<wolfspraul>
how 'capable' - you can think of it like an unconnected PDA
<wolfspraul>
do you know the specs? what do you have in mind with 'capable'?
<Guest94289>
well, what does "open hardware" mean?
<Guest94289>
is it a device, or just instructions and a bag of components?
<wolfspraul>
ah good point :-)
<wolfspraul>
open hardware means that we try everything possible to not hide hardware or manufacturing secrets
<wolfspraul>
in the end it's a normal portable computing device, in addition one that has very good free software support, and one you could theoretically build yourself
<Guest94289>
by "manufacturing" do you mean you assemble it out of "off the shelf" parts?
<Guest94289>
or do you actually design everything from scratch?
<wolfspraul>
'from scratch' is relative. no, there are many closed parts in it still.
<wolfspraul>
which perspective do you look at the NanoNote from?
<wolfspraul>
as someone who just wants to use it?
<wolfspraul>
as someone who wants to port free software to it, for whatever reason?
<wolfspraul>
or as someone who wants to manufacture an improved version and sell that?
<Guest94289>
from a perspective of someone who wants to learn how hardware works
<wolfspraul>
ah cool, that's good
<wolfspraul>
'hardware works' as in the design/development of hardware, or the making/manufacturing of hardware?
<Guest94289>
well, I guess one needs to know both
<wolfspraul>
for what need?
<wolfspraul>
you will find a wealth of information about both things on qi-hardware.com
<wolfspraul>
the mailing list, this channel here, the wiki and projects server
<wolfspraul>
the planet
<wolfspraul>
Ben NanoNote and (upcoming) Milkymist One are two products with some focus on
<Guest94289>
so basically this device is a CPU, some controllers, memory, flash, and keyboard/display, right?
<Guest94289>
what kind of a CPU is it?
<wolfspraul>
the NanoNote? it's a normal, bit old-fashioned unconnected PDA
<wolfspraul>
336 Mhz mips-like
<Guest94289>
I'm not familiar with PDAs
<wolfspraul>
you can use it as a music player, for note taking, many other small tasks you could do on-the-go
<wolfspraul>
you can use it as a 2 gb usb-storage with keyboard & screen, password safe, etc.
<Guest94289>
where's documentation for it?
<Guest94289>
I mean hardware architecture, instruction set, etc
<wolfspraul>
just google, most of it is in the wiki but google should have the best search access
<wolfspraul>
there are pointers to datasheets as well
<wolfspraul>
there are kicad and orcad schematics and layouts in the projects and downloads servers, pdf schematics
<Guest94289>
yep, just found it, thanks
<Guest94289>
who assembled it?
<Guest94289>
and how many of them exist?
<wolfspraul>
who assembled it? workers at the Sunty factory in Shenzhen, China
<wolfspraul>
about 1100 were sold so far
<wolfspraul>
basically we've made 2 batches of 1000 each so far, first batch sold out, second batch selling now
<Guest94289>
i see
<kyak>
wolfspraul: since a lot of discussion is going on lately about 8:10 or ubb, or ben-wpan - is there any schedule when the new version of Ben might appear?
<wolfspraul>
you mean a whole device? (Ya NanoNote)
<kyak>
ah, so it's all coming for Ya NanoNote? then yes, i'
<kyak>
i'm speaking about Ya
<kyak>
(i though there going to be some Ben update first)
<wolfspraul>
no Ben update, and for the Ya we need a strong package and more business partners (distributors, marketing, etc)
<kyak>
ok, so there is no schedule so far?
<wolfspraul>
for sure we would want to include something like ben-wpan, but that's still quite a bit of work to make that work well, produce more, etc.
<wolfspraul>
definitely no schedule
<wolfspraul>
it's ready when it's ready? :-)
<wolfspraul>
my schedule is to sell more Ben, and make the Ben stronger. any of that strength will carry over to Ya. If someone else can do it faster, more power to them.
<wolfspraul>
it is still way too hard to update the software on Ben, and the connection between Ben and free data sources (music, maps, etc) is also basically non-existant today.
<kyak>
ok then :) have you thought about creating some kind of model line? i mean, right now there is Ben only, and it is the same for everyone. Then it's going to be Ya, but who know when
<kyak>
maybe you can do some minor update to Ben hardware, add some intersting feature, and create a model line?
<wolfspraul>
no, I will sell my stock of Ben, and if I can sell it out I will make more.
<kyak>
ok, i got your point
<wolfspraul>
we haven't found the sweet spot of product features, brand awareness, fulfilling customer demands yet.
<wolfspraul>
'blindly' adding new hardware features would be a guaranteed way to make the project fail, imho
<wolfspraul>
of course it can also fail if we don't do that, but hey, I try one way. others can try other ways :-)
<wolfspraul>
with 'blindly' adding I mean that I don't have strong enough real customer feedback for this or that feature.
<wolfspraul>
and that is because the business partners for ben are too weak, not willing to invest/order/etc. so we grow it slowly...
<wolfspraul>
the size of orders on my end has to go up, there must be tangible (real) interest in some features
<wolfspraul>
if you want to order 500 ben, we are talking :-)
<wolfspraul>
you pre-pay 50% when you order, the other 50% when I ship
<wolfspraul>
if I have a bunch of people where each says "I buy 1 if feature X (and Y and Z) are included", that's going nowhere
<wolfspraul>
sorry I meant if you want to order 500 ben+
<wolfspraul>
there are very good steps happening on both hw and sw side, I think. so I am patient and continuing.
<kyak>
ok, thanks for explanation!
<wolfspraul>
how about you? are you still using your nano? are you interested in bringing more functionality to it?
<wolfspraul>
I hope we can include the mplayer you worked on asap.
<wolfspraul>
actually I'm also wondering whether it's possible to turn the Ben into a voip client.
<wolfspraul>
I still fire up my old Mac and use Skype - bah. :-)
<kyak>
lately, my wife is using it more than me :) beeting the crap out of gottet (tetris) :) sometimes we fight, when i need to reflash it :)
<wolfspraul>
he, that doesn't sound too bad
<wolfspraul>
hopefully you still get your hands on it once in a while for polishing or more porting
<wolfspraul>
you have been very helpful on the internationalization side, for example (among other things)
<wolfspraul>
we need people like you for that...
<wolfspraul>
you just cannot do this in theory by turning on a few features (config options), and thinking you are done
<kyak>
mplayer is good.. i used to watch videos in car on a way home from work.. Now the traffic is a little better, so i can't watch videos
<wolfspraul>
needs a real user to uncover all small details
<wolfspraul>
another thing that is on my radar/wishlist is better scripting language support
<kyak>
sure, sure.. the latest fixes of iconv/gettext are already inside openwrt-packages
<wolfspraul>
I hope we have a set of 5-10 scripting languages that are well supported, meaning that they are configured well, and have actual users.
