#ruby-lang on 2012-02-28 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2011-11-28 00:09 Topic for #ruby-lang is now Ruby 1.9.3p0: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 Lines of Text on http://pastie.org

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11:10 <dominikh> :D

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11:29 <injekt> has anyone here used garb?

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11:46 <yorickpeterse> Nope

11:49 <Arnvald> injekt: I used it, but long long time ago

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11:49 <krzyhoo> hello experts

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11:50 <injekt> Arnvald: stupid question, did it work? :)

11:51 <krzyhoo> gotta question. I have placed my classes in an external file. Now I'd like to place a test in that file (Powercenter.rb) which cheks if the user has not executed this file by accident

11:51 <krzyhoo> ./Powewrcenter.rb should deliver a message

11:51 <Arnvald> injekt: yes, that time it did with no problems

11:52 <judofyr> krzyhoo: if $0 == __FILE__, then that file is being executed

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11:53 <krzyhoo> judofyr: thanks dude

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11:54 <injekt> Arnvald: kk thanks

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13:04 <rue> The file is the “executable”. Files get executed all the time ;)

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13:09 <judofyr> rue: :D

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13:25 <apeiros_> sounds deadly

13:36 <erikh> rue: I got yelled at once at a job for calling them 'binaries' by someone who spent way too much time thinking about it

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13:36 <rue> Well, they *are* binary

13:36 <erikh> yeah

13:37 <rue> It just so happens that you can ASCII-decode them

13:37 <erikh> well you can ascii-decode a.out's too but they don't say a whole lot

13:37 <rue> So I think they spent too LITTLE time thinking about it ;)

13:37 <erikh> unless you're rob pike or headius or someone like that

13:37 <noodl> hai. trying to build ruby on os x 10.6 but it's not finding libyaml for psych. i installed libyaml with macports. how can i tell it to look in /opt/local please?

13:38 <erikh> how are you building ruby?

13:38 <erikh> if you're using straight ./configure, there should be a -- option there (./configure --help)

13:38 <noodl> from source with --prefix=~/.rbenv/versions/1.9.3-p125

13:38 <noodl> ok, will check the --help thanks

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13:39 <Asher> and if you can't make that work you can also just create sym links in /usr/local

13:39 <erikh> oh, you can use ruby-build to od that

13:39 <erikh> rbenv should have formulae to deal with 1.9.3-p125

13:39 <erikh> unless you have a good reason for building your own

13:39 <noodl> not really..

13:39 <noodl> will try --with-opt-dir=/opt/local

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13:42 <jaisoares> Hi everyone! Is there any way of dynamically comment out ruby code based on the current ruby version?

13:42 <erikh> if RUBY_VERSION > '1.8'

13:42 <erikh> it's not a comment though

13:42 <erikh> be forewarned it doesn't work with everything

13:42 <jaisoares> my problem is the comment part

13:43 <whitequark> jaisoares: extract the version-dependent code in a separate .rb file and load it conditionally

13:43 <whitequark> you won't get closer to comments without that.

13:43 <erikh> unless you use sed and rake

13:43 * erikh grins

13:43 <jaisoares> whitequark: that was my backup plan, any idea about an alternative solution?

13:43 <judofyr> if RUBY_VERSION > '1.8'; File.open(__FILE__) … end

13:43 <judofyr> :D

13:44 <tobiasvl> require

13:44 <tobiasvl> include

13:44 <judofyr> jaisoares: if RUBY_VERSION > '1.8'; eval(…) ?

13:44 <erikh> UGH

13:44 <erikh> how about just require

13:44 <erikh> or if you have to: load

13:44 <jaisoares> thanks judofyr, that was what I was looking for

13:45 <tobiasvl> yes. please use require instead.

13:45 <erikh> ^

13:45 <noodl> 1 sticky bun for erikh. --with-opt-dir did the trick, ty.

13:45 <tobiasvl> jaisoares: any reason you don't condone require? :)

13:46 <erikh> yay sticky buns!

13:46 <judofyr> code = %Q{hello\nworld}; code.gsub!(/^/, '#') if RUBY_VERSION > '1.8'; eval(code)

13:46 <erikh> judofyr: man

13:46 <jaisoares> tobiasvl: I just wanted to avoid a separate file

13:46 <tobiasvl> jesus

13:46 <tobiasvl> jaisoares: oh ok

13:46 <erikh> ugh

13:46 <erikh> UGGGGH

13:46 <judofyr> erikh: tobiasvl: :D

13:47 <jaisoares> thanks all for your quick brainstorming solutions

13:47 <erikh> might as well throw it in __END__ if you're gonna use %Q like that

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14:07 <noodl> hai again. `gem list` shows that i have rails installed but ~/.rbenv/versions/1.9.3-p125/bin doesn't include the rails command. `rbenv rehash` isn't helping.. did i screw up. i'd ask #rubyonrails but that's rarely productive :/

14:08 <noodl> i tried both `bundle` in my app to install rails and `gem install rails`. neither has produced a binary.

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14:11 <noodl> hmm bundle exec rails works. rbenv exec rails does not

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14:23 <khaase> noodl: gem install rails; rbenv rehash; rbenv shims

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14:23 <khaase> noodl: something like that

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14:24 <noodl> khaase: trying to follow the suggestions here. https://github.com/sstephenson/rbenv/issues/73 didn't know about rbenv shims though, thanks. isn't rehash meant to do that?

14:24 <noodl> oh, it just lists them. no rails yet..

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14:26 <noodl> it seems thatif you run "bundle" before "gem install rails" you will never get a rails executable

14:26 <shevy> hey noodl

14:26 <shevy> do you want an "e"?

14:26 <noodl> meh, "e"s are for wimps :P

14:27 <toykoaf> hey guys, I'm kinda new to ruby, looking for the ruby-est way to run a system command and get it's output, %x[..] won't accept a string as a parameter, anything else you guys recommend?

14:28 <apeiros_> toykoaf: um, %x[] does…

14:28 <apeiros_> ah, I understand - %x[] is like a string literal, just that it's being executed. you can use string interpolation:

14:29 <apeiros_> %x[#{cmd} #{arg1} …]

14:29 <khaase> noodl: I have no idea, I have similar issues with rspec

14:29 <apeiros_> also see Kernel#system and Open3

14:29 <khaase> noodl: make sure you gem install them. bundle install seems not to be enough.

