cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | the secret reason for us trying to get PyPy users: to test the JIT well enough that we're somewhat confident about it
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<energizer>
can anybody explain this? i dont get the argument and the referenced email doesnt clear it up for me
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<njs>
energizer: I think it's just "python doesn't have any concept of sublocal scopes, so creating it just for this would be a lot"
<njs>
I mean ultimately the rationale is "because Guido liked it better this way", and Guido has spent 25 years trying to keep python's scoping system as simple as possible
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<energizer>
njs: isnt that what [x for x in [1,2,3]] is? x doesnt leak in py3. why should y:= leak?
<njs>
energizer: comprehensions *technically* don't involve a sublocal scope, but rather a closure, I guess
<njs>
however I think := has some complicated hack to allow it to leak from out of comprehensions?
<energizer>
njs: isnt that introducing inconsistency with respect to the principle "comprehensions dont leak"
<njs>
please note that I am not one of the PEP authors or advocates, I'm just reporting
<energizer>
njs: so two conflicting principles "comprehensions dont leak" and "no sublocal scopes"
<energizer>
njs: i dont see *practical* (non-principle) benefits of siding with the second principle here (at least, the [total := total + v for v in values] example seems misguided)
<njs>
I think historically part of the complication is that for *generator* expressions, the existence of a separate frame is actually part of the language
<njs>
and you also want [x for x in ...] to be equivalent to list(x for x in ...)
<energizer>
hmm ill have to think about that
<njs>
(this is my attempt to reconstruct why "comprehensions don't leak" exists in the first place, nothing to do with pep 572)
<energizer>
i thought that was a practicality thing -- it's annoying that they'd leak
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<the_rat>
Hm, any idea what this might be about?
<the_rat>
RPython traceback:
<the_rat>
File "rpython_jit_metainterp.c", line 1506, in force_virtual
<the_rat>
File "pypy_interpreter_1.c", line 61304, in ExecutionContext_leave
<the_rat>
File "implement_9.c", line 44987, in call_stub_738
<the_rat>
File "rpython_jit_metainterp_2.c", line 44203, in handler_inline_call_ir_v
<the_rat>
Fatal RPython error: AssertionError
<Alex_Gaynor>
Are you by chance able to reproduce this easily?
<Alex_Gaynor>
It's a JIT bug of some sort, but more than that it's a bit hard to say
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<jiffe>
so I'm curious about using python cffi to obtain the structure of a C struct and build further code based on that
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<jiffe>
I created a test program and this seems to work fine, the problem I think is what goes in this cdef
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<cfbolz>
the_rat: yes, this is a jit bug
<jiffe>
I'd like to be able o just reference the header files that contain the structures which should compile fine but I wouldn't be able to extract the struct definitions themselves this way to create the necessary cdef string
<the_rat>
Maybe something to do with memory limits but I cannot reproduce this easily at all
<cfbolz>
:-(
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