<rqou>
cr1901_modern: why don't we have full netlist recovery for snes/gb yet? those look quite achievable
<rqou>
do you know of anybody working on it?
<awygle>
that was a really interesting twitter thread. i was sad to see byuu say that 50ms is not a lot of input latency though :(
<cr1901_modern>
rqou: B/c it's a lot of work, that nobody wants to do. It's only interesting to a small group of people interested in obsolete hardware, so ROI is low.
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<rqou>
furrtek just did one recently
<cr1901_modern>
rqou: The only ppl I'm aware of who does _full_ decap, and not just reading out ROM contents, are MAME for some boards (Namco boards have a shitload of custom LSI) and furrtek and his MVS FPGA project
<rqou>
on that note, i actually have a rom that needs extracting, but i really don't know enough about the chip
<rqou>
might be implant programmed
<whitequark>
full decap as in with delayer?
<whitequark>
Bike: "Bicyclidine" ?
<Bike>
angel dust for hipsters
<cr1901_modern>
whitequark: Full decap as in "do more than the minimum amount of work required to gleam input/output behavior".
<rqou>
i'm not aware of anybody except visual6502 who has done full netlist recovery though
<rqou>
oh and furrtek i guess
<rqou>
we really need better automated netlist recovery tools though
<rqou>
because tracing by hand doesn't scale
<cr1901_modern>
For most old chips, it's worth it to just "throw as many inputs into the pins and see how the chip responds using carefully constructed software tests or a logic analyzer".
<cr1901_modern>
This doesn't work well for CPUs with internal ROMs. Or copy-protected ROMs. And occassionally someone decides to decap an LSI chip anyway b/c they perceive it to be less trouble.
<whitequark>
rqou: mechanical turk?
<rqou>
lol
<rqou>
maybe
<cr1901_modern>
(cf: The 10+ projects looking to vectorize the YM2612)
<rqou>
i personally need a better imaging setup before i can do any of this
<rqou>
i have a fun gate array i want vectorized too just for completeness sake (it's probably simple enough to blackbox)
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<cr1901_modern>
rqou: This is what I use for netlist recovery. HUGE YMMV. It's undocumented, written specifically for the developer alone.
<awygle>
I did 4.5 to 6 hours at night and 1.5 hours in the afternoon, it was great. Got an extra two hours a day most days and an easy adjustment if I was extra tired.
<rqou>
the only problem right now is that my monday is 100% solid from 9:30 to 3:30
<Zorix>
pie__, MBIA943GP i think
<awygle>
4-530, 2-8?
<rqou>
yeah, i might start trying that
* awygle
is not a doctor, the above does not constitute medical advice, ymmv, warranty void where prohibited by law
<rqou>
another thing i've found is that even though i naturally make everything a giant mess, there's also a critical range of desk messiness where otherwise productivity tanks
<rqou>
all of these act like saddle equilibrium points :P (yeah, i'm taking nonlinear systems, how can you tell? : P)
<pie__>
Zorix, hm i got soemthing like that too, no google result :/
<pie__>
this is a keyboard by the way
<rqou>
probably a china-special 8051?
<pie__>
rqou, hah! i had the exam a few days ago
<rqou>
for nonlinear systems?
<rqou>
wow
<rqou>
i thought that was a UCB specialty
<pie__>
well, mileage may vary i thik
<pie__>
i need to go through the material again
<rqou>
the UCB version is hard af
<Zorix>
pie__, i encounter chips all the time with no results.. shenzhen specials
<pie__>
trying to find bounds on the hackability of the keyboard
<pie__>
hmh...
<Zorix>
might be able to work out what it is by how its in the circuit
<Zorix>
might be an encoder or something
<awygle>
rqou: I need my house to be clean and my desk to be messy to be productive
<pie__>
Zorix, yeah i figur ethe cpu will be the big one
<awygle>
(broken foot makes clean house _very difficult_)
<Zorix>
the larger chip at the top is probably a mcu
<Zorix>
that chip you are looking for is probably detecting the keypress matrix signals
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<eduardo__>
At 34c3 I spoke to a guy who did decap for profit. Worked several years for a pay.TV.company. they had their own SEM. He said, these days all the chips are sent to china and you get back your netlist within 4 weeks. This does cost you about 50k USD. So these days no professional attacker does decaping themself anymore.
