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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<SaganMan>
Morning beach!!
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<phoe>
morning
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<beach>
Hey phoe. I don't see you here very often these days.
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* loke`
realised that I just confused phoe and nyef.
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<beach>
Ouch!
<beach>
loke`: You REALLY have to come to ELS. That way you will remember quite a few people here.
<loke`>
beach: for sure.
<loke`>
beach: I have a huge problems with names. Always had.
<loke`>
phoe and nyef both name nicks of four characters, which does not make up any sensible word or name. It's a hopeless endeavour for me to tell the, apart :-)
<loke`>
them
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<loke`>
I am really trying to make it there. It's not the easiest place to get to though
<beach>
Yes, I see. We are all different in what we can remember.
<loke`>
Which is the nearest airport by the way?
<beach>
Malaga I think.
<pjb>
Yes.
<pjb>
Also Gibraltar.
<beach>
Oh, right.
<pjb>
If you come thru UK, Gibraltar would be good.
<loke`>
If I don't want to break the bank, it's a 20 hour flight.
<loke`>
pjb: Via UK is not ideal for me.
<pjb>
then you could try coming in paquebote.
<loke`>
Oh wait... actually it is
<pjb>
3 weeks, and all the niceties to keep programming during the travel.
<loke`>
Gibraltar via LHR is only 18 hours.
<beach>
loke`: Take some vacation around it. Stop in a few places to meet some friends.
<beach>
That's what me and my wife are going to do.
<loke`>
beach: I'd do that if it wasn't for the fact that I have a family and the kids is going to school :-(
<beach>
Can't they do without you for a few days?
<loke`>
How long does it take to travel from gibraltar to malaga?
* loke`
checks google maps
<beach>
Ask pjb. He lived there for some time.
<pjb>
Well, you want Gibraltar to Marbella, since Marbella is in the middle.
<loke`>
the trip I'm planning now is literally arriving as close to the start of the conference and leaving immediately after
<beach>
loke`: So, you have tricks to help you remember people. Nice.
<loke`>
I can remember lots of things, but names don't work...
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<loke`>
In a previous job (decades ago) I was working in a group consisting of roughly 20 people. 2 years into the job, I still only knew the names of about half of them.
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<beach>
That's pretty impressive. This problem must get you in trouble quite often, I suppose.
<beach>
People have a tendency not to understand things like that.
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<loke`>
beach: It's OK actually. I'm pretty upfront about it. Also, if I see a name I usually know who it is. My problem is associating a name with a face.
<loke`>
I need to assicate it with something other than a face. Like an actual bottle of JD :-)
<loke`>
So phoe=phoenix is really helpful.
<loke`>
I thinkt hat's why I prefer nickanmes on places like IRC. Nicknames usually have an actually relation to real things, rather than abstract names.
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<loke`>
I'm studying physics now, and they keep using abstract names (and worse, one-letter names at that) to describe things like momentum, etc... “P”!? wtf...
<loke`>
V=potential energy
<loke`>
P is momnentum
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<loke`>
TIme to go for lunch, and pick up my bike
<pjb>
loke`: one good trick, is to have the names of people on their doors. But keep them up-to-date! :-)
<pjb>
loke`: but usual names have meanings!
<beach>
They do indeed.
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<hajovonta>
hi
<loke`>
Hello
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<drmeister>
Hey - does anyone know any Javascript programming? I'm writing a Common Lisp program to communicate with Javascript in a browser and I'm getting the wrong version of the Javascript source shipped to the browser.
<easye>
Not sure what "wrong version of the Javascript" means there.
<drmeister>
Hi - In the browser console (chrome) under Sources nbextensions/nglview-js-widgets/index.js
<drmeister>
The file contains old source code - I have newer source code in a directory.
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<drmeister>
I'm really fuzzy on what Javascript files get shipped to the browser and how I get it to send the files I want.
