<AneoX>
any ideas? please, help( a13 boots, a20 no. tried on several boards
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<wens>
problem is pretty much no one has a board with the earlier socs and emmc
<AneoX>
my board has it. But i desolder nand from marsboardA20(has pads for emmc and nand, but dont have external pullups on data lines, easy to add) and cubieboard2(easy to solder on sd2 slot pads) and solder wires to emmc breadboard, for tests
<wens>
my point is normal people dont do these modifications
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<tkaiser>
So all we have regarding H5 now is... nothing? Just the assumption that it might be sun50i2w and that the Tinalinux BSP drop might contain some working code.
<beeble>
ddr3 8Gb chips are a more then double the price of 4Gb ones and a lot less common. so with only 2 landing positions i would assume they will not go into a 2GB production
<beeble>
tkaiser: i was just looking at the aliexpress storepage you posted before
<apritzel>
this IC placement looks really disturbing ...
<KotCzarny>
beeble: but there are no 3gb allwinner boards, so anyone actually doing one could take the advantage
<tkaiser>
apritzel: I believe it's to have some room for eMMC when 'OPi PC 2 Plus' (haha) will be released and to maintain dimensions and connector positions exactly the same as with OPi PC and PC Plus now.
<apritzel>
or it's auto routing gone wild
<beeble>
KotCzarny: doing 3gb is hard wihtout just throwing 1gb away :)
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Are you aware of 6Gb or 12Gb DDR3 modules?
<beeble>
apritzel: no, its just so that they can paste the layout into the given dimensions
<KotCzarny>
seriously, they should just make the addons (memory, ports, wifi, etc) as a plugin modules and continue pc way
<apritzel>
I think you can have exactly 3GB (TLLim hinted at that once)
<tkaiser>
I send people asking for more than 1 GB DRAM always to http://www.linuxatemyram.com -- also sufficient.
<apritzel>
it's just that those chips have a completely different pinout (so require a new PCB design) and are much less common
<beeble>
apritzel: the placement matches exactly the room it would require for the standard ddr routing. also squeezing the realtek chip exactly in the room left. the pick and place machine doesn't care about rotation
<apritzel>
beeble: yeah, I know, it's still disturbing to the eye ;-)
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser: thinking of doing some vm or desktop machine requires as much ram as possible
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<apritzel>
KotCzarny: I agree, for my work horse desktop I'd never go below 16GB
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: VMs with tablet or TV box SoCs? Seriously? And this 'desktop machine' thing is just a joke, isn't it?
<KotCzarny>
yeah, just a dream of being able to replace x86 laptop one day
<KotCzarny>
also, there are people that are packing a20 into laptop form factor already, tell eoma68 they are a joke ;)
<apritzel>
KotCzarny: I wouldn't count on Allwinner SoCs for this, though ;-)
<beeble>
why replace something that is working so well with drivers that are working and power managment that is realy good?
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<KotCzarny>
with working display/de(en)coder drivers it would be already possible
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<KotCzarny>
because smartphones do the desktopish tasks since few years
<beeble>
it would still be a pain to use it as a everyday desktop
<agraf>
beeble: so when did you stop to be a dreamer? :)
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<agraf>
beeble: btw, remember how we talked about new thunderx servers for obs?
<ssvb>
tkaiser: how can I get it asap? should I order this board now from aliexpress?
<KotCzarny>
people were using i386s as a desktop machines, right?
<KotCzarny>
it's just a matter of working drivers and lean software
<beeble>
agraf: since i started developing embedded hardware 10+ years ago :)
<beeble>
agraf: cool
<agraf>
(and 30% idle .. hmm)
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<beeble>
KotCzarny: of corse it works. but you are used to other stuff then 10 years ago
<KotCzarny>
but its still possible, just not the bloated software
<beeble>
just look at your browser cpu and ram usage
<tkaiser>
ssvb: I told Igor yesterday to add you, no answer usually means '[x] done'. I'll ask again.
<KotCzarny>
yup, i know, we are spoiled
<KotCzarny>
hd resolutions everywhere ;)
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Can you tell me something even more bloated than 'the average web site in 2016'?
<beeble>
oh ranting does make hungry. i will take a lunch break :)
<KotCzarny>
web can be debloated, either by personal proxy (blocking/converting), no-js addon, or choosing lighter equivalents
<apritzel>
agraf: now the reason for ARM naming it aarch64 is obvious: it's always first in alphabetical ordering ;-)
<agraf>
apritzel: yeah ;) smart move
<agraf>
apritzel: same reason "Aachen" didn't want to have the "Bad" in its name, even though it was eligible
<agraf>
(random history facts...)