<wolfspraul>
I think right now there's a lot of loose ends on the scripting language side. we have enabled some, but the configuration options are essentially random, and I don't think many people use them, so the config options won't get better either.
<kyak>
yeah.. i use tcl from time to time, but not on Ben..
<kyak>
though i commited my .tclshrc :)
<wolfspraul>
is tcl on ben already? (I don't even know)
<wolfspraul>
do you think it is in an actually usable state?
<wolfspraul>
or just 'compiles and installs' quality :-)
<kyak>
yeah, it's usable and even in openwrt feeds
<wolfspraul>
with php we are now including some more modules, also pear although I don't know how/whether it works. pecl is another beast there, probably hard on Ben.
<wolfspraul>
I think the main problem with scripting languages is that we need people who are actively using them.
<kyak>
you know, the problem for me is that i can't do a lot of fun things offline
<wolfspraul>
if we have them, and get good feedback from them, it should get better fast. if we don't have them, whatever we do that language will most likely be a stub/empty promise in reality.
<kyak>
most of the time, Ben is connected to laptop via USB
<kyak>
when i'm offline, the best i can do is play games :)
<wolfspraul>
same for me. real offline is only listening to music and some note taking.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: you write this 37 min ago. what did they say ? :)
<tuxbrain>
patience mes ami, if he don't call back at in other 25 I will call him :)
<tuxbrain>
I was quite bussy on the phone today so maybe I was on a call when he does ...
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (scripting) for making scripting real fun, the keyboard needs a bit of a cleanup. most programming languages like special characters. their placement is a bit of a brain-twister.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (connectedness) maybe, "real work only when connected" is the way to go. or, rather, users behaving very different in connected and unconnected mode.
<kyak>
what a man! nothing can be left behind him hidden in scrollback :)
<wpwrak>
((-:C
<wpwrak>
nothing better than a fat backlog to start the day :)
<kyak>
so you admit that there is such thing as "the start of the day"? :)
<wpwrak>
that time after a multihour sleep period, between maybe 3am and noon local time. closes approximation i have :)
<wpwrak>
closesT
<kyak>
so now you admit that you actually sleep? :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: (kbd) actually, about 50% of what i want the ya for is a new keyboard :) i've become increasingly convinced of the general horridness of the two fn-like modifiers. and of course, if there's a change to kill the F# keys, it would be a shame to miss it :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: let's call it think afk, with the eyes closed:)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: didn't you upload a proposed layout somewhere?
<wolfspraul>
it's not linked from the ya page yet I think, I want to add the link
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: your explanations are great every time somebody gets in and ask "what is ben?" "should I buy a ben?" Somebody should take all your answers and put them on a FAQ wiki page. And about somebody buying many bens to help to grow the project: I am trying to catch that guy named sujan.. just to help this. I guess that this guy could buy those 500+ ben :) Really, and I am serioues about. Just that when he was asking me a lot of things I was very busy
<zrafa>
tuxbrain: you could help me to find that guy and you could sell 500+ bens in once
<zrafa>
tuxbrain: help/convince
<wolfspraul>
zrafa: sure I am convinced a real business opportunity (= real buyer) will emerge
<wolfspraul>
your help is VERY appreciated, we need to follow every serious lead
<wpwrak>
kyak: (localized) yes, i've been thinking of you :)
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: he is perfect I guess. If the things he was telling me are true
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: then he is some of those guy (real business)
<wpwrak>
kyak: my goal would be a) make the (current) layout more friendly, and b) make the keyboard more regular (only straight lines, etc.)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: the F keys would remain in that proposal?
<wpwrak>
kyak: with b), if should become easier to make custom keycaps. in the days of laser engraving, that can't be too difficult.
<kyak>
wpwrak: do you mean, all buttons are aligned in rows and columns?
<wolfspraul>
there were a bunch of proposals, I just want to link to them from the Ya page for now
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: IIRC he is a phd student.. and he is developing (with other students) one machine for poor countries which helps with education, very basic education. He showed me a machine doing that right now. And that machine has only 3 or 4 buttons and a speaker and mic
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: no more
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the F# keys go away. the F# key function would still be available. F1 would be fn+Space+Q
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: he is wanting to use a new machine with new software more powerful. And with screen nn has it would be better he told me. Moreover he likes the idea this hardware should be copyleft hardware
<wolfspraul>
ok I linked to the pdf
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: i need a better name for "fn" and "Fn", though. Fn = fn+Space would be the modifier that turns the top row into F# keys
<kyak>
wpwrak: oh, ok. yes, i think laser engaving is how it's usually done to make localized keyboards.. however, latin inscriptions have to be shifted a bit on the buttons
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: he said me they already has around 20+ nn for this project, so I guess that he was serious about
<wpwrak>
kyak: you see that there are only few exceptions. and all the new ones (space, enter) just span multiple single key cells
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: but the space for the F keys would still be there, you just want to keep that empty?
<wpwrak>
kyak: i left the cursor "diamond" for compatibility reasons. wouldn't mind scrapping that one, too.
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: if they already has 20+ nns then they are really working on that maybe. ANd of course, all his idea is for his phd. The big problem I saw is they do not have enought software skills, because he was doing me a lot of very basic software development questions, like "should I use gtk or sdl?". So I guessed that they are just starting
<wolfspraul>
your pdf only has 5 rows, but the ben keyboard has 6 rows (including F keys)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: i would cover it with plastic. the ya would have a new case, right ? :)
<kyak>
wpwrak: looking at it.. i guess there is a reason for not making lines straight
<kyak>
wpwrak: i guess it's for easier typing
<kyak>
wpwrak: ok, your layout leaves no space for putting of localized letters :)
<kyak>
maybe at least have some common symbols, like euro or umlauts?
<wpwrak>
kyak: my layout actually leaves a lot of space :) i don't use any fn+symbol combinations. so if you need more glyphs, you can start assigning these
<wpwrak>
kyak: if you just need different glyphs, move some of the existing ones
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: but well, for the requirements he needs I guessed that they needs a specific software for nn, able to record audio, play audio, show on screen some messages and stuff. I was thinking that he has a really great project, with a lot of nns for him and students, and finally, if we can help him with software side his foundation or whatever would buy surely a lot of nns to be real the project on poor countries.
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: the anwers was too long mail please ... where is the gerber file? lol
<wpwrak>
kyak: (umlauts) that's a software problem :) if you need umlauts occasionally, make them dead keys. so "ae" becomes " followed by a
<wpwrak>
;-))))
<kyak>
wpwrak: most of the buttons have two symbols, some have three. do you think there is enough space to put 1 or 2 more symbols?
