v0n has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
v0n has joined #cinch
botton has joined #cinch
botton has left #cinch [#cinch]
v0n has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
bean__ has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
rikai has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rikai has joined #cinch
v0n has joined #cinch
bean__ has joined #cinch
jmaister has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
jmaister has joined #cinch
<rikai>
Woo, my pull request finally got merged upstream. Showbot is Cinch 2.0-based now. :)
bean__ has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
<dominikh>
rikai: which PR?
<dominikh>
oh, PR on showbot?
<rikai>
yeh
<dominikh>
was about time, too
<rikai>
Heh. Yeah, submitted it quite a while ago. Mutewinter's a busy guy.
<dominikh>
yeah
<dominikh>
he abandonned #cinch :(
<rikai>
Did he? I thought he'd just not been on irc at all.
<dominikh>
or that
<dominikh>
which is weird for someone running a bot :P
<rikai>
True story. I suppose it makes somewhat sense though, since he created it for others... He's been busy doing crazy emberjs voodoo these days. :P
<dominikh>
emberjs? good thing he ditched this channel then :P
<rikai>
He did a talk on it that made it sound not so bad, even!
<dominikh>
Scientology do that, too ;)
<rikai>
"i dont recommend people use it in production, but i use it since i understand it's innter workings and drawbacks" vaguely paraphrased off the top of my head
<dominikh>
obviously he doesn't, otherwise he wouldn't use it ;)
<dominikh>
ember.js is the next hype that'll fail miserably once people notice its flaws
<rikai>
I dont know much about most ruby things, so i cant be sure wether i should agree with you or laugh and call you silly. :D
<dominikh>
do both, can't be wrong with that
<rikai>
Sounds like a plan. Should also offer a beer for good measure, always a safe bet.
<dominikh>
hehe
<rikai>
I will say one thing, using an updated showbot as a base will be nice. Trying to figure out how to do things in 1.1.3 when 95% of the documentation and projects available are about 2.0 stuff was definitely annoying, to say the least... Ran into "avaialble in 2.0.0" so many times.
<dominikh>
not to mention that I give zero support for 1.x :)
<rikai>
That too.
<dominikh>
even 2.x is kinda old by now
<dominikh>
2.0.0 was released over a year ago
<rikai>
As long as it works, i've got no complaints
<dominikh>
yeah. my point is, anything still on 1.x is too damn old
<rikai>
Maybe i should make that my thing... Just wander the internet, updating old cinch 1.x bots to 2.x for the good of humanity. :P
<dominikh>
I think you updated the last 1.x bot already ;)
<rikai>
Oh no, there's others out there. I ran across several. :P
<dominikh>
oy
<rikai>
Wow, yeah. 1.1.3 will be 2 years out next month.
postmodern has joined #cinch
<catepillar>
when was the first cinch release?
<catepillar>
I just found cinch about a year ago.
<dominikh>
depends. first irc library with the name cinch (injekt's work) or first cinch library that I wrote?
<catepillar>
hmm. seeing as I don't know the difference between the two, I can't really answer that.
<dominikh>
injekt's Cinch was first released in April 2010. it was replaced with my Cinch (V1.0.0) in AUgust 2010.
<dominikh>
they're two entirely incompatible versions of Cinch and are entirely different code bases
<dominikh>
I just inherited the name
<catepillar>
was Cinch 2.0.0 a complete rewrite?
<dominikh>
no, Cinch 2.0 just included some backwards incompatible changes
<dominikh>
but it's mostly based on Cinch 1.x code, with some changes to internals
<catepillar>
ahh
<dominikh>
the changes were necessary to fix shortcomings in the API of 1.x
<catepillar>
so no plans for a 3.0?
