<Casty>
hey guys i'm learning ruby/rails. i'm making a calculator to train and made a method that can parse a string like "5 + 6 * 2" and compute it. i made a simple javascript front but can't figure out how to pass the value of the text box to my method. is this hard to do?
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<jhass>
?rails
<ruboto>
Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
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<Casty>
ah ok thanks
<RickHull>
Casty: your text box is a form input. when you hit submit, it sends a POST request to the webserver (rails)
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<RickHull>
rails will then, based on routing rules and such, call the correct method to handle it
<Ox0dea>
jhass: Bit heavy for a calculator, no?
<RickHull>
calculator is an exercise to learn rails, here
<Ox0dea>
I derped pretty hard there.
<Casty>
oh well actually i'm not posting the form. but i guess that makes sense. until i would the value is still just client side. thanks
<ruboto>
pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
<ruby-lang087>
want to take a list of IPs/hostnames in a file and use net::ssh to execute a command
<ruby-lang087>
aoutput the result
<ruby-lang087>
and output the result**
<RickHull>
net/ssh is pretty tricky
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<ruby-lang087>
lol why the hell do you hate pastebin?
<cosmicfires>
I can redirect the output with >
<ruby-lang087>
weird
<RickHull>
ruby-lang087: quote: pastebin.com loads slowly for most, has ads which are distracting and has terrible formatting.
<ruby-lang087>
Alrighty, will keep in mind :)
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<RickHull>
if you want people to read what you write, it helps to read what they write ;)
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<RickHull>
cosmicfires: ok, so take something you know works, like `ls`
<RickHull>
and try using it with tee
<shevy>
ruby-lang087 the more convenient you make it for other people to read it, the more likely it will be that they (a) can help and (b) will want to help
<cosmicfires>
that works
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<shevy>
that code looks like dynamic constant assignment, are you sure it works?
<RickHull>
cosmicfires: ok, so show your example where your program redirects STDOUT to a file
<RickHull>
i.e. just the cmdline session
<RickHull>
e.g. my_script.rb > /tmp/output; cat output
<ruby-lang087>
I am trying to cut my programming teeth on ruby
<ruby-lang087>
so what I am doing might be really bad
<cosmicfires>
ls | tee net.status.log
<ruby-lang087>
I know not what I do
<cosmicfires>
that works
<shevy>
yeah
<ruby-lang087>
but trying to know
<RickHull>
cosmicfires: use gist.github.com
<shevy>
your code does not seem to make any sense to me
<shevy>
you essentially try to do two things here:
<cosmicfires>
you want the whole program?
<shevy>
- handle ARGV input given to your script
<shevy>
- send data based on ARGV into a Net::SSH.start() call
<shevy>
right?
<RickHull>
cosmicfires: just your CLI sessions
<shevy>
oh wait
<ruby-lang087>
yes, namely the line item contents of a file
<shevy>
you actually try to read in a file
<ruby-lang087>
say, hosts.txt
<RickHull>
where you demonstrate that file redirection works
<shevy>
ruby-lang087 ok, first suggestion: put this into a method
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<shevy>
in the method, default to 'hosts.txt'
<shevy>
thus if you omit ARGV, it will use that name
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<shevy>
inside that method, process the data until you can send it into Net::SSH.start()
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<RickHull>
ruby-lang087: use lowercase for variables you want to assign to
<RickHull>
uppercase denotes a constant, which is not what you want here
<RickHull>
e.g. host, user rather than HOST, USER
<RickHull>
i would then do something like: host = i.chomp; puts host
<RickHull>
note that puts automatically adds a newline, whereas print does not. you almost certainly want puts
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<RickHull>
stick that in xml.erb file
<RickHull>
then call erb --value=bar xml.erb
<RickHull>
NOPE
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<RickHull>
technically it would be <%= value %> or w/e
<RickHull>
i mean, wouldn't that be the most basic use case?
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<RickHull>
that is, if i didn't give a shit about ruby and only cared about templating
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<rgb-one>
RickHull: Ah. I actually do have an understanding of yield after using it in the main layout.haml file to retrieve content from index.haml. I suppose yield partials as well.
<RickHull>
the problem is, erb assumes you have an entire ruby ecosystem generating template values, and it will hook into that
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<RickHull>
rgb-one: cool, still got a question?
<rgb-one>
Yea I will clarify in a bit.
<pontiki>
hi o/
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<RickHull>
pontiki: is that like contiki pon da floor?
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<pontiki>
no
<RickHull>
:(
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<shevy>
it's more like pocahontas RickHull
<RickHull>
oh no, i'm ineligible for contiki in 2 weeks
<ruby-lang087>
all great stuff, you guys have been most helpful
<shevy>
there used to be ponbiki here as well
<RickHull>
more like poke-a-hotness amirite?
<shevy>
poke anything anyway
<ruby-lang087>
I've always liked tabs for indentation for some reason
* RickHull
poke
<ruby-lang087>
but I guess they are overkill
<RickHull>
ruby-lang087: nothing wrong with the TAB key
<RickHull>
but don't put TAB chars in source control
<RickHull>
make your editor convert TAB key to 2 spaces
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<RickHull>
or do auto-indent to 2 spaces
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<shevy>
ruby-lang087 I used to be a tabster as well
<shevy>
until I started to align comments
<shevy>
then it no longer worked
<shevy>
then I wondered why I was using tabs anyway
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<RickHull>
ruby-lang087: what editor are you using?
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<pontiki>
why not just let the editor do it, as RickHull says
<RickHull>
well, when you're just getting started with a new lang, it's hard to know which editor to use or how to do the right thing for you language
<pontiki>
it is?
<RickHull>
yes, and beyond that, it's hard to know how much the editor *can* do for your lang
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<pontiki>
i don't switch editors for new languages...
<pontiki>
i didn't know people did that, even
<RickHull>
i'm guessing if you went from C# to ruby
<RickHull>
you might switch editors
<pontiki>
it's be the other way if i did, but i'd probably still use emacs
<RickHull>
emacs is the One True Editor
<shevy>
it's also a good OS
<RickHull>
but still, ruby-lang087 is new to ruby
<shevy>
he uses notepad
<RickHull>
and we don't know his background
<RickHull>
(or her)
<shevy>
((or it))
<RickHull>
notebad > visual studio, so that's a start
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<pontiki>
plain old windows notepad?