<drmeister>
Let me try explaining that a bit more clearly
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<drmeister>
I've got a directory on my computer ~/Development/widget-dev/nglview-v1.0.a1/build/lib/nglview/static/index.js - it's an updated Javascript file that contains the code that I want installed in the browser by Jupyter notebooks.
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<drmeister>
The source code that I see in the Chrome Debugging console is older - I'm not sure where it's coming from.
<jdz>
drmeister: Chrome is very aggressive with caching.
<jdz>
drmeister: I suggest force-reloading the page.
<drmeister>
How would I force reload the page?
<jdz>
Some combination of control and shift + reload button.
<jdz>
Maybe opening in a private window also does not use cache (to test if caching is the problem).
<jackdaniel>
kini: some implementations provide unload-module functionality (I know at least that LW does, adding support for it in ECL would be fairly easy too)
<drmeister>
jdz: I was able to force reload and I could see it disappear from the console and then return.
<drmeister>
Unfortunately it reloaded the same old code - it's stuck in there somewhere.
<drmeister>
For instance - this function is in the old code in the Chrome console:
<drmeister>
I need to figure out how to get jupyter notebooks to send the new code to the browser - argh
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<jdz>
drmeister: Maybe jupyter is [lazy?] loading needed javascripts on its own? Anyway it all seems to be a caching issue. Maybe you can run "find . -type f -exec touch \{\} +" in your project directory.
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<hajovonta>
drmeister: are you using hunchentoot?
<drmeister>
No - just jupyter notebooks and Chrome
<drmeister>
I think I found the old files - there are files with the same old code in ~/Library/Jupyter/nbextensions/nglview-js-widgets this is OS X and this looks like a jupyter notebook specific thing.
<hajovonta>
move those files and see what happens :D
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<raynold>
ahh it's a wonderful day
<Shinmera>
Demonstrably false
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<HeyFlash>
Hi guys
<Shinmera>
What's up
<HeyFlash>
I'm trying to remember a Common Lisp system that I saw on this channel. Unfortunately I can't remember the name, nor did I fully understand what it does back then. But it sounded very interesting.
<Xach>
Oh yeah, that was Barsepholom
<hajovonta>
why was it interesting?
<Shinmera>
HeyFlash: Well that rules out all of my projects :^)
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<HeyFlash>
As far as I understood, it was a system for documents of any kind, where you could define rules between the source of the document and the "display version" of the document, and the system then worked as an editor that let you edit both the source and a WYSIWYG version of the document in parallel.
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<Shinmera>
The first part makes me think of my article about a unified document processing model, but that never got turned into an actual program, so
<easye>
(Prolog is basically a concise way of expressing Church term rewriting)
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<easye>
Or one of the ideas in Prolog, anyways.
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<easye>
In Common Lisp, I tend to express term rewriting systems in terms of their overloading of some CL reader.
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<easye>
I still don't know the best way to debug the result other than "print statements". But maybe I will understand that part after I get something smaller working.
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<easye>
projectured is indeed cool. With an SVG backend, I could a lot of my stuff with that code and even get it "projected" in SDL.
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<jdz>
easye: TRACE is very nice.
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<easye>
jdz: Hmm, yeah, I guess the call graph should be expressed via CL:TRACE. Thanks for the reminder.
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<dmiles>
yes.. prolog objects for example: obj(claz_string,"i am a modifiable string") or obj(claz_synonym_stream,sym(pkg_cl,"*STANDARD-OUTPUT*")).
