03:35 <marcan> jn__: you don't have to censor out my name. I mute my speakers when I go to sleep, IRC mentions do not wake me up.

03:51 <JTL> good to know :p

03:52 <JTL> (some people get REALLY annoyed when you ping them when their asleep because they don't mute, etc)

03:55 <jn__> alright

03:58 <marcan> re the devicetree, facts are not copyrightable

03:58 <marcan> and the devicetree is a collection of facts (for the most part)

03:58 <marcan> so it's perfectly fine to take device information from the macos devicetree and craft a linux devicetree based on the same info

03:59 <marcan> a devicetree isn't a computer program

03:59 <davidrysk[m]> especially if it doesn't keep the same structure, sequence, and organization as the original.

04:00 <marcan> that whole story was about computer programs; this isn't even a program

04:01 <Shiz> oh yeah, figured I should also post it here for the relevant folks then

04:01 <Shiz> https://github.com/Shizmob/img4 some img4 & apple devicetree dump tools

05:34 <tarzeau> marcan: copyright and not, just being curious what your point is on vector/bitmap fonts and pantone colors (the names) in that matter

06:12 <marcan> tarzeau: somewhat OT, but: fonts vary by jurisdiction, e.g. in the US and Japan typefaces are not copyrightable but fonts are; however in some European countries typefaces are copyrightable (10 years or so IIRC?). IANAL so I don't know about automated bitmap conversion, but in principle manually re-drawing a typeface is perfectly legal in the US and Japan and certain other countries.

06:15 <marcan> as for Pantone... that sounds like a company trying to re-invent copyright law to me, and I wouldn't bet on them winning over certain usages of their colors if it went to court, but I also wouldn't risk it. the name/color association might be copyrightable, I bet the number/color mapping isn't, but that's just a guess and IANAL

06:16 <marcan> FWIW the Asahi Linux logo uses a font that comes with macOS, where as I understand it distributing just a subset of outlines in vector form is allowed, and I also got explicit permission to use it from the designer

06:16 <marcan> (we can't distribute the font file though, but that's not necessary; I don't intend to use that font anywhere else, just the logotype)

06:18 <marcan> either way, in general, copyright law is way, way behind current technology, and the world runs on guesswork, intent, and the "spirit of the thing" more than actual on-the-books law

06:19 <marcan> the world would grind to a halt if everyone tried to follow copyright law to the letter and avoid anything that could even remotely be deemed infringement

06:20 <marcan> I think the copyright policy I wrote for Asahi Linux strikes a decent balance between not caring at all and "cleanroom all the things", which should at least show those who are concerned about this subject that we care and aren't going to do anything dumb

06:20 <marcan> by the way, I added a section to it, everyone should review it at https://alx.sh/re - in particular, no using/reversing/referencing leaked or private materials

06:20 <marcan> (last section)

06:33 <Shiz> lgtm

06:33 <rwhitby> ++

07:41 <marcan> oh, the sandcastle APFS thing is just https://github.com/linux-apfs/linux-apfs/ - so not actually corellium

07:42 <marcan> (was hard to know because they stupidly squashed their entire changeset into one commit - hi guys you're doing the same nonsense all the Android vendor kernels do)