Topic for #qi-hardware is now Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs
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<viric> the wiki is a big presentation card of the nanonote. :)
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<qi-bot> Gerard Braad — 吉拉德: @jukkaeklund @Harkison well... this is the advantage the Roku and AI have, but boxes can be produced easily. @qihardware has experience ( 156328564399144960@gbraad - 13s ago via web )
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<Ayla> any network experts here?
<viric> lots, but at lunch time
<Ayla> ok, fixed
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<tradej> hi guys!
<tradej> i have been working for some time on fedora and came to find this whole open-source hardware thing pretty interesting. does any of you know how to get ben nanonote in the czech republic (amazon doesn't ship it directly and i don't really want to use a middleman)
<viric> tradej: I think tuxbrain sells to the whole europe
<tradej> viric: oh, thank you, i'll check it out
<wolfspraul> tradej: yes, tuxbrain, definitely
<wolfspraul> what part of open-source hardware interests you?
<wolfspraul> if you are curious, I can also recommend following the Qi planet at http://en.qi-hardware.com/planet
<tradej> wolfspraul: cool. ad interest: well, any of it. lately i read that r. stallman uses a lemote, and was interested what else is possible
<wolfspraul> if you follow that for a few weeks or so, you will get a good overview of interesting open hardware projects
<viric> tradej: I think the european distributor for that is dutch
<viric> tradej: http://www.tekmote.nl/
<wolfspraul> ok yes, the Ben NanoNote is definitely a very unique pocket computer
<viric> tradej: kristianpaul has a yeelong, and mstevens and me have fuloong
<wolfspraul> open hardware is a big field
<wolfspraul> so there are many specializations
<wolfspraul> the Ben NanoNote aims to be a polished end-user product yet at the same time only use high-quality free software
<tradej> yeelong looks really nice, but is quite pricey simply as a gadget, nanonote is more like what i'm looking for
<tradej> viric: do you by any chance know what OS kristianpaul and mstevens are running on their machines?
<viric> they use debians
<viric> But me not ):)
<tradej> oh, i didn't catch you have it as well
<tradej> what are you running?
<viric> I run nixos
<viric> I also don't run openwrt on the nanonote. I run nanonixos
<tradej> viric: hmm, nixos looks interesting
<viric> of course
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<viric> larsc: any idea about perf not building, then?
<kristianpaul> viric: what nanonixos can offer us nanonote owners? :)
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<kristianpaul> wiki have plenty information about nanonote i think, well, aplication list could be more descriptive ..
<kristianpaul> tradej: yes debian
<kristianpaul> wanted to try fedora 16 but my other laptop bios wasnot happy with :/
<kristianpaul> FEL is something i want to use
<kristianpaul> i must said i regret i dint met nanonote before yeeloong, but in the sense of openess well i like it a lot just after milkymist
<kristianpaul> :-)
<tradej> kristianpaul: the fedora 16 thing is related to your yeelong?
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<kristianpaul> nope
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<tradej> kristianpaul: that's good. if i buy a yeelong i'd like to run fedora on it (i know we've got some support on MIPS)
* C-Keen runs openbsd on his yeelong
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<wolfspraul> wpwrak: I want to reduce the kicad cmdline options a little to the ones we actually need or plan to use
<wolfspraul> I'm trying to fix some pcbnew --plot errors right now
<wolfspraul> do we need all 4 - hpgl, gerber, postscript, dxf when plotting from pcbnew?
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<wpwrak> hpgl and dxf probably not
<wolfspraul> ok, great. removing :-)
<wolfspraul> they may be helpful somewhere in PCB production
<wolfspraul> dxf for the edge? (for example)
<wolfspraul> also I think I will change my approach of the cmdline patches. before I tried to cleanly separate from the dialog classes
<wolfspraul> but there is too much logic in the dialog classes
<wpwrak> ah no. dxf is used as well
<wolfspraul> so now I will drive the dialog classes instead, and patch/hack out actual GUI updates or popups
<wolfspraul> it's hackier but more realistic and easier to maintain
<wpwrak> not by my scripts, but fabs may like it
<wolfspraul> ok so just remove hpgl for now?
<wolfspraul> I rather have fewer options and they are better supported and tested
<wpwrak> sounds very hackish. maybe float the idea on the list ?
<wolfspraul> otherwise we have lots of options, but they mostly produce junk files. that's easy.
<wolfspraul> well let me get it to work first, it's easy to change things
<wolfspraul> it's not hackish, I'm just learning more about the KiCad sources over time
<wolfspraul> better to drive the dialog classes...
<wolfspraul> before I was copy/pasting out of them, but not good
<wpwrak> seems that dialog and underlying machinery aren't properly separated then. isn't that was OO is all about ? ;-))
<wpwrak> s/was/what/
<qi-bot> wpwrak meant: "seems that dialog and underlying machinery aren't properly separated then. isn't that what OO is all about ? ;-))"
<wolfspraul> it's easier to have a global g_CmdLineMode, and then just skip the dialogs and automatically jump to a (virtual) press of OK.
<wpwrak> ;-))
<wolfspraul> well there is a lot of logic in the dialog classes
<wolfspraul> especially about settings, where they come from and so forth
<wolfspraul> keep in mind that there is another GUI framework underneath, the wx stuff
<wolfspraul> so that's already a dialog abstraction
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<wpwrak> maybe clean up the dialogs first ? dialog -> setup, dialog, processing ?
