<B0101> Azonenberg: Did you fix your mask problem?
<azonenberg> Lol, i keep missing B0101
<azonenberg> So I just got some tungsten wire
<azonenberg> planning to make probe tips from it
<azonenberg> Anybody have ideas on cutting it?
<azonenberg> In any case, it will be sharpened by electrochemical etching
<bart416> uhm, how clean of an edge do you need?
<bart416> btw azonenberg, uploading that book
<azonenberg> bart416: thx
<azonenberg> And not very clean
<azonenberg> i just tried metal shears
<bart416> Just use a wire cutter then :|
<azonenberg> They'll be electropolished after
<azonenberg> And i didnt want to use my normal wire cutters as they arnet meant for hard stuff
<bart416> Those knipex cutters are perfect for this sort of thing
<bart416> do you have cutting plates from a metal working machine like a lathe or mill?
<bart416> Say when you finished so I can delete it again
<azonenberg> bart416: I do not, but one of the labs at my school has a lathe and a mill
<azonenberg> So i can use them for building instruments if need be
<azonenberg> Several of each, actually
<bart416> Well, the cutting plate of most mills and lathes are made out of high speed steel
<azonenberg> And file is downloaded
<bart416> Fairly strong material
<bart416> Anybody else want it?
<bart416> just don't use a new cutting plate for it though
<bart416> But HSS sort of contains tungsten
<bart416> + it's hardened
<azonenberg> Ah
<bart416> So if you use an old cutting plate you should get through it just fine
<azonenberg> The wire is only 400 microns diameter
<azonenberg> My shears worked fine
<bart416> But heayh, should give a clean cut without damaging it
<bart416> *yeah
<bart416> They're designed to go through high carbon steel :P
<bart416> At the speed of a few meter / second
<bart416> So they're fairly resilient :P
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> My back is killing me
<bart416> And so are my shoulders and so are my arms and hands
<azonenberg> Why?
<bart416> Exam analog circuit design!
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> Actually not cause of that
<bart416> Had to "remove" 16.2 square meter of tiles in our backyard
<azonenberg> Oh lol
<bart416> issue, they're sort of in a concrete-ish substance
<bart416> 15-20 cm thick
<bart416> So had to use a heavy duty breaker
<azonenberg> Reminds me of ripping out concrete at home
<azonenberg> cracked landing midway up the front steps
<bart416> You know, Hilti, 1.8kW, 15kg
<bart416> That sort of thing
<azonenberg> Lol, i see
<bart416> "Active Shock Reduction System" my ass :|
<azonenberg> In our case we managed to yank the entire slab loose
<azonenberg> Then blast it with a sledgehammer
<bart416> Heh, the tiles would splinter if you used a sledgehammer
<azonenberg> and pour a new piece
<bart416> ceramics flying around at high speed = bad idea
<azonenberg> This was 4+ inch concrete
<azonenberg> And we put a heavy tarp over it to catch shrapnel
<bart416> Heh, our house used to be owned by a person that worked at a concrete plant
<bart416> So he had free access to concrete and other building materials...
<bart416> We noticed it when trying to demolish a small wall
<azonenberg> Lol
<bart416> Ever saw a high end diamond cutting blade break due to the material it was encountering?
<azonenberg> No, then again i've never used them
<azonenberg> My only diamond cutters are for scoring silicon
<bart416> Well yeah, diamond blades on angle grinders = fun
<bart416> Goes through everything
<bart416> Except that wall >_>
<azonenberg> Lol
<bart416> Eventually we use the breaker
<bart416> And then rammed it a few times with a friend's landrover defender >_>
<azonenberg> Lol
<azonenberg> Wow
<bart416> The wall came down in a single piece...
<azonenberg> o_O
<bart416> We had to cut it up with a breaker
<bart416> And cut through the steel wires (yes tensioned concrete :| )...
<azonenberg> this was a dinky little retaining wall
<bart416> We simply threw it in the back of a van and disposed it like that
<bart416> lol
<azonenberg> made of prestressed reinforced concrete?