<apritzel>
;-)
<tkaiser>
ssvb: Igor shared your address details with Steven and you get a dev sample directly (most probably OPi Zero too)
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<NiteHawk>
i'd like to quickly pick your brains. what cross-compilers/-toolchains would we want to try for building ARM code (in sunxi-tools), in order from "generic" to "specific"? - my current order would be: arm-none-eabi-gcc arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc armv7a-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi-gcc aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu-gcc
<apritzel>
NiteHawk: why aarch64 in there? it can't generate ARM code, which is all we need in the sunxi-tools context, right?
<KotCzarny>
is hardfloat a requirement?
<NiteHawk>
hmm... valid point. i thought it would be useful, as someone reported an issue with building "target-tools" on aarch64, but it probably isn't actually useful
<NiteHawk>
KotCzarny: no, good point. we don't use fp in our routines, so arm-linux-gnueabi should probably also be on that list (before the "hf" one)
<oliv3r>
ssvb: is it possible that lima-memtester can cause a failure which causes a reboot?
<oliv3r>
i guess it could in theory
<oliv3r>
didn't think it was super likley
<KotCzarny>
oliv3r: only if watchdog is used, i guess
<ssvb>
oliv3r: yes, it can, but just a deadlock is more likely
<KotCzarny>
or some power draw over limit
<ssvb>
oliv3r: sometimes you can get kernel panic, and the kernel might be configured to reboot automatically
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<ssvb>
tkaiser: Okay, thanks. Though I don't think that I'm really interested in OPi Zero
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<tkaiser>
ssvb: I hope Xunlong sends out Zeros with SPI flash populated so maybe just another device to play with? Anyway: declared value remains below EU VAT redempt treshold so it shouldn't matter.
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<ssvb>
tkaiser: well, but what if it gets stopped at the customs nevertheless and I would need to provide a proof?
<KotCzarny>
send them aliexpress printout?
<ssvb>
and for example, I don't quite understand why some aliexpress sellers declare 5$ price for something that really costs 10$, this is really annoying
<KotCzarny>
and promo has ended
<KotCzarny>
tell them you bought it on a promo
<KotCzarny>
or with some promo points
<ssvb>
KotCzarny: yeah, and the aliexpress printout would show that opi pc 2 + opi zero bundled in one parcel don't match the declared value and exceed the VAT threshold
<ssvb>
why do I even need to lie?
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<KotCzarny>
because declared value might not match and because we dont live in a perfect world
<KotCzarny>
breakfast time
<oliv3r>
ssvb: ah right of course, so its likely it froze
<tkaiser>
ssvb: no need to lie, the stuff will be sent out as 'commercial sample' or something like that with an invoice claiming the value of the items. Stuff like that always gets through here without problems.
<oliv3r>
ssvb: strange however that it can freeze after running for 14 hours, reboot, and then run for 12 more hours
<oliv3r>
ssvb: anyway, i'm getting some interesting results
<oliv3r>
if the ambient temperature is even a little above 70 degrees, it goes to hell quite easily
<oliv3r>
i'm at 73.5 and it keeps crashing now even with 1 lower setting
<KotCzarny>
70C is unreasonable, and close to the borders even for industrial grade electronics
<oliv3r>
70C is the max. ambient temperature in the datasheet
<oliv3r>
for non industrial use
<oliv3r>
so, that's my maximum :)
<KotCzarny>
remember about caps and other parts
<oliv3r>
so i'm letting it cool off a little
<oliv3r>
but getting it to 70 is hard :p hence 73
<KotCzarny>
they could fail too, not only soc
<KotCzarny>
what are operating temps for axp209?
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<KotCzarny>
-40..130C
<KotCzarny>
not bad
<KotCzarny>
:)
<KotCzarny>
though those are 'absolute maximums'
<KotCzarny>
also, acin is 3.8..6.3V
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<miasma>
ssvb: shouldn't be a problem usually. i got two opi pcs without paying vat
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<miasma>
so what makes a board a sunxi board? i was just thinking if I add more boards to the wiki's table, which boards are sunxi branded
<miasma>
all allwinner based?
<KotCzarny>
yup
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<KotCzarny>
allwinner soc
<miasma>
ok so i'll add opi pc 2 and zero
<wens>
hehe, a bit late to be asking this?
<miasma>
i thought it was obvious, never read it anywhere
<miasma>
just wanted to make sure
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<tkaiser>
miasma: Schematics and schanetics for both boards are already uploaded :)
<tkaiser>
Would be great to have 13 and 26 pin headers as tables in the wiki
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<miasma>
tkaiser: yea i have to think about it. you mean on the board page?
