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05:01
<
drbrain >
I haven't received an email from ruby-cvs since r38334
05:05
<
zzak >
drbrain: i got 'em
05:05
<
drbrain >
must be my problem, then
05:06
<
zzak >
are they in your spam folder?
05:06
<
drbrain >
my backup MX is down, that might be contributing
05:06
<
zzak >
how many dns zones do you need?
05:07
<
zzak >
you are literally under a different ip everytime i see you
05:08
<
drbrain >
my backup MX also ran my IRC proxy
05:14
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05:25
<
_ko1 >
Travis-san should be more quiet.
05:26
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05:26
<
zzak >
_ko1: what is your plan for debugger api?
05:27
<
_ko1 >
I need to try implement.
05:27
<
zzak >
what about debug_inspector?
05:27
<
_ko1 >
anything issue?
05:27
<
_ko1 >
i assume i completed them
05:27
<
_ko1 >
You mean Ruby level API?
05:27
<
zzak >
what needs doc?
05:27
<
zzak >
anything public?
05:28
<
_ko1 >
zzak: good point!!
05:28
<
_ko1 >
i forget it :)
05:28
<
_ko1 >
I need to write an article to use them.
05:28
<
_ko1 >
so i need to implement some toy debugger
05:29
<
zzak >
i only see r37979 related to debugger
05:29
<
zzak >
i'd like to help with new api
05:30
<
zzak >
_ko1: where do i start?
05:31
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05:31
<
_ko1 >
maybe i need to write.
05:31
<
_ko1 >
some documents.
05:31
<
_ko1 >
after that, please review them.
05:32
<
_ko1 >
or release without document,
05:32
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05:32
<
_ko1 >
but with toy debugger code.
05:32
<
_ko1 >
trdb: toy ruby debugger
05:33
<
_ko1 >
zzak: btw, do you use debugger on ruby?
05:33
<
zzak >
yes, but i havent tried new debug_inspector api
05:33
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05:34
<
zzak >
i will help, if you have toy debugger i can review, i will help with documentation and api review
05:34
<
_ko1 >
what kind of debugger do you use?
05:34
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05:34
<
_ko1 >
debugger gem?
05:35
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05:36
<
zzak >
let's make ruby debugging documentation the best! :D
05:36
<
zzak >
everyone likes debugging their ruby
05:36
<
zzak >
tracepoint is very cool
05:36
<
charliesome >
has the new debug inspector api been exposed to ruby land yet?
05:36
<
_ko1 >
Do you find any issue on TracePoint?
05:37
<
zzak >
all issues i had with tracepoint you fixed :)
05:37
<
_ko1 >
nobu fixed "freezing issue" while exeption.
05:37
<
zzak >
yes, and nobu
05:37
<
zzak >
tracepoint is very good!
05:37
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05:37
<
_ko1 >
charliesome: now, only on C level.
05:38
<
charliesome >
i'm looking forward to it!
05:38
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05:38
<
_ko1 >
they are very powerful, and possible to break encapsulation
05:38
<
zzak >
charliesome: we need to make something cool with debug_inspector
05:38
<
zzak >
_ko1: agreed
05:39
<
charliesome >
_ko1: what do you mean by break encapsulation?
05:39
<
zzak >
tracepoint api leaks
05:39
<
charliesome >
memory?
05:39
<
zzak >
no, it leaks locals
05:39
<
_ko1 >
charliesome: you can change local variable for every backtrace.
05:40
<
_ko1 >
charliesome: sorry, i said strange english
05:40
<
charliesome >
_ko1: i'd call that a feature!
05:40
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05:40
<
zzak >
_ko1: where is your enable gist?
05:40
<
_ko1 >
charliesome: what mean?
05:41
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05:41
<
charliesome >
_ko1: are you going to restrict the api when you expose it to ruby?
05:41
<
zzak >
TracePoint.trace(:call){|tp| p tp.binding.eval('method(__method__).parameters.map{|(_, v)| eval(v.to_s)}') } # how to get arguments
05:41
<
zzak >
_ko1: that is very cool
05:42
<
_ko1 >
zzak: ah, i see. it's only see the shallowest level
05:42
<
charliesome >
tracepoint looks very cool indeed
05:43
<
_ko1 >
charliesome: I don't make them public Ruby APIs
05:43
<
zzak >
["puts \"hello\"\n", 2]
05:43
<
zzak >
charliesome: have you seen binding_of_caller?