14:30 <khaase> noodl: maybe rbenv-bundler helps?

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14:30 <noodl> khaase: tried that several times. the gem is installed fine but having first run bundler, it seems that gem install won't add bin/rails

14:30 <toykoaf> thanks! it works

14:30 <noodl> can't see why though. .bundle/config in my app contains only an empty yaml hash

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14:33 <noodl> hmm, `ls -al $(bundle show rails) shows just . and .. so apparently i have an empty rails gem

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14:35 <noodl> khaase: `gem install railties && rbenv rehash` seems to fix it. no clues re rspec though, sorry.

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15:27 <roadkith> since #jruby isnt very active, maybe someone on here can help, i'm getting this:

15:27 <roadkith> 2012/02/28 15:50:59.792] !! org/jruby/RubyString.java:7147:in `encode!': code converter not found ({:invalid=>:replace, :undef=>:replace}) (Encoding::ConverterNotFoundError)

15:28 <roadkith> this happens when in cinch bot i do c.encoding = 'iso-8859-1'

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15:28 <roadkith> or 'latin1'

15:28 <dominikh> roadkith: which version of jruby is that, and are you running in 1.9 mode?

15:29 <roadkith> jruby 1.6.3 (ruby-1.8.7-p330) - yes in 1.9 mode

15:29 <roadkith> magic comment is set like # encoding: iso-8859-1

15:30 <roadkith> p __ENCODING_ also says encoding is set to so-8859-1

15:30 <dominikh> they're not implementing String#encode! correctly.

15:30 <roadkith> is that a known bug?

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15:30 <shevy> the bug is the whole Encoding

15:30 <dominikh> no idea, I just saw it for the first time, and I do not use jruby

15:30 <roadkith> shevy: different story tho

15:30 <shevy> yeah

15:30 <roadkith> dominikh: oh okay :S

15:31 <roadkith> i'm not l33t enough to send in patches/diffs

15:31 <roadkith> :(

15:31 <dominikh> roadkith: thing here is: String#encode! has a form where no encoding is explicitly supplied. jruby doesn't seem to know that

15:31 <dominikh> probably want to file a bug report with jruby

15:31 <shevy> well you can always ask headius (when he is here... which he usually is... but not right now)

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15:31 <roadkith> dominikh: i guess i dont know enough details to file a bug

15:32 <roadkith> precisly point where/what/why/suggest fix

15:32 <shevy> just report that you found a bug

15:32 <shevy> if you did that is

15:32 <roadkith> shevy: yeah i wouldnt know if i did :D

15:32 <shevy> it could be a feature

15:32 <shevy> :>

15:32 <imperator> 1.6.3? they're up to 1.6.7 now

15:32 <roadkith> who knows

15:32 <shevy> oh

15:33 <roadkith> imperator: yeah i'll upgrade and see what happens

15:33 <shevy> yeah I suppose they dont want to maintain old versions

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15:33 <dominikh> shevy: do you even have a clue what you're talking about?

15:33 <shevy> dominikh yeah. ur mom

15:34 <dominikh> how do you "mantain old versions" without releasing new versions

15:34 <shevy> and is this question of importance to you dominikh?

15:34 <dominikh> god, you're still the same pathetic loser you used to be.

15:34 <shevy> less than your mom

15:35 <imperator> settle down kids

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15:37 <roadkith> same with 1.6.7

15:38 <dominikh> roadkith: well, the bug is that their String#encode! doesn't handle the case where the first and only argument is the hash of options

15:38 <dominikh> that is what you can report.

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15:38 <roadkith> dominikh: mind if i reference you? :D

15:38 <roadkith> reder to

15:38 <roadkith> refer to

15:39 <dominikh> feel free to.

15:39 <dominikh> after all it's my library that doesn't work on jruby :P

15:39 <roadkith> oh okay :D

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15:41 <dominikh> feel free to link me to the bug, too, so I can concretize it just in case.

15:42 <roadkith> dominikh: i pasted it to their channel

15:42 <roadkith> will google if i can write a ticket too

15:43 <dominikh> yeah, irc is not how you report bugs to a big project :P

15:44 <roadkith> yeah i thought maybe someone there will be merciful and open a ticket for me :P

15:44 <roadkith> so i wont have to google, read up, etc on how to open a ticket with jruby :D

15:44 <imperator> roadkith, it's really not a big deal to report a bug; no one will bite :)

15:44 <roadkith> imperator: so says you... :D

15:45 <dominikh> you go to their bugtracker and open a ticket :P

15:45 <imperator> although, it does require a jira account, but it's free, so...

15:45 <dominikh> I've done it before. funnily enough because of Encoding issues, too

15:45 * imperator has over 100

15:45 <imperator> i think i should get a prize

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15:49 <mistym> ChanServ message could use updating.

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15:54 ChanServ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 1.9.3-p125: http://ruby-lang.org | Paste >3 lines of text on http://pastie.org or use a gist

15:54 <imperator> mistym, done

15:54 <mistym> imperator: Awesome!

15:55 <dominikh> didn't even know he had +o :>

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15:55 <Ksec> Testing

15:56 <roadkith> dominikh: shamelessly stole your bug description: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/JRUBY-6510

15:56 <roadkith> i filed my first ever bug report

15:56 <imperator> Ksec, hello, this is internet

15:56 <roadkith> now i need to get a new passport and hit the road

15:56 <dominikh> roadkith: haha, with a title that makes you look like an arse :>

15:56 <roadkith> dominikh: damn... too harsh?

15:57 <dominikh> roadkith: when I say that it's not implemented correctly, that's because I am bold and grumpy. when someone reports a bug and says "x not correctly implemented", that sounds quite harsh

15:57 <roadkith> dominikh: dude... you could have told me...

15:57 <roadkith> geez

15:57 <roadkith> now i will get flamed to death

15:57 <imperator> relax, it will be fine

15:57 <roadkith> :P

15:57 <dominikh> :D

15:58 <Ksec> Are there any thing done in Ruby 2.0 to prevent this?? http://twitpic.com/7fcx1n

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15:58 <shevy> jira should learn from github issue reporting. Those are a lot of fun to use.

