<DocScrutinizer05>
just about the signature, in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1426293&postcount=81 >>"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer<< and the link in it -- awesome!! :-D
<DocScrutinizer05>
(sorry for this being a rather bad term in German, I'm not tainted by that bad history of it)
<pcercuei>
that's not a bad term
<DocScrutinizer05>
yeah I know, the spelling is "Heil"
<DocScrutinizer05>
anyway I rather make that clear immediately that it's not "Heil" but hail
<DocScrutinizer05>
I only wish he also had mentioned Poettering in very same mail
<DocScrutinizer05>
I guess I now have to send a crate of good bavarian beer, or a bottle of old Scotch, or whatever to Linus. He earned it since long, and now for sure
<DocScrutinizer05>
I hope for GKH educating those 2 guys for good, giving them a proper shouting
<infobot>
'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
<DocScrutinizer05>
~part
<DocScrutinizer05>
~part #qi-hardware
<infobot>
Leaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer05).
<sb0_>
now is a good time to bring up the topic of electric charge again
<DocScrutinizer05>
why? do you feel you're charged too much, or inb need of charging?
<DocScrutinizer05>
and what charge are you referring to? the charge of a battery, a capacitor, or the electron charge of an object in empty space?
<DocScrutinizer05>
or do you refer to a special method to do financial transactions to accounts in fiscal domain?
<DocScrutinizer05>
oh, that would probably be "electronic charge"
<DocScrutinizer05>
or maybe that's a particularly cruel new punishment?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
~dict charge
<infobot>
Dictionary 'charge' (2 of 46): (criminal law) a pleading describing some wrong or offense; "he was arrested on a charge of larceny" ;; 2. That particular kind of commission which one undertakes to perform.
<DocScrutinizer05>
~part #qi-hardware
<infobot>
Leaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer05).
<DocScrutinizer05>
#4 Wolfgang Draxinger hits the nail on the head
<pcercuei>
from Munich, Germany
<DocScrutinizer05>
I really wonder what strange nature of mind Lennart must have to ignore and seemingly even enjoy all the flaming and shrug away all the highly qualified on-topic criticism
<DocScrutinizer05>
pcercuei: so what?
<pcercuei>
that's my city
<DocScrutinizer05>
aaah
<pcercuei>
is all I'm sayin
<DocScrutinizer05>
one of the foundation rules of unix been "no binary config/log/whatever files. Everything is plain human readable asci. A computer more easily parses plaintext than a human parses binary"
<pcercuei>
binary logs are a thing?
<DocScrutinizer05>
another paradigm been: "every tool does just one thing, and it does that one thing proper and in a way so it can get combined with other tools"
<dos1>
systemd-journal uses binary logs
<DocScrutinizer05>
see "unix toolbox"
<dos1>
for instance
<pcercuei>
ouch... I didn't know that
<dos1>
I like some of systemd's ideas, but that one for sure is completely retarded
<pcercuei>
yes
<pcercuei>
but is systemd a huge blob, or rather modular?
<DocScrutinizer05>
just to have some fun, do `systemctl --help`. On my system it invokes $PAGER !!!
