01:05 <ocdtrekkie> Apparently I am a useful example, even when not present.

01:37 <dwrensha> am I the only one for whom the term "self-hosted" calls to mind Lisp compilers, as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hosting ?

01:38 <dwrensha> I wish we had a better term, like "home-hosted" or something

01:41 <dwrensha> "run-your-own"

01:49 <dwrensha> "software-as-a-package-that-you-can-run-on-your-own-hardware"

01:54 <dwrensha> I suppose "open source" implies all of this

01:55 <dwrensha> "Sandstorm: an open source web productivity suite"

02:10 <asheesh> "Run-your-own" is pretty good.

02:10 <asheesh> I think self-hosted is even better, personally.

02:11 <asheesh> I agree that "self-hosted" has the compilers meaning. I don't think it's confused anyone.

02:11 <asheesh> i,i also Sandstorm self-containerizes and requires stuff in github.com/sandstorm-io to build, surely that means it's self-hosting

02:12 <dwrensha> self-hostable vaguely implies to me that you can run Sandstorm from within Sandstorm

02:12 <asheesh> Which you used to be able to do until we nix'd userns from inside Sandstorm

02:12 <asheesh> i,i Maybe we can have a powerbox way to request userns inside the grain

02:13 <dwrensha> when did we ever allow grains to use user namespaces?

02:13 <asheesh> Andy Lutomirski made it work, but maybe it was just in a branch of his and it wasn't allowed within Sandstorm without a patch.

02:13 <asheesh> (iirc this happened at a hackathon 2y ago where I first visited the "office")

02:15 <dwrensha> "you-hosted"

02:15 <dwrensha> (grabbing the more relevant portion of "you can host it yourself")

05:05 <maurer> dwrensha: self-hosted definitely means something in terms of languages/compilers (though usually the term is "self-hosting", meaning it can compile itself)

05:05 <maurer> dwrensha: However, I don't think anyone is likely to mistake a self-hosted sandstorm server for "I can make a sandstorm grain inside sandstorm" in the advertisement context

05:12 <JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Self-hosted is a term that's been around for a few years now, there's no rewriting history now! You're not the fsf ;)

05:12 <JonTheNiceGuy[m]> coughgnu/Linuxcough ;)

05:17 <digitalcircuit> Though hosting Sandstorm inside itself would be amusing...

05:57 <ocdtrekkie> Two weeks of the GitHub feed is missing after they were down.

05:57 <ocdtrekkie> Doesn't look like any actual data was lost though. Issue I filed two hours ago is there.

06:43 <asheesh> OK, I managed to do frontend web dev almost all day!

06:45 <maurer> asheesh: sfyl

06:45 <asheesh> Hah! I had to look that up, but : )

06:46 <asheesh> My loss is y'all's gain; see also https://github.com/sandstorm-io/sandstorm-app-market/issues/59

06:58 <ocdtrekkie> I am excited to see the app market getting some love.

17:27 <mrdomino> i feel like i've asked this before but i don't have a sense of it yet so i'll ask again: what's your sense of the best frameworks or languages for sandstorm dev? e.g. rails is terrible due to trying to open missing files often. meteor seems like it has kind of a slow boot time. i'm half tempted to try and use something like https://github.com/ipkn/crow or just speak raw capnproto.

17:32 <asheesh> Wait, wow, this is epic.

17:32 <asheesh> PHP is my personal recommendation given the easy setup and easy dev process and no huge surprises when running on Sandstorm compared to elsewhere.

17:32 <asheesh> Which is sort of a tragic recommendation given I don't love PHP itself. (-:

17:33 <asheesh> Python is reasonably okay too; somewhat few surprises, but I haven't done much with Python on Sandstorm, just a very basic hello-world app, but doing that was pretty OK.

17:33 <asheesh> I don't do much Rails so I can't really speak to it.

17:34 <asheesh> If you use https://github.com/ipkn/crow which does look quite cool, then I recommend using sandstorm-http-bridge rather than 100% raw capnproto since isd was recently complaning that WebSession is a complicated interface to support.

17:36 <asheesh> Briefly AFK, back in 30 min or so.

17:40 <dwrensha> mrdomino: I think the best option is to use Rust and program directly against the capnproto interface, as in https://github.com/dwrensha/sandstorm-collections-app

17:40 <dwrensha> but of course I would think that

17:42 <asheesh> Oh, yes, that's another great way.

20:33 <mrdomino> dwrensha: i see "/../../include/capnp/rpc.capnp: no such file" when i try to build that

20:55 <dwrensha> hm...

20:56 <dwrensha> is capnproto installed on your system?

21:16 <dwrensha> mrdomino: what does `which capnp` return on your system?

21:16 <dwrensha> I'm guessing the failure is happening in this build script: https://github.com/dwrensha/capnp-rpc-rust/blob/master/build.rs

21:16 <dwrensha> ... which I should probably make more robust

21:17 <dwrensha> maybe I should just include rpc.capnp directly in capnp-rpc-rust, so that I don't have to poke around on the system to try to find it

21:17 <mrdomino> $ which capnp

21:17 <mrdomino> /usr/local/bin/capnp

21:17 <mrdomino> $ capnp --version

21:17 <mrdomino> Cap'n Proto version 0.5.3

21:19 <dwrensha> what version of rustc?

21:47 <mrdomino> 1.10.0

22:48 <ocdtrekkie> I'm never buying a joke domain name again.

22:49 <ocdtrekkie> I've bought a few dozen domains before, but never has it led to getting an unending flow of telemarketers. I've never felt like domain privacy was a worthwhile service before this week.