<bart416> Dunno what the guy did
<bart416> I think that wall was nuclear bunker worthy
<azonenberg> Probably :P
<bart416> Never saw that much rebar in my life ever before
<bart416> We decided to just leave the walls the way they were after that
<bart416> Should have pictures of it here somewhere
<bart416> Oh one thing got through, a rotary hammer...
<bart416> But those go through anything really
<azonenberg> Lol
<azonenberg> C4?
<azonenberg> I dont usually do heavy industry type stuff, personally...
<azonenberg> I prefer extreme precision at tiny scales
<bart416> Should have asked my father to bring a tank (he's an officer in the army :P )
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> Leopard tank vs Wall would have been funny
<bart416> Sad reality is that the wall had a high chance of winning
<azonenberg> Well, the problem is that use of the main gun wouldnt be feasible given proximity to civilians and your house
<bart416> The thing with these tools is, they're actually fairly precise
<azonenberg> I'll bet that 120mm APFSDS will go through that concrete no problem lol
<bart416> Uhm, the wall was 40 cm thick...
<bart416> Reinforced tensioned concrete...
<bart416> With a sand layer
<azonenberg> 40cm? Shoudlnt be that bad *looks up penetration stats*
<bart416> 20cm of that would have been steel though...
<bart416> And my father wants to break down a shed the guy built (also in concrete) :|
<azonenberg> Quick googling suggests that current russian APFSDS rounds have penetration equivalent to 65cm of rolled homogeneous steel armor
<bart416> I'm going to go and ask for a crane + wrecking ball
<azonenberg> I dont know how much easier/harder concrete is, but my guess is you'd get most of the way through if not all the way
<bart416> Probably
<bart416> But doubt there'd be much damage after the wall considering how thick it is
<azonenberg> Yeah, you'd be punching a hole through
<bart416> but keep in mind this wasn't even a support wall of the house...
<azonenberg> APFSDS does most of its damage from pyrophoricity on the inside
<azonenberg> Non-explosive
<bart416> I wonder what the support walls look like
<bart416> Should borrow an ultrasound from college lab for a day :P
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> ground penetrating radar?
<bart416> dunno, don't have access to that
<bart416> + an ultrasound I actually know how to use :P
<bart416> ground penetrating radar I do not
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> Too bad you can't just take a piece of a wall out and use a MRI scanner, those are horribly easy to control o_O
<bart416> Really it's a joke with the new software
<bart416> A 5 year old could do it
<azonenberg> lol
<azonenberg> I dont think mri would work well on concrete anyway
<azonenberg> And i'm not too familiar with any penetrating imaging methods
<bart416> I'm more worried about the steel inside of it :P
<azonenberg> I mostly do optical and some electron microscopy
<azonenberg> Ah, forgot it had rebar
<azonenberg> And the guy who trained me on the SEM in our cleanroom says that he's taught 14-year-olds how to use similar models lol
<bart416> If a small none support wall already has rebar...
<bart416> most of these devices aren't really hard
<bart416> Anybody can work with a MRI, just don't bring anything magnetic close to it and you'll be fine
<azonenberg> lol
<bart416> Well, a modern one at least
<bart416> body part, patient position on table (depending on how the table is arranged really), algorithm (you can sometimes choose), single frames, 3D, record over time, ...
<bart416> All nice options in the menus, lol
<bart416> And afterwards it'll ask where to send it if it hasn't been pre configured
<berndj> bart416, you into amateur telescopes or why're you pasting the ingalls link?
<azonenberg> nice
<bart416> Even contains the nice option to burn one of those annoying CDs with those crappy viewers
<azonenberg> berndj: They have a part on sputtering
<bart416> Well, they mention some articles about it
<bart416> + also about other methods of coating
<bart416> And vacuum systems in general
<bart416> And I sort of am actually
<bart416> But I bought my telescope
<bart416> But the mirror has its best time :(
<bart416> You into amateur telescopes berndj ?
<azonenberg> has done a decent amount of astro stuff but never built his own scope
<bart416> I'm probably going to sell mine
<bart416> Too much light polution anyway
<bart416> When I move to a desolated part of Vietnam in about 30-40 years I'll pick it up again
<berndj> yes, i am into amateur telescopes
<berndj> just haven't worked on mine for a few months
<bart416> The cost is prohibitive sadly
<berndj> i don't recall any mention of sputtering, but then again book 3 is the one i don't have
<bart416> Want me to upload it again?