<DocScrutinizer05>
If I want to have that shit in $PAGER, I use `man systemctl`
<DocScrutinizer05>
--help is explicitly NOT meant to invoke interactive pager or whatever
<DocScrutinizer05>
--interactive
<DocScrutinizer05>
and then "?" - that could do $PAGER alike display of embedded help
<DocScrutinizer05>
outright nuking /usr concept is another example why poettering is a jackass
<DocScrutinizer05>
/usr is from a time when computers had small storage, like 10MB HDD, and you were happy to have everything that's not needed for boot on a separate volume. Poettering shrugs that away and says it's "not modern anymore [SIC!]", completely failing to realize that embedded more and more becomes a mere linux domain and there we NEED that concept again
<DocScrutinizer05>
poettering is doing a sneaky fork to linux
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<DocScrutinizer05>
into poettering flavor that comes with all sorts of abominations that speed up boot by 20% or allow inuktitut text2speech in login screen, but sacrifice all compatibility of system to anything not ISA, and a pure linux flavor that goes untainted by poettering & friends and slowly bitrots
<DocScrutinizer05>
and he blackmails all community to go his way and fix all their apps to work with his crappy new stuff
<DocScrutinizer05>
you know, a 15 years ago you basically could port arbitrary linux programs to AIX, SunOS, HPUX, whatever you like, simply by recompiling them. Nowadays you can't port a poettering-linux app to a non-poettering linux system
<DocScrutinizer05>
but again, Mr Poettering despises Unix compatibility considerations, he thinks "that's not mature"
<dos1>
^^^ that's why I'm sad with Debian choosing systemd as default in jessie :(
<dos1>
despite of ther fact I'm using it on my Debian already
<dos1>
s/ther fact/the fact that/
<qi-bot>
dos1 meant: "despite of the fact that I'm using it on my Debian already"
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<DocScrutinizer05>
I wish M$ was a soviet company, then the NSA already had kidnapped Mr Poettering, transported him to some Albanian prison and tortured him to disclose how much M$ is paying him for sabotaging linux
<DocScrutinizer05>
or s/NSA/<whatever TLA agency you like>/
<DocScrutinizer05>
CIA, DOD
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<dos1>
completely random OT thought: I just realized why english W is pronounced as it is
<dos1>
never thought about it as "double u"... it was just a not explained "dablyoo" for me for whole my life
<dos1>
mind blown... sorry, had to share that discovery somewhere :D
<dos1>
and I came to it thanks to "In English, WWW is the longest possible TLA to pronounce, typically requiring nine syllables." - I started to wonder why for me it seemed more like six syllables ;)
<DocScrutinizer05>
george double-who bush? ;-)
<dos1>
:D
<DocScrutinizer05>
>>Everything about systemd development is centered around the desktop - like windows. They want to change a scripted startup system that is easy to understand and play with, to an all binary obfuscated design - like windows. In every aspect they want Linux to be more like windows.
<DocScrutinizer05>
is your audio also as funny as mine here?
<dos1>
yep
<DocScrutinizer05>
5:10
<DocScrutinizer05>
I already clearly announced that the bare boards will be labeled "NeoN-board"
<DocScrutinizer05>
gta04 was already pretty ambiguous, since it collided with a preceding gta04 project that existed inside OM
<dos1>
yep, but I actually like using "gta04b7" in stuff like bootloader code or device tree files, where variants are detected in runtime
<DocScrutinizer05>
and since nobody knows *for sure* what's the meaning of "gta" in all Openmoko designs, I think we rather should get rid of it
<dos1>
btw (gta04 @ OM) it was supposed to be a minor revision of gta03, right?
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, ok, for those purposes a unique identifier is pretty useful, so I don't mind if it's gta04b7 or gdc4jr1 or whatever
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<DocScrutinizer05>
no, gta04 been the initial name of gta03 project, before it got redesigned using a different CPU than originally planned. Then Sean and Wolfgang started a "skunkwork" project of me specifying and designing a device to get build "outsourced" of FIC factory and OM EE, and the GTA04 label got reused for that
<nicksydney>
DocScrutinizer05: (youtube) yeah the audio is fast forward
<DocScrutinizer05>
this GTA04 been meant to not base on *any* gta03 work, _except_ case
<dos1>
aah, that second gta04 being the same as in those your PDF?
<dos1>
hehe :D
<dos1>
(before it got redesigned using a different CPU than originally planned) so there was some other gta03 as well before the redesign?
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<DocScrutinizer05>
yes, we had some gta03, gta04, gta05 06 07
<DocScrutinizer05>
can't recall what gta03 originally been meant to be. Anyway gta03 iirc started as gta04 and then got relabeled to gta03
<DocScrutinizer05>
while original gta03 got discontinued
<DocScrutinizer05>
just like gta05 and 06 (07?)