<pontiki>
not notepad++
<pontiki>
?
<rgb-one>
With the `= yield` statement I have come across so far, the content of external files is loaded. For example, The content of an index.haml file is yielded from a `layout.haml` file to produce resulting html file with both of the content integrated when compiled. In the context shown above (= yield_content :head), what exactly does yield_content do?
<RickHull>
i'd rather teach a newbie starting from notepad than VS
<pontiki>
i admit i've never developed on windows
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<lampd1>
hey all; so, I'm drawing a blank... how would one cast the current browser window width/height from a sinatra frontend into the ruby app running it?
<shevy>
rgb-one you must look up the API docu for that method
<pontiki>
so i don't know what VS would be like. my sense is it's like xcode and eclipse, though
<shevy>
it is a custom method after all
<RickHull>
pontiki: close enough
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<RickHull>
rgb-one: yeah, consult the docs. there are many forms
<RickHull>
but almost always there will be API/reference docs
<RickHull>
that cover classes and methods
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<lampd1>
oh doi; just ajax that junk in there
* lampd1
is a doofus
<lampd1>
been a long day; and i spent most of it writing C#
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<RickHull>
lampd1: using what editor?
<lampd1>
monodevelop
<RickHull>
use it for ruby too?
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<lampd1>
nah
<lampd1>
vim
<lampd1>
and cant stand mono without vim
<RickHull>
cool, just checking :)
<lampd1>
mod
<lampd1>
e*
<lampd1>
jeez
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<lampd1>
i'd use VS but i'm writing C# on a mac :P
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<RickHull>
lolz
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<RickHull>
is this because of the new .NET open source push?
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<lampd1>
unity3d :)
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<lampd1>
i aint doin web in C# that's cray talk
<lampd1>
:D
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<lampd1>
working on a sidekiq/sinatra/rmagic image processor to embed in a unity game haha
<ScriptGeek>
how to check if a character is equal to the ESC key character?
<rgb-one>
:) Thanks, the docs were helpful.
<ScriptGeek>
if character == '\e'
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<ruby-lang087>
RickHull: Would you shame me too greatly if I said textwrangler? ;p
<ScriptGeek>
is that supposed to work?
<pontiki>
textwrangler is a damn fine editor on the mac
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<ruby-lang087>
I'm new to programming in general, I mean I've done some bash one-liners and I can do markup like crazy and I've done some pretty mundane stuff that took form inputs and made consistent ebay listings and whatnot
<ruby-lang087>
but with ruby I am trying to actually learn to program
<ScriptGeek>
ruby is pretty cool
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<lampd1>
ruby-lang087: play with some async job processing
<lampd1>
it's fun to do functional stuff w/ it
<lampd1>
:)
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<lampd1>
i.e. sidekiq/resque
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<lampd1>
then add some shit on top of that
<lampd1>
*bam*
<lampd1>
you got a cool async functional processing setup
<lampd1>
and probably a good place to start in terms of ruby web
<lampd1>
can make a website, get familiar with ruby; and then look @ rails and decide if you want to invest time in it or not
<pontiki>
i did my resume site in middleman
<pontiki>
quite nice working with it, really
<lampd1>
yeah; i like it
<lampd1>
esp tying it into APIs
<lampd1>
to make lightweight webapps
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<lampd1>
having a backend on a webapp = technical debt
<lampd1>
:P
<pontiki>
anything you create accrues technical debt
<lampd1>
yeah; but storage of data is the most concerning
<lampd1>
and offloading that piece is nice
<lampd1>
at least imo
<lampd1>
but then you have to worry about the API going *poof* :P
<ScriptGeek>
al2o3-cr: awesome, thanks for the tip!
<lampd1>
since it aint under your control
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<RickHull>
eh, just use gh-pages for resume, etc
<al2o3-cr>
ScriptGeek: :)
<Obfuscate>
lampd1: The main problem with a static site frontend that loads all its content with javascript/ajax is that your SEO now sucks.
<pontiki>
unless your app needs no persistence, you're always going to need a backend somewhere, even if it's local storage
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<lampd1>
API == backend
<lampd1>
like a web API
<RickHull>
Obfuscate: i am confuse. a static site should be more SEO friendly than dynamic site
<lampd1>
contentful; etc
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<RickHull>
what static site "loads all its content with javascript" ?
<pontiki>
i don't understand your previous statement then, lampd1
<lampd1>
I'm not talking a single page app Obfuscate ; static sites simply mean js/html/css
<lampd1>
which one
<lampd1>
there were many
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<pontiki>
[22:19:14] <lampd1>having a backend on a webapp = technical debt
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<pontiki>
that one
<lampd1>
like... say you want to build a site that plays music
<pontiki>
that seems quite meaningless
<lampd1>
instead of uploading songs to your server; figuring out how to be able to curate them and manage your page; you could offload the curation and storage process to soundcloud
<lampd1>
*for free*
<lampd1>
with high availability; and quick load times
<Obfuscate>
RickHull: Consider it in the context of what middleman does: the goal is to serve purely static html/js/css on the frontend, and rely on js to fetch your dynamic content from somewhere else.
<pontiki>
how does that alleviate technical debt?
<lampd1>
and then simple interface with a JS/HTML API
<RickHull>
Obfuscate: ah, i think i'm lacking that context
<lampd1>
because you're using javascript and css....
<lampd1>
and html
<lampd1>
and not an additional language; nor having to worry nearly as much about _Security_
<pontiki>
your contention is there's no technical debt in developing in those technologies?
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<lampd1>
no; I'm saying there's less
<lampd1>
less technical debt by owning less of the technologies behind what you're building
<lampd1>
it's like 1/2 SaaS
<lampd1>
:P
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<RickHull>
pontiki: generally, most people talk about technical debt in terms of, i'll do this quickly now and pay it back later
<lampd1>
I call it AaaS
<RickHull>
not in terms of, if i build it now, i have to support it later
<pontiki>
that's what causes technical debt to increase, RickHull
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<RickHull>
pontiki: your perspective seems to be, whatever you build, you have to support. and that's technical debt
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<lampd1>
what would you call it RickHull ?
