meowrobot changed the topic of #elliottcable to: Your topic makes my IRC client cry. 𝕯𝖊𝖓-𝖔𝖋-𝕯𝖊𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖒𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖉-𝕯𝖆𝖒𝖘𝖊𝖑𝖘 || #ELLIOTTCABLE is not about ELLIOTTC [string lost in sudden transmission termination]
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
love meeeeeee
<meowrobot>
ur loved
* ELLIOTTCABLE
hugs meowrobot
* meowrobot
hugs ELLIOTTCABLE
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<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i haven't seen another human since returning to chicago ahhhhhhh
<meowrobot>
:o
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wannnt
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
SNUUUGLES
* ELLIOTTCABLE
hulk rage
<meowrobot>
tomorrow i get to see humans about my hair
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ooo I need that too
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
send me your hair-humans
<meowrobot>
do you live in nyc? :p
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
use fedex
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
pretty sure fedex does humans?
<meowrobot>
ha
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if the hair-humans resist tell them I have a cute dog
<meowrobot>
:>
* ELLIOTTCABLE
shares his 3 Musketeers w/ meowrobot
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
wat doen, entertain me!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
fix my terrible graph-walking library for me
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i made a walk() function so complicated that it behooved me to extract it into a library
<meowrobot>
aaaahhh i have no idea
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
whathuh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I somehow thought you were a js
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
hm
<meowrobot>
nope, i've been more studying asm/c lately
<meowrobot>
i've been MEANING to get into python but i keep pushing it back lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ew
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ruby <'3
<meowrobot>
i thought of ruby too
<meowrobot>
but i wasn't really sure
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
js is the future none of us chose, but is the future we all deserve
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
:P
<meowrobot>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ruby ~== python tbh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like, choose Python if you're doing anything at all mathematical or scientific
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
(not 'cuz it's better, just because it's prevalent in those industries)
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
choose Ruby if you're doing anything at all web-related,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if *neither*, then I'd advise Ruby, because I personally find it to be beautiful
<meowrobot>
hm
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but like that's the only way it's *better* — subjective beauty
<meowrobot>
i'll probably end up doing both
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
no definitely not 100%
<meowrobot>
people tell me i should be a polyglot
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ruby and python are like tennis and racquetball
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
learning both will make you terrible at both. they're too similar; not to mention they fill almost precisely the same Tool Niche
<meowrobot>
lol
<meowrobot>
the thing is though neither specialization is really what i'll end up doing i think :v
<meowrobot>
hence why i started with asm/c
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
time you spend working on projects in one, is time you will definitely not be spending working on those same projects in the other; which means you're splitting your “applicable-to-that-tool-niche” project-time between two different things instead of focusing it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so like, I'm an ancient and outspoken advocate of LEARN U A MENY PROGRAMMEN LANGIEGNES!!!1!
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I'd definitely advise a ‘one per niche’ approach: Don't learn both Common Lisp *and* Racket *and* R5RS, if none of them are you going to be your primary area of industry ... choose one of Erlang or Scala ... choose one of Ruby or Python or Perl ...
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
another way to look at it: time spent learning Ruby when you already know Python, is time you could *instead* be learning Racket, or an ML, or ...
<meowrobot>
oh god i'll never touch perl
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
the only three languages that *absolutely every programmer* should learn, are ISO C, JavaScript, “lisp”
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
that last one being still a “choose one.” situation, lol
<meowrobot>
how come lisp?
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
rite of passage. opening of your mind. beauty. being able to communicate about some involved topics with Any Programmer Ever.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
same argument could possibly be made of Haskell, nowadays; or at least *a* Very Functional Language
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
although I personally resist that -_-
<meowrobot>
hmm
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if you're looking to learn languages, I can easily give you a beneficial course-of-study to follow :P
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
~languagenut~
<meowrobot>
nice :o
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
if all you know is (maybe Java from school), C, and ‘some assembler’, you should almost certainly dive head-first into *thoroughly* learning at least one shell, first
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
because that simply makes you a computer superuser;
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and follow that up with a Theory Language: Haskell or Lisp, will break up some of the assumptions about programming that Java, C, and any-given-sh will almost certainly have left you cluttered up with
<meowrobot>
i'm fairly into c and assembly, mostly x86 asm because that's the most i read other people's code of lol
<meowrobot>
i do want to break into arm at one point
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I know a little x86, but absolutely no ARM
<meowrobot>
there are only like two people i know of in the osdev channel who write arm regularly
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
y u build os
<meowrobot>
i'm not
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
well, then again, I build programming languages, so who am i to judge -_-
<meowrobot>
but i learn from practical example
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
struggle to* build programming languages
<meowrobot>
heh
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
fail at* building programming languages
<meowrobot>
i'm honestly more of a practical programmer, i don't really see myself learning something like haskell or lisp for the sake of it
<meowrobot>
whereas i'm learning c and asm languages because you can get into the deep low level from them
<meowrobot>
python or ruby i want to learn for more higher-level constructs where i wouldn't need to make something straight out of c or so
<meowrobot>
oh! c# also. for the inevitable days i will be game programming.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like,
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
what ‘deep low level’ things are you expecting to do, that you think you need to write any raw assembler for?
<meowrobot>
microcontrollers etc
<meowrobot>
or fiddling with an sbc like the pi
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
because, frankly, short of *some* (not even all) OS code, no human beats out compilers, nowadays
<meowrobot>
though...probably not the pi, i've read it has horrors
<meowrobot>
the asm is more for debugging than hand coding it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
and ISO C is an important learning experience, but like, for precisely the same reasons as a lisp and Haskell: teach you about a concept. not because it's a practical everyday programming language.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
there's a reason people left C for C++ in droves, and ditto C++ for Rust or Go or whatever nowadays.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
oh, lord, embedded. well, good luck. P_P
<meowrobot>
:3
<meowrobot>
i heard rust is rather good
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
nonetheless: Lisp and Haskell are definitely not ivory-tower experiences
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
like they will literally make you a literal better programmer, literally todays shrug
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I keep getting mixed signals on Rust
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
all the general scuttlebutt (and my intuition) is YAY
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but I have several close friends / people I respect who are like NOPE
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
so. idk.
<meowrobot>
ahh
<meowrobot>
one person in osdev is making his os in rust and he seems to like it
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ballsy
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's v. young still for such a large project
<meowrobot>
:o
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
although Servo *is* in Rust, and they seem to be doing okay nowadays
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I hear earlier on though it was a fucking struggle — much of the time, Servo work would *drive* the advancement of Rust
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
they simply needed things that didn't exist yet, or the Rust team would want to change directions out from under them and they were like ‘plz nope, we need this feature to remain for a couple years while we figure out alternatives’
<meowrobot>
ah, i'd not heard of servo before
<meowrobot>
lol
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
idk I don't care about the project, just that it's 1. Very Big / Ambitious, and 2. In Rust
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
it's a browser engine? supposed to be slapped up alongside SpiderMonkey to replace the guts of FireFox
<meowrobot>
that does sound ambitious
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
but be Secure™ and Stable™ b/cuz it's Rust, and a clean-room implementation by spec ... instead of a rickety third-cousin-marrying C++ impl that's evolved organically over several decades
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
I think it was unbelievably ambitious a few years ago — but they seem to have mostly pulled it off
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
i.e. they still exist lol
<meowrobot>
true
<meowrobot>
it's mostly the security stuff i'm worried about than stability
<meowrobot>
on the modern web security is so paramount
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
yep.
<ELLIOTTCABLE>
ahhhhhh this algorithm is a fucking pain to debug
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