15:59 <judofyr> Ksec: see: http://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/5054

15:59 <dominikh> oh god, not that one again :D

15:59 <shevy> Ksec how would you go about preventing this?

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15:59 <mistym> judofyr: I loved lolcode's implementation.

16:00 <imperator> Ksec, my "solution" is to use {} instead of do/end on occasion :)

16:00 <mistym> kthxxxxxxbye

16:01 <imperator> mistym, hm?

16:02 <shevy> it's lolcode

16:02 <mistym> imperator: lolcode's implementation of "ennnnnnd"

16:02 <shevy> ennnnnd is lol too but not so amusing

16:02 <imperator> oic

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16:02 <andrewvos> shevy: If you agree with ennnd I'm going to /ignore you

16:02 <shevy> I think I count "end" faster than the "n" in there

16:02 <pbjorklund> Whats a good way to check *params == nil when forwarding it? Like https://gist.github.com/1933335 but … right?

16:02 <imperator> coincidentally, i was just going to ask how to start jirb in 1.9 mode...

16:03 <shevy> andrewvos, of course I don't. It is a joke suggestions after all.

16:03 <shevy> but I concur that several "end" can be annoying

16:03 <andrewvos> hehe

16:03 <andrewvos> yeah true

16:03 <judofyr> pbjorklund: params.empty?

16:03 <judofyr> pbjorklund: ehm, or wait

16:03 <judofyr> pbjorklund: you don't need the if

16:03 <imperator> pbjorklund, first concern: you're using .send

16:04 <judofyr> pbjorklund: just do "@client.send method, *params"

16:04 <shevy> hehe

16:04 <imperator> pbjorklund, second concern: @client#method should be able to deal with nil params, so you shouldn't have to worry about it

16:04 <shevy> combine method_missing with send!

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16:04 <shevy> or was it missing_method ...

16:04 * imperator waves to headius, slyphon

16:04 <headius> hi there

16:05 <slyphon> hai!

16:05 <slyphon> headius: hey, did the whole rubygems integration thing ever get sorted out?

16:05 <shevy> oh roadkith is no longer here :(

16:05 <judofyr> pbjorklund: when you use *params it will *always* be an Array

16:05 <headius> slyphon: which thing are you referring to?

16:05 <slyphon> er

16:05 <slyphon> maven integration?

16:05 <slyphon> the "No, no, it's *metadata*" issue

16:07 <pbjorklund> imperator: Don't know whats wrong with send, care to share? :)

16:07 <pbjorklund> judofyr: Thanks, didn't realize that

16:07 <slyphon> pbjorklund: it usually means you're touching an object in inappropriate ways

16:07 <imperator> pbjorklund, why are you calling @client.send method instead of @client.method ?

16:08 <judofyr> imperator: because method is a paramter

16:08 <judofyr> parameter*

16:08 <imperator> oic

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16:11 <imperator> jruby --1.9 -S jirb :)

16:12 <headius> slyphon: yeah, they ultimately just opened up rubyforge to external deps

16:12 <slyphon> oh

16:12 <headius> if you install "cloby" gem now it will also pull clojure from maven at the same time

16:12 <headius> but we need to clean it up and make it official in 1.7

16:12 <slyphon> sweet!

16:12 <imperator> interesting

16:12 <slyphon> now i can stop abusing gems

16:12 * slyphon looks this way and that to make sure drbrain isn't watching

16:13 <imperator> using extconf.rb files inappropriately again, eh slyphon?

16:13 <slyphon> X-/

16:13 <slyphon> shhh!

16:13 <slyphon> not so loud...

16:14 <slyphon> well, that and wrapping .jar files

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16:15 <headius> yeah, it's obviously not great if everyone's pushing their own wrappers :)

16:16 <Ksec> i am sorry for the late reply, just reading that VERY log bug issue. I have absolute no idea how to prevent endless end, And some of my thought were already presented in the discussion on the bug listing.

16:16 <slyphon> totally

16:16 <slyphon> if only those java pricks would be more considerate to the jruby community and push *official* wrappers!

16:16 <headius> hah yes :)

16:16 <headius> we just need to get rubygems synced up with maven central!

16:17 <slyphon> well...let's not go crazy now

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16:19 <rippa> end(3)

16:19 <rippa> ful retard

16:19 <rippa> *ll

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17:06 <darix> slyphon: it cant be worse people abusing rubygems to install system libraries for other gems (libv8 gem e.g.)

17:06 <slyphon> it can't be worse?

17:06 <slyphon> i mean, i do it for zookeeper

17:07 <slyphon> i inherited that though

17:07 <whitequark> darix: that's not rubygems abuse (through it may be substance abuse; I don't care)

17:07 <slyphon> it's a trade-off

17:07 <whitequark> therubyracer _must_ be linked against a very particular build # of libv8

17:07 <whitequark> and it _must_ be compiled against a very certain minor version of libv8

17:08 <whitequark> because of API/ABI wreckage in libv8

17:08 <whitequark> you can't expect all versions of %distronamehere% to include API-compatible libv8's.

17:08 <whitequark> err, and you could provide the source within the gem...

17:08 <darix> whitequark: it is. if the libv8 guys would get their soversions right... you dont need to care about that. also the "link against a certain minor version" is an solved issue (hello pkgconfig)

17:08 <whitequark> if only it would not compile for ages.

17:09 <whitequark> darix: the problem is that if you need to have version 3.5.8 exactly to build against, because API in .7 and .9 is different

17:09 <whitequark> you can't reasonably expect it to build on any major number of systems

17:09 <whitequark> and you wouldn't want to try to turn your code to a horrible #ifdef-mess

17:09 <whitequark> and you can't use FFI due to C++ templates

17:10 <darix> whitequark: and when will rubyracer upgrade to the new apis? givn that newer version might also incorporate security fixes?

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17:10 <whitequark> darix: with the current scheme, they can do it whenever they want

17:10 <darix> whitequark: that doesnt solve the security issue problem.

17:11 <imperator> i remember that perl libraries with external deps would use an interactive command line interface

17:11 <imperator> that seemed the friendly thing to do

17:11 <whitequark> darix: because therubyracer authors now need to track security fixes in libv8?