<pontiki>
so you are just agreeing with me?
<RickHull>
but my perspective says, things built properly incur no technical debt
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<RickHull>
technical debt is only when you've taken the quick'n'dirty route
<RickHull>
gimme the money now, i'll pay it back later
<lampd1>
pretty much nothing is built 100% properly tho
<pontiki>
RickHull: then you throw that away when you needs change, you understand more, you learn more?
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<lampd1>
and using someone elses curation/data storage/db patterns can have its uses
<RickHull>
i would say that as you build stuff, your technical load increases
<lampd1>
esp. if it's already proven to host a prominent webservice
<RickHull>
but that's not necessarily technical debt
<RickHull>
debit is only "easy money"
<RickHull>
*debt
<pontiki>
i think that's rather naive
<Obfuscate>
RickHull: You're leaning against web technologies; there's no such thing as "properly".
<RickHull>
where you sacrifice the long-term in favor of the short-term
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<RickHull>
Obfuscate: you're misreading me. i am saying you only incur "debt" when you consciously choose the quick'n'dirty route
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<RickHull>
choosing fast X over proper Y
<lampd1>
I'm simply advocating the centralization/specialization of data storage by type
<pontiki>
you seem to be claiming you'll always have perfect knowledge and perfect technologies to implement what you want
<Obfuscate>
RickHull: I'm saying you incur debt the second you touch javascript.
<RickHull>
Obfuscate: i don't disagree ;)
<lampd1>
like; why reinvent the song storage/library wheel when someone lets you use their wheel that's been time proven
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<pontiki>
you're also sounding like a one-trick pony, lampd1
<lampd1>
haha
<RickHull>
pontiki: not assuming perfect info. just that incurring debit is a conscious *choice*
<lampd1>
pontiki: if that's what you think then your vision isn't what you think it is
<pontiki>
if that's all then yes
<RickHull>
whatever you build, it will be a load. it's only a debt if you chose the quick'n'dirty route explicitly
<lampd1>
so you're saying Obfuscate that more languages/more complication in a stack = less technical debt?
<lampd1>
and that you can use ruby to build a perfectly capable webapp and _never_ touch JS?
<shevy>
just use PHP already
<RickHull>
if you didn't have an alternative, if this is the only route ("web technologies"), it's hard to say you incurred a debt
<pontiki>
lampd1: so you say that someone else will always have the back end for the application you're building, and every app you make is going to use someone else's data store? who's limited?
<lampd1>
pontiki: i qualified that early on
<lampd1>
having to worry about your storage going *poff*
<lampd1>
s/*poff*/*poof*/
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<Obfuscate>
lampd1: No. I'm not sure how you arrived there from my statements.
<RickHull>
or the API, or the service provider
<pontiki>
or not existing at all?
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<lampd1>
read the tos; think about your project; think about the API/services' promininence
<pontiki>
sure, of course, if someone provides an api for you to use, use it
<lampd1>
decide if it's worth it to build your own or use it
<pontiki>
but that's not saying much of anything
<lampd1>
heh
<RickHull>
well who's saying much of anything anyway?
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<pontiki>
but it seems worth saying anyway?
<RickHull>
i'm saying: 1. building X does not imply that X necessarily incurs technical debt. there is a support load, but not necessarily debt
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<RickHull>
if you build X, X will have a support load. i think we can all agree. the question is whether load === debt
<lampd1>
i'm saying that you can build X with less support load; and have someone else to point a finger at if you do so; by simply generating static sites with middleman using JS APIs to build fairly content rich sites
<pontiki>
and i'm saying without perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, all the time in the world, you will practically have to make tradeoffs
<lampd1>
and that ruby is more fun to do functional programming ;)
<lampd1>
i'm not saying it's better
<lampd1>
i'm saying it's _way_ easier
<RickHull>
i just want to say that i like how we're all saying stuff xD
<pontiki>
lampd1: that's something i very much agree with
<pontiki>
it's just not a world i work in and get paid for
<pontiki>
shall we switch positions and talk from each other's point of view?
<RickHull>
pontiki: engineering is certainly a world without certainty other than the certainty of making tradeoffs :)
<RickHull>
pontiki: i'll take that turing test :)
<pontiki>
more like a Greek test
<lampd1>
pontiki: do you do rails dev?
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<pontiki>
i do
<lampd1>
you have any suggestions for free rails courses?
<pontiki>
and angular and plain ruby, perl
<lampd1>
I've only really done rails for zombies
<lampd1>
and only once
<pontiki>
hartl's is free online
<pontiki>
i haven't seen rails for zombies, but i've heard it's good
<shevy>
are you a zombie
* RickHull
zombie
* shevy
readies shotgun
<pontiki>
no, i've got my circket bat, right here, tho
* RickHull
looks down the barrel
<pontiki>
cricket*
<pontiki>
i don't know if i like angular, tho
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<pontiki>
but it might just be this project
<lampd1>
ng-something
<lampd1>
ng-somethingelse
* lampd1
has never used angular
<lampd1>
but if you ask me about prototypejs I got that shit
<lampd1>
;)
<pontiki>
i'm several months in, and i'm still not getting the hang of things
<pontiki>
i wrote a fair bit of backbone and knockout, i totally get that shit
<pontiki>
and i really really really want to work in react
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<lampd1>
i'm messing with some phantomjs stuff atm
<lampd1>
8)
<lampd1>
kind of a funky stack for processing images of websites
<lampd1>
pontiki: do you know much about bundler?
<lampd1>
i.e. is there a simple way to run your whole app stack off of locally cached gems
<pontiki>
not much of the internals at all
<pontiki>
i just use it
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<lampd1>
or locally _stored_
<pontiki>
sure
<lampd1>
--standalone ?
<pontiki>
well maybe i should ask what you really mean by that
<pontiki>
you want bundler to install the gems locally rather than in the $GEM_PATH ?