<zrafa>
wolfspraul: Also, his project is not like OLPC .. no, they need a really basic machine. In fact, currently he showed me the current hardware being used. And that is just a tiny machine with just 3 buttons, nomore.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: oh, you just forwarded the mail. you're brutal ;-)
<kyak>
wpwrak: i don't mean from the software side. i mean, literally looking at keyboard and seeing what you are hgoing to type
<tuxbrain>
yes I have send a summarized mail with gerber, mesures, edge, and dri...
<wolfspraul>
tuxbrain: werner's mail is highly unusual
<wolfspraul>
this is not how the industry works, and how a 100 EUR business can be dealt with. let's see what they do :-)
<wolfspraul>
in the end that ubb is so brutally simple, you either just do it right away, or forget about it
<wolfspraul>
(I'm talking about the pcb maker, not you)
<tuxbrain>
yeah :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: are dead keys pretty straightforward ? probably cleaner than having a ' somewhere that's just a ', and then another ' that's an accent. or a bunch of accented characters scattered all over the place. i mean for the "default" keyboard.
<wolfspraul>
we have time to dwell over those things with ridiculous over-thinking over-engineering practices
<wolfspraul>
hardware and manufacturing is all about economics, not technology
<wolfspraul>
take the milkymist one rc2 run for example
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: to be honest, my mail wasn't meant for sending to the factory "as is". maybe the production part. but pcb fabs normally don't care about why and how you'd use it ;-)
<wolfspraul>
the magic is not that 34 boards out of 40 pass 100%, the magic is that all the work on the smt side was done for 40 USD / piece
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: oh sure, I know. that's what I'm saying.
<wolfspraul>
hardware/manufacturing is brutal, every minute disappears and every penny needs to be made _NOW_, or never. it's not software where you can get the rewards later.
<wolfspraul>
the factory will look at your mail like a message from another planet
<wolfspraul>
some alien culture
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<kyak>
wpwrak: i'm talking about layout switching. And thus having at least two layouts engraved on buttons (like in the link i gave above). Btw, why is curly/square brackets arrangement so strange? (not like on PC keyboard)
<wolfspraul>
in China/Taiwan there would simply be no reply at all
<wpwrak>
kyak: (braces) i think i started to run out of buttons :)
<kyak>
wpwrak: i mean the order. Opened and closed braces are usually near each other
<wpwrak>
kyak: i wanted the symbols normally on the top row to be more or less at the usual places. alas, our rows are not long enough for the upper right corner which has a lot of non-letter symbols on the pc keyboard
<wpwrak>
kyak: oh. i was following the existing ben design there. no strong preference on my part
<kyak>
ah, ok
<wpwrak>
zrafa: where are they deploying these devices ?
<wpwrak>
kyak: one could also make a case for reordering things in the Tab and Esc rows. e.g., move " and ' to the right and everything else a bit to the left.
<wpwrak>
kyak: for localized keyboards, i would try to make it so easy to produce them that one could just order them along with the ben. either as a pack or maybe as ben + one additional design.
<zrafa>
wpwrak: let me find some links
<wpwrak>
kyak: e.g., you could commit your whatever keyboard design in some ya-keyboards project. then it gets a bit of review to make sure it's technically correct. and then it could just become a choice in the shop. when someone orders, say, ya with klingon, they take a ya-generic box, put an empty keyboard into the laser engraver, run the klingon.keycaps job, put the klingon keyboard into the box as well, and off with it.
<kyak>
wpwrak: very cool :) easily replaceble keyboard designs
<wpwrak>
kyak: may not be possible to implement this on one leap (e.g., you'd need engraving capabilities close to the warehouse), but i think this should be a longer-term goal
<kyak>
wpwrak: yeah, then one could say instead of "take notes on the go" - "take notes in native language on the go" :)
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<kyak>
because frankly speaking, typing with Ben in cyrillic is a pain.. unless you use phonetic layout
<kyak>
which is not very convenient
<kyak>
so i usually just show wonders of blind typing :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: (pain) yeah, i can imagine. (blind typing) wow
<wpwrak>
regarding dead keys, you could also create a "compose" key that would work as  compose + sequence, e.g.,  compose e =  or compose = e  for Euro
<wpwrak>
so dead keys don't have to be dead keys all the time. depending on how frequently you use them
<kyak>
yup, i know this
<kyak>
wpwrak: (rows straight) this is really questionable if such buttons layout will make typing easier.. i think the rows are even shifted on all qwerty smartphones
<wpwrak>
kyak: you mean the columns. yeah, hard to say. but it's the most space-efficient and flexible approach :)
<kyak>
columns, sure :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: e.g., you could (probably - needs verifying) implement my Enter and Space keys with two standard key slots
<wpwrak>
kyak: so if someone needs more buttons, they could shrink space and enter
<kyak>
some keys can be 1.5 size. .then you could still be space efficient
<wpwrak>
kyak: only if you have two next to each other. and then you'd have an ambiguous middle position.
<wpwrak>
kyak: if you start shifting rows by fractional positions, you lose buttons
<wpwrak>
kyak: well, potential buttons. you could shift my Esc...Enter row and lose nothing, at the cost of no longer being able to shrink Enter
<kyak>
wpwrak: for example, make Enter 1.5 size, and align its row right. then all buttons will be shifted
<kyak>
maybe 1.75 even
<wpwrak>
i'm not sure the shifting really matters so much. the keyboard is quite small, so you won't have many fingers on it anyway
<kyak>
you'll only know when you try :)
<zrafa>
tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak :Â Â the guy who will buy 500+ bens (I write that so you read what I write :) ) is working/phd at itc4d (http://www.ict4d.org.uk/). His project is : "Open Platform - Offline Mobile Learning for ICT4D : Using open hardware/software - delivering mobile learning offline in a developing country, considering the poor information infrastructure, unavailability of electricity and the problems of network connectivity, network latency,
<wpwrak>
for O(2) fingers use, a clean square matrix works quite well.
<wpwrak>
zrafa: yes ! finally someone who won't ask for wifi !!! ;-)
<zrafa>
tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : he was asking me a lot about how to write sdl or gtk applications for nn.
<tuxbrain>
tell him to be free to talk wit us :) , if he pretends to buy 500+ he is actully rise to the status of "friend of soul" or blood-brother or his wife if he want :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: i think what helps a lot is to keep the layout clean. many small devices have horribly crowded keyboard. so whenever you don't remember a key, you're lost for a while.
<kyak>
wpwrak: replaceble/customized keyboards is a key. I liked this idea a lot!
<zrafa>
tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : they already have around 20+ nns for their project
<tuxbrain>
ok I know him :)
<tuxbrain>
or at least one of his dudes on his university.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: already have that "20 bens" order hanging at the wall ? :)
<zrafa>
tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : so that is no just an idea.. I guess that they are working on that. They want to do something with nn to replace another machine. Let me find some link of that machine (which is currently being used on some countries for offline learning)
<tuxbrain>
with caoba frame and specialy lighted :)
<wpwrak>
*grin*
<kyak>
hm..i guess if i need the second Ben i need to hurry before indians buy it all!
