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<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> Is it possible to update the call stack? For example, if you have a recursive function, remove all calls to that function from the stack?
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<FromGitter>
<samueleaton> Does anyone have experience working with parser? There aren't any comments and or guides and I would like to make an addition. ⏎ ⏎ Basically, I was thinking it would be cool to be able to splat a tuple just like you can in a method definition, but during multiple assignment. Like this: ⏎ ⏎ ```code paste, see link``` [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=59b9d56ac101bc4e3ac415ed]
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<FromGitter>
<samueleaton> @slava-dzyba What were you using for benchmarking. I'd like to replicate it.
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<FromGitter>
<bew> @jwaldrip don't use yield if you want to inspect the block, add the argument &block, and use block.args or something like that (look at the docs)
<FromGitter>
<bew> @bararchy never heard / read about it, so I think the response is no (not sure at all)
<Papierkorb_>
Mornin'
<FromGitter>
<bew> @bararchy just seen you opened an issue, maybe I should read them before the gitter in my wakeup process ˆˆ
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> @bew lol all good , it was like "do we have ntlm?" ... Searching ... Basic auth.
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> Nope ... I'll ask in hitter
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> Hitter
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> Lol
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> Hitter
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> OMG autocorrect
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> Then was like , I'll just open a feature request
<Papierkorb_>
bararchy, there's a "windows authentication" ticket in the wanted shards repo
<Papierkorb_>
they probably were thinking about ntlm too
<FromGitter>
<Rinkana> Papierkorb, i've made an issue for that `self.class` proc thing. Just to make shure that is is atleast working as intended.
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> But I really think it's something that should live in STD at least NTLM, as for Kerberos and GSSAPI I can argue that it might better live off in a shard
<Papierkorb_>
If I had the time I'd be inclined to actually look into Kerberos
<Groogy>
Morning!
<FromGitter>
<bew> 'ning!
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<FromGitter>
<bararchy> Papierkorb_ Kerberos is the root of all evil, you need krb5 , tickets, delegation, keytabs, etc... It's awful
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> Hi Groogy ! how goes your game engine ?
<Papierkorb_>
bararchy, oh it's a nightmare. Once it works it's a miracle though.
<Groogy>
Working on font rendering right now, trying to get TTF to work
<Papierkorb_>
Kinda hell an heaven - In a single (huge) protocol! Not often you have that :P
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> LOL
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<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> Morning everyone
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> morning @sdogruyol
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<FromGitter>
<ziprandom> morning people (this side of the atlantic)
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> :)
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<FromGitter>
<krypton97> morning all, sort of :)
<FromGitter>
<krypton97> how is syscall implemented in crystal, assebly or c bindings?
<FromGitter>
<krypton97> nvm, just read through the docs
<FromGitter>
<krypton97> api*
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<FromGitter>
<ziprandom> hey is `as` still meant to be a reserved word? https://play.crystal-lang.org/#/r/2pzj it's now used as a method on Object so I should be able to use it as a variable name, no?
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<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> you probably cant use it
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<FromGitter>
<ziprandom> yeah obviously but the error is pretty oscure
<FromGitter>
<ziprandom> obscure
<FromGitter>
<ziprandom> and standalone as like `a as String` is not allowed anymore, right? So `as` should be removed from the reserved words list ..
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<hightower4>
Do we have a lib for generating uuids?
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<FromGitter>
<ansarizafar> I am new to Crystal and I am trying to convert my Graphql inspired data layer with batching, arguments validation and ACL support, from Nodejs to Crystal. I was using map and simple objects in javascript. Is there any data validation shard available?
<FromGitter>
<ansarizafar> I think NamedTuples stored in Hash will do the job as unlike javascript Array don't have any find method
<FromGitter>
<asterite> I'd avoid using NamedTuples as much as possible. Always use Hash. NamedTuples just represent named arguments.
<FromGitter>
<ansarizafar> Hash can't store more than one value for each key right?
<RX14>
yes, but you can just use an array for the value
<FromGitter>
<ansarizafar> I need to store multiple values for each key. Two arrays and one proc. That's why I am thinking about Namedtuples stored in a hash
<FromGitter>
<asterite> You can use a struct too, or a class. But if NamedTuple works for you, go ahead
<FromGitter>
<ansarizafar> ok. Thanks
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<FromGitter>
<zyriuse75> i would want to help the community. First i would want to translate the doc in French but unfortunately i cant found where is the doc on git-hub.
<FromGitter>
<zyriuse75> Someone can tell me where i can find it in english ??
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> Do you really need it @bew ?