<lampd1>
yeah
<lampd1>
like within the project dir
<pontiki>
--path
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<zotherstupidguy>
?fubar
<ruboto>
I don't know anything about fubar
<pontiki>
typically people use --path=vendor/bundle
<lampd1>
word; thx dude :)
<pontiki>
something i do for production deploys, sometimes
<pontiki>
forex, my middleman resume site is like that
<lampd1>
yeah; i'm just thinking this stack has some kind of crazy dependencies
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<lampd1>
one of its dependencies even uses clive
<lampd1>
and checks a cli dependency
<lampd1>
or two
<lampd1>
lol
<lampd1>
trying to think of the best way to lock it all down
<pontiki>
it's really best to do both --path and --standalone if you want to really isolate an app from the rest of the libraries; avoid collisions
<stalcott>
is it possible to do anonymous recursion in Ruby? to invoke the caller without having named it and passed it in? as demonstrated in Perl and Javascript here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_recursion
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<pontiki>
the --deployment flag does a bunch of those things
<hanmac>
phat4life: "by object" ... means you can do def add(obj); obj << data; end; but you cant def add(obj); obj += data; end; in the first one obj itself is changed, in the second one a new obj is created
<phat4life>
so using def (a = []) is bad in a reursive function then, assuming i am modifying a in every recursive call
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<Ox0dea>
phat4life: Stateful recursion is pretty unpleasant, but it's sometimes what you want.
<noethics>
does ruby have TcO
<noethics>
TCO
<Ox0dea>
Sort of.
<phat4life>
Ox0dea: im used to recursion in C, where you can just pass a pointer
<phat4life>
er, c++
<Ox0dea>
Recursion is the same everywhere.
<noethics>
nah lol
<noethics>
TCO in c++ is really good
<noethics>
recursion is essentially free if done properly
<phat4life>
rigtht, but is every resuricve call creating a new object
<noethics>
yes, plus depending on TCO you might end up with a huge stack
<noethics>
recursion is generally bad in high level languages
<noethics>
but idk how ruby does TCO
<Ox0dea>
It's a compile-time feature, but you can finagle the RubyVM module into using it regardless.
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<Ox0dea>
It has to be applied to individual InstructionSequence containers, though.
<noethics>
yeahhh i would avoid recursion
<phat4life>
that makes me sad
<Ox0dea>
Are you using Ruby to do Big Data?
<noethics>
phat4life, very few languages do good TCO
<noethics>
like, almost none
<Ox0dea>
How deep a stack do you really need?
<noethics>
except C/C++
<phat4life>
no i am just review algorihims, and i don't feel like writing c++ right now
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<Ox0dea>
You typically want to use recursion to walk trees irrespective of the language you're using.
<noethics>
ye but you can still optimize that
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<noethics>
ie. run a loop and recurse the branches
<noethics>
instead of the whole tree
<Ox0dea>
What?
<Ox0dea>
How do you tell the loop when to stop?
<noethics>
depends on the implementation
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<Ox0dea>
Depends on whether or not you understand recursion. ^_^
<noethics>
not really
<noethics>
what lo
<phat4life>
its much easier to do tree traveral just puerly recursively
<phat4life>
from a programming standpoint
<noethics>
easier yeh
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<Ox0dea>
Natural, even.
<noethics>
but if the tree is huge or you have a lot of control flowy stuff in your tree
<noethics>
it's inefficient
<Ox0dea>
Using explicit iteration to walk a tree involves maintaining your own stack, so what's the point?
<phat4life>
how would that make a difference
<phat4life>
every recusive solution can be converted directly to iterative
<Ox0dea>
And vice versa.
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<phat4life>
i don't see how it would be different other that from the difference because iteration/recursive stack
<noethics>
the difference is you renew the stack every iteration
<phat4life>
with renew meaning what exactly?
<noethics>
you can do it with recursion too by unwrapping the stack
<noethics>
but you have to know what youre doing
<noethics>
ie. when you exit the stack just disappears
<noethics>
you dont have to worry about the stack
<Ox0dea>
...
<noethics>
what Ox0dea
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<Ox0dea>
You have to maintain all the state that a recursive approach would.
<noethics>
no you dont
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<Ox0dea>
Not all at once, if that's the point you're meaning to make.
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<noethics>
any state you need is some high level abstracted data
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<noethics>
you dont have all of the state associated with stack frames
<noethics>
and yes, not all at once
<noethics>
because the stack unwraps itself
<noethics>
when you exit
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<Ox0dea>
But that's essentially what the recursion would do anyway.
<noethics>
yeah if you do it properly as i said
<noethics>
but it's completely avoided using iterative approach
<phat4life>
noethics: are you talking about tail recursion?
<noethics>
yes
<phat4life>
ok you could have just said that lol
<noethics>
tail recursion is bad
<noethics>
what do you think i meant by TcO
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<phat4life>
i thought tail recursion was good
<Ox0dea>
noethics: Tail recursion is the good kind.
<Ox0dea>
It's essentially mathematically equivalent to iteration.
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<Ox0dea>
Except with the added bonus of letting the computer decide when to stop rather than supplying some sort of explicit stopping condition.
<noethics>
with TCO yes
<Ox0dea>
That was worded poorly, but I suspect you took my meaning.
<noethics>
i understand
<noethics>
but TCO is ecessary
<noethics>
anyway i gotta go do work D:
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<noethics>
glhf
<Ox0dea>
I'm adding named Unicode literals to Ruby...
<Ox0dea>
Hyphens, BEGIN/END, IO, and TRUE are ruining my night.
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<agent_white>
Evenin' folks
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<ScriptGeek>
hmm
<ScriptGeek>
Random.rand(0..10)
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<Ox0dea>
ScriptGeek: What about it?
<ScriptGeek>
if I wanted to write my own class to do SomeClass.yadda(0..10) what would the syntax look like?
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<shevy>
I seem to have collected a lot of weird ruby code from other people
<shevy>
begin; while not(@done) do
<ScriptGeek>
weird indeed
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<lampd1>
oh yeah, not a coroutine like an ienumerable
<ScriptGeek>
lampd1: are you using Unity with C#?
