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<zozozo>
is it possible to tell dune to fail on warnings when building documentation ?
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<cemerick>
I was super surprised to see that Core has its own quickcheck impl, and that it appears to be much more sophisticated than the other options AFAICT (lots of good utils for characterizing different distributions, etc, among other things)
<companion_cube>
well they certainly have more money and person-time
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<cemerick>
right, that's a given
<cemerick>
I guess my surprise springs from it apparently not being talked about much
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<Leonidas>
the only way to learn about jane street stuff is when they write about it themselves
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<Leonidas>
like they REALLY like their inline and expect tests, whereas I MUCH prefer to know about quickcheck
<Leonidas>
is there a way to make my own runtest-like thing? I want to run my benchmark binary with dune, but that needs an external file
<Leonidas>
I can run dune build @bench which has an alias @bench which runs my binary but that's 100% misuse
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<companion_cube>
I'm not sure how it works, but maybe `(alias bench …)` would do that?
<Leonidas>
but while it works, it feels wrong because `dune build @bench` is just very weird, I'm not building anything
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<companion_cube>
just write a makefile to wrap stuff, anyway :p
<Leonidas>
done
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<companion_cube>
fyi, there's a lib called `benchmark` which doesn't have that many deps ;)
<companion_cube>
can you paste a sample of running the benchs in the PR?
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<Leonidas>
companion_cube: yes, but it probably also does not have that many features (that said, I haven't looked at what I actually need)
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<Leonidas>
companion_cube: added the output
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<Leonidas>
also, you know me, if I can fit Core in somewhere, it is very likely I'll do just that ;-)
<companion_cube>
pffff :p
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<cemerick>
Leonidas: it seems like inline & expect testing is universal, even leaving aside Core, etc. It's not even particularly clear to me how to set up dune to treat an executable as a test.
<companion_cube>
it's very easy, dune runs the executable and considers it as a success on errcode=0
<companion_cube>
that's how I do all my tests (thanks to ounit/alcotest/qcheck)
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: it is a bit weird though because you can't rerun your test, since dune considers your test to be built, so you need to call it with force
<companion_cube>
I wrap it with `dune runtest --force --no-buffer` anyway
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<companion_cube>
(especially with property tests, every run is a different one!)
<companion_cube>
dune knows about diff? and all, but you don't have to use them
<cemerick>
yeah, I don't plan to :-)
<Leonidas>
cemerick: yes, pretty much. I think the `tests` stanza was added post 1.0 even, because it is such a common pattern
<cemerick>
inline tests I don't mind for really minor things, but expect-style tests feel straight out of 1993 IMO
<companion_cube>
wait there's a tests stanza? :D
<Leonidas>
cemerick: mercurial uses (used?) expect tests for *all* tests, so testing any feature required to make sure all timestamps were fixed and all output was exactly reproducible which often took longer than testing what you actually wanted to test.
<Leonidas>
though no idea how you would supply flags to it
<cemerick>
Leonidas: coming most recently from haskell, I dearly miss being able to just declare a pile of `Main`s that don't require their own directories, build files, etc.
<Leonidas>
apparently dune calls the tests I do "regular" tests
<companion_cube>
ah there's also `inline_tests`, right \o/
<Leonidas>
cemerick: I agree. That's mostly because the ocamlc compiler is stuck in 1985 and knows nothing about libraries, packages, directories. So opam has to force-feed it with all kinds of paths and whatnot and dune has to rewrite all your code so the structure gets somehow reasonable :-(
<companion_cube>
cemerick: how do you specify dependencies in Haskell?
<Leonidas>
it feels very much like Python, which refuses to acknowledge that virtualenvs is something people want and pretends a global site-packages is great
<companion_cube>
you got to write the deps somewhere, right?
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<cemerick>
companion_cube: all build and project info goes into a single top-level package.yaml file, which can describe multiple libraries and executables
<companion_cube>
so… like _oasis? :s
<companion_cube>
I'd rather have dune, thank you
<Leonidas>
cemerick: you mean it goes into the Cabal file :p
<cemerick>
I've never used oasis, so that zing goes right over my head
<companion_cube>
when deps enter the frame, though…
<Leonidas>
which is a witchery we might eventually see in dune in 10 years when it has eaten the entire ocaml compiler
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<companion_cube>
well after a `dune init` it should be possible in some time, I think
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: not really, because 1) it was not really part of the compiler and is now even less part of it
<companion_cube>
it was shipped with the compiler
<Leonidas>
2) it didn't handle dependencies at all, you had to figure it out yourself
<companion_cube>
I mean you do have to write dependencies somewhere, don't you?
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<loli>
doesn't stack deal with this well, you have an LTS for certain versions of packages, and you just include said deps in the cabal file
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: yes, but in ocaml you have to do it twice. first in opam then in dune
<companion_cube>
`ocamlbuild -package foo,bar yolo.native` did work (with `-use-ocamlfind` as an infortunate birth mark)
<companion_cube>
ah yeah, that's probably going to die when dune-project absorbs the opam file
<Leonidas>
also the ocamlbuild configuration format was from outer space
<companion_cube>
that's true.