17:11 <imperator> "you need this library - mind if I grab it and install it for you?"

17:11 <darix> whitequark: if they come at the cost of upgrading to a newer api, yes

17:11 <darix> because rubyracer hardlocks you on that particular version

17:11 <whitequark> darix: well, suppose that TRR uses the OS pkg management system now

17:12 <whitequark> 5% of the OSes have the "right" version, it updates with security fixes and everything's good

17:12 <whitequark> 95% of other installs use some horribly outdated and untrusted PPA

17:12 <whitequark> unmaintained at all

17:12 <whitequark> got the idea? that way it's only worse.

17:13 <whitequark> and yes, the split is huge. at least consider that most dev's machines would run a testing (Debian) or latest (Ubuntu) version of OS

17:13 <darix> whitequark: for the core distro packages the distributor will provide backports, for broken ppas the admin is responsible to monitor it

17:13 <whitequark> and their respective servers would be on stable (Debian) or LTS (Ubuntu)

17:13 <whitequark> they have incompatible v8's. I have checked

17:13 <whitequark> darix: you're an idealist

17:13 <whitequark> in an ideal world, that'd be true

17:13 <whitequark> this IS NOT true.

17:14 <whitequark> the PPA author does't give a fuck.

17:14 <darix> whitequark: well ... i know how i work. :)

17:14 <whitequark> darix: huh?

17:14 <darix> whitequark: i am package maintainer and admin.

17:14 <dominikh> tbuehlmann: are you still working on Ponder?

17:14 <darix> moin dominikh

17:14 <whitequark> yes, and that's why _your_ system is set up The Right Way

17:15 <dominikh> darix: hi.

17:15 <whitequark> darix: most other systems aren't. the libv8 gemhack is actually the best realistically possible solution here.

17:15 <tbuehlmann> dominikh, um, not at the moment at least

17:15 <dominikh> tbuehlmann: alright

17:16 <tbuehlmann> why?

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17:16 <dominikh> tbuehlmann: I'm updating a comparison table of irc frameworks, one of the fields is "active development"

17:16 <darix> whitequark: the downside of the whole "oh lets start putting libs intree or abusing rubygems to install them, that now more people ask "i am too lazy to install the library for my gem manually. please put it intree"

17:17 <darix> whitequark: also intree libraries can get you extra fun when 2 gems ship the same library intree in 2 versions

17:17 <tbuehlmann> ah, I see. yea, no active development at the moment

17:17 <dominikh> alright

17:17 <darix> nice random crashes

17:17 <tbuehlmann> hit me with that comparison when it's done

17:17 <whitequark> darix: you're right. intree libraries are evil, and so is libv8

17:18 <dominikh> will do

17:18 <whitequark> darix: but there are not that many libs with such incredibly unstable api/abi

17:18 <darix> can we hit tbuehlmann without a comparison too?

17:18 <whitequark> darix: I'm not able to name a second one, for example.

17:18 <darix> whitequark: many multimedia libs

17:18 <darix> linux kernel

17:18 <whitequark> erm

17:19 <whitequark> I meant the ones which could be useful as gem dependencies

17:19 <whitequark> the kernel certainly has a very stable API/ABI.

17:19 <whitequark> for userspace, that is.

17:19 <darix> to the userspace maybe. drivers is a totally different beast :)

17:19 <whitequark> how many gems you seen contain linux drivers?

17:20 <darix> whitequark: hopefully none :D

17:20 <darix> i was just thinking about libs and stuff with unstable apis :)

17:20 <whitequark> well, not each lib is libv8

17:20 <whitequark> multimedia ones are mostly C

17:20 <whitequark> you can use FFI

17:21 <whitequark> you can, for example, catch exceptions or import libwhatever_version() and switch your imports against it or whatever

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17:26 <outoftime> is there a clever way to do a list comprehension over multiple input lists in ruby? here's my non-clever example for two input lists: http://pastie.org/3481523

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17:29 <Kuukunen> outoftime: well, you could do like.... http://pastie.org/3481573

17:29 <Kuukunen> or something

17:29 <Kuukunen> nowait

17:30 <outoftime> Kuukunen: the problem there is that #zip only calls the block on elements with the same index

17:30 <Kuukunen> you meant all configurations? :P

17:30 <outoftime> Kuukunen: right

17:30 <Kuukunen> outoftime: well, I think that's clever enough :P

17:31 <outoftime> Kuukunen: fair enough : )

17:31 <outoftime> just wasn't sure if there was a built-in I was unaware of

17:31 <outoftime> also mildly curious as to how one might implement it for an arbitrary # of inputs lists -- will have to give that more thought

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17:35 <Kuukunen> outoftime: ah now I remember

17:35 <dominikh> tbuehlmann: the table: http://cinchrb.org/about – it kind of turned out more pathetic than hoped

17:35 <Kuukunen> outoftime: http://pastie.org/3481573

17:35 <outoftime> Kuukunen: yes!!

17:35 <Kuukunen> outoftime: works for more than two lists too

17:35 <outoftime> Kuukunen: yes yes yes. exactly what I was looking for. thanks!

17:36 <Kuukunen> outoftime: of course you're gonna have combinatorial explosion pretty quickly, but...

17:36 <outoftime> Kuukunen: no worries, in practice this is only two collections, both of which will have a small number of elements

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17:38 <outoftime> Kuukunen: even better, by the way, to skip the #each -- #product yields the tuples if given a block

17:38 <Kuukunen> well, yea

17:38 <outoftime> wonderful. code prettier. thanks!

17:39 <outoftime> boo, #product doesn't work on Set instances

17:39 <outoftime> oh, I guess that makes sense.

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17:41 <rob_> hi, do you use 'require' to include another bit of ruby code inline?

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17:42 <yorickpeterse> It's not loaded inline as is done with say, PHP

17:42 <rob_> is there a way to load inline?

17:42 <yorickpeterse> It's loaded and evaluated, it's not injected into the file calling it

17:42 <yorickpeterse> What exactly are you trying to achieve?