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<dmiles>
i can modify the string there by setarg(2,Term,"my new modification")
<jackdaniel>
why does it look somewhat similar to ecl internals? ,)
<dmiles>
though i might be describing the next phase outside of term rewrite but the idea is the terms value is the object
<dmiles>
actually the wam thing looks very much like ECL :P
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<dmiles>
i think some of my namiing convertions even get borrowed
<dmiles>
like how i name the tramploines
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<jackdaniel>
wouldn't it be easier to contribute missing pieces to ecl to achieve goals you have in mind? (just asking)
<dmiles>
hard to tell
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<dmiles>
i'd end up effectivly trying to merge in all of SWI-Prolog ;\
<dmiles>
but then i rahter do that from YAP-Prolgo but i am not as skilled at YAP
<dmiles>
of course i'd find a smoother way (than merging the whole thing in!) but one system ends up being an inferior mode ot that other
<dmiles>
(not that would be bad.. it jsut isnt taking full advantage of either)
<dmiles>
(like full advantage of when ECL has locative abilities)
<dmiles>
the garbage collector in SWI-prolog (which manages the locatives) needs to be picking up the ECL locatives
<dmiles>
(that is the sort of thing that sounds like brutal coding)
<jackdaniel>
OK, thanks for explaining this
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<dmiles>
so if SWI-prolog is managing the heap and things for ECL, (ECL wouldnt mind such "micro"-managment) SWI prolog needs to become smarter when it dealing with the beutifful ECL objects
<jackdaniel>
btw, I've started writing tutorial how to add first-class types to ECL (like mentioned locatives)
<jackdaniel>
as part of internals documentation
<dmiles>
oh good.. yeah i really need such documentaiton.. since i really do have to see how far down ECL went toward the WAM
<dmiles>
like before.. i wrote a 10k line interface between ECL and SWI-Prolog and never even noticed!
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<dmiles>
(the reason i chose ECL was the embeddability alone .. the locatives was almost and accident )
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<dmiles>
an accident.. but of course i dreamed about having things like symbol values that after failure would unbind
<dmiles>
(to their previous values)
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<kami>
Hello #lisp
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<beach>
Hello kami.
<kami>
Xach: quicklisp-client's minitar implementation doesn't honour the file's mtime inside the archive. I have a use case where it is important to do so.
<kami>
Hi beach.
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<Shinmera>
kami: That doesn't sound like a good thing to rely on
<Shinmera>
What exactly is your use case?
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<kami>
Shinmera: I use the archives in a Docker container, but don't unpack them at Docker image creation time (to reduce the image size). Without mtimes from the archive, every time a lib is quickloaded, the lisp files have a newer timestamp than the (possibly mounted) fasl files.
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<kami>
Shinmera: what are your concerns, if I wanted the unpacked files to have the same timestamps as the files in the archive? This is default tar behaviour (at lead GNU tar).
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<kami>
s/lead/least/
<Shinmera>
kami: Timestamps can generally change for a lot of reasons
<Shinmera>
As for QL doing "the right thing", CL doesn't expose the ability to update timestamps, and doing so portably would probably be quite a bit of pain.
<kami>
Shinmera: I would expect the mtime of files in ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/ not to change. If I wanted to hack the sources, I'd check out the original repos.
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<Shinmera>
What you could do is hack ASDF to disregard the timestamps for stuff located in the QL repository.
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<kami>
Shinmera: QL already contains implementation specific parts. I don't think it'd be too difficult to implement the desired behaviour.
<Shinmera>
I'm saying the implementation might not expose that either.
<Shinmera>
And I'm saying it might even differ depending on the present filesystem.
<kami>
Shinmera: I understand. Thanks for the hint.
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<hooman>
and aeth as well i think.
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<drmeister>
When I do a (DEFTYPE FOO ...) - is there any way to determine if FOO is a type?
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<Shinmera>
No
<Shinmera>
But you're writing an implementation, so you can make there be a way.
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<beach>
Yes, for example: sicl-global-environment:type-expander, which returns NIL if the symbol is not associated with any type.
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<Bike>
in clasp it would be (sys:getprop typename 'sys::deftype-definition), i think
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<beach>
I am sorry to hear that.
<Bike>
i'll be changing it to something clearer for the sake of building from other implementations
<Bike>
it can be more complicated in other places too, sbcl doesn't have a "setf expander function" for all cases
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<ehmry>
hi, I'm trying to implement a simple DSL as a lisp, but I don't how to pass a list as arguments to a procedure that takes multiple arguments. Would this be `(cons procedue arglist)`?
