avsm changed the topic of #mirage to: Good news everyone! Mirage 3.0 released!
raboof has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
raboof has joined #mirage
https_GK1wmSU has joined #mirage
https_GK1wmSU has left #mirage [#mirage]
copy_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
weichen has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
Bluerise has quit [Quit: brb]
https_GK1wmSU has joined #mirage
https_GK1wmSU has left #mirage [#mirage]
copy_ has joined #mirage
copy_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
abeaumont has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
abeaumont has joined #mirage
copy_ has joined #mirage
yomimono has joined #mirage
<mato> yomimono: Yo! Long time no see!
<yomimono> mato: hi! Good to see you again :)
<yomimono> I thought you might still be on holiday, or maybe you haven't left yet?
<mato> yomimono: No, holiday been and gone...
<mato> yomimono: Not enough of it though, given the local weather (35C+, HOT)
<yomimono> mato: that is TOO MANY degrees
<mato> yomimono: Trying to make do by working from our summer house, but the lake is rapidly approaching soup-like temperatures...
<yomimono> mato: yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
<yomimono> mato: Come to Wisconsin, where we're having a pleasant summer for once!
<mato> yomimono: What's pleasant in Wisconsin terms?
<yomimono> mato: it's been 23-25C or so during the day for a couple weeks now, not a ton of rain but the occasional nice thunderstorm
<yomimono> mato: cool enough to wear trousers and long sleeves so you don't get eaten alive by mosquitoes
thomasga has joined #mirage
<mato> yomimono: Sounded awesome until that last detail :-)
<yomimono> mato: Yeah, I'm still amazed that there are whole parts of the world that can have any aperture in a building without a screen in it
mort___ has joined #mirage
<mato> yomimono: Mosquito population here seems to be ~0 this year, I guess it's too hot...
<mato> yomimono: And pretty much no rain, except for bi-(tri-)weekly massive downpours, which just result in a bunch of flooding since the earth is too dry to soak it up.
<yomimono> mato: The phrase "too hot for mosquitoes" strikes fear into my heart very effectively.
djs55 has joined #mirage
talex5 has joined #mirage
* djs55 waves
<demonimin> hi all
djwillia has joined #mirage
<yomimono> hi!
<yomimono> I see the clock's turned over, so it must be meeting time!
<mort___> .
<dinosaure> o/
<mato> mort___: Hola!
amirmc has joined #mirage
<yomimono> The agenda's over at https://github.com/mirage/mirage-www/wiki/Call-Agenda#2nd-august-2017 , please feel free to add stuff :)
<djwillia> hi all!
<mort___> mato bon dia :)
<thomasga> hello!
<amirmc> o/
<yomimono> I'd put an item on the agenda that's first - releases of mirage and functoria would be great, but mirage needs a few more bugfixes to deal with package renaming first
<thomasga> the new release of functoria is now merged in opam-repo
<yomimono> oh awesome!!
<yomimono> that's great news, so in that case we just need to fix names in the mirage front-end tool and then we can release that with a constraint requiring latest functoria, right?
<thomasga> so the only thing blocking the next release of mirage is deciding when to stop I guess :-)
<thomasga> so yes, I agree that we should just fix the constraints and ship it
<yomimono> We need a bugfix release badly, the tool is not really usable with the current opam universe
<yomimono> thomasga: OK, sounds good. Thanks for your work on it :)
<thomasga> I am still a bit uncomfortable about adding upper bounds everywhere, but I guess there is no other solution
<yomimono> I don't like that solution much either, but as I understand it opam2 will fix this problem?
<thomasga> I am not sure — upper bounds usually add a new class of problems. But I guess these are better than the current set of problems we have :-)
<mato> Would this be a good time to introduce some breaking changes on the Solo5 front, or is that something better left for a future release?
<thomasga> (and yes we should release a new version of mirage to unblock all our users lost in dependency management hell)
<yomimono> mato: I think that should be a 3.1 or something, not wrapped up in this
<thomasga> mato: probably best to wait a bit
<thomasga> +1 for a 3.1 with this
<mato> yomimono: Ok, sounds good. Some of the changes are not baked yet, so I agree.