<zrafa>
tuxbrain: wolfspraul : wpwrak : I guess that they will not but 500+ nns if they do not do anything with the current ones. For his questions he was very far. For example, he needs just to know how to write a tiny application for nn (using sdl, gtk, whatever) to show a menu with 3 options. Or how to record and play sound. Simple stuff. SO I guess that they need some help on software side before their project sucess and they buy 1xxxx nns.
<zrafa>
For his questions= From his questions
<wpwrak>
zrafa: they should talk to the CS department of their university. universities are a place where great quantities of cheap slave labour are readily available. turn those things into semester projects. post them to the CS students. voila.
<wpwrak>
well, he is actually CS, isn't he ? so, even easier
<wpwrak>
yeah. computing and technology
<zrafa>
wpwrak: I think so. But well, I would like to bring up again his name and that he has a project which would be from my point of view the the most important use case for nn. As offline learning machine. And with that, the idea about he/university/foundation could need 500+ bens for that :)
<wpwrak>
zrafa: oh, i agree. i'm just thinking of the "what does he need from our side" case
<zrafa>
wpwrak: at least, he is trying to use the nn for something real, no just to play music and use bc
<kyak>
btw, i nice idea to have simple "hello world" guides for sdl/gtk/qt development in wiki
<zrafa>
wpwrak: and also he is not asking for wifi(c) for his project.
<wpwrak>
zrafa: on sw, he shouldn't need much. maybe he could invite you to come over for a week or two to give a seminar ? :) introduction to jlime, gui programming, all that
<wpwrak>
zrafa: london in late spring/summer wouldn't be too bad
<zrafa>
wpwrak: If he will buy many nns I go free :)
<wpwrak>
zrafa: travel money and equipment are different items in the budget ;-)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: but well, I was encouraging him to talk more on this or jlime channel.
<zrafa>
wpwrak: and also, I have not had news from him since december
<wpwrak>
zrafa: maybe they're busy coding ;) well, couldn't hurt to ping him then, just to see how things are going
<kyak>
zrafa: according to logs, he has been here 2010-11-01 (Monday):
<wpwrak>
kyak: nothing escapes the all-seeing eye of qi-bot ;-)
<kyak>
wpwrak: qi-bot and you :)
<kyak>
actually, i suggested to have stats/seens here long ago.. would have been a useful feature
<zrafa>
wpwrak: yeah.. maybe they do not have time to talk :)
<wpwrak>
kyak: maybe send wolfgang a patch ? ideally not just a patch for the ever growing to do list ;-)
<wpwrak>
imagines wolfgang's work environment. some small dark room, a simple table, a laptop, a lamp. this is where all his work is. the room has door to the rest of the apartment, also small and austere. and another door. the other door leads to a multistory complex of breathtaking technology. like the "plant" in "forbidden planet". that's the storage system where he keeps the to do list.
<kyak>
wpwrak: i could do this myself, it's not that hard. Only need access to the bot :) or maybe a separate bot, to live on fidelio
<wpwrak>
kyak: you should ask wolfgang then. he's quite open with giving access to things
<kyak>
wpwrak: sure,
<kyak>
wolfspraul: what do you think about having a stats/seen bot on fidelio?
<wpwrak>
grmbl. this is a week of tuesdays. monday, i felt as if it was already tuesday. today, i feel as if it should still be tuesday.
<kyak>
hm.. i was about to sat that it IS tuesday today!
<kyak>
*to say
<wpwrak>
;-))
<wolfspraul>
kyak: I'm not a friend of bots, but you surely can do it yourself, if you like
<wolfspraul>
email me your public key and I get you root access on the server
<wolfspraul>
after that, if you make configuration changes to eggdrop, please update the server_setup document
<kyak>
wolfspraul: if it is fidelio (build host), i'm already there
<wolfspraul>
you can also tell me what you did and I update it, if the formatting is unusual for you
<wolfspraul>
I don't know what you plan exactly, but I hope you can just configure the existing eggdrop to do this as well
<wolfspraul>
it might be as easy as a few lines in the config file
<wolfspraul>
fidelio is a pure 'cache' buildhost type machine, no backup
<kyak>
if the modules are isntalled already, then yes, it's the matter of config files
<wolfspraul>
all of the active and data generating (i.e. backed up) stuff is running on turandot
<wolfspraul>
fidelio just to offload some load, schhist, buildhost, etc.
<kyak>
ok then, i'll send you the pub key and document the changes
<wolfspraul>
ok if your key is on fidelio, I can just copy it over
<wolfspraul>
well I have it already, let me check...
<wolfspraul>
sebastien may have made some changes to log #milkymist, without updating the server setup document
<wolfspraul>
I'm quite radical with this kind of changes - next time I get to it it will be reverted to the state of the document
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
I have managed servers far too long to accept server setups where even 1 tiny bit of configuration setting is not documented.
<wolfspraul>
in other words - if you run into some config that is not documented like that, don't hesitate to revert to the documentation
<wolfspraul>
the documentation is right
<wolfspraul>
when you are done, either you or me can update the doc
<wolfspraul>
to avoid that next time I upgrade something, your changes are lost
<kyak>
wolfspraul: i'm there :)
<kyak>
ok, got your point about documenting
<wolfspraul>
(to be nice, I will try to update the documentation and not rip out stuff done by others without documentation on purpose. but my patience in understanding undocumented stuff is limited)
<wolfspraul>
if it's still in use, whoever did it will speak up fairly quickly, and then it can be redone and documented properly as well :-)
<kyak>
sure, sure :)
<kyak>
btw, i think i will follow the same path next time i reinstall my server
<wolfspraul>
I've tried to use automated ways like a diff from the installed baseline.
<wolfspraul>
but mostly a simple text file is by far the best way to document what was installed, why this or that setting was changed, etc.
<wolfspraul>
the only downside is that it requires some discipline in keeping the real server and the text file in sync
<kyak>
currently, i use rpm facilities for that.. it can track changed configuration files
<wolfspraul>
sure, that is also good
<wolfspraul>
it could make the documentation shorter
<dvdk>
i've been using SVN for managing server configs.
<dvdk>
one Makefile w/ 'make install' to update the system config to the version in the SVN dir
<wolfspraul>
there you go, another option :-)
<dvdk>
makes it easy to test changes: just install the config locally and test
<dvdk>
many subdirs, for different programs etc.  so I  can partially install updated stuff
<dvdk>
plus: SVN log replaces all your other documentation :)
<kyak>
pretty good, yes
<dvdk>
and... you easily see what's important.  i hate having to grep or search through /etc/ to find out what parts are non-standard
<kyak>
wolfspraul: ok, the gseen/stats modules are not there, will have to build them manually
<wolfspraul>
hmm, really not there?