<jackdaniel>
lerax: you have to ask them, why they make such jokes, usually is so that they look better
<lerax>
But, there is some true on that, don't you think?
<jackdaniel>
judging from picture, I bet it was made by f# entusiast
<jackdaniel>
because they place themself in the best spot on the picture
<jackdaniel>
well, I don't, but I'm biased of course
<lerax>
jackdaniel: yes, was made by a F# programmer.
<jackdaniel>
see? and I wasn't cheating, only looked at the picture (I saw url after making that guess)
<ehmry>
I hardly use or understand lisp, but the last time someone asked me how programming works I gave them a lisp book
<jackdaniel>
heh
<jackdaniel>
same here
<lerax>
jackdaniel: but I saw that sometimes that some peoples thinks that LISP is something not so acessible and that. I don't understand why they think. In past I tried think about that because the parenteses and prefix style... but oh god, why this is so difficult?
<jackdaniel>
regarding understanding ;)
<beach>
lerax: Some people are weird, and seem to get very agitated by the choices of others. You can safely ignore them.
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<beach>
lerax: This is especially true for people who feel insecure, i.e. they are not sure that they spent that much time on the right choice.
<lerax>
beach: ok, I'm just trying to receive a feedback about the LISP community about what they think about that. I like LISP, but on my groove, it's just me.
<beach>
lerax: So their weapon is to try to discredit others.
<jackdaniel>
lerax: as I mentioned, you must ask them. maybe they tried to learn lisp and failed for some reason? or they have heard someone who did?
<lerax>
jackdaniel: seems some like that.
<jackdaniel>
lerax: LISP is an old language nobody uses now. There is a whole family of languages which come from, or are inspired by LISP
<beach>
lerax: I don't think anybody here likes "LISP", because we have written it "Lisp" for the past few decades.
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<lerax>
jackdaniel: sincerely, my Java lectures was more difficult for me than learn Common Lisp alone.
<jackdaniel>
this channel is about Common Lisp, which is fairly newer language
<beach>
lerax: Like I said, don't worry about those people.
<lerax>
jackdaniel: I understand that, but the article attack all LISP family as you see.
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<lerax>
jackdaniel: so I'm thinking that can be something related to excel of parenthesis style? :v
<beach>
lerax: That shows their ignorance, because there is not a well defined "Lisp family"of languages.
<lerax>
excess*
<jackdaniel>
I won't bother to look at the "article", I'm not particularily interested in reasons – I've tried to answer your question
<beach>
lerax: What is your point?
<lerax>
jackdaniel: yes, I'm ok with your answer.
<lerax>
jackdaniel: just trying see if this wrong misconception is something spread or not.
<lerax>
(about Lisp being top of ivory tower and etc)
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<tfb>
lerax: people have done that since before I was born probably: the answer is to stop worrying and love the bomb.
<lerax>
jackdaniel: just curiosity, in general. Thanks for you answer.
<jackdaniel>
you'll find people complaining about lisp, haskell, java, basic, cobol, f#, ruby, python etc, the thing is people like some languages and sometimes try to make them look better by comparing them to others
<jackdaniel>
sure, glad I could help, see you around ;)
<lerax>
jackdaniel: I'm learning in past of the two years, but is very common for me seeing things like that for people who knows Lisp or failed learning it.
<beach>
lerax: For what it's worth, people who come here to #lisp remark on the fact that it is one of the friendliest channels they have every visited.
<lerax>
jackdaniel: so in general that is not a very good reference, this is why I'm asking here.
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<jackdaniel>
I doubt people lurking here would dislike Lisp (as some vague idea), they wouldn't be here otherwise (probably)
<lerax>
beach: Yes, I think that too. Times and times I visit here and is a good place for me. I'm not wanting to judging or something else, but #c is a really hard channel to follow on freenode, for instance. #haskell is another good channel as lisp.
<lerax>
beach: thanks.
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<jmercouris>
Anyone know how to customize the port that swank starts up in?
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<lerax>
jmercouris: 'slime-port ?
