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<jhass>
jdecuirm: more a style thing but you should return false from it, so just drop the if around it, the condition itself will already return true/false
<jhass>
maybe your parser just doesn't work? :P
<jdecuirm>
lol
<apeiros_>
jdecuirm: I'm not quite sure why you think <#<Sentence:0x0000000192ad00 @obj="sandwich", @subject="jorge", @verb="eats">> and <#<Sentence:0x0000000192ac38 @obj="a", @subject="o", @verb="a">> should be equal
<jdecuirm>
it parses i swear
<apeiros_>
jdecuirm: they seem to be different in every regard
<jdecuirm>
the result is the expected if i run the parser
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<eta8>
I can't remember how I got a filename from Tk.getOpenFile yesterday. I had a TkVariable but I can remember how I assigned to the value of the filename to it.
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<eta8>
it's driving me nuts because i did it yesterday afternoon and now im trying to remember it while working on a script at work.
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<eta8>
welp, i figured it out
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<eta8>
I needed to assign it to Tk.getOpenFile inside my Proc
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<enders>
Hi! I'm currently trying to move some ruby code into a C extension for performance, and I have some questions... is this a proper place to ask? Thanks!
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<|jemc|>
enders: sure, you can ask here, although depending on what you're doing, you might want to try ruby-ffi instead of a C ext
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<|jemc|>
you'll have an easier time with implementations other than MRI (like Rubinius and JRuby), and you may have a cleaner solution
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<rkowalick>
I should read up on ruby-ffi
<rkowalick>
lol
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<enders>
I see. Rubinius and JRuby are certainly an option, but the last time I tried rbx, I ended up pulling my hair getting our Rails app to run. I will give it another try someday.
<Senjai>
ffi ftw
<|jemc|>
enders: you're free to do whatever you like, and there are many viable C exts, but I just wanted to give you a taste of some of the tradeoffs
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<enders>
I am currently trying to figure out what's the expected approach to share data between C land and Ruby land. For instance, I have an array of structs I want to work with in C-land, am I supposed to keep calling rb_ary_entry to access elements of the array, and then rb_funcall to access values in the structs?
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<enders>
My gut feeling is that this way, I won't get much of the performance improvements I'm looking for, because I assume MRI is already doing that when running my ruby code.
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<|jemc|>
enders: if you're trying to develop a strategy to increase performance, can you talk a little about your problem space and how you're trying to solve it?
<|jemc|>
also, if you haven't already, be sure to profile your code to start identifying the bottlenecks
<enders>
Sure, I'm working with direct graphs and in this specific instance, I'm focusing on the part of the code that is looking for cycles. I have ended up implementing one of the optimal algorithm for this, Tarjan's strongly connected component detection, and there isn't much I can do to improve the code, it's not slow per say, it's just one of the slow part of the overall app.
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<Senjai>
enders: We've done some things that dont even involve an extension. We've actually just compiled a seperate program that ruby shells out to with arguments for certain computationally intensive tasks
<Senjai>
That may or may not help you
<Senjai>
enders: Also, code would help :P
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<enders>
https://gist.github.com/Enders/2409cc6164a3f69c4478, this can give you an idea of the code I'm trying to convert to C, of course, it's a bit lacking in context, 'checkpoints' is a method that return the array of checkpoint (AR classes here, Struct in the gem I'm extracting), children/parents returns simple arrays of the same instances of checkpoints, I assume the rest is pretty straightforward
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<weaksauce>
enders how big is the graph?
<weaksauce>
or a typical one
<enders>
~50 nodes, nodes have usually 2-3 children
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<weaksauce>
how many times is this called?
<Senjai>
enders: You're doing somethings twice
<weaksauce>
can you cache the results of it or is it happening many times and changing quickly?
<Senjai>
check_for_cycles os O(2) when it can be O(1)
<weaksauce>
Senjai you don't want to check until all the nodes are reset and O(2) is still O(1)
<enders>
Hmm, it can be called thousands of times per second or a single time a day depending on the webserver activity, we have many customers and they have a very distateful habit to use our API to update their workflows in very silly ways :) (Users, lol, amirite)
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<weaksauce>
ah I see.
<Senjai>
weaksauce: Bleh, right. I cant type today for some reason
<Senjai>
enders: thousands? Ruby is not the ideal solution here.
<enders>
I agree, but I have been looking around for free money to rewrite the codebase and our kickstarter has failed for some reason ;)
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<enders>
More seriously, this is why I'm looking at a C extension
<enders>
Because this algorithm is just one of the 3 that are currently killing our performances for what is otherwise a simple "project management webapp" like many others
<enders>
The other one is in similar vein, calculating critical path in the graph, and the last one is a beast that calculates dates based on the constraints defined in the graph
<hagabaka>
why do you need to use this so often?
