route: SIOCADDRT: Network is unreachable
<rjeffries> ok
<rjeffries> on ubuntu or NN ??
<rjeffries> inet addr:192.168.1.80
<rjeffries> whatever the wiki said let me check
<rjeffries> grabbing coffee
<rjeffries> and thanks for your help xMff
<rjeffries> this is not yet working hmmm
<rjeffries> what is a simple NN command to see if internet is availble
<rjeffries> on ubuntu or NN?
<rjeffries> ah the guy who had this nanonor=te already did that ok
<rjeffries> route: SIOCADDRT: File exists
<rjeffries> root@BenNanoNote:/# route add default gw 192.168.254.100
<rjeffries> what does this mean on NN
<rjeffries> i have telnet to Ben Nanonote thanks to several people
<rjeffries> thx
<rjeffries> s/waht/what interface/
<rjeffries> for setting up NAT this ubuntu lappie is using wifi so waht do I specify rather than eth0 for NAT?
<rjeffries> ok got that part done
<xMff> rjeffries: sudo mv /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf  will make the warning go away (its totally unrelated btw)
<rjeffries> gotcha
<rjeffries> ah yes
<xMff> rjeffries: its an ubuntu error
<rjeffries> but I thought I needed ip forwardinbg??
<rjeffries> not wure what it means I should do
<rjeffries> WARNING: All config files need .conf: /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base, it will be ignored in a future release.
<rjeffries> ron@ron-laptop-HP:/$ sudo modprobe iptable_nat
<rjeffries> sorry will add error message
<rjeffries> echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
<rjeffries> what does this mean
<rjeffries> do I need to reset ubuntu for this to take effect?
<rjeffries> after editing the /etc/network/interfaces file to add: iface usb0 inet manual
<rjeffries> .
<rjeffries> my near term goal is simply ssh from ubuntu to nanonote to have a human size keybaord and screen
<rjeffries> thanks I will try now
<rjeffries> that note comes from the wiki
<rjeffries> do not know what to do re this:
<rjeffries> Note - if you use Ubuntu, consider removing the default connection-manager, and replacing it with wicd. The connection manager has issues with adding & removing networking hardware, while wicd ignores usb0.
<rjeffries> thanks
<rjeffries> ssh from ubunto into Ben, I mean
<rjeffries> it needs an IP address, but I do not know the sequence of commands.
<rjeffries> maybe first, what is needed to ssh into Ben from Linux?
<rjeffries> from Ubuntu, how do I access Nanonote to read or write files, i.e. Ben as an external drive?
<rjeffries> here is an ignorant (of linux) question. My Ben is plugged in and seems to be recognized by Ubuntu
<rjeffries> oh I see windows will tell me cool
<rjeffries> ok and thanks. now to find VID and PID
<rjeffries> is the Ben NN device ID mfg ID published on wiki?
<rjeffries> well now that I tried to get NN going w/Ubuntu I ran into an error. see mailing list
<rjeffries> thanks kyak fro the hint
<kyak> well, nebajoth is the only hope to bring that article back and help rjeffries :) i'm not going back to windows to recall how i connected Ben to it
<kyak> rjeffries: you need to read instructions in thesycon's driver readme
<rjeffries> Ben as a way to create arduino/avr code and then flash the target is pretty damn BIG news,
<rjeffries> XChat looks better than Smuxi
<rjeffries> is xue project fron Andres?
<rjeffries> sounds like 6 to 9 months of effort calender time
<rjeffries> xue
<rjeffries> is xua the camera board?
<rjeffries> wolfspraul what connector does it use?
<rjeffries> how does the MM JTAG/serial board compare with other JTAG boards

2011-02-26

<wpwrak> rjeffries: (font name changes) so you reflashed ?
<rjeffries> Jay7 maybe but plugging Nanonote into Windows gives (after a whiel) a message to insert CD that came with device
<rjeffries> I wonder if thos Nokia products required a custom driver on Windows, or simply uses RNDIS
<rjeffries> interesting
<Jay7> rjeffries: there are lot of info about connecting to windows
<rjeffries> i think the ben problem is it is client
<zedstar> rjeffries: nice....been to santa barbara
<rjeffries> I live in California USA city is Arroyo Grande, about 80 miles north of Santa Barbara
<zedstar> rjeffries: im from london
<rjeffries> cool which city? I love London
<zedstar> rjeffries: uk
<rjeffries> I have written to the guy at TheSyscon.de asking him what sort of deal I might arrange to act as a reseller for Ben Nano only
<rjeffries> zedstar where are you in geographical sense
<rjeffries> Jay7 if you find it please let us know
<zedstar> rjeffries: yeh i have pondered this idea...a lot of colleges have locked down windows machines but would be nice to connect a Ben and ssh in and do a programming class using a dynamic language directly on the Ben and take home your work in your pocket
<rjeffries> Ben could e.g. be used as a little dedicated web server for local use
<rjeffries> I think schools might be interested in using Bens as small inexpensive way for peopel to learn a real linux environment
<rjeffries> and yes I know about and use VirtualBox
<rjeffries> if Ben is attached to a Windows lappie, via ssh one has a nice human interface in terms of full size keyboard and regular size scree
<rjeffries> I want to get a USB driver for Ben working on Windows (no philosphical rants required, I know everybody dislaikes the idea)
<rjeffries> anybody living near Ilmenau, Germany ??
