sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
Noldorin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
luke-jr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
PRab has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Aranjedeath has quit [Quit: Three sheets to the wind]
yoleaux has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
rmwb_ has quit []
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Murch has quit [Quit: Snoozing.]
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Ylbam has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dabura667 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher has quit [Quit: Leaving]
rmwb_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Cory has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Cory has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
anon616 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
anon616 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
_Iriez is now known as Iriez
anon616 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
anon616 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
anon616 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rmwb_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pro has quit [Quit: Leaving]
AaronvanW has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
yoleaux has joined #bitcoin-wizards
thrmo_ has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007]
chjj has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
chjj has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
chjj has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
chjj has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Noldorin has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
anon616 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
anon616 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
licnep has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
dnaleor has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Alina-malina has quit [Changing host]
Alina-malina has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
luke-jr has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
legogris has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
legogris has joined #bitcoin-wizards
[7] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheSeven has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
meshcollider has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Belkaar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Belkaar has quit [Changing host]
rmwb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheSeven has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
TheSeven has joined #bitcoin-wizards
meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
chjj has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
d9b4bef9 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
d9b4bef9 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
JackH has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
momentropist has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
momentropist has joined #bitcoin-wizards
arubi has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
licnep has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
coinsmurf has joined #bitcoin-wizards
packetsmurf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
momentropist has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
momentropist has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
MaxSan has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
daszorz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
chjj has joined #bitcoin-wizards
chjj has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
BashCo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
vicenteH has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
meshcollider has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-wizards
daszorz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
dnaleor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Anduck_ is now known as Anduck
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
packetsmurf has joined #bitcoin-wizards
coinsmurf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
d9b4bef9 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
d9b4bef9 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
daszorz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Aaronvan_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Aaronvan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards
alferz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
thrmo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
JackH has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
BashCo_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
intcat has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Aaronvan_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
thrmo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
rockhouse has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rockhouse has joined #bitcoin-wizards
newbold has quit [Quit: leaving]
Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW
pro has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
cluckj has quit [Quit: Leaving]
dabura667 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
afk11 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Piper-Off has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
kewde[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Piper-Off has joined #bitcoin-wizards
josephpoon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sn0wmonster has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
bjorn[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
augoeides[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
herzmeister[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Jeremy_Rand[m] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sdaftuar has joined #bitcoin-wizards
josephpoon has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
coinsmurf has joined #bitcoin-wizards
packetsmurf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
bjorn[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
morcos has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ryanofsky_ is now known as ryanofsky
sn0wmonster has joined #bitcoin-wizards
morcos has quit [Quit: leaving]
luke-jr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
morcos has joined #bitcoin-wizards
airbreather has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
herzmeister[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
augoeides[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kewde[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Jeremy_Rand[m] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
airbreather has joined #bitcoin-wizards
airbreather has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
MaxSan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Aaronvan_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
pro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
pro has joined #bitcoin-wizards
BashCo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
BashCo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dnaleor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Murch has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MaxSan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
rockhouse has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
daszorz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
cluckj has joined #bitcoin-wizards
iddo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
GAit has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
GAit has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
arubi has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has quit [Quit: laurentmt]
Giszmo has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
meshcollider has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
luke-jr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has quit [Quit: laurentmt]
packetsmurf has joined #bitcoin-wizards
coinsmurf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
rockhouse has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
luke-jr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rockhouse has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
luke-jr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Giszmo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Noldorin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dnaleor has quit [Quit: Leaving]
vicenteH has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rockhouse has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rockhouse has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
abpa has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has quit [Quit: laurentmt]
morcos has quit [Quit: leaving]
morcos has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Noldorin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
morcos has quit [Client Quit]
morcos has joined #bitcoin-wizards
afk11 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
afk11 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rockhouse has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rockhouse has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
rockhouse has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Terr has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Noldorin has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
daszorz has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MaxSan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Chris_Stewart_5 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
Chris_Stewart_5 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
coinsmurf has joined #bitcoin-wizards
packetsmurf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
anon616 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
anon616 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
CubicEarth has quit []
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
RubenSomsen has joined #bitcoin-wizards
meshcollider has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rmwb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
RubenSomsen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
vicenteH has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
packetsmurf has joined #bitcoin-wizards
coinsmurf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Aaronvan_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
AaronvanW has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
tromp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
daszorz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
tromp has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MaxSan has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
psztorc has joined #bitcoin-wizards
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<Chris_Stewart_5>
Has there been any discussion around creating an op code that makes sure a transaction is included in the blockchain before block height n else the tx is invalid
<betawaffle>
i had asked about that, and people had good reasons not to support that
MaxSan has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
<sipa>
generally the principle is that a valid transaction can never be invalidated
<Chris_Stewart_5>
Can you remember any of them?
<betawaffle>
^^
<sipa>
there are a few reasons for that
<sipa>
1) a practical one: it would require re-evaluating the entire mempool's scripts after every block
<Chris_Stewart_5>
sipa: In the eyes of Script right? Obviously that doesn't apply at the tx level, i.e. double spends
<sipa>
2) fungibility: accepting a transaction that is close to expiring should make your wallet extra cautious about spending, as a reorg - even without any malicious intent - may invalidate every transaction that depends on it
<gmaxwell>
Chris_Stewart_5: it means that no innocent reorg (from a block race) will forever invalidate any transactions that were previously valid.
<sipa>
Chris_Stewart_5: right, but a double spend is easy to evaluate... you only need to look at transactions that affect the same inputs
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<sipa>
Chris_Stewart_5: if it's a script opcode, you have no choice but to completely reevaluate all scripts
MaxSan has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
<sipa>
if there was something like nLockTime for expiration (and perhaps an opcode to observe that nExpire transaction flag), that problem wouldn't exist
<sipa>
but the fungibility argument remains
<kanzure>
wasn't this the one with reorg problems
<kanzure>
ah someone mentioned as much. fine.
<kanzure>
known defense is to only allow blockhashes that are super old
<sipa>
the nLockTime/OP_CLTV and nSequence/OP_CSV was specifically used to avoid the need for re-evaluation
MaxSan has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<sipa>
as opposed to opcodes that can directly observe the time, they can only observe the transaction itself, so they're either valid or invalid
<sipa>
without a time dependency
<Chris_Stewart_5>
interesting, so '>' is the only comparison you can make without re-evaluating right?
MaxSan has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
<Chris_Stewart_5>
maybe '!='?
<Chris_Stewart_5>
but I don't know what use that would have..