<wolfspraul>
it's a standard debian eggdrop package, no?
<wolfspraul>
maybe just install a few tcl files?
<kyak>
nah, these are third party modules
<kyak>
don't worry, i'll handle it :)
<wolfspraul>
ha, since you are near there, can you also add a capability for the bot to maintain a list of nicks that are not logged?
<wolfspraul>
and a way to query the bot for the list?
<wolfspraul>
or maybe if that's not safe at least every nick should be able to query its own logging status privately, and enable/disable
<wolfspraul>
I would go for an opt-out model, but if someone doesn't like the logging they can send a message to the bot and exclude themselves.
<kyak>
this could make logs useless at all
<kyak>
like some people could be speaking with themselves :)
<kyak>
or the other way around, the missing messages could be reversed-engineered
<kyak>
in fact, i have some experience with eggdrops/tcl, so if you think about some cool things, it is possible to do that
<wolfspraul>
it's totally up to you
<kyak>
let's start with stats/seen thing
<mirko>
kyak: oh, yeah - indeed
<mirko>
kyak: however that's the way to do it then
<mirko>
kyak: (referring to the changes to qstardict you made)
<rjeffries>
mirko: forgive me, which of the two mirkos are you? ;)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: the other one ;-)
<rjeffries>
I knew someone whould be a SMARTASS <grin>
<rjeffries>
wpwrak you NEVER dissapoint
<rjeffries>
is there now a ~single~ document of UBB PCB fab specs one might send to a pcfab "consultant?"
<kristianpaul>
ask tuxbrain ;-)
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: i really want to see the gui concept this phd stunend have in mind
<tuxbrain>
I had just send the gerber , the measures, the edge and the drill file
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: did you also specify the board material, thickness, and surface finish ? particularly the thickness is important
<wpwrak>
(0.8 mm)
<tuxbrain>
yes
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: actually i know some people from sugar labs, i wonder if he is linked or aware of this kind of sofware projects related to learning process, i really want hear his comments about it
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: if you want to send a lot of stuff, you'd send the "Industrially producing UBB" section. maybe remove things that are clearly background, like the disclaimer.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (plus the drill file)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: if you want to send something a pcb fab can use directly, without the consultant making detail decisions for you, you'd read through the mail and process the decisions as they are outlined. then either pass them on, or just prepare an answer and wait if they need one.
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: i agree bc and play music is not the _real_world_ use case
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: wait and see has the benefit that you won't over-specify the board, possibly requesting details you don't actually care about but that make it harder to produce it
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: (board thickness) perfect
<rjeffries>
is tuxbrain awake? I'll be damned. ;)
<rjeffries>
tuxbarin, a serious question, sir: if you produce UBB, and sell in europe for price X (tbd)
<rjeffries>
how hard will it be to ship to USA?
<tuxbrain>
I bet the shipping cost will not compesate unless you want some big qty
<tuxbrain>
but we will find out if you wish I must move
<tuxbrain>
go
<rjeffries>
I recently had good luck on mail foorm USA to Sweden
<rjeffries>
cheap and fast
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: is the idea for your "pcb fab consultant" to choose the fab and communicate with them ? or to advise you ? or do you mean that the "consultant" is actually the fab's person who accepts new orders ?
<rjeffries>
tuxbrain I look forward to you producing UBB. prolly will be able to purchase in quantity from Span and make available to my peeps
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: for the quanitities you need for a reasonable price point, shipping shouldn't be such a big deal. after all, people order prototype pcbs in china.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak "consultant" was a big word for a simple idea. a friend who has designed a VDSL2 box for
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: "consultant" ah, okay. just send him the two mails then and tell him to skip all the stuff at the top of the first mail
<rjeffries>
knows a guy who has intimate knowledge of pcb fab. since I have cursory knowledge only
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (or read it only if he's got time to kill ;-)
<rjeffries>
I hope that as a friend he will give me a freebie 15 minutes of advice
<rjeffries>
I will start out with only teling him the helicopter view
<rjeffries>
size of pcb
<rjeffries>
number of layers
<rjeffries>
thickness
<rjeffries>
critical dimensions
<rjeffries>
number if vias
<rjeffries>
finish
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: what is is :)
<rjeffries>
not sure what that means sorry. (I am serious)
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: try filling the quote form at batchpcb.com later take care of details
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: that it's a little board that goes into those receptacles that are marketed as "microsd card holders"
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: batchpcb only seem to do 1.6 mm boards
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: no need to know what means just copy and paste values
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: ouch
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul I actually do know what most of it means, but this is not my area of expertise
<rjeffries>
I am mainly a wanker ;)
<rjeffries>
I'll make a few calls/emails today
<kristianpaul>
just give values and pay that all what they care about you as a customer
<kristianpaul>
claim later !
<wpwrak>
wonders what that "career" ladder wuold be - wanker, fucker, pimp ? :)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak part oof carer requires being a PITA to bright creative visionary risk-takers like wolfsproul
<rjeffries>
I hav eexhausted that phase, it takes too much of my LIMITED mental energy. ;)
<kristianpaul>
hwo old are you then?
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: they are wanting to replace a machine which does not do anything :P.. so they are not designing a GUI for users
<kristianpaul>
(sorry for asking personal info)
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: gui -> buttons?
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: they just need a machine which does the same than before.. (the before machine just play words, and records sound)
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: yes
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: is not that tooo expreme ?
<zrafa>
3 buttons
<kristianpaul>
exTreme*
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: well, of course. If they are going to use the nn then they want to use the screen at least (he told me)
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: previous machines does not have screen
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: phewww
<rjeffries>
kristiuanpaul was question for me?
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: yes
<rjeffries>
I am (are you sitting down)???
<kristianpaul>
yes
<rjeffries>
old enough to be either your father or grandfather. how old are you sir? <smile>
<kristianpaul>
wow
<kristianpaul>
well, i'm 23
<rjeffries>
if I spound young, you have given me a GREAT comliment
<kristianpaul>
you do,
<rjeffries>
in another 20 years you will be the age of my son. ;)
<rjeffries>
I suspect (with high degree of certantity) I am the LEAST young person who follows the qi-hardware community
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul, you j=have mad emy day. I am serious. yes I am playful, but it hides a serious level
<rjeffries>
s/made emy/made my/
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: ah thats the machine to record/play sound?, i remenber  now from #jlime before
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: You own a Ben right?
<rjeffries>
I suggest wolfsproul write new rules that nobody under og, 40 yrs of age is allowed to participate
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul now you as a SENSITIVE question
<kristianpaul>
huh?
