ChanServ changed the topic of #crystal-lang to: The Crystal programming language | http://crystal-lang.org | Crystal 0.19.4 | Fund Crystals development: http://is.gd/X7PRtI | Paste > 3 lines of text to https://gist.github.com | GH: https://github.com/crystal-lang/crystal | Docs: http://crystal-lang.org/docs/ | API: http://crystal-lang.org/api/ | Logs: http://irclog.whitequark.org/crystal-lang
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<A124> So.. I have not been there around much, but love to see stuff going. Thinking about what to pick for processing stuff and data. Golang, crystal at this stage, or something else? Speed is concern, so it shall be compiled or bytecode. One think I am curious about... how and where would Crystal fit in this: https://talks.golang.org/2014/gocon-tokyo.slide
<A124> And a we all know, as much as some of us love Ruby, we hate it at the same time for performance.
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> im using it in an ETL and it changes my development cycle its so quick
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> where previously i would do test runs for small slices of data, now i can do huge chunks very quickly
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> although the lack of some of my frequently used gems slows me down ocassionally
<A124> Thank you for feedback.
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> The gem space will fill in over time, and the language is a pleasure to use
<A124> I drifted from Ruby as I tend to need performance to reduce hardware requirements. Thanks to another project I did bump into go. Not as fast as C but you can do stuff without pulling hair after you get in with the ways how to code.
<A124> I did think about nim also. But seems it is behind in the game. And go is getting better in performance, while crystal is getting pretty darn usable.
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> I get immense satisfaction from Crystal, and find it no more burdensome typing things when required. ⏎ In fact i wish Ruby had been typed like this from the beginning … Crystal is elegant fast and predictable.
<A124> I would like to see tcp concurrency benchmarks, but do not posses the time to do so in all three languages. A good example would be HTTP(S) fetch given list of links).
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> start with this ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=58044cea78bd0d0363cce7b2]
<A124> Go was behind C in handling that and in fact an application now is bottlenecked on bad code to handle application specific stuff plus networking. We found that it spawns many go routine threads and context switching of the CPU does consume a lot.
<A124> Which was improved in 1.7. Plus there was the kernel CPU scheduler bug made finaly big voice in beginning of this year. So it is getting overall better.
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<Yxhuvud> @johnjansen: you can probably put back all but the first character of the match and try again and iterate until you don't find more matches, but the performance of that would be awful.
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<Yxhuvud> (it would take rindex with regexp to O(n²) (assuming linear implementation of regexps, which is a big assumption)
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<crystal-gh> [crystal] Lukc opened pull request #3430: Adds an “if” method to Bool. (master...master) https://git.io/vPPsS
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<jokke> hello
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<jokke> there's @type.methods but is there a macro method to get _all_ methods (own, included and inherited)
<BlaXpirit> jokke, no
<jokke> why not?
<BlaXpirit> i dunno, it's probably hard
<BlaXpirit> it's possible that the macro stage happens before this is even known
<jokke> it's possible to get the parent class and included modules, right?
<jokke> so this would just be a recursion
<BlaXpirit> i think currently the known information is only what's directly written in the syntax
<BlaXpirit> semantic probably goes after macros
<jokke> mh ok, would've thought it's compiled in two stages
<jokke> or as many stages as there are macro expansions
<jokke> but i guess that would slow thing down quite a bit :D
<jokke> *things
<BlaXpirit> jokke, parent class and included modules are known, yeah, one could use those to get previous methods but then you'd kinda be reimplementing half of the semantic stage
<jokke> mmh
<jokke> i'd kinda need this for my mocking lib :P
<jokke> to catch unstubbed method calls
<jokke> ahh
<jokke> ah no
<jokke> there should be some kind of specialized responds_to? that checks arguments as well
<jokke> then i could use that in a method missing hook
<BlaXpirit> ok yeah, that's no go
<jokke> BlaXpirit: another thing: can i modify a type alias in a macro (e.g. add types to form a union type)
<jokke> ah never mind, that wouldn't work because i can't know the types of arguments and return types for sure in macro context
<BlaXpirit> you can't modify any nodes in macro context
<jokke> i can modify constants
<BlaXpirit> all you can do is write it out like {{t1}} | Asdf
<jokke> not reassign
<BlaXpirit> and call another macro with the result
<jokke> but i can add to them
<jokke> or whatever
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<FromGitter> <raydf> Hi everyone
<FromGitter> <raydf> Any way to set a default for a json mapping with Time.now?
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<FromGitter> <raydf> Found it in the specs, thanks anyway.