<azonenberg>
awygle: i thought it's "warranty void if removed" :p
<awygle>
WARRANTY VOID IF SEAL IS BROKEN
<awygle>
(ALL CAPS makes it legal, don't'cha know)
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
Hmm, how to add another ~150 calories...
* azonenberg
was out doing SAR training all weekend and is restocking gear
<azonenberg>
My "day 2" food pack is a little light
<azonenberg>
Only 2996 cals
<azonenberg>
I target a minimum of 3000 and usually 3100-3200
<awygle>
sqeeze pack of peanut butter
<azonenberg>
I have one of those already
* awygle
is currently eating peanut butter
<azonenberg>
Current list is two caffeinated mints, bacon-cheddar sandwich, filled french toast sandwich, cashews, hot chocolate flavor clif bar, cheezits, maple muffin top, marble pound cake
<azonenberg>
pilot bread cracker, chocolate peanut butter, chicken pesto pasta, two parmesan cheese packets
* awygle
could use some cheezits
<azonenberg>
tropical punch drink mix, lemon lime drink mix, two chemical heaters, one plastic spoon
<awygle>
redesignate plastic spoon as food. calorie needs solved.
<azonenberg>
128g fat, 376g carbs (131 sugar), 85g protein, 125% RDA vitamin C, 3475 mg sodium, 1.05 kg total weight including packaging
<awygle>
that seems like a lot of sodium
<azonenberg>
oh and a gallon ziploc for trash but thats not listed in the inventory spreadsheet
<azonenberg>
Do you know what happens when you're wearing a 16-pound equipment vest and a 41-pound backpack while hiking ~20 miles?
<azonenberg>
You sweat :p
<azonenberg>
And that's not just water you're losing
<azonenberg>
If you don't have enough electrolytes to replenish that you go hyponatremic
<azonenberg>
i've seen it happen and it's not pretty
<azonenberg>
my "day 1" food pack is 4530 mg
<awygle>
i have no idea how much salt is reasonable even in sedentary conditions frankly
<azonenberg>
The USDA or whoever recommendation, for a 2000-calorie diet, is <2400
<azonenberg>
mg
<azonenberg>
2000 cal isn't remotely enough for this level of activity
<awygle>
2000 cal isn't remotely enough for me to sit on a couch
<azonenberg>
My average consumption is around 2500-2700 cal a day during training activities, I ate 4891 during the last training weekend according to my spreadsheet and that's actually a little lower than the actual number
<azonenberg>
because we got called away for an evidence search during training and the sheriffs deputy bought us pizza as a thank-you
<awygle>
mmm pizza
<azonenberg>
so i probably was more like 5100 from friday night to sunday early afternoon
<awygle>
this is a very distracting conversation
<azonenberg>
lol
<awygle>
i should have bought snacks
<azonenberg>
I target an absolute minimum of 3000 per day in supplies, typically more like 3100-3200
<awygle>
maybe i'll make popcorn...
<azonenberg>
Because i need enough to not starve if we're out longer than expected on a real mission
<azonenberg>
And, not only that
<awygle>
or eat dry handfuls of horrible sugary cereal
<azonenberg>
once we rescue somebody who may not have eaten anything in a day or two
<azonenberg>
we need enough left over to give THEM something
<azonenberg>
Preferably without going hungry ourselves
<awygle>
today has been a bad food day for me. i ate... i think 3 bagels and some plain noodles with butter. not ideal.
<azonenberg>
Lol yeah
<awygle>
oh i have greek yogurt and granola. that's ~healthy
<azonenberg>
I was gorging myself sunday night when i got home
<azonenberg>
Probably making up for the calorie deficit from training
<azonenberg>
When i'm exercising that hard i literally cannot eat enough food
<azonenberg>
i'm eating 2500 or so per day but probably burning more like 3500
<awygle>
my sleep schedule is completely out of whack, which throws my eating habits out of whack. i think a nontrivial portion of the negative effects of sleep dep for me are actually food problems.
<azonenberg>
Plausible
* azonenberg
notes he should sleep at some point in the not too distant future
<azonenberg>
i have HVAC cleaning guys coming to the new house tomorrow to try and decon some of the cigarette residue in the ductwork
<azonenberg>
At 0930
<azonenberg>
I'm not at that house :p
<awygle>
i woke up at 10pm from a ~4 hour nap
<azonenberg>
Fun fun
<awygle>
oh no peanut butter keyboard
* azonenberg
goes off to sleep
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