17:43 <rob_> im using sinatra and writing an extension, i want the plugin init script to have the module stuff in it then require a routes.rb and helpers.rb into the relavent places

17:44 <tbuehlmann> dominikh, nice overview! I assume you want cinch to stay threaded?

17:44 <yorickpeterse> There's no real way of "injecting" code into another file, that's simply not how require() works

17:44 <yorickpeterse> and it's a bad idea anyway

17:44 <dominikh> tbuehlmann: definitely, yes.

17:44 <yorickpeterse> Just make sure it's loaded before you need it and you're good to go

17:44 <yorickpeterse> The usual thing people do is putting their require() calls at the top of a file

17:44 <rob_> yorickpeterse: ok, i'll avoid doing it then, thanks :)

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17:45 <yorickpeterse> np

17:45 <yorickpeterse> dominikh: What was the motivation for threads in Cinch? The GIL makes it somewhat useless unless you're on jruby

17:46 <dominikh> yorickpeterse: uh, IO in 1.9 threads isn't as bad as in 1.8, so the GIL doesn't hurt there.

17:46 <yorickpeterse> True, but there still can only be one true thread :)

17:47 <dominikh> yorickpeterse: yeah, but it's an irc bot, not something that tries to compute Pi as efficiently as possible. The motivation for threads was the resulting API

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17:47 <yorickpeterse> dominikh: fair enough

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17:47 <dominikh> yorickpeterse: considering that common bot tasks are scraping websites or similar tasks, it's easiest to just have threads instead of trusting the user with managing thread pools

17:48 <yorickpeterse> Good point

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18:18 <rob_> how do you convert an int to a symbol?

18:18 <rob_> i want to do a loop on some ints and then use them as keys in a hash..

18:19 <yxhuvud> uh, why make them to symbols for that?

18:19 <chris2> oO

18:19 <rob_> just thought it'd be nicer

18:19 <dominikh> you thought wrong.

18:20 <dominikh> (for your amusement, internally, symbols are ints)

18:20 <chris2> you can just use ints as keys

18:20 <chris2> dominikh: were

18:20 <rob_> dominikh: ah thanks :)

18:20 <dominikh> darn!

18:20 <rob_> oh

18:20 <dominikh> why can't people stop obsoleting my knowledge?

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18:20 <chris2> dominikh: in 1.9 INT2SYM is gone iirc

18:20 <yxhuvud> Reminds me of the other day when I got bit by that Integer(:sym) doesn't give the same result as Integer("sym")

18:20 <rob_> im just used to using symbols as keys .. in this instance it's for a calendar so it makes sense to use symbols..

18:21 <chris2> if your keys are numbers, just use numbers :P

18:21 <chris2> why make them symbols?

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18:22 <dominikh> considering it's a calendar, even arrays could make sense :P

18:22 <chris2> yes

18:23 <yxhuvud> if you really really want symbols, use :april oslt.

18:23 <rob_> good point

18:23 <rob_> about arrays

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19:04 <rob_> thanks all

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19:05 <shevy> Is there an easier way to define dynamic methods rather than use class_eval like here? http://pastie.org/3482177

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19:08 <whitequark> shevy: you pervert

19:08 <whitequark> why do you want _that_?!

19:09 <shevy> whitequark in a class for every existing hash key, a reader method should exist

19:09 <whitequark> I think you want either define_singleton_method on the instance or method_missing on the instance, depending on how fast do you need that

19:09 <whitequark> I'd start with method_missing

19:09 <whitequark> define_method defines a method on all classes in existence

19:09 <whitequark> a) it is VERY SLOW

19:09 <whitequark> b) it is VERY WRONG

19:10 <manveru> whitequark: he wants OpenStruct

19:10 <whitequark> manveru: yeah, I know what OpenStruct is

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19:10 <manveru> and i've long ago given up telling shevy what i think of his ideas

19:11 <shevy> provide an alternative?

19:11 <whitequark> shevy: you've been said: OpenStruct

19:11 <whitequark> it is exactly what you want.

19:11 <TTilus> whitequark: is define_method slower than define_singleton_method?

19:11 <shevy> well openstruct gives me setters too

19:11 <manveru> eval is faster than either

19:12 <manveru> but not eval with a block

19:12 <whitequark> TTilus: depends on your impl. but define_method will drop VM caches on each instance, and define_singleton_method may only drop VM caches on this particular instance, if you're lucky

19:12 <TTilus> whitequark: ah, now i get it, makes sense

19:13 <whitequark> manveru: do you mean that define_(singleton_)?method still makes a closure and whatnot

19:13 <manveru> whitequark: yeah

19:13 <whitequark> and with eval you can use attr_reader which hopefully has an accelerated implementation?

19:13 <manveru> no

19:13 <manveru> you can use attr_reader with __send__ anyway

19:13 <manveru> but that won't access the hash

19:13 <whitequark> oh, yes

19:13 <whitequark> hm.

19:14 <whitequark> I've seen evals with strings all over the place in Rails

19:14 <tbuehlmann> dominikh, isaac is EM based now, isn't it?

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19:15 <hagabaka> shevy: method_missing then

19:15 <dominikh> tbuehlmann: hm yeah, kinda. they never released a new gem and the implementation seemed rather bogus from what I could tell

19:16 <shevy> hagabaka hmm

19:16 <tbuehlmann> ah, ok

19:16 <dominikh> I'm not 100% positive on the bogus part though

19:16 <manveru> shevy: http://pastie.org/private/fo7glv5wbpijkj7frugwzq

19:16 <shevy> omg

19:17 <manveru> maybe pass __LINE__ to eval too, makes for happier debugging

19:17 <shevy> hagabaka what irks me with method_missing is that I have the array of method names

19:17 <shevy> but method_missing gets called any time there is an unknown method

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19:17 <manveru> oh

19:18 <manveru> so you do know all beforehand?

19:18 <shevy> yeah

19:18 <shevy> defined in a small yaml file

19:18 <manveru> http://pastie.org/private/uno3xyfa2xth2arw5uctpg

19:18 <shevy> but I will make use of your suggestion and look to openstruct :)

19:18 <manveru> well then :)

19:18 <whitequark> manveru: https://gist.github.com/1934508

19:18 <shevy> hmm well it's clean and short

19:18 <manveru> Struct actually works for that too, but you don't want writers

19:19 <manveru> whitequark: aye

19:19 <shevy> kk

19:19 <whitequark> it's not significantly slower

19:19 <shevy> thanks manveru

19:19 <hagabaka> doesn't openstruct use method_missing?