05:43
<
_ko1 >
charliesome: I assume
*debugger creator is enough smart, and they may not abuse this API*
05:44
<
charliesome >
zzak: yeah i use it in better_errors
05:44
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05:44
<
charliesome >
but it'd be cool to use a ruby-only api in 2.0
05:44
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05:44
<
_ko1 >
better_errors is okay, it is something type of debugger
05:45
<
_ko1 >
better_errors should use inspect apis
05:45
<
_ko1 >
application code should not use them.
05:45
<
_ko1 >
for example,
05:46
<
_ko1 >
if behavior of method `foo' is depend on caller's binding
05:46
<
_ko1 >
it will break with
05:46
<
zzak >
i like to see use ruby over gem
05:46
<
charliesome >
that is pure evil
05:47
<
zzak >
charliesome: if you use ruby, i bet you will get merged into rails
05:47
<
zzak >
rails 4 depends on rails 2
05:47
<
zzak >
rails 4 depends on ruby 2
05:47
<
_ko1 >
This is why I say caller's environment should be hide.
05:47
<
charliesome >
rails 4 is >= 1.9.3 iirc
05:47
<
zzak >
but you will see, ruby 2.0 is amazing
05:47
<
charliesome >
i'm super excited already
05:47
<
zzak >
new debugger api, everyone want rails on ruby 2.0!
05:48
<
charliesome >
anyway, i'm going home now
05:48
<
_ko1 >
14:46 charliesome> that is pure evil
05:48
<
_ko1 >
Yes. it is evil!
05:48
<
_ko1 >
I want to avoid evil codes.
05:48
<
charliesome >
debuggers are ok to be evil
05:48
<
_ko1 >
So the debugger APIs should be difficult to use.
05:48
<
_ko1 >
charliesome: I agree!
05:49
<
_ko1 >
so they can use debugger APIs
05:49
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05:49
<
charliesome >
but you want to make it hard to use so people aren't tempted to use them?
05:49
<
_ko1 >
charliesome: install with gem is difficult?
05:49
<
_ko1 >
i don't think so.
05:49
<
_ko1 >
you also install some debugger with gem.
05:50
<
zzak >
a debugger in stdlib would be nice
05:50
<
zzak >
i think thats what charlie means
05:50
<
charliesome >
anyway, gtg ~1 hour
05:51
<
zzak >
_ko1: debugger gem api is nice, just `debugger` and step
05:51
<
_ko1 >
zzak: debugger UI should be separate with interpreter
05:51
<
_ko1 >
UI should be updated frequently
05:51
<
_ko1 >
so i think debugger should be provided by gem.
05:52
<
zzak >
but major release should provide stable api for ui
05:52
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05:53
<
_ko1 >
zzak: I agree.
05:54
<
_ko1 >
now, we are at transition
05:55
<
_ko1 >
If we conclude debugger API is enough, then 2.1 or 2.2 will provide another apis
05:55
<
_ko1 >
If we can conclude debugger API is enough, then 2.1 or 2.2 will provide another apis
05:57
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05:58
<
zzak >
debugger api is simple, really, only complex part is C api, which changes with VM
05:58
<
_ko1 >
Now, I'm not sure they are enough or not.
05:59
<
_ko1 >
So we need experience.
06:03
<
zzak >
ofcourse, many gems now depend on 1.9 api :/
06:08
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09:44
<
charliesome >
_ko1: are you there?
09:57
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09:59
<
charliesome >
i believe i have a fix, but i'd like your feedback
09:59
<
_ko1 >
now opening...
10:00
<
_ko1 >
it is critical bug, i think
10:00
<
_ko1 >
could you post your patch on this ticket?
10:00
<
_ko1 >
i'll check it
10:01
<
charliesome >
those lines overwrite the environment of the main binding with a new object
10:01
<
_ko1 >
now, i'm busy with another task
10:01
<
_ko1 >
(i'm attending local meeting now :)
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<
charliesome >
oh dear i have figured out how to change the superclass of a class
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23:42
<
seacreature >
It's just an idea, but I'd like to understand why it
*wouldn't* be a good idea, aside from the usual YAGNI arguments
23:49
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