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser, i think they are already there, in generic soc pages
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<miasma>
but aren't the pins board specific?
<KotCzarny>
depends
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: Nope, minimal changes :( All H3 Orange Pi boards with 40 pin headers have same config, Zero is different, NanoPis are different, BPi M2+ is different
<KotCzarny>
many boards tend to stick to compatibility
<miasma>
i could add separate tables as a subsection on the board page and link to that from the board table
<miasma>
i suspect some other boards might also have differences. e.g. the sinovoip clone for banana pro has two pins mixed up
<tkaiser>
miasma: They're the worst since they provide even wrong 'hardware descriptions' (fex file, DT) for their own hardware.
<tkaiser>
The various FriendlyARM H3 devices are documented well in their own wiki
<miasma>
i accidently bought one. it was quite cheap. now it reboots randomly
<KotCzarny>
miasma, did you check power source quality and temperature?
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<KotCzarny>
s/temperature/core voltages/
<KotCzarny>
those are two main reasons for lockups
<KotCzarny>
and third being too high dram speed
<miasma>
KotCzarny: i'll need to retest that board some time. yea i could try a lower ram speed
<miasma>
I guess these boards are going to have lpddr4 memory sometime soon ? samsung already has 8 GB chips iirc
<miasma>
KotCzarny: i couldn't figure out which kernel module enables temperature monitoring on a20/banana pro
<miasma>
would it work via lmsensors?
<KotCzarny>
on mainline? you need to patch it
<miasma>
oh
<KotCzarny>
ahm, temperature, no, it should be already there
<miasma>
i had my own kernel so i didn't want to enable all temp drivers
<KotCzarny>
for voltages/amperages you have to patch it
<KotCzarny>
want my bpi-r1 .config?
<miasma>
i can take a look
<ssvb>
tkaiser: the pins on the expansion header can't be exactly the same, because in Orange Pi PC 2 the SPI0 pins are now used by the on-board SPI flash
<miasma>
funny thing, I (and some other guy) tried to ask the UP board vendor about the maximum power draw per gpio pins. i think they said that there's this nda so they can't show the schematics but they can answer single requests
<nove>
mripard: i am sorry to tell but this is not right, and you know it
<KotCzarny>
lol
<KotCzarny>
super secret board designs
<miasma>
for example i wanted to power a 120mm fan from the gpio pins. they didn't want to tell how much power i can draw from GND--5V
<nove>
mripard: all the information to have usable h264 and jpeg encoding, already exists from january of 2014, as everyone can see from here http://linux-sunxi.org/CedarX/Reverse_Engineering with register information added in the wiki at the same time
<nove>
mripard: so i don't see what do you aim by saying "Encoding is not really understood right now"
<miasma>
tkaiser: editing tables with mediawiki is such a pita. maybe there's some import/export feature :P
<mripard>
nove: maybe it's just a misunderstanding, but on h264 it really doesn't look like it's fully understood.
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<nove>
mripard: because it misses B frames? we don't even know if the hardware really supports this, as any allwinner documentation is to be trusted
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<mripard>
then sorry, it was a misunderstanding
<nove>
mripard: but still with I and P frames in more that enough to have usable encoding, and this doesn't deseres the statement of "Encoding is not really understood right now"
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<nove>
mripard: is the chicken and the egg problem, nothing will be done if "everyone" keeps putting down the work of others, because is not 100% perfect
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<nove>
if B-frames are wished, or any other feature "still not understood" is only need to ask, and given a valid reason for why the work should be done
<nove>
and if that reason is to have support in mainline, then it will be more than valid
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<mripard>
nove: I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure I never put down any of the cedrus work.
<mripard>
you all did an awesome work
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<miasma>
tkaiser: um is the SATA* text only reserved for crappy usb->sata adapters in the board table?
<miasma>
" SATA marked with * means crappy usb-to-sata converter which will result in crappy performance (~15-20MB/s, less if usb is used at the same time) "
<miasma>
i've got more than 30 MB/s with an external $2 usb-sata adapter so maybe there should be some other text for non-crap models :)
<KotCzarny>
miasma: well, you can make it [1] and add [2] if you need more comments
<miasma>
right
<nove>
mripard: finished seeing the video, and what you said matches the text, and you know who we are and could simply ask us first
<KotCzarny>
but external usb adapters arent really fitting to that page
<nove>
mripard: but ok
<KotCzarny>
its about what comes with boards
<KotCzarny>
and gl830 is the thing that gets soldered on (for some reason)
<miasma>
KotCzarny: my point was, if the board comes with a good usb-sata bridge onboard, there's no category for that. there's only native sata and crappy usb/sata :D
<KotCzarny>
yup, because there are no such cases yet
<miasma>
hm i see
<miasma>
what if I change the meaning of SATA* so that it's a usb-sata bridge and add [1] for those with sub-optimal performance. this way the board would also support the good chips with 35+ MB/s of bandwidth. if there ever will be those
<KotCzarny>
we will see when we get at least one board
<miasma>
:)
<KotCzarny>
imo for now its enough for people to know they are getting crap sata performance
<miasma>
yea
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<KotCzarny>
and if we get new usb-sata chip, we have yet to see if its not crap
<KotCzarny>
tkaiser: how about hinting steven from xunlong to find good uas chip?