<rjeffries>
no, I do not personally own a Ben. a close friend bought one because I showed it]
<rjeffries>
to our linus users group
<rjeffries>
I can use his when if I need to
<rjeffries>
but I will buy at some point
<rjeffries>
I am a person who is NOT the deep hacker Ben appeals (mainly) to
<larsc>
"linus user group" :)
<rjeffries>
I have waited for software stability and functionalityu
<rjeffries>
s/linus/Linux  I make many typos, I confess
<kristianpaul>
larsc: ;)
<rjeffries>
I have offered a group buy to my friends, too soon to see. only two people say yes so far
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (age of consent for qi-hw at 40) i don't see wolfgang do this for a while :)
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: you shoukd buy one or own it not for a while, you feed back will be wellcome
<rjeffries>
I figured wolfsproul at 30 something
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: as you seems to care in sofware end user side isnt?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: which would make it a self-excluding move :)
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul I am close to buying one that is why I attemp to organize a group buy
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: are you in the USA?
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul I care about software yes. bt I have a passion for sensors/actuators etc and see Ben as a cool little "main node" for such a system
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: if, already talked with djbclark ? freedom-included?
<rjeffries>
yes live in California USA
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: do you have an arduino?
<rjeffries>
I know of djbclark. at one point he was going to become distributor (sorta kinda) for sharism
<rjeffries>
I do not know if he did
<rjeffries>
I have easy access to arduino
<rjeffries>
do not own yet
<kristianpaul>
hmm
<rjeffries>
by the way I am a software guy sorta kinda who loves hardware but is not an EE
<kristianpaul>
are you really interested in own something. you said you like sensors/actuators but you dint have even an arduino?
<rjeffries>
Ben software is now getting ti a level of maturity that I will invest $125 (with shipping)
<kristianpaul>
wow !
<kristianpaul>
goood :)
<mirko>
rjeffries: Mirko Vogt :)
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul God bless you, but i do not need to defend what I like or do. I have a wide range of activities. I write a book, I publish a newsletter, I am an avide photographer I even have a REAL darkroom (not used much but now and then)
<rjeffries>
hello Mr Vogt, You have ben missed on the qi list. By me. Nobody else even noticed you had dissapeared. [smile]
<rjeffries>
no I also have not ordered a Milkymist. I will someday. not now. ;) It is a very excitity project
<mirko>
rjeffries: yeah, i have been quite busy an didn't follow the list regularly :/
<rjeffries>
s/excitity/exciting
<kristianpaul>
ok tell us when you got your Ben, i really want read your comments when having it around, not just borrow ;-)
<mirko>
rjeffries: will do so in the evening, after finishing my post about the rfm12 <-> NN stuff
<rjeffries>
mirko, I was kidding. understood.
<kristianpaul>
mirko: rfm12 !! :D
<rjeffries>
oh yes wolfsproul did mention you had onebles and were playing with HopeRF of his Frankenca
<mirko>
wpwrak: soldered in onto the back of the board
<wpwrak>
mirko: aah ! how far does it go ?
<mirko>
wpwrak: it's just for testing - not optimized for best transfer
<mirko>
wpwrak: works in my room so far, however if you use a lambda/2 antenna you get quite more out of it
<rjeffries>
Mirko, that is a thing of beauty. more or less. ;)
<mirko>
wpwrak: but that's 17cm which i didn't wanna take with me all the time moving around
<rjeffries>
so mirko do you already have it talking to light switches etc?
<mirko>
rjeffries: yep
<mirko>
rjeffries: more or less finished :)
<rjeffries>
COOL BEANS
<mirko>
will write a summary / post about it
<mirko>
and publish it in the evening
<mirko>
with all the urls to the driver module / userspace software / uis i wrote
<rjeffries>
Now we need to get this info to Jean Paul at JeeLabs he has a LOT of boards that will be interesting
<wpwrak>
mirko: (room without a proper antenna) that's a good start
<rjeffries>
also he can promote Ben as a central point for his stuff.
<rjeffries>
THAT is why I have been urging that Tcl be wel supported
<rjeffries>
be is a cool dude. I have exchanged emails with him several times
<rjeffries>
Jean-Claude Wippler  JeeLabs  jcw@equi4.com Libes in Houten, a village near Utrecht in the middle of the Netherlands,
<larsc>
wpwrak: mirko also as kernel patches for spi support on the mmc pins, so i guess that should be a good start for the uart board
<rjeffries>
I am not positive he uses HopeRF, maybe a competing radio
<mirko>
wpwrak: it's just ASK, don't know how it behaves when transmitting via FM
<roh>
hey mirko
<mirko>
hey roh :)
<mirko>
need to grab some food now - didn't eat anything yet today :( - see ya later...
<wpwrak>
larsc: very good. does it handle handover from the mmc driver, too ?
<larsc>
i don't think so
<mirko>
wpwrak: not yet, but shouldn't be too difficult
<larsc>
you can either bind the mmc or the spi driver
<mirko>
larsc: i found some examples
<mirko>
larsc: which act as wrappers
<mirko>
they bind to the pins, but handle different devices
<mirko>
anyway, i'm off for the next half an hour...
<zrafa>
rjeffries: and are you telling that tcl does not work?
<rjeffries>
zarfa I have asked on list (I do not have a Ben) and did not get a solid answer
<dvdk>
zrafa, rjeffries: what's the problenm with tcl?  you mean tcl on nanonote?
<dvdk>
s/zrafa/zarfa/
<lekernel>
those little piezos are amazing... i'm sending half a watt into one, and it doesn't break and makes a nice vibration
<kyak>
mirko: no problem for me to do it in qt apps Makefiles.. i just don't understand why some qt apps need it, and some don;t
<kyak>
guess it depends on their .pro files...
<lekernel>
interesting to notice that it handles low frequencies pretty well, e.g. you could get better bass in a laptop using them
<lekernel>
(that's some 200 volts p/p...)
<kristianpaul>
what do you need that piezos, generate sound?
<lekernel>
actuate a tuning rod into a DRO to modulate its frequency
<lekernel>
but i'm also happily surprised with the sound quality you get by pressing said piezo into a hard and large surface
<lekernel>
i'm using my computer soundcard to generate the waveforms, which then feeds a computer speaker amplifier with the speaker replaced with the piezo and a power supply transformer mounted backwards to adapt the impedance a bit (and step up the voltage)
<lekernel>
so I can easily play music as well
<lekernel>
the DRO thingy is part of a cheap doppler radar module (www.edparadis.com/radar)Â Â and I want to see what I can do with it
<mirko>
which creates a Makefile from nanomap.pro inside the src dir
<dvdk>
mirko: didn't even know openwrt had qmake support.