<weaksauce>
interesting. what's the use case for strongly connected components in a project management app?
<Senjai>
enders: Eww, kickstarters
<enders>
Senjai, it was a joke, sorry if it wasn't clear :)
<enders>
Cool! Thank you for that. I'll have to check the performance because it's not necessarily better, in the sense that 1) I need to convert to an adequate structure for TSort, 2) This calculates the SCC, we actually don't need that, we need to find the first SCC that contains more than one node (itself), which indicates a loop, so there is some wasted calculation
<weaksauce>
written in ruby though by the looks of it
<enders>
But if it's well implemented, it can probably outperform our potato version
<enders>
Unfortunately, that won't help me much because I still need to improve the perf on the main algorithm, and unless there is also a GANTT with backward constraints (X must happen Z days before Y) in the stdlib, I'm back to square 1 :(
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<enders>
(on a sidenote, I haven't been on IRC in like 10 years, this is so much fun :))
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<weaksauce>
on another side note... first time I have seen big oh notation in the ruby channels in a long time
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<rkowalick>
This is an awesome discussion
<Senjai>
weaksauce: We dont normally care about performance
<rkowalick>
I've just been listening
<Senjai>
THIS IS RUBY
<weaksauce>
^
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<enders>
Do you usually see direct performance improvements translation ruby code to "ruby.h" based C code?
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<enders>
That would settle the debate if that's not the case :)
<pipework>
enders: Only if the c code performs better.
<Senjai>
C is many many times faster. but you can write C code that is shitty so..
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<hagabaka>
if you just translate Ruby into Ruby C API calls, I don't think it will improve much
<Senjai>
Aye
<enders>
Many times faster sounds like what I'm looking for. The C code that will be produced will be on par with the ruby code in terms of shittiness :)
<Senjai>
You want to use the least amount of ruby possible
<enders>
I see
<Senjai>
enders: Someone should have already implimented this in C, just look for it before attempting it yourself
<Senjai>
rkowalick: Lurkerlevel++
<hagabaka>
but converting data from "pure C" to Ruby will take time too so it might not be worth it
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<enders>
Senjai, if they already have implemented it, then our company has other issues than performances :)
<Senjai>
enders: The algorithm
<Senjai>
not the way you're using it
<enders>
The cycle detection and critical path are common concepts, so they probably do exist, but I'm only doing those as POC that the conversion is worth it
<|jemc|>
enders: yeah, if you want to go the C route and get the benefits you're looking for, it sounds like you want to construct a pure C graph and traverse it in C
<|jemc|>
with ruby only querying the traversal functions and using the result
<enders>
I see. So am I supposed to first make a function that converts the array of ruby structs to a pure C array by calling repeateadly rb_funcall and rb_ary_ref as a first step of the algorithm?
<enders>
That sounds actionnable
<havenwood>
enders: Is JRuby an option?
<|jemc|>
alternatively, you might try running your app on rbx to see - the JIT (and concurrency, if you have parallel code) may help you out more than you think - if you run into incompatibilities, I can help you out with them
<Senjai>
enders: Ideally, you only have two interactions with the ruby api. Converting it from ruby, to do things, and converting the result back toruby
<Senjai>
enders: Dont do jruby :(
<havenwood>
enders: You usually see performance improvements in JRuby. If you don't need the 7% of the language that JRuby+Truffle has still to implement, you're really in luck.
<Senjai>
havenwood: If I need to use jruby, I dont need to use ruby, I need to use something better aimed at that type of problem
<enders>
Isn't JRuby still stick in 1.9.x land until JRuby9000?
<Senjai>
I also dont want to worry about gem compatability, and language features being missing
<havenwood>
enders: jruby-9.0.0.0-pre1 is out, *soon*
<|jemc|>
enders: rbx-2.x implements ruby 2.1 currently
<|jemc|>
(except refinements)
<enders>
Last time I tried jruby stable, the server didn't boot, I fixed some of the issues, but after a day, I just called it, and went back to MRI. Same story with rbx, with different issues, I should have kept note of the specifics and asked for help, but for what was working, I didn't see much performance improvement so I just threw away the baby with the water.
<havenwood>
Senjai: I've found the gem situation to be quite good. I guess that depends on the gems you're using.
<weaksauce>
enders one low hanging fruit is the include? call to the array... that's O(n) you could add the node to a different structure as well, say a hash, and query that but still have your stack be in the right order
<pipework>
enders: 9000 is in a pre release.