<rjeffries> ok got the font changed they font names were different back in the Oct 2010 day
<kyak> rjeffries: should be as easy as ./reflash_ben.sh
<rjeffries> well when I read the wiki it seems there is a lot to do. I will at some pont
<rjeffries> kyak is it posssible that font is not in the October 2010 image?
<rjeffries> s/eyse/eyes
<rjeffries> thanks kyak
<rjeffries> would someone suggest a setfont command that will give me a larger font? my eyse are no longer young
<rjeffries> I am in ash right now
<rjeffries> thks dvdk your idea of a propeller based video "card" is clever
<dvdk> rjeffries: nope, no driver needed as long as you only need general purpose I/O
<rjeffries> I assume driver...
<rjeffries> wpwrak remind me, will code to communicate with UBB be in user space, or will a small driver be (also) needed?
<rjeffries> kyak seperate tab would be easy, and less work
<rjeffries> not a chance ;) I fail the Ben NN IQ test
<kyak> rjeffries: are you on the latest image already? :)
<rjeffries> kyak re proposal from jirka to mark console apps w/ small "C" letter in corner of the icon and maybe in own group. YES PLEASE!
<wolfspraul> rjeffries: Werner may remember the details of Om upgrade paths better than me, it feels like a long time ago for me now, I start to forget the details or what I remember is mostly wishful thinking.
<rjeffries> how simple did OpenMoko eventually ake teh s.w upgrade process?
<rjeffries> it is not hard stuff but is a lot of stuff
<rjeffries> but first I need to undersatdn the flash partition layout and blocks and all that and whatever
<wpwrak> rjeffries: it's basically just power up while holding the U button, then running a script :)
<rjeffries> need to keep battery charged, just in case
<rjeffries> wpwrak oh no not at all. when I figured out more or less what I need to learn I put Ben back in charge battery mode
<wpwrak> rjeffries: so you reflashed successfully ?
<rjeffries> Ben is not a mass market product. built by engineers for software geeks who enjoy challenges
<rjeffries> I did go look at instructions for reflashing and realized that wolfspraul is right (again)
<rjeffries> we are so fscked
<rjeffries> Thank God China mainly uses bicycles, right?
<rjeffries> China and Saudis are our banker. what could possibly go wrong? ;)
<rjeffries> the world economy is in such a ditch
<wpwrak> rjeffries: of course, the PIGS crisis in europa has bought the dollar something like a 5-10 years life extension :)
<wpwrak> rjeffries: you can probably lead a pretty comfty life there with your dollars. spend them while they're still worth something ;-)
<rjeffries> but when I move to Chad or Niger, things will be different.
<rjeffries> nods to wpwrak they are all in this game together
<rjeffries> I guess I need a lead case to slip my phone in while the battery is out.)
<rjeffries> indeed and they do and never EVER use any lubrication either
<rjeffries> some paranoid people (??) in USA think Google may be infiltrated or anextensu=ion of out intelklugence services CIA etc
<roh> rjeffries: its a us company so you can be sure their 'three letter services' will do what they want.
<rjeffries> sp we all agree it would seem
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (privacy) an open phone design and a reliable off switch would do that as well. we went to some length at openmoko to ensure that (although we didn't have the gsm side open)
<roh> rjeffries: i have a new (used) razr v3i now. my second one after i had a S25. its a phone. ;)
<wpwrak> rjeffries: i only use data-over-phone in emergencies when my isp is down
<rjeffries> it is the only way to disable your phone revealing where you are in geo space
<wolfspraul> rjeffries: watch out there may be secondary batteries in your thingie.
<roh> rjeffries: but only because there is no proper 'mechanical switch'
<rjeffries> and I keep using a many years old Pal Treo 700p that looks like hell but Just Works
<roh> rjeffries: that too. yes. ;)
<rjeffries> wpwrak i do not have a data plan at all
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (data plan) that's why i make a point of having phones with extremely poor or no data capabilities ;-)
<rjeffries> one good argument for removable battery roh did not mention:
<rjeffries> I am sure the CIA and FBI and other security agencies are DELIGHTED that people check in on theior mobile phone when they go to a coffee shop
<roh> rjeffries: carriers have to get that they are 'bit carriers' ;)
<rjeffries> THAT my friends is the big fraud. ;)
<rjeffries> I do not use or buy apple
<rjeffries> the real tragedy is everyonbe now thinks they must have an expenisve data plan to be a complete human being.