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<crystal-gh>
[crystal] asterite opened pull request #4972: debug: don't set end_location at function exit (master...bug/debug-end-location) https://git.io/v5HUm
<FromGitter>
<zyriuse75> thank man i going to help you as i can ;)
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<crystal-gh>
[crystal] asterite closed pull request #4659: Parser: correctly lex the prefix of keyword in macro (master...fix/crystal/lex-part-of-keyword-in-macro) https://git.io/vQ05i
<FromGitter>
<mverzilli> Hi @zyriuse75, do you mean the book or the API docs?
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> yeha API docs are inside the actual doe , not sure if it supports multi lang
<FromGitter>
<mverzilli> yes, not sure about the API docs. probably we could generate them in a gettext friendly way and use Pootle to manage the translation efforts
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<FromGitter>
<bew> About translations, I would suggest to wait 1.0 before making them, because if there are modifications, it'll be hard (I think) to keep track of modifications of all translations available..
<FromGitter>
<bew> @bararchy I dont't NEED it, but it's one of the reason I like crystal, it's so cool to be able to do that!..
<crystal-gh>
[crystal] asterite pushed 6 new commits to master: https://git.io/v5HIt
<crystal-gh>
crystal/master b6d9ca5 Ary Borenszweig: Fix malloc and realloc for 64 bits platforms
<FromGitter>
<mverzilli> that's what systems like Pootle help you manage, but yes, it's not easy to keep everything in sync with just 1 person per language
<FromGitter>
<bew> I don't know about Pootle, if it can help reducing issues regarding this then it's awesome! but in the heart I don't think its a good idea to duplicate efforts before its stable..
<FromGitter>
<mverzilli> yeah, just don't feed the trolls
<FromGitter>
<mverzilli> before replying take some time to evaluate whether that person is looking for a sane exchange of opinions or just throwing shit at the fan
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Yeah, Thanks you for your advice, I'm newbie on Reddit 😅
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<elbuki>
My god, how toxic...
<elbuki>
I don't understand why they're so butthurt...
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<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> typical reddit trolls
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> Yes, the internet is mostly trolling and clickbait...sad really.
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> any media...
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> Reminds me of this blog: https://schneems.com/. The author wrote about concurrency or locking, but did not address the most difficult issue. Got so many negative comments...so sad.
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> It has some interesting posts so I subscribed...
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<FromGitter>
<krypton97> Well, I've seen worst on go reddit. Anyway, any good website where I can look for templates web design?
<elbuki>
I guess is that kind of developers that are stuck to use a group a languages because that's what pay their bills
<elbuki>
And they don't investigate about better alternatives
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<FromGitter>
<jwaldrip> Been awhile since we have seen a Crystal version bump. Some good things coming?
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<FromGitter>
<bew> good things yes (a lot of good pr merged!), when? no idea ^^
<FromGitter>
<jwaldrip> Good. Hopefully I can get my YAML PR in before the release.
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<RX14>
if only there was some tool to scour reddit and HN and notify me when there was any thread related to crystal
<RX14>
i thought i saw something like this a few years ago, but like any random project you vaguely remember from a few youars ago - you can never find it on google again
<RX14>
I think the top comment in that thread has a few good points though, however badly presented
<RX14>
we don't recommend using crystal in production ourselves after all
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Hey RX14, would core team publish a beta before 1.0 ?
<RX14>
we don't have a beta and an alpha
<RX14>
we have pre-1.0
<RX14>
and post-1.0
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> @RX14 you can't force anyone though
<RX14>
we don't want to define a "beta" cut-off point
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> use at your own risk (TM) :)
<RX14>
there's just a slow gradient from alpha quality to release at 1.0
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Oh I see, Thanks for clarify
<RX14>
we will do pre-releases before 1.0
<RX14>
but thats slightly different
<RX14>
as they're more of a "if nobody finds any bugs in this this is what we'll release verbaitm"
<RX14>
or design bugs
<RX14>
i don't think alpha/beta is binary either
<elbuki>
why Crystal is not suitable for production?
