<adam12>
It's crazy that Ruby 2.3 still makes up 40% of traffic to Rubygems.
<adam12>
I wonder how much of that is CI traffic.
<uplime>
pretty sure some of the servers at work use 2.3
<adam12>
I definitely ran it up until a few months ago. Just surprised at the percentage of it. Figured it would of dwindled off some.
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<EdwardIII>
hey, i've been using ruby for a couple of years, so i'd say i'm "intermediate". interested in picking up a book that can maybe up my game a bit? Ruby Best Practices looks pretty good but in the free sample it says it's based on ruby 1.9 which is olllld. is it still good? is something else more appropriate?
<neozor>
Practical Object oriented design by sandy metz helped me a lot, it is aimed for beginners but you can still learn a lot from it, i think even more if you have been working with the language for some time
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<EdwardIII>
neozor: thanks for the suggestion! i've read object thinking and sandi metz' bottles of oop book, so i feel fairly comfortable in that space, but will defo check out the preview
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<neozor>
No problem! I find it very helpful in terms of understanding the design choices made around some of the most popular gems and by consequence, getting a better grip on the ruby way
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<leitz>
EdwardIII, how are you at programming overall? Different books will be useful to you based on your skills.
<leitz>
EdwardIII, for example, "Effective Testing with RSPec3" not only explains RSPec, but uses a website (Sinatra) and Sequel (a DB connection gem). It helped me learn things that I didn't "get" in isolation.
<EdwardIII>
leitz: well, i make production apps which are flexible to change and feel much less buggy than they used to be, i also provide guidance for other team members in this area, and across a range of languages. but you don't know what you don't know, right? :)
<leitz>
EdwardIII, then you're more skilled than I am! I'd suggest the RSpec book if you want to do application testing, and either "Metaprogramming Ruby" if you want to go esoteric, or "Ruby under a microscope" if you want to go deep.
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<leitz>
I'm actually working on updates to the book list as we type. :)
<leitz>
EdwardIII, hmmm "Mastering Ruby Closures" if you don't get those yet, or "Ruby Performance Optimization" if you need that sort of thing.
<EdwardIII>
heh a whole book on closures? that is actually something i'm interested to see
<leitz>
It's not a big book, but your background says you'd "get" it.
<leitz>
The goal is to expand the Ruby-community.com page.
<EdwardIII>
cool stuff
<leitz>
I have a lot of the books, mostly because I like books. Feel free to ping me with questions.
<EdwardIII>
somewhat OT but have you read TAOCP? as you seem to be a bit of a reader
<leitz>
I've read TPOP and The Pragmatic Programmer. Both are due for a re-read. Not sure I know what TAOCP is.
<EdwardIII>
leitz: The Art of Computer Programming
<leitz>
Ah, Knuth. I'm not strong in Maths; very much a pragmatic sort. Came from being a Linux sysadmin and am mostly self-taught.
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<EdwardIII>
very much the same
<neozor>
That's very helpful!
<leitz>
My next big "deep dive" is "Understanding Computation". I'll probably have to do side-trips to math books to get it, but I'm trying to build my skills.
<leitz>
What I'm more excited about is using RSpect as I learn website back end stuff. I've done DB connectivity and basic web stuff, but am using the plan for a game to push me to learn more.
<leitz>
RSpect/RSpec
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<neozor>
That's what I'm doing, i need to have some kind project for me to understand the concepts
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<leitz>
neozor, where are you in your sruby kills/career?
<neozor>
Buti struggle between having a time to learn and the job itself
<leitz>
sruby/Ruby, I was trying to kiss my wife and type at the same time...
<leitz>
neozor, I really understand that struggle! My "two years to learn" took two decades.