<dominikh>
well, for one I mostly stopped developing Cinch, unless some bugs worth fixing crop up
<dominikh>
second, there isn't anything in the API that justifies backwards incompatible changes so far
<catepillar>
fair enough
<dominikh>
so all foreseeable releases are, at most, minor releases
<dominikh>
there are some internal things I would do in a different way, but even then it wouldn't change the public API :)
<catepillar>
im honestly surprised how young cinch is, and how well it works
<dominikh>
2.5 years for an IRC library isn't too young ;)
<catepillar>
i feel like most of the IRC frameworks I researched before settling on cinch were at least 5+
<dominikh>
that's true
<catepillar>
I know the IRC protocol itself isn't terribly complicated... which is why I was surprised to find so few frameworks for ruby
<catepillar>
but this was by far the easiest to extend
<dominikh>
some frameworks for Ruby are utterly over-engineered and Railsy (Autumn, Rbot) and the rest is utterly unidiomatic non-OO :)
<dominikh>
which is the only reason I wrote Cinch
<catepillar>
that's what scared me about autumn
<catepillar>
required a database iirc
<dominikh>
I think that was rbot
<dominikh>
but it's possible. I didn't look at it for more than 5 minutes :)
<catepillar>
i had no plans to build in a database into my bot... i didn't see the need
<catepillar>
I see it now, but then... lol
<dominikh>
hehe
<dominikh>
Cinch had/has plans for a persistent storage API.
<dominikh>
optional to use, of course
<dominikh>
and, unfortunately, not finished
<catepillar>
In Autumn, your leaves run in an environment, called a “season.”
<catepillar>
that scared me too... the jargon.
<dominikh>
yeah.
<dominikh>
I got as far as "leaves" before I... left
<catepillar>
and rbot seemed too muhc like an infobot
<catepillar>
*seems
<catepillar>
just from reading their front page
<dominikh>
yeah
<dominikh>
Cinch isn't really a "bot framework" but more of an IRC library
<dominikh>
there's no built-in rights management, config format or default plugins
<catepillar>
right
<dominikh>
(well, an IRC library with a lot of naming and structure geared towards bots…)
<catepillar>
That's what made it right for me. I was (still am) building something that totally didn't exist
<dominikh>
what's that?
<catepillar>
it's bascially an information retrival system for a game I play
<catepillar>
we have factions and stuff, and the built in faction control is pretty weak
<dominikh>
what game is that?
<catepillar>
but it uses HTTP requests
<dominikh>
anything one might know?
<catepillar>
called Tyrant
<dominikh>
so no :P
<catepillar>
you can find it on kongregate
<catepillar>
but yea, it's small, about 5k people
<catepillar>
i know leftylink from there
<dominikh>
oh, kongregate, heh. I always skip the multiplayer stuff on there
<dominikh>
those games tend to have weird communities
<catepillar>
indeed
<catepillar>
if it weren't for the community, and the coding I do, I wouldn't play
<catepillar>
the game itself is easy and stupid.
<dominikh>
heh
<catepillar>
so if you were to implement a "cinch-based persistant storage", what would you build it off? sql of some sort?
<dominikh>
the persistent storage in Cinch would've just been an API that you could implement (with some defaults being shipped) for any backend you'd like. mostly a key/value storage sort of thing. sqlite would've been an option, as well as plain YAML
<dominikh>
I know some who go through the pain of using activerecord, I know of some using sqlite or datamapper together with an sqlite backend, and I know some who use YAML, with their cinch bots and their own helper methods
<catepillar>
if you are doing key/value, YAML is probably better, but I haven't ever messed with it before
<catepillar>
i just recently moved all my sqlite data to mysql (concurrency was killing me)
<dominikh>
mysql *shudders*
<catepillar>
it's really not bad. lol
<dominikh>
if at least it were mariadb ;) but I prefer postgresql
<catepillar>
well, i say "mysql", but really, I am using maria
<dominikh>
well, that's something.
<dominikh>
still not my first choice :)
<catepillar>
i liked sqlite
<catepillar>
other than the updating of a database couldn't happen at the same time as accessing
<dominikh>
sqlite is nice for low-volume stuff and single-user programs
<catepillar>
and the code I was using to update wasn't even written in the same language as the access language
<catepillar>
so without a file lock, it was pointless
<dominikh>
heh
<dominikh>
just yesterday I started a new project and was wondering if sqlite could handle multiple applications modifying and reading from the same sqlite database :)
<dominikh>
not surprised it's not possible
<catepillar>
well, you have to write the protections yourself
<catepillar>
mysql/maria take care of it for you
<dominikh>
yeah, not worth the trouble, especially considering that I'd use sqlite only during development
<dominikh>
otoh it was a valid candidate for production use, but oh well. not going to write my own locking :)