<RX14>
whether a tool is apha or beta quality depends very much on your usecase
<RX14>
so it's pretty pointless to describe your won work as alpha or beta in my opinion
<RX14>
elbuki, there's a lot of bugs and a lot of changes still going through
<RX14>
the ecosystem is not mature either
<RX14>
it's not so much that crystal isnt suited for production
<RX14>
its that we wouldn't recommend it for production
<RX14>
because we don't know in what ways crystal is not suited for production yet
<RX14>
because we simply dont have a large enough sample size or test period
<RX14>
it may work perfectly for you, it may not, who knows
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> well explained @RX14 👍
<RX14>
with a more mature language you can evaluate it a lot more easilly because theres a lot more information out there
<RX14>
and thats in addition to the bugs that havent been hammered out
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> we use it in prod, and a bunch other companies, all depends on how brave you are
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> LOL
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> haha same
<RX14>
personally i'd be confortable using crystal in production but then, i know how crystal works at a deep level and i'm involved in fixing the bugs
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<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> yeah, we're probably biased here @bararchy 👍
<RX14>
yeah there's a bench of companies doing it in prod
<RX14>
but that's their decision against our recommendation
<RX14>
so it's much easier for us to say "i told you so" and point to our advice
<RX14>
rather than have people questioning whether the language should ever be used
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> there're inventors and there're early adopters.. and the rest :)
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> RX14 I get this atidute, but then again, you do have "companies using crystal in prod" page in the wiki
<RX14>
another way to think about it is that the "don't use it in production" ias the advice to the 99%
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> I think it's a matter of usecase
<RX14>
there's always 1% of companies which will ignore the advice, and may even do well from it. And we love them because they are the ones driving the language forward
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> :)
<RX14>
@bararchy it might be a good idea to add a note to that page lol
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> LOL
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> we love you guys, but please stop what you're doing
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> hahah
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> something like that ?
<RX14>
well not a "don't stop"
<RX14>
more like
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> P.S: Don't do this
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> haha
<RX14>
"we don't recommend you follow their path without very careful consideration"
<RX14>
"please stop" instead of "don't stop"
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> :D
<elbuki>
Is there a page that mention the companies that use Crystal on production?
<FromGitter>
<crisward> @faustinoaq 😟 Wow that was harsh, especially from someone who really doesn't have the first clue about the projects we're using this on.
<FromGitter>
<crisward> (this reddit link)
<elbuki>
I wonder how the vendoring discussion in this chat ended... I'm sorry, it was very interesting to watch...
<FromGitter>
<crisward> I don't have a reddit account, don't think I want to get involved.
<elbuki>
Thanks, oprypin.
<FromGitter>
<fridgerator> its not worth it, just kids throwing poop
<oprypin>
and what is Crystal's blogosphere? just kids throwing rainbows? "helloworld" everywhere?
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> lol
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> please no
<oprypin>
literally half of the articles are "wow i just downloaded crystal and it's amazing"
<oprypin>
that reminds me of an article i started over a month ago -_-
<FromGitter>
<fridgerator> you are negative a lot
<Groogy>
that thread is so reddit it can come as
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> > its not worth it, just kids throwing poop ⏎ ⏎ I have found the best way to deal with trolls is do not read their posts.
<elbuki>
I like how actual devs are getting involved in the discussion
<elbuki>
actual crystal devs*
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> > yeah, just don't feed the trolls ⏎ ⏎ I will apply always. ⏎ ⏎ I'm newbie on Internet communities. In fact Crystal is the first community I joined, so I'm unfamiliar with trolls. ... [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=59bacb297b7d98d30df63d50]
<FromGitter>
<crisward> @georgeu2000 I'm sure it's good advice.
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> They more I think about it and read it and respond, the more it bothers me.
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> But if I don't read or respond, then I just forget about it.
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> Problem solved.
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> I agree
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> 👍
<Groogy>
I find it weird how people seem to be personally hurt by the fact that something different exists?
<FromGitter>
<crisward> I can't work out what he's angry about... he seems to be frustrated by his devs messing with new stuff and not getting stuff done. I can understand that, but not sure it has anything to do with the article.
<elbuki>
Being used to something in software development is a deal breaker.
<elbuki>
People should be able be open to learn something new.
<Papierkorb>
To be honest, I've seen such toxic mindsets on such a large scale only in webdev.
<Papierkorb>
Stopped counting the blog posts that came of as "I know what you should use because it's the only good solution, and yours sucks". Many are completely incapable of realising that their use-case ain't the same as everyone elses
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<FromGitter>
<crisward> I can be a high pressure environment, think some are closer to popping than others.
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> > personally i'd be confortable using crystal in production but then, i know how crystal works at a deep level and i'm involved in fixing the bugs ⏎ ⏎ RX14, What are the main issues that are blocking Crystal 1.0 ? ⏎ ⏎ Removing parallelism, Windows support and incremental compilation from the list. [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=59bacd0f210ac269203039e9]
<FromGitter>
<crisward> @faustinoaq that's a big question...
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> @crisward Do you have some updated graphs about traffic in your website ? I like to see Crystal performance :)
<Papierkorb>
Also CPU load and memory graphs if you recorded those
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<oprypin>
i want to make a not entirely boring looking diagram with a lot of rectangles and arrows. any recommendations for tools? :|
<FromGitter>
<crisward> It's on a shared server with gitlab, so I have server graphs but crystal makes up a tiny percentage. Gitlab is ruby and its quite hungry even though it's only used by 5 of us. The sites traffic hasn't been hit that much. About 2,000 page views in the last 24 hrs.
<elbuki>
Is Google Drawings boring for you?