<jmercouris>
lerax: I found the answer just now actually
<lerax>
Hmm, that will be great. I don't have MacOS and only have on my machine the SBCL.
<jmercouris>
I guess on Linux theoretcially any implementation will work
<jmercouris>
theoretically* as bindings exist for GTK that work on most implementations
<lerax>
Yes, I understand. But you use something specific of CCL?
<jmercouris>
Yeah, I use the objective-c bridge on MacOS
<jmercouris>
That's how I do native cocoa views/webkit on MacOS
<jmercouris>
yields significantly better performance over other solutions
<jmercouris>
I tried the nectar of cross-platform with QT, and was dissapointed by the performance, so I really modularized the code and created an interface interface to allow for easy porting
<lerax>
jmercouris: I understand. I'm reading the thread that you sent here. That really can be fixed with some dynamic conditionals, but is work to do.
<jmercouris>
that's the interface one ahs to impelment
<jmercouris>
whoman: What's ceramic?
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<whoman>
ceramic.github.io
<lerax>
Seems pretty neat.
<whoman>
electron for common lisp
<whoman>
i used it briefly
<lerax>
D: electron
<lerax>
it's scares me.
<jmercouris>
whoman: I literally just said I was looking for performance :D
<lerax>
whoman: works fine for you? I don't like electron that much.
<lerax>
jmercouris: I prefer your approach.
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<whoman>
sorry guys i wasnt selling the ultimate product in the world. im just showing you all the related stuff that is out there.
<lerax>
jmercouris: would be nice support on GTK+Linux on future. I would try.
<lerax>
whoman: no problem, thanks for sharing it!
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<jmercouris>
lerax: Yeah, it'll come hopefully, at the very least if it gains some popularity on OSX, it'll attract enough attention to hopefully find someone to make a port
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<whoman>
i guess no one has used electron? atom and vs.code are very fast for me.
<jmercouris>
It should be trivial enough to make a port as all of the interface code is very extracted from the other part
<whoman>
webbrowser = already ported everywhere, latest tech and gfx and hardware
<whoman>
so like. im also pointing at something else here
<whoman>
Qt and GTK is the best we have got otherwise
<jmercouris>
whoman: What are you pointing at?
<whoman>
so yeah
<jmercouris>
My primary issue with QT is that it does any painting to the screen for whatever OS it is ported on, so the speed at which it can update and render things is contingent upon the skill of the QT maintainers
<whoman>
does any?
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<lerax>
whoam: I have to use sometimes and the amount of RAM that used is something unacceptable. VsCode + Ionide + F# + WebPack + Fable takes about 3GB of my RAM. In general for editors I prefer something like Emacs or Sublime Text (which is very efficient).
<jmercouris>
So on OSX I was having huge graphical performance issues, whereas with native, it is way way faster, and way lighter
<whoman>
X11 itself is quite fast/native for as many platforms
<lerax>
I use some electron applications, but I really don't like.
<whoman>
not sure what you are looking for.,
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<jmercouris>
whoman: Performance
<whoman>
i only have 2GB ram, i can basically only run firefox. i am [literally] in the process of installing 32bit ff
<lerax>
whoam: https://github.com/GGBRW/BOOLR a good application distributed as a electron app that I use, for instance.
<whoman>
okay well. maybe you should look at SDL or OpenGL
<whoman>
vulkan
<jmercouris>
whoman: No, I'd rather use a pre-compiled version of webkit as part of a graphical toolkit that contains the implementation for rendering already done
<whoman>
cuda, opencl - super fast
<lerax>
whoman: how you can use electron? I don't understand. I only have 4GB and almost anything electron app is a hell for me.
<jmercouris>
I know that I am not capable enough to make something better than the maintainers of a GUI toolkit that is NATIVE to a given platform
<lerax>
I even need to dropout systemd that is another giant cancer as init.
<whoman>
jmercouris, right. so, existing web browsers who have done all the work. so i am not sure what you are looking for
<jmercouris>
whoman: I am only looking for performance
<jmercouris>
what is unclear about that?