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<crystal-gh> [crystal] asterite closed pull request #3430: Adds an “if” method to Bool. (master...master) https://git.io/vPPsS
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<crystal-gh> [crystal] asterite pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vPX1g
<crystal-gh> crystal/master ae551e9 Denis Defreyne: Fix #divmod (#3426)
<crystal-gh> [crystal] asterite pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vPX1r
<crystal-gh> crystal/master c020630 chocolateboy: fix varname typo: original_filanme -> original_filename
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<FromGitter> <johnjansen> ok guys, suggestions how to emulate the following Ruby in the cleanest possible way (this is part of a Ruby->Crystal port) ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=580514692189c68f42f5439e]
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @johnjansen not sure but alias m = Mod
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> should work
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> ill try that Serdar ;-)
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> :+1:
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> I get `expecting token 'CONST', not 'm'` when I try that
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> so do i
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> :-(
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> ugh
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> does it expect M
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> doing the `puts m::HI` I get `expected named argument, not m`
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> yeah remove the word `puts`
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> you will get `unexpected token: ::`
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=580515432189c68f42f54878]
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> this works
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> oh yeah … nice
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> lol
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> so simple!
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> hacks ;-)
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> :joy:
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> so just learned that an alias must start with an upper case :D
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> now to see if it works in the place i need it
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> hope so
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @johnjansen what are you porting
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> yeah and … :: must be preceded by a CONST
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> @sdogruyol pragmatic_tokenizer
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> sounds cool even though i dont know what it is :D
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> its a bit of a b*it*h though, alot of includes etc
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> :)
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> well that was an awesome hack that wont work for me :-(
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> bummer, ok refactor
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> crap
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> now let's see if my old mac mini can handle new World of Warcraft expansion :D
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> lol. nice. I haven't played WoW in like 10 years
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> enjoy
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @jwoertink same here lol
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @johnjansen how's your recovery going on? Hope it's going well
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> yeah, foots swollen up, but getting better … 1000th of a second earlier and i could be dead though
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> so im happy
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> thank god
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> totally
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> my brother had an motorbike accident last week i know what you mean
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> he nearly lost his leg thank god he's recovering now
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> yeah … motorcycles, bikes, electric scooters are so dangerous … not in and of themselves
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> agree
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> Anyone able to run anything in the play.crystal-lang.org?
<RX14> nope
<RX14> jhass?
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> In firefox, the language list doesn't even come up
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> it does in chrome, just nothing runs
<RX14> it's a 500 in the API
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<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @asterite https://github.com/asterite/fast_sleep lol
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> what the heck
<FromGitter> <jwoertink> LOL
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> :D
<RX14> it's not april 1st...
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> glad there isnt a fast_snore shard to go with that
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> roflmao
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> today i learned that go has image manipulation stuff in the std
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> that's really interesting
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> yeah, Go has some good stuff happening, although Crystal is so enjoyable to work with IMO
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @johnjansen can't agree more
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> Crystal is for human just like Ruby
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> it's Ruby++
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> totally ...
<Papierkorb> Is there a example app or library around which makes heavy use of IO (esp TCP sockets) in fibers?
<RX14> Papierkorb, kemal?
<RX14> anything using http
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @papierkorb have you seen this https://github.com/sdogruyol/cryload
<RX14> thats quite a broad thing
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> it uses fibers till the end :P
<FromGitter> <raydf> @sdogruyol, go-lang took inspiration from .net and java.
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @raydf like?
<RX14> uhh
<RX14> go took more inspiration from C I would have thought
<RX14> considering it's creators
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> yeah
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> i'm just curious
<FromGitter> <raydf> i'm talking about image processing in std lib.
<RX14> oh
<FromGitter> <raydf> the first time i saw this was in .net 2.0
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> imagine all that money and r&d pouring into something like Crystal
<RX14> java's stdlib is super annoying
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> Java is impossible to use without an IDE
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> bloatfest
<RX14> oh but the IDEs are amazing
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> yeah but still
<RX14> it's missing stuff you need in most programs from the stdlib
<RX14> then it has image processing
<RX14> it's weird
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> it's so cumbersome to get started that makes me sick
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> meanwhile i used Java a lot back in the days :P
<crystal-gh> [crystal] chocolateboy opened pull request #3432: Fix doc typo for Number#divmod (master...fix-divmod-doc-typo) https://git.io/vPX76
<FromGitter> <raydf> scala is an amazing language
<Papierkorb> Java has stuff for Kerberos, but no usable DateTime class on its own.
<RX14> exactly
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> hahaha true
<FromGitter> <raydf> but so slow to compile that i can't stand it
<RX14> @sdogruyol java's quite easy to get started
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @RX14 i mean it's not that easy to get results
<RX14> oh
<RX14> hmm
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> especially if you're used to Ruby-like stuff
<RX14> i'm 50/50 on that
<FromGitter> <raydf> about the ide for crystal, is there any tool that has goto definition?
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> and Java is so hungry
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> it literally eats memory lol
<FromGitter> <raydf> Nice @johnjansen, last time i used was around 2014.