<kyak>
mirko: you can check the Makefile, i call the Qmake
<kyak>
however, not all paths are exported correctly
<kyak>
or exported at all
<kyak>
anyway, i found these workaround to work
<dvdk>
yeah, spend quite some time rgrepp'ing over the openwrt .mk files last time I tried to port a cmake project.  strange that i didn't hit the Qmake.mk at that time
<mirko>
kyak: we should try to make it generic i think
<kyak>
mirko: definitely we should
<rjeffries_>
speaking of piezos: I used to work at a p;ace that made areally  range of piezo devices. including the stuff used in submarines to locate various things such as other submarines
<mirko>
every change which is an improvement and does not break any other qt project i commit into OpenWrt immediatly
<rjeffries_>
the whole area of transducers is fascinating. manufacturing process is almost black magic
<dvdk>
mirko: kyak: any objections against adding a cmake.mk to openwrt/include, then.  could simplify the plplot/Makefile quite a lot.  also i have some more cmake based projects on my todo list
<kristianpaul>
Ayla: good for youu !
<kristianpaul>
bad for us...
<Ayla>
kristianpaul: well, maybe it demonstrates that it is not a hardware bug
<kyak>
dvdk: cmake.mk is already backported to backfire.. just waiting for xiangfu or someone else to merge it into our branch
<Ayla>
does it occur every time? Maybe I was just lucky
<kyak>
need the git super powers for that
<mirko>
dvdk: if it works i'd like to commit it to OpenWrt upstream
<dvdk>
kyak: ok, then all the headaches were for nothing :)
<mirko>
so we reduce the diff between OpenWrt and the qi-branch
<kyak>
mirko: is already commited
<kristianpaul>
Ayla: still not demostrate as dingux have different IC
<rjeffries_>
I assume one or more of you guys are fluent in grep or awk?
<rjeffries_>
don't everyone raise your hands all at same time
<rjeffries_>
;)
<dvdk>
has written lengthly sed scripts
<dvdk>
rjeffries_: so that should mostly translate to grep
<rjeffries_>
dvdk indeed
<dvdk>
nice.
<kristianpaul>
!ping
<kristianpaul>
hides
<kyak>
ok, it haz stats/gseen noqw
<kristianpaul>
lol
<rjeffries_>
dvdk I am NOt flunet and am not at this moment using Linux. I know I am an EVIL man
<kristianpaul>
!google nanonote
<kristianpaul>
:p
<rjeffries_>
dvdk accepting that sad fact, would yoy hack a quick script and run this log through it and only print lines conatining http: or https: so I can find links easily
<kristianpaul>
kyak: what else it can do now?
<dvdk>
rjeffries_: you mean 'grep 'http:\|https:' ?
<rjeffries_>
qi-bot? I thought wolfspraul was asleep for sure
<kyak>
kristianpaul: nothing else :)
<rjeffries_>
whatever I do not have grep avail right now and need to chase down links in this long log
<Mauro_R>
!cook
<Mauro_R>
:-P
<rjeffries_>
dvdl PLEASE do not tell anybody that at this moment I am using a Vista lappie I would be so embarassed
<rjeffries_>
and wolfspraul may permanently ban me, I dunno
<dvdk>
rjeffries_: there's a cure: install cygwin :)
<Mauro_R>
jaja ... u r using Vista ....
<wpwrak>
!top1000
<kristianpaul>
jaja
<rjeffries_>
I have other wasy Vbox with Ubuntu and it dual boots Ubuntu so if nobody will take 30 sec to do this favor I will do it later
<kyak>
wpwrak: if you are not seeing yourself in top10, you can use !top20 :)
<kristianpaul>
top 10 words or niicks?
<kyak>
words
<kristianpaul>
can i avoid nicks?
<kristianpaul>
s/i/it
<kyak>
what do you mean?
<kristianpaul>
!top50
<rjeffries_>
Mauro Vista is not the horrible OS everyone assumes but in Microsoft land Wui 7 is far better
<wpwrak>
kyak: the s/foo/bar/ is missing ! :)
<wpwrak>
almost ! ;-)
<kristianpaul>
jajaj
<kyak>
wpwrak is #1 in smileys
<wpwrak>
oh dear ;-)
<kristianpaul>
xD
<wpwrak>
does it recognize this one too ? (-:C
<kyak>
kristianpaul: if you mean not counting stats for specific user, it can be done
<rjeffries_>
what is argumanet to Top20??
<kristianpaul>
kyak: ah, i got , word count per nick, i tought was words in general top
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: that's the whole board, not just the USB side
<rjeffries_>
wpwrak. would you take my email, edit it then I can stand on your shoulders.
<rjeffries_>
I did not send to wolfspraul because he may not like what I am trying to do.
<rjeffries_>
I have already sent the email but will GLADY send a correcetd reworded even better more awesome email
<rjeffries_>
I do nt understand JLime. In general Ben shares with OpenMoko the :many distros" bessing and curse
<tuxbrain>
kyak: well in my old days of irc addict when I was young , the bot can give you special powers like kick and ban, I guess if qi-bot can do that but surelly ChanServ is the one that can do so
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: jlime is an openembedded derivate. originally for the hp jornada, but has since been ported to other portable devices, including the ben nanonote
<kyak>
tuxbrain: sure bot can do these and many other things. For now it only has stats/seen powers :)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: thanks to openembedded, it has about ten times as many packages as openwrt. (not all of them are truly useful, of course - some exist but are just too big)
<tuxbrain>
!help
<tuxbrain>
no list of commands?
<wpwrak>
kyak: it could use an AI that detects when someone speaks badly about the bot and remembers it. then, sample the message timing in relation to message length. once you have a good correlation, wait for the moment just before a particularly long message would be sent. then kick :)
<wpwrak>
!?
<rjeffries_>
wpwrak I had no idea re Jlime
<wpwrak>
not the unix way either
<tuxbrain>
hahahaaha
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: zrafa did quite a lot of work to make it run nicely on the ben
<kyak>
tuxbrain: yeah, perhaps some basic help should be shown...
<rjeffries_>
tuxbrain when will your UBB pcbs be finished?
<tuxbrain>
it's fun becaus eit's true
<tuxbrain>
rjeffries_: well first they have to be quoted :)
<rjeffries_>
what is a short answer to how OpenERt Jlime and Debian compare on Ben
<kyak>
wpwrak: then we need to call it qi-bitch :)
<roh>
apples onions and potatos
<rjeffries_>
tivbrain I am just having a little fun. I thought you would have them done next week
<roh>
things are much too complex for simple comparisons
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: openwrt most compact, limited choice of packages. jlime large choice of packages. not sure how the two compare today in terms of user experience. jlime used to be far ahead but openwrt has tried to catch up.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: debian seems to be more a proof of concept. probably would need some major effort to trim it down and make it run efficiently. i also don't know what user interface they have.