<whoman>
well i am still pointing. nothing is unclear on my side =)
<jmercouris>
You have to separate mentally the chrome from the actual browser
<jmercouris>
I am not interested in the chrome that ships with any browsers today
<whoman>
webkit is like a super platform. sure its hip and all the kids play facebook youtube on it, but let us look at things logically here
<jmercouris>
In this case turning the browser into the chrome is a huge mistake
<whoman>
webkit, you are saying right ?
<jmercouris>
I have a strong feeling you are just trolling me at this point
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<whoman>
chrome, chromium, electron, ... wait what? okay sorry. was jus ttrying to help. im going for a bike ride, good luck on your project my friend!
<jmercouris>
Thank you! and enjoy your bike ride!
<whoman>
thanks i will =)
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<jmercouris>
I just realized, you know what would be a really cool feature, scripting emacs to make nEXT do stuf
<jmercouris>
for example you should be able to click on a symbol and have it open up a new tab with the clhs at the appropriate page
<Josh_2>
But that's what happens when you type C-c-d h
<Josh_2>
Something like that
<jmercouris>
I know, I'm just giving an example
<jmercouris>
You could do a lot of things
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<whoman>
isn't that just swank ..?
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<whoman>
we should add swank/ECL to everything
<whoman>
20-30 years ago a project was started as the official GNU scripting extension language. you know how we all use bash, gcc, make, ls, all the gnu things? we are supposed to be using Guile for all the things!
<whoman>
=P
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<jackdaniel>
yeah, ecl everywhere! ;-)
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<whoman>
yeah11
<whoman>
*!!
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<jmercouris>
Yeah, guile didn't live up to the hype
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<aeth>
I have a custom stream called a pipe (actually, there are character and byte versions) that you can read to and write from, and I have an empty? method that sees if anything is there. I then use bt:with-lock-held to write in one thread and read if not empty in the other, in two separate loops. The read is tied to the framerate, the write is on its own timer, of at least 1 sec.
<aeth>
Is this working just because of coincidences or is this actually okay?
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<aeth>
Just to be clear, the stream is just a very thin abstraction over a circular buffer queue of char or bytes. The whole thing is surprisingly concise.
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<shka>
beach: Well, honestly it is kinda embarrassing that all you have are spelling and grammar mistakes
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<Baggers>
Given a struct that has 1 slot with a valid init-form and one boa constructor that takes no arguments, will an instance of the struct made via this constructor have the slot initialized via the init-form or is the value implementation defined?
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<Bike>
the initform, surely
<joncol>
Yo! I'm doing some `princ':ing and some `format t "xyz"':ing, but nothing is shown!? I'm running sbcl + Emacs + some SDL muumbo jumbo. What dives?
<Bike>
check *inferior-lisp*? perhaps that mumbo jumbo rebinds standard output, though.
<joncol>
Bike: Truth! That's were it all went
<joncol>
What's the reasons behind this?
<Bike>
you are of course aware that if not otherwise controlled, princ will output to *standard-output*, and the t in format t stands for *standard-output*. something in your setup has probably rebound this.
<Bike>
for example, it might have started a new thread, which uses the default standard output binding rather than the repl binding.
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<Bike>
you could do (princ *standard-output*) and see if it looks like it matches the repl *standard-output*;.
<joncol>
Bike: with your help, I'm beginning to fathom it all. But how would I go about things if I were to have the inclination to put all the output into a single REPL window? Making it all appear in one single place?
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<Baggers>
joncol: are you using sdl2kit?
<joncol>
No
<joncol>
What is that?
<p_l>
Guile apparently shows up in various places in GNU ecosystem, but then a) RMS really mismanaged GNU the operating system b) his lisp promises were mostly empty ;)
<Baggers>
joncol: one way of interacting with sdl
* p_l
recently found out that GNU make supports Guile
<joncol>
Baggers> Really cool yt videos btw!