<yomimono> I have some time today so I'll try to get the rename patches PR'd for mirage, rather than complaining about it any more :)
<yomimono> mato: We've discussed a 3.1 very vaguely before, but if you think the solo5 work is getting close enough to push for it shortly, we should write out what needs doing there
<yomimono> ...actually, you've already done that, haven't you?
<mato> yomimono: Not enough -- there are a bunch of things that are not clear yet (eg. renaming ukvm to something w/o "kvm" in it)
<mato> yomimono: Which would be the most user-visible change, but still need to spend some time thinking about it so as not to have to go through >1 user-visible rename...
<yomimono> mato: Seems wise.
<amirmc> mato: there was an issue for that naming thing, right?
<mato> amirmc: There is, but needs updating with recent oob discussions. #172
<thomasga> can we propose names?
<amirmc> maybe not right now ;)
<djs55> a public vote?
<djwillia> sounds like thomasga is eager to put in a candidate :)
<mato> thomasga: Feel free in the issue. We need several names, one for the unikernel "monitor" (ukvm) and one for the code in kernel/.
<mato> thomasga: I have a strawman which was "ubase" (kernel) and "umon" (monitor).
<thomasga> right, I will propose silly names in https://github.com/Solo5/solo5/issues/172 :-)
<thomasga> haha, I wanted to say 'umon' ;-)
<mato> Please do. I'll also try to update the issue with some background. Been distracted with the arm64 stuff, which is progressing nicely.
<mato> (As of now if you pin solo5-kernel-ukvm, ocaml-freestanding and mirage-solo5 master you can build anything which does not need mirage-entropy or nocrypto)
<yomimono> Moving on, unless there are objections...
<yomimono> samoht wanted to bring attention back to https://github.com/mirage/mirage-www/pull/562 , which I got distracted reading just now (sorry!)
<thomasga> yes the idea is to try to improve the general quality of the ecosystem
* yomimono looks frantically for LIKE button
<thomasga> the last proposal is to try to defines some sort of "levels"
<thomasga> e.g. level 1 is you have the basic files (CHANGES, LICENSE, README) + basic CI + everything set-up for odig to be happy
<Drup> (Does that includes cool achievement-like badges ?)
<thomasga> then you have tests, use ocp-indent, use a code linter, follow good practice, etc
<thomasga> Drup: yes!!
<Drup> Nice
<thomasga> I will try to come up with a first strawman for the levels before the end of the week, and having more feedback would be useful (I already got plenty, but the more I have the more I am happy :p)
<thomasga> (and level 10 would be to formally verify the library of course)
<thomasga> anyway, that's it for me :-)
<mato> Sounds good, I'll read the PR and will give feedback.
<yomimono> Same here. Thanks for bringing our attention to it, samoht :)
<thomasga> I haven't added all the feedback I got in the PR yet, I'll do it in the next days
<mato> Having just spent the best part of the day dealing with npm insanity (for Solo5 ARM64 CI), I'm all for quality packages!
<thomasga> (so read also the comments in the PR, not only the doc)
<yomimono> Objections to moving on?
<mato> thomasga: Which reminds me, one of the metrics I think we want is "Does not (unnecessarily) {depend on, vendor} C code"
mort___ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<yomimono> I think that, along with some more general "write nice code" guidelines in the document, are better stated as goals than properties that a codebase has or doesn't have
<yomimono> "unnecessarily" is subjective
<yomimono> that particular can of worms is probably best opened in the PR, though
<mato> Agreed.
<yomimono> In that case, moving on --
<yomimono> talex5, got some updates on capnp?
<talex5> I've created a thread on discuss to track it now: https://discuss.ocaml.org/t/mirage-capn-proto-rpc-library/658
<talex5> Mainly, I've been trying to improve the API a bit. That's resulted in lots of internal changes, but it's mostly done now.
<talex5> I'm currently working on getting the compiler changes into a state where they can be upstreamed.
<talex5> Then I'll make a new release of the compiler, and then a first release of the RPC library.
<talex5> (that's it from me)
<thomasga> that looks great :-) I already said it on the mailing list, but I really like capn-proto
<yomimono> Cool, thanks talex5 :)
<thomasga> especially that you can easily pass functions/callbacks around
<talex5> Yeah, thanks for the feedback!