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<neozor>
I have an intermediate level of ruby, i started with rails that took a lot of responsibility under the hood
<neozor>
but i'm starting to modularize everything a little bit better around ebery service
<neozor>
every*
<leitz>
neozor, are you doing Test Driven Development? (TDD)
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<neozor>
Yes, but there were a lot of features that did not follow that pattern before
<leitz>
TDD really helped me clarify my thinking. Have you done the Ruby Koans? It sounds like you're there or a little past that stage.
<leitz>
You work on basic Ruby by way of unit testing.
<leitz>
It sounds like you have the basics, going through the Koans might affirm that you know more than you think you do, and highlight any areas you need to practice more.
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<EdwardIII>
leitz: which game engine are you going to use? i did a tiny bit with dragonruby (my bro is more heavily involved in it)
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<leitz>
EdwardIII, I'm on the other end of the spectrum, just doing a web based merchant game. If you've ever done role-playing games, like Traveller, it replaces the tabletop game.
<leitz>
EdwardIII, I haven't gotten far, mostly because I keep trying to do boring things like update my resume and go to work. :)
<EdwardIII>
ah ok cool :)
<EdwardIII>
what work do you do? ruby-based?
<leitz>
I wish. Perl.
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<EdwardIII>
heh cool. i used to be a bit in the perl community many years ago, some really really smart people there
<leitz>
I use Ruby to learn the other topics I don't know well. Perl is a great language, but Ruby fits my brain a lot better, and I get more done with it.
<EdwardIII>
do you use Moose?
<leitz>
Mo.
<leitz>
Trying to switch to Moo, but I need more tests.
<EdwardIII>
cool. there was often a lot of talk of Moose/CLOS/ruby etc back in the day. comparisons between that and other object systems. was super interesting
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<leitz>
I've chatted with the Moo author, and he's both helpful and super-smart. For me it boils down to being able to think in the language so that I can get stuff done. Otherwise I'm thinking *about* the language and not getting as much done.
<EdwardIII>
yes, i find ruby is good for that
<EdwardIII>
it feels organic to me
<leitz>
EdwardIII, since I don't have a comp-sci background I'm trying to learn the things I missed. My focus is on building working stuff more than high performance or large scale. The more I do means the more I learn, and then can do more.
<EdwardIII>
sounds like a good plan
<EdwardIII>
focusing on high perf or trying to build an infra structure to support 1mil visitors per hour is the downfall of many projects :)
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<neozor>
leitz, thanks for your input
<neozor>
How do i mention in IRC?
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<nakilon>
Just write nickname, and there is tab autocompletion
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<leitz>
neozor, happy to help. Lots of people here have helped me.
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<neozor>
nakilon: thanks
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<leitz>
I have to bail, see you all later.
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<sarmiena_>
I'm trying to (in process) try to figure out how much memory a ruby process is taking. Currently using GC.stat[:heap_length], but assuming this isn't going to give me everything, is it?
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<leitz>
Y'all, we have a serious issue. Several of the PragProg Ruby books are old, and not even on their site.
<adam12>
sarmiena_: There's a gem that can look at the process using `ps`. Let me see if I can find it.
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<sarmiena_>
not quite what i'm trying to do, actually adam12. I am wanting to see the growth of the process during its lifecycle
<sarmiena_>
so if i can see what the size is, I can get the delta on the next stat gathering event
<adam12>
sarmiena_: Ah. OK. I think there's maybe a way to go through ObjectSpace but the method is eluding me right now. Let me think on it.
<sarmiena_>
cool
<sarmiena_>
ty
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<aldcor>
hi! trying to install colorls via ruby/gem and got this error https://0x0.st/iU7l.txt
<adam12>
aldcor: You're likely missing the development bits for your ruby package. What distro?
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<adam12>
sarmiena_: Can you go through ObjectSize.memsize_of_all?