<pipework>
Yeah, inexperience with jruby often leads to people thinking jruby sucks.
<Senjai>
havenwood: I'm just a fan of solidarity. Ruby solves the problems its designed to perfectly
<enders>
I'm not confident putting production in something in pre-release, we have enough issues as it is :)
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<Senjai>
havenwood: Instead, we now have all of this talent, diverged from ruby proper
<Senjai>
for little to no extra value
<pipework>
enders: Having used pre-9000 a lot, it's pretty great.
<Senjai>
because the reason they've diverged, is to solve problems, other solutions are better geared tosolve
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<pipework>
Do what makes you happy though. Jruby makes me pretty happy.
<|jemc|>
Senjai: a lot of interesting work comes out of the competition/collaboration of multiple implementations
<enders>
Hmm. I like JRuby 9000 approach, I have seen some of their talks on confreaks. I guess it can't hurt to give it another try. I mean, except hurt my free time.
<Senjai>
|jemc|: I'd rather compete with actual competitors. Like Python
<|jemc|>
Senjai: for example, JRuby's Truffle uses a large part of the Rubinius kernel
<enders>
@weaksauce, thank you for the suggestion
<|jemc|>
Senjai: diversity is strength - the freedom to work toward goals outside of a single project will lead to better solutions
<pipework>
Mmm, new jruby stuff.
<pipework>
And the jruby team are some of the nicest and most approachable language implementors for ruby I've talked to. Not that cruby isn't, but I've not enjoyed some other implementors.
<|jemc|>
where the MRI team's leadership misses the mark, one of the other projects may find good solutions, and vice versa
<|jemc|>
we learn and grow by trying out new ways to do the same thing and comparing notes
<pipework>
JRuby's method cache > ruby's until 2.1 or 2.2
<Senjai>
|jemc|: I'm not saying no value comes out of it. But it adds an immense amount of work to make things work on several thousand implimentations, and support all the different nuances
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<pipework>
Senjai: There's like 3 that matter today, and a few less important ones.
<enders>
(we are currently sporting ruby 2.2 in production, getting ready for Rails 5)
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<pipework>
Besides the non-canonical implementations try their best to support the interface the canonical one uses.
<pipework>
cruby tends to just do its thing, but I hear that they're getting better at collaborating last I talked with anyone about that.
<pipework>
rbx might depart a bit more often though.
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<Senjai>
pipework: Leave my hyperboles alone!
<hagabaka>
are you sure this algorithm is the slow part, not the rest of the app or rails?
<Senjai>
cruby does its own thing because it is the original ruby. I get what you two are saying and they're valid points.
<Senjai>
That's all I'm asking yall to acknowledge
<Senjai>
Lies, comcast is never happy
<havenwood>
Senjai: touche
<|jemc|>
Senjai: if you want greater solidarity within a group, it's up to the leadership to find ways to encourage solidarity and encourage talent and ideas to stay within the group
<pipework>
I like the shinies from alternative implementations too much to feel much dedication to cruby.
<pipework>
Where's hbase's company's logo?
<|jemc|>
Senjai: if individuals in the group feel their ideas and talent are better spent elsewhere (less resistance) they will always do so
<pipework>
Is it Oracle?
<enders>
hagabaka: the SCC algorithm isn't the slow part, it's slow, but it's very fast compared to the one part that is killing our performance, the constraint solver. The reason I picked this as a POC is that it's still slow (for some complex WF, it can take up to 20% of the complete request time) and it uses the same data as the main algorithm so I think it's a good case study. Sorry if that was confusing.
<havenwood>
enders: Then in JRuby use a Clojure Treeducer just for fun times. :P
<pipework>
Mmm JVM interop
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<enders>
I've got to go, I'll be back later. Thanks for the ideas! I'll put JRuby, stdlib TSort and converting the Array of Ruby structs to pure C in the list of things to try.
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<DynamicMetaFlow>
Can anyone explain to me how I can get the list of boards from this method
<DynamicMetaFlow>
I do print Trello::Board.all I get the whole list in terminal but comes out in a way where I can't see it properly
<DynamicMetaFlow>
I want to get a list of board and then put it in a hash or something similar so the user can press the respective key (1) - Main Board (2) - Calendar and choose the board
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<DynamicMetaFlow>
or do something lie " -b Main " where -b stands for board
<Senjai>
DynamicMetaFlow: You asked this yesterday
<Senjai>
When you print things out in console, you get the .inspected version. I would read the docs on what methods a "board" exposed to you
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<DynamicMetaFlow>
I apologize for asking again, I just wanted to take a short break from learning about Ruby and work on my project for a bit. I'll do what you said