19:20 <manveru> hagabaka: yes

19:20 <manveru> whitequark: it used to be 2x slower or so

19:21 <manveru> whitequark: http://pastie.org/private/etrn2kwitgumqw8wgdjcaw

19:21 <whitequark> manveru: on jruby define_method is faster.

19:22 <manveru> hehe

19:22 <whitequark> eval 0.883000 0.000000 0.883000 ( 0.884000)

19:22 <whitequark> defmeth 0.754000 0.000000 0.754000 ( 0.755000)

19:22 <whitequark> so...

19:22 <whitequark> not a valid reason anymore

19:23 <manveru> it's still slower on rbx

19:23 <manveru> ah, there's the bench i looked for

19:23 <manveru> http://pastie.org/private/cs9gze1bp81flvaqn82pvw

19:24 <manveru> i've collected hundreds of benchmarks over the years

19:24 <manveru> most useless, but hey :)

19:25 <skyjumper> is it possible to use String#gsub with a character other than /

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19:25 <manveru> skyjumper: you mean regex?

19:25 <skyjumper> manveru: yeah

19:25 <manveru> you can use %r() or %r[] or %r{} or %r<> or %rrr or %r|| or %r// etc...

19:26 * skyjumper researches

19:26 <manveru> ok, actually not %rrr :)

19:26 <drbrain> Like %r%foo/bat% ?

19:27 <manveru> the meanest is still %r foo/bar

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19:28 <rippa> pry breaks on it

19:29 <delinquentme> Ok so im trying to *understand* a process thats happening in rails and no such luck in #RoR ... basically there is a gem called 'haml-rails' and on running bundler its supposed to modify a file w a process shown here:

19:29 <delinquentme> https://github.com/indirect/haml-rails/blob/master/lib/haml-rails.rb

19:29 * manveru runs

19:29 <delinquentme> via what method is this actually happening

19:29 <rippa> never though about using spaces there

19:29 <rippa> that's great

19:29 <rippa> a = % foo ;

19:29 <rippa> awesome

19:30 <delinquentme> is bundler invoking rake and using that to write the file ?

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19:30 <rippa> daayum

19:30 <rippa> manveru: a = "%s" % % foo ;

19:31 <rippa> how cool is that

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19:31 <shevy> argh

19:31 <rippa> or even

19:31 <rippa> a = % %s % % foo ;

19:31 <drbrain> Rippa: ha!

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19:36 <drbrain> I wonder if I use String#% in return_bang…

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19:47 <erikh> hello interbutts

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19:55 <whitequark> manveru: ahem

19:55 <whitequark> it's even faster on rbx for me

19:55 <whitequark> eval 0.844053 0.000000 0.844053 ( 0.843274)

19:55 <whitequark> defmeth 0.536034 0.000000 0.536034 ( 0.543801)

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19:57 <whitequark> or, overall

19:57 <whitequark> https://gist.github.com/1934508

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19:59 <hagabaka> what's rbx?

20:00 <hagabaka> oh

20:06 <whitequark> rubinius

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20:30 <dajmon> I am a master’s student performing research at the University of Texas at Austin School of Information. I am observing the channel as part of a study on Ruby culture (IRB Study Number 2011-12-0078). I am not collecting any identifying information. Please feel free to message me if you are interested in participating in a short interview.

20:30 undersc0re has joined #ruby-lang

20:30 <dajmon> You may contact James Howison, the Principal Investigator, via e-mail at %22mailto:jhowison@ischool.u or phone at (512) 232-9219 with questions, comments, or suggestions.”

20:31 <skyjumper> dajmon: i think your email address is cut off

20:31 <dajmon> grr thanks

20:31 <dajmon> file:///Applications/Adium.app/Contents/Resources/Message%20Styles/Stockholm.AdiumMessageStyle/Contents/Resources/%22mailto:jhowison@ischool.u

20:32 <dajmon> did the rest of it send at all or do i need to break it up into shorter pieces?

20:32 <manveru> :)

20:32 <erikh> stop using drag & drop. :)

20:32 <dajmon> i wasn't i just c/ped :(

20:32 <erikh> ouch.

20:33 <manveru> ischool.us

20:33 <manveru> registered in austin, looks about right

20:33 <imperator> doesn't knowing that we're being watched change our behavior? ;)

20:34 <dajmon> i don't know, you tell me :p

20:34 <dajmon> actually they made me revise my proposal to include informing everyone

20:34 <dajmon> so, you know. hi

20:34 * manveru feels a disturbance in the force

20:34 <mistym> Hey!

20:35 <manveru> dajmon: informing everyone on irc is kinda hard

20:35 <dajmon> yeah that's what i said, but they said i should at least try when i enter the channel

20:35 <mistym> And you tried, so mission accomplished!

20:35 <dajmon> anyway in case this part got off i'm also interested in doing non structured interviews so if anyone wants to participate just lemme know

20:35 <imperator> dajmon, are you a programmer as well?

20:36 <dajmon> i'm an information studies student with a little programming experience. for this study i'm actually going to be teaching myself some ruby while hanging out in here

20:36 <manveru> yay

20:36 <imperator> nice

20:36 <dajmon> the idea being that by doing so i will be getting a unique participant observation experience that hasn't really been done in a programming community before as far as i know

20:36 <dajmon> people do it with music, but no one has with a programming language as far as i've found

20:37 <manveru> yeah, people usually just call it quits after counting the number of swearing words used in ruby source files

20:37 <mistym> dajmon: Information studies, eh? What's your focus of study?

20:38 <mistym> manveru: Or heatmapping the keys different programming languages use!

20:38 <dajmon> I'm actually finishing up my master's degree here and switching to a cultural studies PhD program with a focus in digital media

20:38 <dajmon> right now my "focus" is technically digital archives and digital preservation but I'm also coauthoring an intro chapter for a book about online communities

20:38 <manveru> mistym: yeah, nothing is more important for maintaining my handmade keyboard layout :)

20:39 * imperator would love to see a study on programming languages, syntax, aesthetics and its effect on learning

20:39 <mistym> dajmon: digital archives represent!!