<roh> rjeffries: also you need to be careful with apple. they are very much 'overpresent' in visibility due to their 'buzz'
<rjeffries> but this is a boring topic/;)
<roh> rjeffries: apple doesnt. (proprietary connectors)
<rjeffries> roh that is why they let you charge from USB;)
<wolfspraul> rjeffries: yes correct, the charge is genius actually.
<rjeffries> but EVERYTHING is a design tradeoff
<rjeffries> look I like replaceable batteries
<rjeffries> and apple has been smart the charge to replace battery is not bad at all
<rjeffries> battery does not fail in 12 months
<rjeffries> roh but that was then batteries are much improved and many people love VERY skinny phones
<rjeffries> Nokia will not die,
<wpwrak> rjeffries: or transform beyond recognition :)
<rjeffries> roh you are indeed a special case. tens of millions of people have voted with thier hard earned money
<roh> rjeffries: nah. it made lots of people angry and even sue apple.
<roh> rjeffries: it also made sure i never buy one. screws are ok. no spareparts isnt.
<rjeffries> you get a thinner lighter product, and every two years you send it to a shop and they replace teh batteries
<rjeffries> roh the iPhone and iPad have alreday proven non user replaceable battery is an OK idea
<rjeffries> a $20 or$50 phone, no subsidy, is very close to reakity. maybe this year as a less capable Android phone with a not huge display wasily $75 USD no contract
<roh> rjeffries: dunno about 'that' hack. but basically 'every computer with linux, a wifi and a usb host interface' will work
<rjeffries> something similar to this hack might(??) work between Ben and ASUS Wl 520GU
<rjeffries> i don't know. tomorrow we will have a different story. that one is old news l(
<rjeffries> they==ubuntu
<rjeffries> ubunto was on the wrong side of this in my opinion. a bit greedy I'd say
<rjeffries> that is old news they caved in today
<rjeffries> wolfspraul I think Banshee is much ado about not very much. all's well that ends well
<rjeffries> people from europe or US who live in another country
<rjeffries> are there many ex=pats where you live now?
<rjeffries> I also have "visited" Vietnam, but not as a tourist if you get my drift
<rjeffries> I have been to Taiwan once or twice on business, also Hong Kong, but have not seen the mainland. I want to one day.
<rjeffries> cool beans
<rjeffries> so was openmoko team geographically distributed I assume
<rjeffries> I vote Brazil. they have  acool guy running the place
<wolfspraul> rjeffries: when I saw China I mean a mix of Taiwan, Hong Kong, mainland China. I moved here before Openmoko, in early 2007.
<rjeffries> wolfspraul may I ask how long you have lived in China? I assume since OpenMoko took a dive?
<wpwrak> rjeffries: hmm, i have a toaster oven that done some (really bad) reflow ...
<rjeffries> you need to hack a Ben as a controller
<wpwrak> rjeffries: they don't like smelly men :)
<rjeffries> wolfspraul: I highly recommend wpwrak ;s apartment as a reflow vendor
<rjeffries> wpwrak but you have such beautiful woemen, who cares about the plumbing?
<rjeffries> I once flew in a small plane from Cancun to Cozomel. in flight I noticed the door was tied partially open.
<rjeffries> what about bottled water? that could work, no? ;)
<rjeffries> we landed safely
<rjeffries> water? i  will take tablets. ;)
<wpwrak> rjeffries: do you have tablets that produce humidity when you chew them dry ? :)
<wpwrak> rjeffries: you mean  air traffic control ? :)
<rjeffries> how is their airport?
<wpwrak> rjeffries: broadband may be great. i would worry more about "old" infrastructure. water, electricity, ...
<rjeffries> think how cheap I could live in Chad. I wonder if they have good broadband? that's my only requirement
<rjeffries> molded
<rjeffries> and designing tools for injection modled parts
<wolfspraul> rjeffries: nah, we are not stupid. it's not the flintstones here.
<rjeffries> I am looking at Chad and Niger, hard call choosing between them. both are big opportunities
<wpwrak> rjeffries: you have to pick your priorities :)
<wolfspraul> rjeffries: when can I welcome you as my new neighbor in Beijing?
<rjeffries> wolfspraul selecting location based on quality of wine and appearance and plentitude of beautiful women seems questionable yo me
<wpwrak> rjeffries: also, the government is unlikely to mess with you, because their focus is on milking agricultural exports. so you're not on their radar.
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (argentina) oh, if you do all the stuff needed to become a commercial importer/exporter, then you enjoy a lot more flexibility
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (libya) you should see their southern neighbours ;-)
<rjeffries> wpwrak I guess we will not select Argentina as the next sharism.cc world HQ
<rjeffries> need to check google maps;)
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (enforcement) sometimes they just shrug simple things through, even if they're not 100% according to the rules. but you never know.