<wolfspraul> the kicad dialog classes encode the logic needed to drive those dialogs
<wpwrak> phew
<wolfspraul> that is relatively clean because of the underlying wx framework
<wolfspraul> I just skip the ShowModal() and go straight to OnOK() :-)
<wolfspraul> other than that I run through the hundreds sometimes more lines of code of the dialog class
<wpwrak> ah, if it's just a call, then it may not be so bad
<wolfspraul> it's also easier to maintain and in the long run easier to support changes and enhancements to the dialogs
<wolfspraul> because we are just 'driving' the dialog controls, from the command line
<wolfspraul> anyway
<wolfspraul> so I remove hpgl?
<wolfspraul> do you need the "Force A4" setting when plotting Postscript in pcbnew?
<wpwrak> i haven't found any use of hpgl in the code
<wpwrak> you mean --plot=ps_a4 ? i use that
<wolfspraul> oops. just removed :-) (will add it back in)
<wolfspraul> I want to stay close to the dialogs, in the structure of the cmdline
<wolfspraul> what do you think?
<wolfspraul> for ps_a4, that means now it just became a checkbox in the ps tab
<wpwrak> dunno. as long as the dialogs stay close to themselves, that'll work
<wolfspraul> if we follow that the cmdline syntax would change to --plot=ps --force-a4
<wolfspraul> if not, we have more stability in the cmdline, but they diverge from the terminology and layout of the dialogs
<wolfspraul> I rather go with kicad, unless we have a large cmdline user base (which we don't have today)
<wpwrak> you may be discussing this with just your entire user base ;-)
<wolfspraul> yes
<wolfspraul> world-class customer support, as always
<wolfspraul> 100% of customer needs addressed
<wolfspraul> actually, seriously, that's the advantage of a smaller community :-)
<wolfspraul> so we can switch to --plot=ps --force-a4 ?
<wolfspraul> robably I would make it --ps-force-a4
<wolfspraul> because the dialogs are clearly saying now which plot option the settings are for
<wpwrak> sounds better, yes. okay. i think i know where all my uses of pcbnew are.
<wolfspraul> so --plot=ps --ps-force-a4
<wpwrak> (i currently always use pcbnew --plot=ps_a4)
<wolfspraul> because in the old kicad dialogs, the list of formats was gerber/hpgl/dxf/ps/ps_a4
<wolfspraul> so the cmdline options follow that
<wpwrak> ah :)
<wolfspraul> but they moved the "Force A4 output" into the ps format now
<wolfspraul> I think we shuold follow kicad
<wolfspraul> even if that breaks cmdline compatibility
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<larsc> viric: no idea. but it looks like some kernel userspace incompatibility
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<wolfspraul> wpwrak: in pcbnew plotting, there is an option fill-all-zones
<wolfspraul> I cannot find a match in the dialog of kicad HEAD anymore
<wolfspraul> maybe this is always enabled now? do we ever not set this? or ever set it?
<wpwrak> i use it. dunno if it's now always enabled. wouldn't be a bad idea if it was.
<wolfspraul> yeah maybe it is
<wolfspraul> or maybe never, argh
<wolfspraul> ok I leave the option as-is for now
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<viric> larsc: hm ok
<viric> larsc: I'd had thought perf had the same kernel interface as oprofile
<viric> but looks like not
<larsc> but the api should at least be stable
<larsc> have you tried with 3.2?
<viric> hm no
<viric> I'll start playing with a recent kernel soon
<viric> I really want to get kgdb working :)
<viric> and kdb
<larsc> good luck :)
<larsc> but tell me if you succeed, i'd interested in trying it myself
<viric> sure sure, I'll report
<blogic> kgdb only requires 2 functions to be defined
<blogic> and a script on the host pc to seperate console from gdb putpout
<viric> ok
<viric> I'll have to learn that
<viric> I did not plan to have the console in the same tty though
<viric> but if that's possible, even better
<blogic> it is
<blogic> there is a multiplexer script
<blogic> basically the script opens ttyX and created ptyY and ptyZ
<blogic> and then you have console on 1 pty and gdb on the second
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<viric> blogic: can there even be a mingetty in the console line?
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<blogic> i would assume so
<viric> hm great
<wolfspraul> wpwrak: do we need the drill report from pcbnew?
<wolfspraul> or drill map?
<wolfspraul> File -> Fabrication Outputs -> Drill File
<wpwrak> yes, we need pcbnew --drill --origin=aux
<wolfspraul> we don't have that now, do we?
<wolfspraul> origins are absolute and aux
<wpwrak> if we didn't then my imagination must be extremely strong ;-)
<wpwrak> it's used to provide the drill map for the pcb fab. and also for the "pretty" pcb image
<wolfspraul> ah ok, yes
<wolfspraul> ahh, you added it :-)
<wpwrak> oh :)
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<wolfspraul> wpwrak: do you use --list-layers or -l anywhere to specify only specific layers for the plotting?
<wolfspraul> or you always just run the plotting and then pick the files you need?
<wpwrak> lemme see ...
<wpwrak> yes, both
<wolfspraul> oh :-)
<wpwrak> target $(GERBERS) line 94
<wpwrak> that may be the only place that has --list-layers. i have -l at a few other places as well
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