<lampd1>
yeah
<ScriptGeek>
nice
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<ScriptGeek>
I'm working with Unity on another project
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<lampd1>
coolio :) unity is fun stuff
<ScriptGeek>
yeah, I love it
<ScriptGeek>
it's more fun than ruby :p
<lampd1>
haha; ruby is super fun once a few key pieces click
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<lampd1>
just takes a little getting used to thinking the "ruby way"
<ScriptGeek>
it's alright... I wanted to make a "small" project as part of the Team Treehouse course requirements, but this ruby project is taking much longer than I thought it would
<lampd1>
what's the project goal?
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<ScriptGeek>
It's just a Dope Wars clone, running in the text console
<ScriptGeek>
I got the menu system working correctly today
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<lampd1>
huh; cool - dont rly know what dope wars is - is it like a turn based text rpg?
<ScriptGeek>
sooner or later I'll dive back in and create a better solution
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<ScriptGeek>
yeah, it's sorta like that... here, lemme find a link
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<shevy>
ack
<shevy>
you use method_missing
<Ox0dea>
shevy: Only in a module intended to be extended from, so the damage is localized.
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<Ox0dea>
How often do you get to use a gem to help write its gemspec description?
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<shevy>
don't think I ever needed that
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<shevy>
writing gemspecs is very boring
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<shevy>
it would be nice if rubygems could sort of automatically pick a gemspec up from a key class or something like that
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<jhass>
write a generator
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<shevy>
I hope you could write one for me jhass :)
<jhass>
nah, I'm fine with bundler's
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<Ox0dea>
Named threads just dropped in trunk. What's the utility?
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<Ox0dea>
I mean, isn't it kind of redundant?
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<jhass>
huh? "dropped" as in removed?
<jhass>
and why redundant?
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<jhass>
oh weird, I thought we had them already
<Ox0dea>
Well, they already have to be stored in some kind of variable, and thus they already have "names".
<Ox0dea>
Why not named arrays and hashes too?
<Ox0dea>
On a related note, why Class#name?
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<shevy>
because it gives you the name?
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<jhass>
Ox0dea: I'd expect thread names to be about phtread_setname_np
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<jhass>
so that's incredibly useful
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<apeiros>
for debugging, I suppose?
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<Ox0dea>
At the C level?
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<Ox0dea>
When would you not be able to determine which thread you were dealing with from Ruby land?
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<jhass>
one ruby thread maps one pthread
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<jhass>
apeiros: or simply knowing which of my threads died by looking at htop
<jhass>
or think autoscaling stuff, simply seeing how many of what kind of thread are running
<apeiros>
jhass: right, so: debugging ;-)
<apeiros>
oh, wait… are there tools to measure cpu time per pthread?
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<jhass>
mmh, wouldn't be surprised but I never checked
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<tonytr>
Newbie query: for the following code "array1.length do i" how do i modify it so that the do loop iterates only the array "length-1". when i put "array1.(length-1) do i" i get an error
<shevy>
is that really a loop?
<jhass>
tonytr: (array.size-1).times do |i|
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<tonytr>
hi - is it possible without using the size method?
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<jhass>
size and length are the same
<tonytr>
so (array1.length-1).times do |i| - should work?
<jhass>
yes
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<tonytr>
thanks
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<Ox0dea>
tonytr: I feel compelled to ask: how come you don't need the last element?
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<Ox0dea>
There are any number of good reasons, of course.
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<tonytr>
Ox0dea, just specific to the program I'm writing - the last element isn't relevant. Interesting that "array1.length do |i|" would work but if you you need a different number you have to use ".times"
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<Ox0dea>
tonytr: You'll have to define "work" there.
<Ox0dea>
Every method accepts an implicit block, but Enumerable#length doesn't do anything with it.
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<Ox0dea>
You could use Enumerable#count if you absolutely must avoid calling #times, but I can't imagine why that'd be the case.
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<livcd>
any sass guy around ? i'd like to ask if i can change the selector type with mixins ? eg .selector { @include mixin; } can compile to .selector::before { color: blue; }
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<jhass>
livcd: hey livcd, welcome to the Ruby programming language channel where you can ask all your Ruby questions
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<livcd>
jhass: :3
<jhass>
livcd: in other words /msg alis help
<livcd>
who is alis ?
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<tonytr>
im wondering is "1.upto(array1.length-1) do |i|" the same as (array1.length-1).times do |i|? It seems they should be but I get different results for both
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<jhass>
tonytr: no times is 0-indexed
<jhass>
so it's the same as 0.upto(array.length-2) do |i|
<tonytr>
ah i see...
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<tonytr>
so going back to that original code, how can I change it so that it starts from 0. I don't wish to use the upto method. Using length and times is ok
<tonytr>
starts from 1*
<jhass>
what's wrong with upto?
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<jhass>
I'd argue its the most idiomatic version in fact
<tonytr>
I'm trying to solve a problem in a book. Upto hasn't been covered yet
<ule>
hi there
<jhass>
so what?
<centrx>
times is okay
<jhass>
tonytr: that book won't cover all Ruby has to offer in the standard library anyway
<ule>
Is there any way to check if a website is using ruby?
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<tonytr>
ok jhass
<otherj>
builtwith is decent at detecting rails, but otherwise you may be out of luck
<jhass>
tonytr: that said, you'll also see (1..(array.size-1).each do |i| and (1...array.size).each do |i| often too, but throw away that useless arbitrary restriction you thought of and use upto, everything else is just severely damaging your mindset
<dreinull75>
anybody here responsible for slim2html?
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<otherj>
hot as balls here today :-/
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<tonytr>
I could do that jhass but technically failed at solving the problem. I guess I could use "(array.length-2).times do |i|" and just add 1 to i at the beginning of the loop?
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<jhass>
technically yes
<jhass>
is that a nice way, nope
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<cina>
I have a method that creates a large array does something with it, and then exits and returns 0. After calling that method ram usage goes up about 150MB! I'm doing this on a server, so the ram usage is going up indefinitely! I have to restart the server every hour... I'm running ruby-2.1.5
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<cina>
>> def test; a = (1..10_000_000).to_a; 0; end
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<cina>
compare the ram usage before and after calling that method
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<apeiros>
sounds like you're retaining a reference to the array somewhere
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<apeiros>
else the memory will be reused by ruby (but not given back to the OS - the OS may swap it out, though)
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<cina>
thank you, interesting...