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<companion_cube>
it was also very, very powerful, but that's not always a plus
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: I mostly used it from oasis, which generated some 7000 lines of boilerplate
<companion_cube>
heh
<companion_cube>
you can also write _tags by hand, it works
<Leonidas>
I mean, gotta out-compete autotools somehow
<companion_cube>
and myocamlbuild.ml for more craziness
<companion_cube>
yeah right
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: yes, but I could not understand how. simple things in _tags were difficult and difficult things were impossible and myocamlbuild, yeah well
<companion_cube>
not that hard. myocamlbuild was hard though
<Leonidas>
these days I don't really like build systems that give you much freedom, because nothing is consistent
<companion_cube>
but it did allow for plugins, which dune doesn't :(
<Leonidas>
I rather have a build system which does 80% and well, instead of a thing that I can use to build a build system
<companion_cube>
I agree, which is why we both use dune, heh? :D
<Leonidas>
as such it is really amazing jbuilder was so successful because it gives you basically zero freedom
<Leonidas>
kinda like leiningen in Clojure. You do it the leiningen way and then you'll be fine.
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: plugins in dune will just allow you to load non-GPL code, thus evil :p
<companion_cube>
:D
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<Leonidas>
but node/npm is pretty alright in this regard. npm downloads the dependencies, you can have different versions of your dependencies in your tree simultaneously, you can lock dependencies, when npm has downloaded your 2GB of node_modules node just uses it, without having to to compile a local node in that particular folder. You can even move the folder without destroying the entire thing
<Leonidas>
esy apparently even patches out the paths out of the binaries the ocamlc compiler produces to make this house of cards relocatable
<companion_cube>
this sounds very fragile
<companion_cube>
in OCaml you just can't have 2 versions of the same lib at the same time, that conflicts with uniqueness of paths
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<Leonidas>
it probably is, why are the paths even in the binaries
<Leonidas>
also ocaml knows nothing about paths, because everything is in one single module scope
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<companion_cube>
I didn't mean file paths, but module paths
<companion_cube>
you can't have two modules named A
<Leonidas>
yeah, but I don't see why I couldn't.
<companion_cube>
because the whole compiler relies on that for naming types, I think
<companion_cube>
I mean, most static languages have some form of uniqueness of symbols
<companion_cube>
otherwise, you can't link
<companion_cube>
that npm can do crazy stuff is a bit irrelevant
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<Leonidas>
You could have uniqueness and still include e.g. versions
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<Leonidas>
Dune also alleviates this by reshuffling code to be contained in modules, instead of dumping them all in the global scope as happens per default when you just compile things.
<companion_cube>
yeah, and that wouldn't be possible if the compiler had had ocamlbuild inside it :)
<Leonidas>
that wouldn't be necessary if that compiler-ocamlbuild would do what dune does :p
<companion_cube>
I'm glad dune exists, but it's only possible because ocamlc/opt accepts paths and doesn't try to build everything by itself
<companion_cube>
well it would have been ocamlbuild, not dune, so…
<companion_cube>
hindsight is 20/20 as they say
<Leonidas>
yes, true. I was kind of sad when ocamlbuild got removed, because then you had absolutely nothing, but looking back now it was the right decision
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<companion_cube>
well it's an opam package
<companion_cube>
but I don't think any of my project uses it (or oasis) anymore
<Leonidas>
some of mine do, because I can't really test them and I don't use them anymore
<companion_cube>
totally distinct question: do you use a tool to manage all your repos?
<Leonidas>
making it an opam package removed nearly all the reason to prefer it over any other of the zillion build systems already on opam
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: git?
<companion_cube>
I mean managing your *collection* of repos
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: No. But I also don't quite grasp what kind of management you mean.
<companion_cube>
pulling all of them, etc.
<companion_cube>
I have 60 source repos on github right now :s
<Leonidas>
I have 63 source repos
<Leonidas>
but I never want all of them, so I just work on whatever I'm currently interested in
<Leonidas>
but I'm eager to know about some possible improvements to my workflow :)
<Leonidas>
it reminds me a bit of the dotfile management stuff which I found averagely useful
<companion_cube>
Armael: yeah right? :D
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<Leonidas>
what? in means bridge-code in Danish :p
<Leonidas>
(or quarter-code)
<Armael>
not sure I want to slap more software on the problem of having too much software too handle
<Leonidas>
npm install rm-everything
<companion_cube>
Armael: that bridge has sailed a while ago, if I may
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<Armael>
*shrug*
<Leonidas>
Different topic: I wonder whether it would be cool to organize a hackathon to hack on ocaml stuff, like Danny did some years ago. Whether people would come.
<companion_cube>
where? when? :D
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<Armael>
Danny?
<Armael>
i'll sure come if it's in paris :p
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<companion_cube>
Dannÿ Bunzlï ?
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<slondr>
Any reason in particular why I'm able to call Char.uppercase but not Char.uppercase_ascii?
<slondr>
I'm on OCaml 4.07.1
<companion_cube>
are you sure you `eval $( opam env)`?
<Leonidas>
I was more thinking of Copenhagen, since it is difficult for me to organize stuff in France, not actually being there :D
<Leonidas>
slondr: Most of use use opam and the opam-built ocaml, but what is the error you're seeing?
<slondr>
Some functions in modules like Char or String work but others return "Error: Unbound value [function I tried to call]"
<slondr>
another example, String.length works fine but String.trim returns the error
<slondr>
I'm just getting started with OCaml so I probably did something wrong. I installed through the official repos for my distro and I'm playing with it in utop -emacs
<Leonidas>
slondr: where are you running it?
<Leonidas>
what if you just run it in regular utop?