apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p353: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p484) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com || RubyConf 2013 at http://www.justin.tv/confreaks
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<bcardarella> whoever is in charge on ruby-lang.org it is currently redirectng to http://lists.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo www.ruby-lang.org is OK
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<zzak> bcardarella: hsbt has fixed it: http://ruby-lang.org/
<bcardarella> cool
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<whitequark> oh, new website
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<mjc_> font took quite a while to load the first time for me
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<jj_reddit4> Hello there! I need some direction finding a database that has words in a dictionary I can assess in my ruby project
<jj_reddit4> Is there something free on the market?
<pipecloud> "something free on the market" is such an odd way to phrase that you don't want to pay for it.
<pipecloud> So you want a database of words?
<pipecloud> I think Amazon keeps some interesting data sets that are free to use.
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<jj_reddit4> haha excuse my language
<|jemc|> heh
<jj_reddit4> amazon eh?
<jj_reddit4> may I access the db?
<jj_reddit4> or their library
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<pipecloud> It's a dataset.
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<|jemc|> does it still have a card catalog though?
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<whitequark> he quit... could've used /usr/share/dict/words
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: ping
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<epitron> hmmm.. i'm having trouble finding the docs for those string interpolation/formatting codes (like %0.2d)
<epitron> anyone know where that lives and/or what those are called? :)
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<Jamo> afaik it same in C(c++)
<epitron> ah, of course
<epitron> thanks!
<Jamo> np
<Jamo> it would be still nice to have it mentioned in docs...
<yorickpeterse> epitron: `ri String#sprintf`
<epitron> it might be in there somewhere
<epitron> as yorickpeterse has shown :)
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<epitron> Kernel isn't where i expected to find that :)
<MrZYX> String#% has it too iirc
<epitron> it just says to look at Kernel#sprintf
<epitron> s/#/./
<epitron> well, same thing i guess, since Kernel extends itself
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: pong
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: any plans to revive ruby-llvm or is it dead in the water?
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: mm, not sure
<whitequark> what do you need from it?
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: trying to get my other half to agree on just doing MyFirstLanguage in Ruby using LLVM
<yorickpeterse> because I'm pretty much done trying to get anything done in C, C++, D or Rust
<whitequark> other half ?
<yorickpeterse> the other part of my brain
<yorickpeterse> One part wants to get stuff done, the other part has a too big ego and doesn't want to fall back to the "easy" way out
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<yorickpeterse> Either way, ruby-llvm had some issues with the latest LLVM I believe
<yorickpeterse> I remember patching it locally at some point in a train, lets see
<whitequark> I think the latest version it's stable with is 3.3
<whitequark> and 3.4 is not released yet so
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<yorickpeterse> Ah no that was it, the latest Gem release uses LLVM 3.0 I believe
<yorickpeterse> and I have 3.3 installed, so it craps out
<yorickpeterse> had to build from source, which was lol
<yorickpeterse> either way, it doesn't look very active so I'm not sure if I want to depend on it
<yorickpeterse> uses 3.2 no?
<whitequark> well, maintaining it isn't really complex
<whitequark> so you can poke me and I'll fix it
<whitequark> that should take a few hours max
* yorickpeterse pokes whitequark a lot
<yorickpeterse> also y u cancel foundry :<
<whitequark> open an issue
<whitequark> I've explained why
<yorickpeterse> oki
<yorickpeterse> heh
<yorickpeterse> Now I have to do that :<
<yorickpeterse> (as in, making a compiled Ruby sort of)
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<yorickpeterse> Rust looks neat but the pointer system is just too much of a clusterfuck
<yorickpeterse> e.g. it gets messy if you want to store borrowed pointers somewhere
<yorickpeterse> like, really messy
<whitequark> well, duh
<whitequark> that's a featuer
<whitequark> *feature
<yorickpeterse> pub struct HerpDerp<'X> { foo: <&'L LOL<'L>> }
<yorickpeterse> lik srsly
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<yorickpeterse> errr
<yorickpeterse> s/X/L
<yorickpeterse> s/LOL/HerpDerp
<yorickpeterse> whatever
<yorickpeterse> either way, it's that or, apparently, reference counting
<yorickpeterse> of course the latter has zero docs
<yorickpeterse> and @foo is being removed apparently, already disabled in master
<whitequark> yes, there's a flurry of changes in the managed pointer system
<whitequark> I'm waiting until it figures itself out
<yorickpeterse> maybe I should learn Ocaml
<yorickpeterse> D is...too weird
<whitequark> weird ?