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<apeiros>
cina: feel free to gist your code for inspection
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<cina>
it's a large multi-file worker, I first thought it might have something to do ruby 2.1, I'm not retaining a reference to the array, but it could also be an issue with the gem I am using (Sidekiq), I will check that as well
<cina>
apeiros: I can't share the code sorry about that
<cina>
the code belongs to the company I work for :(
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<cina>
sorry about that
<apeiros>
cina: no need to be sorry. you're the one missing free code inspection ;-)
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<apeiros>
I'd clear that with my company if I were you. most companies don't care about source code which is not in the domain of their core competences.
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<terminal_fee>
Any purpose FREE storagewith PHP5 + MySQL, Script Testing, Personal, and more! at https://www.criosphinx.net/free/
<terminal_fee>
Any purpose FREE storagewith PHP5 + MySQL, Script Testing, Personal, and more! at https://www.criosphinx.net/free/
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<terminal_fee>
Any purpose FREE storagewith PHP5 + MySQL, Script Testing, Personal, and more! at https://www.criosphinx.net/free/
<woodennails>
Just gotten a new job and its likely that im going to be coding using either Ruby w/ sinatra/rails or Javascript using EmberJS so just wanted to say hey :)
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<Ox0dea>
rob_: Do you perceive any shortcomings in that approach?
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<BlueProtoman>
Ox0dea: Do you know anything about Jekyll or Liquid, per chance?
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<jhass>
rob_: well, the perfect time would be to use a monotonic clock via Process.clock_gettime
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<jhass>
*perfect way
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<jhass>
not that it's likely that your benchmark crosses a leap second
<Ox0dea>
jhass: Still, there's the potential for http_request to get a shell on BlueProtoman's box and monkey-patch Process before the request completes.
<Ox0dea>
Haven't figured out how to thaw Symbols yet.
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<shevy>
I guess once frozen
<shevy>
things will remain in the eternal ice
<shevy>
why is there .object_id and .__id__ ?
<seanstickle>
That sounds like a Lovecraftian turn of phrase
<Ox0dea>
shevy: Why is there #send and #__send__?
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<jhass>
why's there #size and #length?
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<Ox0dea>
Because programmer happiness.
<BlueProtoman>
Is there a way I can define implicit conversions on built-in types? (I.e. I want to convert strings to ints in the usual way, except if the conversion is not valid I want to just return nil)
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<jhass>
BlueProtoman: what do you mean? got some examples?
<Ox0dea>
`cat *.c | grep -c define_alias` is only 18 in trunk. Doesn't that seem low?
<BlueProtoman>
jhass: Let me explain my use case, that might clear it up. You know Jekyll?
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<jhass>
not really, only invested into middleman so far
<seanstickle>
I know Jekyll
<seanstickle>
Though, jhass, middleman is more interesting
<BlueProtoman>
jhass: Actually, that doesn't even matter. I just want to use format, except instead of throwing TypeErrors on invalid types (e.g. "f" to a %d) or ArgumentErrors for too few arguments, I just want to return some default values
<jhass>
well, invested, played around and made my very basic site with it
<jhass>
BlueProtoman: write a simple wrapper that does that?
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<BlueProtoman>
jhass: That does what, exactly? (Bear in mind, I know literally no Ruby.)
<jhass>
.scan out the % and map them to argument || default
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<BlueProtoman>
jhass: And what does that do, exactly?
<jhass>
well, you gotta invest at least somewhat into your Ruby skills if you want to do that
<jhass>
else I'd recommend you to change your stuff not to require it
<jhass>
which would be better anyhow
<BlueProtoman>
jhass: All I need is literally a single Liquid tag, if you're familiar with that. I'm primarily doing a site in Jekyll
<seanstickle>
For $20, I’ll sell you that tag
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<jhass>
^ good offer
<BlueProtoman>
seanstickle: I already wrote it! Now I'm just trying to polish it
<Ox0dea>
BlueProtoman: I'd take that deal, mate.
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<BlueProtoman>
Thank you, but no.
<seanstickle>
Fair ‘nuff
* seanstickle
puts Big Book o’ Tags back on the shelf
<Ox0dea>
seanstickle: To be fair, you didn't actually name your price.
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<Ox0dea>
English is weird.
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<BlueProtoman>
Actually, he did
<Ox0dea>
No, he said, essentially, that if you gave him twenty bucks, he'd sell the tag to you, but not how much you'd have to pay for the tag.
<BlueProtoman>
I suppose taken literally, yes, but...arrrrgh
<seanstickle>
Fortunately, my customers typically speak idiomatic English
<seanstickle>
Not English as interpreted by a Lojban speaker
<seanstickle>
;)
<Ox0dea>
"For x, I'll y" isn't all that idiomatic, really.
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<Ox0dea>
"I'll x for y" is substantially more common.
<seanstickle>
A Google search turns up a lot of matches for my format as well
<seanstickle>
From a corpus search basis, I’d say mine works fine
<Ox0dea>
I didn't say it didn't.
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<seanstickle>
Common use is pretty much the working definition of idiom
<Ox0dea>
But commoner is more idiomaticer.
<seanstickle>
Ha :D
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<Ox0dea>
^_^
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<nickjj>
i have a fun OT saturday question for you guys
<nickjj>
my friend has a mac (yosemite 10.10.4) and he swears that title html attributes do not show up for him on any browser
<seanstickle>
nickjj: I have answers about operator calculus
<nickjj>
i do not have a mac to test it myself, am i getting trolled?
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<nickjj>
a popular site that uses title= is xkcd.com (hover over any comic image) , can someone with that mac ver test it?