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> @papierkorb draw.io
<FromGitter>
<krypton97> That could be build with a dom scraper and a listener to notify on changes
<Papierkorb>
*looks at keyboard* I can see how you can mis-tab that
<oprypin>
more likely just looking at the author one message off
<FromGitter>
<krypton97> Referring to the reddit/hn notifier though..
<oprypin>
thanks, sdogruyol
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<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> > i want to make a not entirely boring looking diagram with a lot of rectangles and arrows. any recommendations for tools? :| ⏎ ⏎ Inkscape 😉
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Oh, draw.io is better 😅 Thanks for sharing @sdogruyol
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> @oprypin - I used gliffy (https://www.gliffy.com) and it is pretty good. But no free plan...
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<FromGitter>
<fridgerator> draw.io also recently released desktop application, using technology whos name I dare not mention here
<Papierkorb>
I'm just waiting for a electron browser for electron "desktop" applications
<Papierkorb>
Built in electron, so we can stack browser in browsers as hierarchical tab management to make it perfect
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<Yxhuvud>
oprypin: graphwiz if you and to generate the diagram
<Yxhuvud>
and->want
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<FromGitter>
<Rinkana> Hmm, i'm getting 503 errors for crystal-lang.org/api . It looks like it's trying to tell me something :P
<FromGitter>
<bew> me too
<FromGitter>
<georgeu2000> I heard S3 is down.
<Papierkorb>
"But the cloud is never down! How can it be! That's not what I signed up for" bawls the manager before deciding the switch to Azure for no technical reason
<FromGitter>
<Rinkana> I wish
<FromGitter>
<Rinkana> But i hope that at least i won't get the nightly calls then
<Yxhuvud>
Papierkorb: heh. That argument may have worked before the large dns outage last year
<Papierkorb>
(Referencing the infamous azure fails of the last years)
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> not sure what do you mean by modern. hopefully not an app with full of weird js config
<Papierkorb>
faustinoaq, in fact, it's why I'm thinking about adding CMake as dependency. It's quite popular, and would help tremendously with "where the heck are my headers?" issues like Mac OS is facing right now
<FromGitter>
<exts> any more complex/large scale projects out there?
<FromGitter>
<exts> and i probably shouldn't have used 'modern', lack of a better word
<crystal-gh>
[crystal] asterite closed pull request #4968: Nicer output when an exception bubbles through main (master...feature/better-callstack) https://git.io/v5S6Q
<FromGitter>
<exts> but yeah I only know the php way of web dev which is inching closer to java lately w/ php7, so I need something to learn from to understand the crystal way of web dev
<FromGitter>
<exts> I mean I know crystal, that link doesn't really show me anything outside of the basics. Nothing regarding project architecture, etc...
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<Groogy>
exts project structure for like a web app or?
<FromGitter>
<fridgerator> no kemal doesn't provide a structure
<FromGitter>
<fridgerator> you can look at amber to see a web structure similar to phoenix or rails
<FromGitter>
<fridgerator> kemal is more akin to sinatra, keep it simple
<FromGitter>
<exts> I just kind of want to see if there are any open source projects out there blog, cms, etc... to see how people are approaching things. I'm more of a visual learner when it comes to certain things.
<FromGitter>
<exts> @elbuki raze looks pretty cool though, will keep an eye on it
<FromGitter>
<exts> was working on something myself called Crim, which was inspired by php's slim, but I took like an 8 month break from crystal - so I'm debating on how I jump back into the fold
<FromGitter>
<exts> https://github.com/exts/Crim was something that I used to help me learn crystal, but I want to completely scrap this and work on something else
<FromGitter>
<crisward> I don't mind sharing how I structure my web app. But it's nothing ground breaking. Just the usual separation of concerns. Keeping stuff simple. I think the challenging bits are those which involve web sockets. That path isn't as quite as well trodden as rest api's and database abstraction layers.
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> > was working on something myself called Crim, which was inspired by php's slim ⏎ ⏎ Slim is also a template engine for Ruby, so in Crystal we have Slang (https://github.com/jeromegn/slang)
<elbuki>
Is there a JSON REST API based framework?
<FromGitter>
<exts> @faustinoaq I mean slim-framework when I said slim slimframework.com
<FromGitter>
<exts> as for template engine, i'd prefer something like liquid which I helped port a few filters when I was actively writing crystal https://github.com/TechMagister/liquid.cr
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Yeah, Liquid is good too :)
<FromGitter>
<exts> actually that might not be useful since that code was tailored to how TechMagister wrote his port
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<crystal-gh>
[crystal] asterite opened pull request #4974: Don't find T in generic type that's not the current type. Fixes #4460 (master...bug/4460-fix-generic-type-bug) https://git.io/v5Qcl
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