<talex5> Hopefully there's slightly less boilerplate now.
<thomasga> talex5: does the multiple agents RPC thing works?
<Drup> Hum, I should take a look at the pipelining
<Drup> Is it automatic ?
<talex5> thomasga: 3rd-party hand-off? No that will require crypto support first. For now, it just relays messages in that case.
<talex5> Drup: yes.
<thomasga> talex: "Level 3: Three-way interactions"
<Drup> talex5: could you point to the part of the API that enforces that ?
<thomasga> I guess we don't have this yet :-)
<talex5> There's an example at https://github.com/mirage/capnp-rpc#pipelining
<talex5> A capability promise is a bit like an Lwt promise, but if it knows that the answer is coming from a remote site then it forwards all queries there, since that will be the first to know the answer.
<talex5> If you don't want that, you have to tell it to wait explicitly.
<Drup> So it is indeed similar to staging
<Drup> (Callback beings your explicit antiquotation)
<talex5> Not sure I follow that.
<Drup> eliom also does this form of automatic pipelining, hence my curiosity
<talex5> Everything here is runtime.
<talex5> The schema compiler is just for type safety.
<Drup> Well, yes and now, you have two "run times", before sending the message and after receiving it
<Drup> staging ≠ code generation
<Drup> anyway, that's off topic, I was just curious, I should take a closer look
<yomimono> there is one more item on the agenda: amirmc was curious about the state of our call recording
<yomimono> sorry, by "call recording" I mean IRC logs
<yomimono> Unless something changed while I was on holiday, we have nothing beyond whitequark's logger.
<mato> What happened to the unpurecamelbot that used to do the job?
<yomimono> The imaginaryfriend + canopy setup is in some bitrotted state I think, but I don't know the details
<yomimono> avsm and engil, I think, have keys to it and can probably say what's wrong
<amirmc> The logs on http://canopy.mirage.io/irclogs seem to stop in June (and the ordering is wrong).
<mato> Presumably whitequark's logger is running and someone can update the logs on canopy manually?
<mato> (By cut-n-paste)
<yomimono> yes, there's an outdated issue calling for folks to do that at https://github.com/mirage/canopy-data/issues/16 , but there are more dates needed now
<mato> Right, so that issue is just a case of "doing the cut-n-paste". Unclear what needs to be done to make the automated stuff work again.
<yomimono> Correct.
<mato> Neither avsm nor engil are here it seems.
<mato> So, amirmc, if you have the time to do the cut-n-paste, that would be awesome. canopy should be running (I run it now :))
<yomimono> I've created a "revive imaginary friend" issue and tagged avsm and engil there
<mato> Sounds good.
<amirmc> If there's isn't much (any) massaging needed, I can take a look at copy/pasting the July calls.
<amirmc> I'll have some time tomorrow to look at it.
<yomimono> That'd be great, amirmc :) thanks!
<yomimono> we have nothing else on the agenda. any other business?
<amirmc> We should try and fix the bot though or just switch to the Debian MeetBot.
<yomimono> amirmc: do you have time to investigate meetbot?
<amirmc> I've poked around before so I'll do that again and describe what needs to happen to get it set up. That's not a promise to set anything up btw :P
<yomimono> Thanks :)
<amirmc> I'll summarise in an issue on mirage/mirage-www
<yomimono> Sounds like that's all for us!
<yomimono> Thanks, everyone!
* mato 's laptop battery is at 10%, I think that means "go jump in the lake"
<mato> yomimono: Thanks for leading.
<yomimono> mato: have fun!!
djwillia has left #mirage ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"]
amirmc has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
talex5 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
yomimono has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
thomasga has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
lars_kurth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lars_kurth has joined #mirage
lars_kurth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lars_kurth has joined #mirage
lars_kurth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lars_kurth has joined #mirage
lars_kurth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lars_kurth has joined #mirage
lars_kurth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lars_kurth has joined #mirage
mort___ has joined #mirage
mort___ has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
tg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
https_GK1wmSU has joined #mirage
https_GK1wmSU has left #mirage [#mirage]
Bluerise has joined #mirage
https_GK1wmSU has joined #mirage
tg has joined #mirage
https_GK1wmSU has left #mirage [#mirage]