<jhass>
I think there's an os x channel
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<jhass>
#MacOSX
<seanstickle>
nickjj: I assure you, the title attr works on Macs finfe
<nickjj>
k, i'll try there. thanks
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<nickjj>
seanstickle, he tried multiple browsers which is what boggles my mind
<seanstickle>
I used to do tech support professionall
<seanstickle>
What people say they do is not necessarily what they actually did
<seanstickle>
Nor are their interpretations regularly accurate
<seanstickle>
Many is the time I walk into a room and the problem magically disappeared
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<seanstickle>
Because they become conscious of what they’re doing, and stop doing it wrong by accident
<nickjj>
hah yeah
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<Ox0dea>
What'd be a good channel for discussing Unicode's copyright agreement?
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<jhass>
there's 11 people in #unicode
<Ox0dea>
That doesn't bode well.
<jhass>
4 in #cldr
<jhass>
and that seems to be about it
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<Ox0dea>
#ruby it is!
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<bhaak>
what problems do you have with the unicode's terms of use?
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<Ox0dea>
I wonder whether or not they apply in the case of grabbing and parsing their name list.
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<Ox0dea>
The document never exists in full on disk, and even after parsing it's been transformed and exists only in RAM.
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<Ox0dea>
"(a) this copyright and permission notice appear with all copies of the Data Files or Software"
<Ox0dea>
In my case, what copy?
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<jhass>
do you think anybody will enforce anything about that anywhere?
<bhaak>
if you put the names list in your code repository, you should somewhere point out that its under the unicode license agreement
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<bhaak>
if it's just a webservice, it should suffice to say somewhere "this software is (among other stuff) using unicode data files blabla link to http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html"
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<Ox0dea>
bhaak: The list will not exist in the repository proper, but the data will essentially be present on a user's machine, just not in a form the license appears to cover.
<jhass>
diegoviola: 17.06.2012 ... also #ruby-offtopic ;)
<Ox0dea>
Is it possible to determine that we're being required?
<diegoviola>
jhass: ok
<Ox0dea>
$LOADED_FEATURES doesn't pick us up until the whole file has been evaluated.
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<jhass>
well, being required opposed to... ?
<Ox0dea>
Huh?
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<jhass>
what do you want to differentiate against? ruby foo.rb ?
<Ox0dea>
This is gonna sound nuts, but...
<Ox0dea>
Ideally, I'd like to remove foo.rb from $LOADED_FEATURES from within foo.rb...
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<Ox0dea>
That doesn't seem to be possible, so what are the alternatives?
<jhass>
do I want to know?
<Ox0dea>
I'd imagine not.
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<Ox0dea>
vm->loading_table used to be a global. :/
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<jhass>
are you writing "Ruby under a electron-scan microscope" or something?
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<Levvy>
Hello. Is anyone active?
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<Levvy>
I wann execute this line of Ruby in Java but also got this error: org.jruby.embed.ParseFailedException: (SyntaxError) <script>:1: syntax error, unexpected tUMINUS rvpacker -V -f -d P:\temp-workspace\RPGTestProject1 -t ace -a unpack
<jhass>
do you embed C when you want to run, say, the ls command?
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<Levvy>
when I run this command in cmd it works fine
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<jhass>
yes
<jhass>
because your cmd is not a ruby interpreter
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<Levvy>
so I cannot exec this code from ruby?
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<jhass>
sure you can, but why not just invoke the command from java directly?
<jhass>
if you're going to shellout anyhow?
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<Levvy>
cause I got Cannot run program "rvpacker": CreateProcess error=2, The system cannot find the file specified
<jhass>
well, then fix the path
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<Levvy>
in cmd it works well so path is ok
<jhass>
not it java apparently
<jhass>
but this ain't #java nor #windows, so there's that
<jhass>
all I can assure you that going through jruby is a quite insane idea
<Levvy>
ok so I will go there and thanks for help
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<hololeap>
i've got another question about coding best practices. what do you guys think about "if some_var" vs "unless some_var.nil?". i've seen the latter and wondered why bother, but it does seem more readable in a way
<pontiki>
readability is what it's all about
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<pontiki>
there are some general feeling that if you have an 'else' clause, you should use the 'if' form (no elses with unlesses)
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<pontiki>
more specifically to your exact question, unless some_var.nil? is running two comparisons
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<hololeap>
would there ever be a time when you would need to differentiate between nil and false on a returned value?
<pontiki>
and for me, if some_var is way more readable in that situation
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<pontiki>
i've seen people do that, that somehow a tri-state boolean is being used
<pontiki>
there probably is a use case for tri-state logic
<hololeap>
good grief. i feel like people return nil too much as it is
<pontiki>
i don't disagree
<pontiki>
there are times when using a null object would be a much better choice
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<hololeap>
is there a reason why so many methods in ruby avoid raising an exception and return nil instead?
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<pontiki>
idk
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<pontiki>
there is an oft-spoken phrase "don't use exceptions for flow control". i can't disagree with that either
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<pontiki>
using exceptions that way is essentially doing a GOTO
<bhaak>
i hate unless with a passion. it's so often runs into double negatives.
<hololeap>
hmm... ruby is so flexible sometimes i have a hard time wrapping my head around which way is "better"
<pontiki>
"better" isn't an absolute
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<Ox0dea>
hololeap: "A puppet is free so long as he loves his strings."
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<pontiki>
and it's a matter also of practicing and getting feedback
<bhaak>
and you can't ever be sure the programmer was sane enough to choose if or unless according to how likely it returns true
<Ox0dea>
bhaak: Is that "sanity" or premature optimization?
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<pontiki>
over the years, i've seen 2 schools of thought. one is get all the error conditions out of the way up at the top. the other is do the main thing the method is responsible for at the top
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<pontiki>
i don't know that i have a specific preference in that regard. i want to be able to write a method so it's apparent what's going on
<Ox0dea>
I prefer the former, but I probably couldn't articulate exactly why.
<bhaak>
Ox0dea: it can't be premature optimization as the condition to the if/unless has to be evaluated anyway :)
<hololeap>
are there any good gems for basic type checking (like if there is only one parameter and it should only accept one type of object)
<Ox0dea>
pontiki: I like that it frees mental space for focusing on the happy path rather than dreading how things might be about to go wrong.
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<Ox0dea>
You really should step back and reconsider if you find yourself defining a method like "def bar a, b = String, c = [Numeric], d = :to_h | Hash | :keys, e", but it's nice to know you could.