<KotCzarny>
even better, 2 of them ;)
<KotCzarny>
i mean including 2 sata ports
<miasma>
it shouldn't be too hard because i get 37 MB/s from an external usb-sata adapter which only costs $2
<KotCzarny>
2$ is ~10% of the price of many boards
<miasma>
yea with it comes with tons of plastic, two leds and the cables
<miasma>
i suppose the chip is a lot cheaper. and this is the end user price
<beeble>
miasma: whats inside jmicro?
<beeble>
jmicron
<miasma>
14cd:6116 Super Top M6116 SATA Bridge
<miasma>
it works for me, but some have had issues with it
<KotCzarny>
miasma: i think its possible to reach ~40MB/s with good uasp chip
<miasma>
probably. also that was read speed. i haven't written anything with it :)
<tkaiser>
KotCzarny: I would prefer to see a R40 board from Xunlong instead of USB-to-SATA
<tkaiser>
But according to rumours he's working on a non-sunxi board with native SATA and IIRC also PCIe
<KotCzarny>
tkasier, nice, marvel?
<tkaiser>
No idea, maybe MediaTek, maybe RealTek
<KotCzarny>
kernel 4.1.2 seems old, care to retest?
<miasma>
do you know if it's ok to copy the gpio pin data from vendor's diagrams into a table or are there some copyright issues
<KotCzarny>
miasma: definitely not from anything sinovoip related ;)
<KotCzarny>
and if you do, add a note of the source
<KotCzarny>
and its not about copyright but reliability
<tkaiser>
miasma: For FA boards I would simply put a link to their Wiki (since with NanoPI NEO for example they exchanged pinout between PCB rev 1.0 und later)
<KotCzarny>
and afaik such kind if information is hardly copyrighted, what next nda for usb4 ?
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<nove>
and speaking again of the "no B frames" that colorful table is split in two sides the "no B frames" is at the software side, it is the simple PoC software that doesn't implement this feature
<nove>
because it requires (if i remember correctly) a more complex buffer handling (i am not the right person to talk about this), but we know how the hardware works
<nove>
yes, maybe should be two separated tables to make very clear
<KotCzarny>
make poc part completely out into separate paragraph
<KotCzarny>
or even better subpage?
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<nove>
yes something like that
<nove>
(more things to do when there is the time, which is not today)
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<nove>
and the "baseline profile only" is a hardware limitation, (not knowledge)
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<nove>
in newer versions of the video engine, there are "hits" that there is support for high profile, but there isn't anything confirmed, that is why the red
<nove>
this "hits" are to not be much trusted, as there is also "hits" for vp8 encoding, which i don't believe until i see for myself the hardware doing it
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<majosa>
Eh, I didn't want highlight that NES mini is a closed platform but highlight that is a board with an Allwinner R16 with 256Mb of RAM and 512Mb of FLASH
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<|Jeroen|>
would be nice it there is a 10$ clone of that box :p
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<fire219_>
oh, the nes mini is an AW board? cool
<fire219_>
256MB is obviously less than cool, but a hell of a lot more than an NES had ;)
<diego71>
KotCzarny: enough for an emulator ...
<KotCzarny>
im just having fun of Mb vs MB (obvious typo)
<fire219_>
at least it's not 256mb :)
<|Jeroen|>
yeah loads :p
<fire219_>
also why is there a _ after my name... probably happened when i set up znc...
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<AneoX>
apritzel Hi! I have found a problem in u-boot with A20 emmc boot, it works. But now i have a problem with sunxi kernel. It doesnt init emmc on sdc0 lines, only sdc2. Looks like this is hardcoded somewhere, as you said. Do you find a solution?
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<ericxdu_>
majosa: that's an interesting pedigree re: NES mini. Makes me wondes what other cheap consoles are made of
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<apritzel>
AneoX: so what was the problem in U-Boot?
<apritzel>
and which kernel is this exactly? 3.4.something?
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