<yorickpeterse> plus the state of third-party packages is very mixed
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<yorickpeterse> well for example, a lot of the stdlib relies on templates which results in weird code at times
<whitequark> that's C++ for you
<yorickpeterse> converting types can be done in different ways though not everything works as you'd expect
<r0bgleeson> yorickpeterse: why not C, out of curiousty? i thought it'd be a good language to build a simple VM on
<yorickpeterse> you want `int -> str`? ok lol `import std.conv; to!string(int_value_here)`
<yorickpeterse> r0bgleeson: I'd have to re-invent the entire planet first
<whitequark> r0bgleeson: C is never a good language.
<yorickpeterse> C is a car without wheels
<whitequark> C is sometimes an acceptable one :p
<yorickpeterse> and there's 500 wheels to choose from, of which 400 are written using macros
<yorickpeterse> I actually started out with C
<yorickpeterse> fuckit, making this repo public so you can all laugh
<r0bgleeson> yeah it is very small
<yorickpeterse> https://github.com/YorickPeterse/gaia so this is the current state, sort-of sort of works
<yorickpeterse> lemme see if I actually pushed the C code at some point
<r0bgleeson> i appreciate C for what it is, I'd love to be better at it
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<yorickpeterse> hm no, never pushed the C code to this repo
<yorickpeterse> https://github.com/YorickPeterse/gaia/blob/master/source/gaia/templates/method_dispatch.d this is pretty fun though, but at the same time I hate it
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<yorickpeterse> generates a switch() statement :D
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<yorickpeterse> so I can do shit similar to Object#send
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<r0bgleeson> your language has semi-colons? UNACCEPTABLE.
<yorickpeterse> Rust has them too
<yorickpeterse> they use it for skipping return values...worst design ever
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<yorickpeterse> e.g. fn foo() -> int { 10; } // => returns nothing I believe`
<r0bgleeson> heh
<yorickpeterse> but { 10 } does
<r0bgleeson> thats quirky
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<yorickpeterse> well, at least I can safely say I've had my share of C, C++, D and Rust
<r0bgleeson> i have no idea what that does but it makes my head hurt
<yorickpeterse> I believe that returns a pointer that lives as long as `self` lives essentially
<yorickpeterse> but yeah, it's super confusing at times
<yorickpeterse> There's also no union and no sub-typing, which can be really annoying
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<r0bgleeson> yorickpeterse: i read a good tweet that said something along the lines of I like Go because it has a simplicity akin to C but Rust reminds me of demented C++
<yorickpeterse> I'm not going anywhere near Go
<r0bgleeson> how come?
<yorickpeterse> it's error handling is batshit stupid
<r0bgleeson> oh yeah
<r0bgleeson> that does seem annoying to manage
<yorickpeterse> Rust goes a bit further though, it introduces 3 error handling concepts and then a 4th (or 3rd) that basically mixes those together
<r0bgleeson> yeah that's too much for me
<yorickpeterse> the last one is sort of like exception handling
<r0bgleeson> i like simple
<r0bgleeson> i don't really want another C#/Java
<yorickpeterse> it's not, it's not as bloated just yet
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<yorickpeterse> It has potential but they seriously need to reduce the Perl factor that the syntax has
<r0bgleeson> as a language it sounds like it introduces some pretty complex concepts
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<yorickpeterse> D might have a GC and its quirks, but for a systems language it's not that hard to use
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<yorickpeterse> though its stack traces are hilariously bad
<r0bgleeson> D has been around for a long time
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<r0bgleeson> I had a book called "Tango with D"
<r0bgleeson> back then it was a bit all over the place
<r0bgleeson> they didnt have one stdlib to go with
<yorickpeterse> http://hastebin.com/raw/daqenaxede this is an index error
<yorickpeterse> note that that's one of the less bad ones
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<yorickpeterse> if you have a segfault they go completely bonkers
<r0bgleeson> there's no line number?
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<yorickpeterse> nope
<yorickpeterse> you'd be glad if the top level frame has one
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<yorickpeterse> s/glad/lucky
<r0bgleeson> uh
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<r0bgleeson> not sure id be bothered dealing with that
<yorickpeterse> *apprently* you can install a SIGSEGV handler but I have no idea how
<yorickpeterse> so you can show custom stuff like MRI does for example
<yorickpeterse> stuff like this is what annoys me about D, it could be a nice language but it's just C++ done slightly less fucked up
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: how bad are Ocaml stacktraces?
<r0bgleeson> i think tender love wrote a SIGSEGV handler for ruby
<r0bgleeson> so you could ignore it.....
<yorickpeterse> I think charliesome had his part in that too
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: stacktraces are okay
<whitequark> but you need to compile in debug+bytecode mode to get complete ones
<whitequark> it's not a problem in practice, just a gotcha
<whitequark> realworldocaml.org
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