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<Ox0dea>
All that said, you really ought to embrace duck typing.
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<hololeap>
yeah, i probably tend to do more type checking than is necessary
<hololeap>
isn't there going to be some kind of loose type checking for methods in the next ruby version?
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<Ox0dea>
It's all going to be JavaScript by then.
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<hololeap>
what do you mean?
<bhaak>
if that were true, I guess 80% of all programmers shoot themselves
<Ox0dea>
hololeap: Native is dying.
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<Ox0dea>
Glacially, to be sure, but it's happening.
<pontiki>
Ox0dea: you mean native as in mobile apps?
<hololeap>
i'm still confused. what is "native"?
<Ox0dea>
pontiki: I'm using "native" to mean "non-Web" here.
<pontiki>
oh, sure
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<Ox0dea>
JavaScript is permanently rooted as the language for the browser, and it's just going to keep getting faster.
<pontiki>
indeed
<pontiki>
they're into deep voodoo mad science now
<bhaak>
until it hurts so much that it will be changed
<hololeap>
i doubt i will ever ditch having a desktop or a hard drive
<pontiki>
it's only going to get better, or worse, depending on your pov on such things
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<Ox0dea>
hololeap: You would have asked for faster horses.
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<pontiki>
the browser is becoming the desktop, is becoming the OS
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<Ox0dea>
That's about the size of it, yep.
<shevy>
javascript will kill everything
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<pontiki>
wouldn't you say it's on the same trajectory as the guy who said "the network is the operating system"
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<pontiki>
sorry, brain farting on him
<Ox0dea>
Engelbart, maybe?
<pontiki>
and his company that got bought out by oracle
<pontiki>
well, he probably said it too
<pontiki>
sun
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<pontiki>
mcnealy
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<hololeap>
so are web servers going to be run on javascript too?
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<pontiki>
probably not entirely, but it will be more and more
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<pontiki>
even so, a lot of that is dependent on developers
<pontiki>
java is still like 40% of web software
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<Ox0dea>
adaedra: I'm nearly done with my gem that lets you write "#{SNOWMAN} #{BLACK SNOWMAN} #{SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW}".
<jhass>
just because nobody pointed it out, one thing to keep in mind is that if foo and unless foo.nil? are only equivalent if false is not valid value
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<pontiki>
OMG I NEED THAT!!!
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<Ox0dea>
adaedra: It's the good kind of blame.
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<adaedra>
oh ok
<Ox0dea>
I managed to work around IO and TRUE, but these damned hyphens are mucking things up.
<pontiki>
the kind that means "i'm giving credit for my work to.."
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<pontiki>
definitely starring that
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<Ox0dea>
Most of the time the hyphens create syntax errors, but there's a hack to handle them if they occur in the last word.
<Ox0dea>
For the sake of consistency, I decided to replace all the hyphens with underscores.
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<Ox0dea>
But now the hyphen-prefixed final words become locals instead of negated constants. :(
<pontiki>
that's the usual inflection, isn't it?
<Ox0dea>
pontiki: Well, Python, Perl, and even LOLCODE all support named unicode literals as the spec defines them. :/
<Ox0dea>
On the plus (?) side, ours don't actually have to be interpolated.
<Ox0dea>
`bad = PILE OF POO` will work just fine.
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<Ox0dea>
Has anybody ever needed unary minus on Symbol?
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<pontiki>
not deliberately that i recall
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<adaedra>
Wait
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<adaedra>
Why do I have 93 gem downloads for a gem just providing UNICODE_SNOWMAN
<Ox0dea>
Why wouldn't you?
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<jhass>
bots
<shevy>
:)
<adaedra>
It's late, let's stop trying to understand the internet
<shevy>
95% of the downloads are scripted!
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<shevy>
I have had two people write emails to me about my gems; one complained that my gems lack documentation (he was right), the other reported a bug
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<shevy>
so there are real people out there too
<Ox0dea>
> real people
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<adaedra>
I'll have to add this gem to my résumé then
<Ox0dea>
Erm... should I release this as version 8.0.0 in accordance with the current Unicode standard?
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<Ox0dea>
Rather, the upcoming standard, but that's the one whose characters I've included.
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<shevy>
adaedra perhaps someone wants to make a gem out of it...
<hololeap>
bots can complain too
<shevy>
"The Revenge of the Snowman" [splatter]
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<shevy>
I meant
<bhaak>
don't bind the version of your code to an external body
<shevy>
*game
<bhaak>
if you need to update it while the unicode standard hasn't been update, you would desync anyway
<Ox0dea>
bhaak: Fair point.
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<shevy>
adaedra you can try to trick the bots and reach a million downloads
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<adaedra>
What would I do with a million downloads
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<shevy>
get rich
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<jhass>
reminds me, I should update the gems wordlist for the hangman bot
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<adaedra>
shevy: give me a million euros then
<jhass>
I just counted, I get ~65k then
<shevy>
adaedra I didn't download anything!
<adaedra>
jhass: you don't use /etc/words?
<jhass>
no
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<adaedra>
shevy: you don't have to
<Ox0dea>
My `wc -l /usr/share/dict/words` is 662952...
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<adaedra>
mmh, I don't find a dictionnary on this machine
<jhass>
98105 gem_names
<jhass>
5947 ruby
<jhass>
1524 wordlist
<shevy>
huh
<shevy>
we have only 100.000 different gems?
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<Ox0dea>
Seems reasonable enough?
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<shevy>
if there are 1 million ruby users worldwide
<shevy>
only every 10 will have one gem
<adaedra>
102,914 according to rubygems.org
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<jhass>
yeah I should update it, now remember how I got it...
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<Ox0dea>
`gem search | wc -l` is 101628 for me.
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<jhass>
latest_specs.4.8.gz has 102666
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<Ox0dea>
My kingdom for anybody who can work out the significance of the name.
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<meph>
Ox0dea: lovely repo
<Ox0dea>
meph: Feel better?
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<meph>
love that literal way
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<starfox_sf>
I am trying to connecto to a SMTP server using the net/smtp library but I am getting a Net::OpenTimeout every time... here is what I'm doing -> https://gist.github.com/5c3d062eb4fb28ca22e8