<Bike>
Baggers: this is specifically for &aux, as it explains in the text
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<Baggers>
joncol: thanks!
<joncol>
I'm using cl-sdl2
<Bike>
joncol: i don't know enough about your setup. what it boils down to is that you need to make sure the stream you're writing to is the emacs one.
<Baggers>
Bike: thankyou, not sure why my brain was stuck on this, but that helps
<Bike>
Baggers: i didn't know about that wrinkle myself.
<joncol>
Bike: So no easy way of redirecting the output to the *inferior-lisp* to be placed instead in the *slime-repl sbcl* buffe?
<Bike>
there might be an easy way, but i can't know, given that i have no idea what the heck you are doing
<Baggers>
the sdl2 thing is (most likely) that sdl2 is dispatching the code down to the main thread (thread 0), and that doesnt have *standard-output* bound to the same output as your repl thread
<joncol>
Oh
<Baggers>
I'll just go peek as I cant remember if it was sdl2 or sdl2kit that does this
<Baggers>
joncol: the reason for it doing this is to handle system which complain when you try and interact with the window manager from a thread other than thread0 (macOS for example)
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<Baggers>
I think I remembered that correctly, you should come over to #lispgames where some of the folks with a better understanding of that lib than I can help
<joncol>
OK... I don't know the theory behind the the *inferior-lisp* buffer vs the *slime-repl sbcl* buffer... But it seems user-friendly to put all the output in one place?
<p_l>
joncol: inferior-lisp is the stdout of the binary started by Emacs
<p_l>
i.e. it's handled from *outside* of lisp image
<p_l>
*slime-repl* buffer is provided by swank rebinding streams to talk with it
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<Baggers>
joncol: you can also think of as being the lisp process itself. Slime started it for you as that is the common case, but the lisp process might already be running, then you use slime-connect. That process might even be on a totally different machine, which is handy for working on systems remotely
<joncol>
p_l: Hmm, OK. I guess it makes sense but I don't feel fully satisfied after hearing that explanation.
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<p_l>
we live in imperfect world
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<joncol>
No doubt about it.
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<joncol>
Baggers: Btw, what does CEPL provide on top of manually interacting with OpenGL?
<joncol>
It's always fun to reinvent wheels, but are there reasons not to?
<Shinmera>
A good reason is not having to work on lots of really, extremely tedious details.
<Baggers>
joncol: It makes the gl api more pleasant to use interactively (more repl friendly). It removes a tonne of boiler plate around vaos. It allows you to write you shaders in lisp. It allows you to use concepts in your shaders that arent usually available like first class functions. It allows structs and functions outside of the pipelines so you dont have duplication between shaders
<Baggers>
and some more
<joncol>
OK, that's cool! I'll look into it.
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<joncol>
Shinmera, the other youtube lisper! Cool videos you have as well, :)
<Shinmera>
Thanks!
<Shinmera>
I have to go sleep to bed now tho, so gnight
<joncol>
Gnight
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<Ober>
yeah great videos
<Ober>
now if only you could have the elisp functions being invoked show up in the mini buffer
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<joncol>
Is there some command to clear the slime namespaces?
<joncol>
If that makes sense.
<joncol>
(In Emacs.)
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<jmercouris>
I'm having a very interesting issue with Slime
<jmercouris>
If I start Slime and load my system, and start my program all functions work normally
<jmercouris>
if I compile my system as a standalone executable, and then start swank, slime connect, some of my functions work properly but the changes in the GUI do not seem to take effect
<jmercouris>
Any ideas? Why could it be that invoking a function would work if I started the program from slime, and not work if I started a swank server and connected to it
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<jmercouris>
So I have an element in a list right, and I know how to get the next element using CDR, but I can't go back right? as I assume Lisp only provides singly linked lists out of the box yes?
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<Bike>
cons cells form singly linked lists, yes.
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<Bike>
as for your gui thing, perhaps your gui program doesn't work if it's not run from the main thread?
<jmercouris>
That's true changes don't work if not run from the main thread