<DocScrutinizer05>
OM planned for a "sissiphone" targeted at japanese young girls or sth like that. And a "bubblephone" whatever that meant to be
<DocScrutinizer05>
all that stuff always been pretty "sekrit" even inside OM
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<DocScrutinizer05>
so, if I managed to count then all, we had three gta04 prior to GDC's
<DocScrutinizer05>
them*
<DocScrutinizer05>
while it doesn't hurt to call the GDC device GTA04 (mark 4), it feels kinda odd to perpetuate that GTA moniker ad infinitum
<dos1>
:nod:
<dos1>
why the hell is bzip2 option of tar shortened to "j"?
<DocScrutinizer05>
only unassigned char left over?
<DocScrutinizer05>
btw you know about GTA03 actually had a completely different nickname eventually, in the end? Sth like r7dk4
<dos1>
yep, om-3d7k
<dos1>
its board definition went to openembedded with this name
<DocScrutinizer05>
:nod:
<DocScrutinizer05>
thus... gta04b7 sounds a bit odd for a device that's not at all similar to gta02 or even gta03 (aka om-3d7k, and much more similar to gta02 than the GDC device or Neo900)
<DocScrutinizer05>
I wonder what we gonna do for 2nd revision of gta04b7. gta04b7-2 then?
<DocScrutinizer05>
and how's that linked to the board ID?
<DocScrutinizer05>
hw wise
<DocScrutinizer05>
those 3 bits or whatever
<DocScrutinizer05>
we need to define a way how a system e.g. on uSD gets to know whether it's starting up on a GTA04 or a Neo900, and which board revision of either
<DocScrutinizer05>
N900 solved this by writing the board revision (aka hw revision) to CAL
<dos1>
it's already defined afaik
<dos1>
"official" gta04 images are already supposed to be able to be transfered between gta04 variants
<DocScrutinizer05>
sure, but Neo900 doesn't fit in there, it got way too many hw mods
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's _not_ "just another GTA04 board variant"
<dos1>
dunno about revisions, but SHR somehow determines if it's running on A3 or A4 to decide if it should use sw or hw audio routing
<dos1>
but I haven't checked yet how it does it
<DocScrutinizer05>
it's rather the problem that Neo900 and GTA04 are too similar to just ignore the fact that a system designed for the one could actually try to boot on the other
<DocScrutinizer05>
none of the GPIO and I2C addresses will match
<DocScrutinizer05>
audio will differ massively
<DocScrutinizer05>
hw kbd vs aux key
<DocScrutinizer05>
different power management
<DocScrutinizer05>
maybe different boot console
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<wpwrak>
make it a build- and install-time choice ? that way, you don't have to worry about bridging all the little incompatibilities
<wpwrak>
it's cute to have a kernel that runs on many different boxes, but then there's little real value beyond the cuteness
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neo900 is now known as DocScrutinizer05
<DocScrutinizer05>
indeed
<DocScrutinizer05>
my words
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<DocScrutinizer05>
but when we assume the device can boot from uSD then we need some runtime checks to at least _stop_ booting to the wrong patform|OS combo
<DocScrutinizer05>
of course it would be even more cute to have same image boot on both platforms
<DocScrutinizer05>
at least when we installed all needed drivers etc for both platforms to the system
<DocScrutinizer05>
kernel shouldn't be the problem
<DocScrutinizer05>
sys and proc and dev prolly will be
<DocScrutinizer05>
well, maybe proc not that much
<DocScrutinizer05>
and then of course userland
<DocScrutinizer05>
there's a sh*tload of customizations to adapt for all sorts of differences, starts with modem already
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<wpwrak>
well,. if it would actually boot, then you can add something that stops it. but i mean, how many gta04 are out there anyway ?