<berndj> what i did see was evaporation
<bart416> That's also covered
<berndj> nah, it's okay
<berndj> you might've had better luck with a thermal lance vs that wall
<azonenberg> I was actually gonna suggest that lol
<bart416> berndj, next time I'm cutting to the rebar and I'm pulling out a plasma cutter
<bart416> Lets see how it likes that >_>
<berndj> oh, azonenberg, what was that about cutting tungsten wire?  for what purpose?
<bart416> he wants to make probes
<berndj> that desktop STM project i may have mentioned (some dude at uni the year before me built one) had probes made from incandescent bulb filaments just pulled apart
<azonenberg> berndj: I have two six-foot pieces of 400 micron tungsten wire from amazon
<azonenberg> only a few dollars each
<bart416> Heh, STM is on my to do list
<berndj> turns out you don't need great precision in forming the tip - almost any chunk of tungsten will have *some* part of it that forms an adequate tip
<bart416> STMs are fairly easy
<azonenberg> I plan to use the STM technique (electrochemical etching) to sharpen them
<azonenberg> Building a STM and later a SEM is on my todo list too
<azonenberg> But i need more workbench space
<berndj> oh, for probing a chip?
<azonenberg> my lab is growing :P
<azonenberg> berndj: Yes
<bart416> What you really need is a good electron microscope so you can see the current flow in future prototypes :P
<azonenberg> I have a wentworth labs probing station that i got used on ebay and am in the process of fixing up (needs some vacuum hoses replaced and a good cleaning but is otherwise in decnet shape)
<berndj> but not an actual STM?
<azonenberg> And an actual STM would be nice too
<azonenberg> But is a bit further out
<bart416> The best part is that you can just take apart a buzzer to get the piezo electrode
<bart416> But don't have a scope so it's hard to build this sort of thing anyway
<bart416> Bah
<bart416> So instead it's going to be the more insane project
<bart416> Try to put an ARM Cortex A8 on a double sided board
<azonenberg> Lol
<azonenberg> Have fun
<azonenberg> is equally insane but wants to do 4 layers on a xilinx BGA fpga
<bart416> Heh
<bart416> Dunno
<bart416> How much pins is it
<bart416> Mine is 400 or 500 or something like that
<bart416> Also where do you get 4 layers?
<azonenberg> bart416: ExpressPCB is what i've been using but i'm leaving
<azonenberg> Probably 4pcb 6 layer is what i'll end up using
<bart416> o_O
<bart416> That costs close to $200...
<bart416> My total budget for my entire project is less than that
<azonenberg> I'm not paying for it :P
<azonenberg> My advisor will be
<bart416> If you can get a good powerplane + ground plane it's a lot easier
<azonenberg> I need >1 power plane lol
<azonenberg> at least a 2.5 and an 1.2v, maybe a 3.3 as well
<azonenberg> plus ground
<azonenberg> then two to three signal layers
<azonenberg> it will end up being a six or eight layer board i think
<azonenberg> XC6SLX75 is the plan
<azonenberg> plus some sdram, flash, and other fun stuff
<azonenberg> and maybe an MCU for stuff i dont want to waste fpga gates on
<bart416> It's the same league
<bart416> Difference is, I'll have to do it at home with a toaster oven >_>
<azonenberg> will be having the board fabbed professionally but hopes to assemble it in a toaster oven here
<azonenberg> 256-FTBGA package lol
<bart416> oh that's easy :|
<azonenberg> Its 1mm pitch
<azonenberg> Shouldnt be nearly as bad as the 0.8 i was thinking of doing earlier
<bart416> AM3715CBP100 is what I'm doing >_>
<azonenberg> 515 FCBGA?
<azonenberg> Have fun
<azonenberg> whats the pitch on that monster
<bart416> Dunno
<bart416> Haven't dared to look yet
<azonenberg_lab> Time to have some fun
<azonenberg_lab> Tungsten probe making