20:39 <dajmon> and i'm interested in how people use digital media/technology for different purposes, especially activists + "subversive" communities. ruby is pretty unique so i decided to come hang out with y'all :)

20:39 <dajmon> do you study info studies?

20:40 <imperator> me? no

20:40 <dajmon> sorry - meant mistym

20:41 <mistym> dajmon: I graduated a few years ago.

20:42 <dajmon> oh cool! did you get a job doing digital stuff?

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20:42 <mistym> I did indeed!

20:42 <dajmon> awesome :) another of my projects is helping to revamp the archives curriculum here to include more digital stuff in the main track, so it's always good to hear positive feedback.

20:43 <mistym> That's awesome. I found when I was going through my program that the coverage of digital archival issues was really too superficial and minor, p. much tacked on to the traditional courses.

20:44 <dajmon> the problem here is sort of opposite - there are a few REALLY GOOD and in-depth digital archiving courses that most people are too terrified to take, and no coverage of digital stuff at all in the main courses

20:45 <mistym> Making people not terrified to take the specialized courses would be a nice first step.

20:45 <dajmon> right now students spend their entire archives I semester processing a traditional collection so we're hoping to cut the time spent on that and build in some canned collections of born-digital materials, and to have them install and evaluate different digital tools

20:46 <dajmon> yeah right now you basically get thrown into the deep end of a pool, you spend like 4 weeks immersed in theory and then you get handed a digital collection that is full of unknown problems and you have to solve them

20:47 <dajmon> it doesn't really have wide appeal for obvious reasons, i thought it was fun though. there was one group when i took it who ended up having the Stoned boot sector virus on all of their floppy disks

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20:48 <mistym> Ancient floppy bootsector viruses sound like *my* idea of fun.

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20:51 <dajmon> i know, right! but most people were terrified!

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22:02 <oilpastels> i read somewhere once that we should avoid method names like "get_something", "make_something" or "process_something"

22:02 <oilpastels> is this true? why? and what should we use instead?

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22:03 <skyjumper> something = Something.new; something->make(); something->get()

22:03 <skyjumper> perhaps

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22:05 <oilpastels> hmm coul dbe

22:06 <Mon_Ouie> get_something because the convention is to just use obj.something and obj.something = val for getters and setters

22:07 <oilpastels> that's true

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22:14 <alex_k> so i want to learn ruby

22:15 <alex_k> and I was thinking of starting with - The Well-Grounded Rubyist book

22:15 <deryl> good choice

22:15 <alex_k> cool :)

22:16 <mistym> alex_k: Good choise of language too ;)

22:16 <mistym> Choice even.

22:18 <alex_k> thanks

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22:20 <alex_k> I would like to use ruby for web development and sytem administration commandline tools

22:21 <drbrain> alex_k: rails and chef

22:21 <alex_k> i like the look of this book

22:21 <alex_k> http://pragprog.com/book/dccar/build-awesome-command-line-applications-in-ruby

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23:27 <Jarred> What exactly *is* a symbol?

23:28 <Jarred> It seems like it can be pretty much anything

23:28 <Jarred> but that can't be right because why is there a need for yet another generic type when we have Object?

23:28 <erikh> a symbol is an object that is both immutable and omnipresent

23:28 <erikh> go into irb

23:29 <erikh> enter ':foo.object_id' a few times

23:29 <erikh> notice how the number never changes

23:29 <erikh> then do the same with "foo".object_id

23:29 <Jarred> What's the difference between a constant and an immutable object?

23:29 <erikh> constants hold objects

23:30 <Jarred> An an immutable is just an object?

23:30 <Jarred> er

23:30 <Jarred> an immutable object is just an object

23:30 <Jarred> hmm

23:30 <erikh> right

23:30 <erikh> go do what I said in irb

23:30 <Jarred> Yeah I did

23:30 <erikh> :foo never gets recreated

23:31 <erikh> once it's created, it lingers forever and is reused every time it's referenced

23:31 <erikh> fixnums are this way too.

23:31 <Jarred> So symbols can't be dereferenced whatsoever?

23:31 <erikh> they're objects like any other.

23:31 <erikh> ri Symbol

23:31 <erikh> (they have methods, attributes, etc)

23:31 <Jarred> yeah I see

23:32 <Jarred> How do symbols as methods work though?

23:32 <Jarred> Methods don't always return the same result

23:32 <erikh> they don't.. they're used frequently to reference methods

23:32 <erikh> but they are not methods themselves. methods are objects of type Method

23:32 <Jarred> so they're more like a pointer to the method

23:32 <Jarred> *method?

23:32 <erikh> not really, more like a hash key lookup.

23:33 <drbrain> in the internals, methods have symbols for names

23:34 <Jarred> so with ActiveRecord callbacks

23:34 <Jarred> when I say :before_save

23:34 <Jarred> Is that running the 'before_save' method?

23:34 <Jarred> What does that do exactly?

23:34 <erikh> :before_save is passed to a method, no?

23:34 <Jarred> er yeah

23:34 <Jarred> That's a bad example

23:35 <Jarred> In Rake

23:35 <Jarred> I can use either symbols or strings as the name of a task

23:35 <erikh> right

23:35 <Jarred> Why are they interchangable?

23:35 <Jarred> Is it just because in that situation, a symbol is just a string?

23:35 <erikh> right. honestly? 99% of the type it's because symbols take less typing

23:35 <erikh> s/type/time

23:35 <erikh> sorry, very tired

23:36 <Jarred> lol

23:36 <erikh> using symbols where you want strings is a pretty prevalent antipattern

23:36 <drbrain> erikh: pretty much

23:36 <drbrain> and, again

23:36 <Jarred> I wonder why so many text editor color schemes change the color of symbols then (Which gives it more significance)

23:37 <erikh> well symbols are different

23:37 <Jarred> They should just have it the same color as a string

23:37 <erikh> the problem is ... right

23:37 <erikh> that line of thinking causes this problem

23:37 <erikh> they are very different beasts

23:37 <drbrain> if you've got external input you should just use Strings

23:38 <erikh> the great benefit to symbols: you only have one copy of that "string" in memory. the drawback to symbols: you always have that copy of that "String" in memory

23:38 <erikh> it never gets garbage collected

23:38 <Jarred> lol

23:38 <Jarred> yeah

23:38 <Jarred> but why are symbols used as options so often?