<RX14> @sdogruyol more like it's constant memory
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> Scala > Java ⏎ cant ever make myself go to Java
<RX14> java 8's very usable in all honesty
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @RX14 well yeah after getting JITted and warm :P
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> i didnt say it is not but
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> i cant stand it :P
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> haha +1
<RX14> well i'm talking more like if you set the memory parameters exactly right the memory usage is really quite good
<RX14> ok
<RX14> not good but ok
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> yeah i agree
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> it's OK
<RX14> i would have no issue using java for any project, especially if I was allowed java 8
<RX14> it's a solid language with solid tooling
<RX14> and i respect it for that
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> same here
<Yxhuvud> well, unless you have a lot of very long lived (but not immortal) objects. that is eventually really harshh for the GC.
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<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> @RX14 the truth is that most of the Java code that's written and in production right now is utter crap
<Yxhuvud> because suddenly you get a pause for 1sec/GB heap when the full compaction hits
<RX14> @sdogruyol that may be true
<RX14> i wouldn't want a legacy java codebase
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> that's really hard to find :P
<RX14> but if you're sensible with java it can work really well
<RX14> i think java gets an unneccesary reputation for being bad, while it's only fault is being plaugued by enterprise programmers who *don't really care* and just use the latest (anti)pattern they've learnt
<Yxhuvud> it has certainly improved a lot over the years
<FromGitter> <raydf> kotlin also is an amazing language for the jvm.
<RX14> yeah nowadays I would probably use either kotlin or groovy
<RX14> probably kotlin
<FromGitter> <sdogruyol> Crystal is amazing too :D
<RX14> oh yeah i forgot about that one
<FromGitter> <raydf> :)
<Papierkorb> I have an issue with a fiber which does #read on a TCPSocket, and then shoves that into a channel. Sometimes, it ends up consuming 100% CPU time in LibC.read - Will have to write a smaller example tomorrow to see if I can reproduce
<rkeene> That is a huge URL.
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> yeah sorry about that ...
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<travis-ci> crystal-lang/crystal#ae551e9 (master - Fix #divmod (#3426)): The build passed. https://travis-ci.org/crystal-lang/crystal/builds/168384242
<crystal-gh> [crystal] BlaXpirit opened pull request #3434: Unify Random and SecureRandom (master...secure-rng) https://git.io/vP1Tj
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<FromGitter> <johnjansen> @asterite @bcardiff any thoughts on adding String#length => String#size for convenience?
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<Papierkorb> johnjansen, I preferred String#length in ruby (and C++/Qt for that matter), but I don't like tons of aliases, so with that, what's wrong with String#size ?
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> nothing, but tell that to the tons of Ruby code that needs only a minor change to work as is ;-)
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> it was just a question ;-)
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<Papierkorb> Well, despite me liking String#length, but because of the generic-algorithm and general consistency I don't like the RFC ^^;
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> im ok with whatever honestly
<Papierkorb> yeah it's not a show-stopper eitherway
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> my only thought is that moving from language to language is often hard, this time its easy … although pesky little things like this can get irritating and i dont want the `why wouldnt they have added it, its like one line dude` comments to detract from the wonderful language
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<Crizkov> Hi Crystal community! Someone knows How execute SDL crystal samples on Linux?
<Crizkov> I got this error `undefined reference to `SDL_main'`
<Crizkov> But SDL is already installed
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<Crizkov> :-)
<BlaXpirit> Crizkov, what version of SDL
<BlaXpirit> Crizkov, eh i'm getting the same
<Crizkov> BlaXpirit: `sdl 1.2.15` on Manjaro
<Crizkov> BlaXpirit: I commented `fun main` on `samples/sdl/sdl/lib_sdl.cr` and the sdl samples work well
<BlaXpirit> hm good find. strange that this is done at all
<Crizkov> BlaXpirit: BTW, the SDL examples looks pretty good!
<BlaXpirit> Crizkov, heh i've never seen them. too bad they don't have many moving parts
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<BlaXpirit> Crizkov, also shameless plug https://github.com/BlaXpirit/crsfml-examples
<BlaXpirit> I don't understand why the problem happens or why the SDL_main stuff even is there, maybe worth opening an issue?
<Crizkov> BlaXpirit: Ok, opening a issue can help, Thanks you! SFML has good samples, and CrSFML is a great work!!! I'm learning SFML now :-)
<Crizkov> BlaXpirit: The `2048.cr` is addictive when I play and when I'm inside the code X-D
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<travis-ci> crystal-lang/crystal#c020630 (master - fix varname typo: original_filanme -> original_filename): The build passed. https://travis-ci.org/crystal-lang/crystal/builds/168384398
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<FromGitter> <johnjansen> anyone know the crystal equivalent of this ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=5805646d482925776131d477]
<FromGitter> <johnjansen> off the top of their head