<rjeffries_>
that helps a lot
<tuxbrain>
don't hold your breath, you know in spain we take things a little bit more... relaxed... thing that is not quite fun sometimes but well at the end you get used to it
<rjeffries_>
I wish sharism could di a simple online survey to see how many Ben owners use which distro, with option of also saying their Ben is not in active use
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: jlime also has a very friendly cross-development environment, with the ability to install precompiled packages directly into the cross-development environment. not sure where openwrt is in this regard.
<tuxbrain>
and you are lucky that I'm from barcelona, quite north, the more south more relaxed
<rjeffries_>
tuxbrain it is almost time for my siesta right now. ;))
<tuxbrain>
hahahaha :) lucky you man, happy nap
<rjeffries_>
how is the wine in your region tuxbrain
<rjeffries_>
tuxbrain I have not time for a siesta b ut it is a MOST EXCELLENT idea
<wpwrak>
in the south, they still have bedpans, so they don't have to get out of bed just for urinating :)
<tuxbrain>
we have some quite good,  priorat I think is the best, but there are some good Penedes or Terra Alta  also you can see a more in deep analisys of catalonian wines here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_wine
<xMff>
...
<wpwrak>
seems that we can keep the old stop lists for a bit longer :)
<wpwrak>
heh :)
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: rjeffries_4 more used word :) hehehe
<steve|m>
to the a of you is in it and i
<wpwrak>
"you the more can that well" so yoda
<tuxbrain>
lol
<rjeffries_>
!words rjeffries
<tuxbrain>
sorry rjeffries_ only works with NN owners :P
<rjeffries_>
that is so damn funny. you are a genius
<kyak>
stares at wpwrak
<kyak>
..and it's sleeping time
<wpwrak>
hah ! :)
<tuxbrain>
wolfgang, lekernel, wpwrak, larsc, roh, kristianpaul, mirko, Ornotermes and sometimes B_Lizzard are genius , I'm just a spaniard with good wine, sun and better food  so sense of humor come easy :)
<tuxbrain>
conclusion wpwrak should invest a little more time in "phisical" world
<kristianpaul>
good wide, i dont know nothing about wines... :/
<kristianpaul>
s?wide/wine
<wpwrak>
i smell a bug :)
<kristianpaul>
ha !
<wpwrak>
bah. now it calls me an egomaniac
<kristianpaul>
lol
<kristianpaul>
bug indeed
<tuxbrain>
sooo I think is just configured to keep an eye on you wpwrak
<wpwrak>
everything gets attributed to me
<tuxbrain>
ouch
<wpwrak>
!exec /n paparazzi-bot
<kristianpaul>
test
<wpwrak>
maybe it needs a bit of time
<wpwrak>
see ?
<kristianpaul>
lol
<kristianpaul>
i give up
<kristianpaul>
burn the bot!
<xMff>
heh
<wpwrak>
villagers unite ! down with the evil machine !
<tuxbrain>
I would like to see wolfgangs face when he reads the logs when he wakes up , lol
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: the best thing is that neither the commands now the responses show up in the public log, making it even more mysterious :)
<tuxbrain>
loooool
<kristianpaul>
!topword
<tuxbrain>
now being serious for a while, it should be better if command an replies only shown to the requester , isn't it?
<kristianpaul>
yeah
<kristianpaul>
i triedn by /msg but it dint reply
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain: +1
<wpwrak>
of course, everyone would still see the command ...
<dvdk>
huh, what's that: after updating I now get hundreds of errors a la "ERROR: please fix feeds/qipackages/*" for almost all packages.
<dvdk>
ok, solved: had only updated openwrt-packages.git, and not openwrt-xburst.git (have a custom feeds.conf that uses local openwrt-xburst.git checkout)
<kristianpaul>
steve|m: he, you could not resist :D
<kristianpaul>
hmm Qt, i forgot that one
<zrafa>
wpwrak: tuxbrain : which is the program you use to edit videos?.. (and where you put messages on videos)
<tuxbrain>
beatifull 4mins video of fosdem, waiting for non-comercial clause those no tight to a company in his blogs please promote it , I have asked (or annoyed) the author to know the licence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPh0lhL_Nx8
<lekernel>
milkymist presentation: http://blip.tv/file/4433721 (with some flickernoise walk-through near the end)
<lekernel>
(not the fosdem one)
<tuxbrain>
zrafa: I use Openshot, and prepare the subtitles directly on Inkscape, openshots have some templates but usually doesnt fit on what I want.
<tuxbrain>
lekernel: you where filmed by fosdem at your conf? will be your fosdem speach aviable?
<lekernel>
yeah, I was filmed. I don't know when they release the videos
<lekernel>
my experience with nerd conferences is that they release them late because the pressure of the event just dropped
<lekernel>
haha, and the video ends with a BSoD :)
<lekernel>
so typical :)
<lekernel>
as if GNU/Linux never crashes :)
<lekernel>
at fosdem 2012 i'll ask that guy to use a picture of GCC crashing instead
<tuxbrain>
well any powered on sistem can fail... is matter on frequiency :P
<lekernel>
(atm, the gcc tree doesn't even compile for lm32 with a xgcc segfault, and I'm pretty pissed off about that)
<tuxbrain>
and also is not the same to hang a compile proccess that the whole system , but whatever nobody says linux is perfect, but there are systems less perfects by far :)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: great, thanks. I can not install any of them :P .. debian testing needs to fix some dependences before
<wpwrak>
zrafa: :-( kdenlive installs without trouble on ubuntu ...
<zrafa>
wpwrak: yeah.. but because I use debian testing (which is useful because you never needs to do an upgrade between distros) it also has this kind of problems.. at some moments testing is not able to install some packages because those are being worked
<zrafa>
wpwrak: so using debian testing you are in the middle of latest latest version of every software and stable debian version. If I had debian stable of course everything would install, but I will miss some latest version of many packages
<zrafa>
that is why I choose debian testing, so I know I have always very new version of packages, still if sometimes there are problems (I just need to wait some days surely and all will work)
<zrafa>
no today gggrrr
<wpwrak>
well, as long as they fix things quickly ...
<xMff>
didn't they release recently? I suppose a lot of new stuff is flooding testing now
<steve|m>
"If you live on Mars and can't get a four layer board manufactured, Ubertooth Zero is a two layer alternative."
<Ironicus>
don't know if I am in the good channel, just saw the word "hardware", but I just wanna know the model of my motherboard to download the damn driver. I got many numbers, there is asus and intel
<Ironicus>
well too much possibilities for me
<kristianpaul>
wrong channel sorry Ironicus
<kristianpaul>
but you can try asking on #electronics
<kristianpaul>
Is a topic most close to your needs i think
<Ironicus>
ty
<kristianpaul>
s/most/more
<kristianpaul>
I wonder if this hardware questions are google fault? (may be qi-hardware is the top of searches about hardware now days ;-))