<beneroth>
immasheepherrder, no. what is compiled is the picolisp runtime/vm. in pil32 the runtime is written in C, in pil64 in assembler (which still gets compiled into machine code), and in pil21 the runtime gets compiled using LLVM
<beneroth>
picolisp source code executed by the picolisp runtime is always interpreted.
<beneroth>
PicoLisp focusing on efficient and fast interpretation instead of having compilation is an essential fundamental concept of PicoLisp.
<beneroth>
The background is, that it allows picolisp source code to be more flexible and powerful, as a picolisp programm can be self-modifying to the extreme (not that this a common thing, but the power for that is there and very useful in specific cases)
<beneroth>
Most (not all) other modern lisps are compiled, and their most powerful language feature are macros (especially famously in common lisp context). PicoLisp as basically no macros (beside a few built-in read macros) but supports the old-age lisp feature called FEXPR (F-Expressions)
<beneroth>
FEXPR's are more powerful than macros, but FEXPR's can be impossible to compile, that is way they got kicked out of most mainstream branches of lisp decades ago.
<beneroth>
The thing is also, that all compiling is essentially based on C language, which was initially made bottom-up to have a usable language which is easy to compile.
<beneroth>
LISP was design from the top-down: what kinds of computing theory make sense to have in a language.
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<Regenaxer>
Thanks beneroth! Good explanation
<beneroth>
Regenaxer :) Just not sure if he even received it, going into timeout...
<beneroth>
immasheepherrder, the joke is that we are used to that. when someones mentions picolisp on reddit or HN then the thread usually derails very quickly into a general discussion of languages. people cannot cope with picolisp ;-)
<beneroth>
smug lisp weenies might be smug about other languages, but we're smug about other lisps too :P
<beneroth>
(not entirely serious, of course)
<Regenaxer>
Right, especially CommonLispPeople react allergically
<beneroth>
(use the right language for the right task)
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, yeah
<beneroth>
we don't care about internet points or any other social scoring systems
<immasheepherrder>
Good!
<beneroth>
immasheepherrder, we just place breadcrumbs all over the place to have a path for the seekers to follow ;-)
<beneroth>
so we generally don't try to convince people. we wait until the people who are not satisfied come to us.
<Regenaxer>
:)
<beneroth>
it's a great self-selection filter. we're a very diverse group, spread all over the world and different professions and fields. but mostly of a similar flavor of how to approach things, being critical thinkers and trying to get to the essence of things...
<beneroth>
(if I may be so self-indulging)
<immasheepherrder>
Any idea what might cause their aversion to PicoLisp? Or is it just aversion to anything that is not Common Lisp?
<beneroth>
mix of both, I would assume
<tankf33der>
reddit’s common lisp mafia
<Regenaxer>
I think they want to claim the name Lisp exclusively
<beneroth>
many common lispers believe they're better than other languages. so another lisp group coming and claiming to achieve stuff in more elegant ways is kinda hurting their self-image
<beneroth>
yeah, that too
<Regenaxer>
T
<Regenaxer>
In fact PicoLisp is older
<beneroth>
a genuine discussion would be nice. but usually people just find it strange and say "but compilers"
<Regenaxer>
(if I count the predecessing versions)
<beneroth>
T
<beneroth>
afk
<Regenaxer>
Good night! :)
<immasheepherrder>
I remember when I was in high school I had a PlayStation 2. Naturally that meant the Xbox was a crappy device. Thinking back, if I would have had a boatload of money at the time, I would have had both and I wouldn't have had those "fanboy" opinions.
<immasheepherrder>
Anything you invest a lot (of time/money/whatever) in, your brain will start to justify. And then other stuff is bad because if it's actually better, that means you wasted your resources.
<immasheepherrder>
Maybe it's the same with CL :)
<Regenaxer>
Yes, makes a lot of sense
<Regenaxer>
Same for me with pil
<immasheepherrder>
I've had a very hard time "choosing" a lisp to learn because of the same reason, I guess: I don't want to waste time on the wrong thing.
<immasheepherrder>
What drew me to PicoLisp is that I think it might be "a language that fits in your head". Instead of learning all kinds of fancy things piled on top of a language, I want to learn the core so I'm confident I know *how* it does what it does.
<immasheepherrder>
I don't have a computer science background though, so it may take me a while :)
<Regenaxer>
I believe "fits in your head" is well to the point
<immasheepherrder>
Awesome! I stole the "fits in your head" quote from an article about Lua, I think :)
<Regenaxer>
hehe :)
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<DKordic>
``Although there are interesting parallels between scribes and programmers, the situation is in a sense worse. The concept of a program is in part an artifact of the scarcity of skills and available labor for producing them. Just as we don't need to own thousands of cards written by scribes saying all the possible things we might want to say, we don't need to have programs written by someone else for doing all the information proces