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<sarmiena_>
adam12 probably... but looks like my version of ruby doesn't support it or something. we are trying to upgrade... and this is part of the process. ack
<sarmiena_>
currently on 2.1.1
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<adam12>
sarmiena_: I think it exists, but you might need to require `objspace`
<adam12>
sarmiena_: Also, my condolences on the old version of Ruby :)
<sarmiena_>
yeah so i did... but then i copied your suggestion above, which was ObjectSize (not ObjectSpace)
<sarmiena_>
then i restarted, but didn't require again
<adam12>
Ohh. So it was my fault actually.
<adam12>
I wonder how I mucked that up. Thinking one thing and fingers doing their own thing.
<sarmiena_>
the require was the fix though. so thanks for that!
<aldcor>
adam12: voidlinux
<aldcor>
i will check what's on repos
<aldcor>
oh, many many things
<adam12>
aldcor: Maybe ruby-devel will be what you need?
<adam12>
leitz: I wonder if they gave up after trying to keep Pickaxe book current. Or they couldn't get as much money out of the Ruby crowd as they can the newly minted Elixir crowd.
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<aldcor>
oh, i solved it other way
<aldcor>
but thanks adam12
<adam12>
aldcor: yw
<leitz>
adam12, I had a nice e-mail chat with Dave Thomas about the Pickaxe. Neither of us was sure the market is there, but I'm hoping.
<leitz>
ruby_community.com maintainers, did a pull request for updates on the book section. I don't know how to test the page, besides checking the URLs.
<leitz>
I broke them into sections, something like what baweaver did.
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<leitz>
On that note, it's time for a nap.
<adam12>
leitz: IMHO, the Pickaxe served it's purpose but likely wouldn't make sense any more. I'd rather see more advanced books, like the metaprogramming one, or Ruby Under a Microscope (neither in print anymore).
<adam12>
leitz: I think some of the books on Leanpub should be investigated. Some of Radar's stuff maybe (like Exploding Rails), if it's not already.
<leitz>
adam12, I disagree. Learning to program at a basic level is rapidly becoming a first world job requirement. I love the Pickaxe, I can learn the basics and then read the deep stuff too.
<adam12>
leitz: Did you find it useful? It just seemed like a huge, out of date reference to me. I haven't looked at it since like 2006 tho.
<leitz>
The O'Reilly book assumes you know how to program already, and most of the others, except for Head First, take a long time to get anywhere.
<leitz>
adam12, I found it very useful. Granted, I'm a bit slow sometimes, so there is that. But if I win the lottery then we're getting a new Pickaxe.
<adam12>
leitz: Woo!
<adam12>
leitz: Maybe Ruby 3 will warrant a new book for Ruby 3'isms.
<leitz>
That was my point to Dave. But with PragProg dropping titles, I'm not sure how much traction Ruby has with them anymore.
<leitz>
Okay, nappy time...
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<rapha>
oh, there's going to be a new pickaxe i hear? :D
<adam12>
O_o
<rapha>
i did hear you adam12
<rapha>
but it's sad that it's never coming out of the shelf anymore
<adam12>
I got my Poignant guide a few weeks ago from Alt:Brighton. Who needs anything else :P
<sarmiena_>
just had one of my guys learn from pickaxe. I always say it gets you 80-85% of the way there
<sarmiena_>
the rest is experience
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<EdwardIII>
leitz: that closures book was good
<leitz>
EdwardIII, awesome! Glad you liked it.
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<EdwardIII>
although i already knew what a closure was, it got me a bit more comfortable with the idea of making my own dsl (which i would probably not have boethered with usually)
<EdwardIII>
hope i didn't interrupt your nap :)
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<leitz>
EdwardIII, I needed to get up anyway. :)
<EdwardIII>
his teaching method of "make your own not-very-good-version-of-the-thing" technique felt really good
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<leitz>
I'm not quite sure how a book goes out of print these days. Many of the ones I order are printing the day I order them and get here within a couple days.
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<leitz>
PragProg reports no plans to redo Text Processing with Ruby.
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<apotheon>
It must not have been selling well enough to bother.