23:39 <erikh> for the reasons stated above

23:39 <imperator> less typing mostly :)

23:39 <erikh> ^

23:39 <Jarred> Part of me thinks it's stupid.

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23:39 <Jarred> But less typing is valuable

23:39 <erikh> that's not an uncommon reaction

23:39 <Jarred> Why don't they just make strings easier to type

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23:39 * imperator blames qwerty

23:39 <brahmana> Hi all

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23:40 <erikh> well, strings have a lot more going on really

23:40 <imperator> brahmana, hello, this is internet

23:40 <erikh> it's harder to embed, say, a newline in a symbol than it is in a string

23:40 <erikh> (not much, but it is harder)

23:40 <brahmana> I observed that the source files in gems have require statements with relative paths. Is that a special case for gem files?

23:41 <brahmana> When I try with my ruby files, requiring the files in the same directory with just the file name doesn't work.

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23:41 <Jarred> imperator: Its a language designer's job to account for the pitfalls of how people are going to express the language (in this case, keyboards)

23:42 <Jarred> (or, part of it at least)

23:42 <erikh> nobody's perfect

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23:42 <brahmana> Is there a setting to tell ruby to look for files in the same directory as that of the file requiring?

23:42 <erikh> ruby -I.

23:42 <erikh> that's a capital i, not a lowercase L

23:42 <imperator> Jarred, you're talking to a guy who thinks we should have unicode literals in core :)

23:43 <brahmana> erikh: Is that done automatically for files in a gem?

23:43 <erikh> no.

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23:43 <erikh> rubygems manipulates the $LOAD_PATH based on other environmental settings

23:44 <erikh> it does this when you "require 'rubygems'" or in 1.9 automatically by default

23:44 <Jarred> erikh: Yeah (at both nobody being perfect and harder to embed newlines), but with the newlines, why not just have a ShortString object? Something that maxes out at 255 characters that could be used as *like* a symbol, so that way symbols would have their own non-lazy use

23:44 <erikh> man

23:44 <erikh> that's the path to java

23:44 <Jarred> I guess

23:44 <Jarred> I guess adding more complexity isn't the solution

23:44 <Jarred> (or, a good solution)

23:44 <erikh> probably not -- enforcing culture is usually more effective

23:44 <Jarred> lol, I thought of Russification when you said that

23:45 <Jarred> (and how ineffective that was)

23:45 <brahmana> erikh: Do you mean to say that rubygems magic is related to path to java?!

23:45 <erikh> dummies will find a new way to junk it up if you take away their dumb option

23:45 <skyjumper> is irb line wrapping goofy for anyone else in GNU Screen?

23:45 <erikh> brahmana: no, I was talking to Jarred

23:45 <brahmana> oh ok

23:45 <imperator> people use screen? ;)

23:45 <skyjumper> everyone uses screen, damnit

23:45 <Jarred> Tmux ftw

23:45 <imperator> EVERYONE

23:46 <skyjumper> yes

23:46 <erikh> I used screen for ages

23:46 <erikh> I use tmux now

23:46 <erikh> as of last week

23:46 <imperator> i think i used it...twice

23:46 <erikh> I'm a hipster

23:46 <Jarred> It has a green bar and I can't scroll in it with MinTTY

23:46 <Jarred> Those are my complaints with it

23:46 <erikh> ^b [

23:46 <skyjumper> Jarred: there's a config flag to enable terminal scrolling

23:46 <erikh> then pgup/pgdn

23:46 <Jarred> It's a very matrix-esque "hacker" green

23:46 <skyjumper> and whatever green bar there is can be disabled

23:46 <erikh> KABLAM

23:46 <erikh> Jarred: they stole that green from hercules

23:47 <erikh> true story

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23:48 <Jarred> It doesn't work still in MinTTY

23:48 <erikh> the tty doesn't do the scrolling

23:48 <erikh> tmux does

23:48 <Jarred> oh

23:48 <erikh> so you can't mousewheel or any of that stuff

23:48 <Jarred> Can I let the TTY do scrolling?

23:48 <Jarred> How would I configure Tmux to let me do that?

23:48 <erikh> maaaaybe, but I doubt it.

23:48 <erikh> I don't know.

23:49 <erikh> you had to do all sorts of termcrap crap to get that to work right in screen, and it completely broke splits and other features

23:50 <erikh> really, your two superior options are 1) learn the tmux history keys or 2) don't use tmux

23:50 <erikh> it's just the way those programs work

23:50 <Jarred> I kinda got it working

23:50 <skyjumper> Jarred: you can configure screen to let mintty do the scrolling

23:51 <brahmana> erikh: Does the $LOAD_PATH modification affect only the files in gems?!

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23:51 <skyjumper> still, does anyone know how to make line wrapping work in irb in screen?

23:51 <Jarred> Will it not work because Tmux hides text, versus putting it all in the terminal?

23:52 <skyjumper> Jarred: yes, that is probably why

23:52 <Jarred> It's amazing how good caffieine makes you feel when you haven't slept enough

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23:54 <Jarred> oh nice

23:54 <Jarred> I got it working well

23:54 <Jarred> set -g terminal-overrides 'xterm*:smcup@:rmcup@'

23:54 <brahmana> erikh: I printed $LOAD_PATH after requiring a gem. The lib/ directory of the gem were added but nothing more than that

23:54 <Jarred> in '~/.tmux.conf"

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23:55 <erikh> brahmana: right, ruby itself can sort the rest out.

23:55 <erikh> Jarred: ah yeah that sounds a lot like the screen solution

23:55 <erikh> sec.

23:56 <erikh> termcapinfo xterm* ti@:te@

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23:59 <brahmana> erikh: Ok.. another look at the source of the gem files made it clear. They do not actually use paths relative to current file directory, but they use paths relative to the gem's lib/ directory. Makes sense now

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23:59 <brahmana> erikh: Thank you