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<hramrach>
user: you are missing root in bootargs
<hramrach>
so unless it is added after that won't work
<hramrach>
probably root=/dev/mmcblk0p2
<user>
hmm, I did try that
<user>
lemme double check ...
<user>
yeah, I did.
<user>
What about path to init
<user>
?
<hramrach>
you can omit that
<hramrach>
/init is the default
<user>
is that on rootfs?
<user>
because I have two partitions ...
<hramrach>
hmm, actually I have /sbin/init only
<hramrach>
so that might break your boot
<user>
so should I try something like init=/dev/mmcblk0p2/init ?
<hramrach>
no
<hramrach>
you should just remove that part
<hramrach>
the working path is /sbin/init and that works out of the bnox
<user>
but my init is at the base directory rather than /sbin. Could this be a problem?
<hramrach>
then it should work with that argument
<user>
okay, I'll try
<hramrach>
I mean the original init=/init
<rz2k>
iirc, if you dont set it, it will scan for /init and /sbin/init itself
<rz2k>
there are some logic behind
<user>
indeed, but I have two partitions, one fat and tother linux
<user>
will it check both?
<hramrach>
no
<hramrach>
only root
<rz2k>
set linux one with root
<rz2k>
root=dev_node
<user>
ok
<user>
I may try a third kernel then
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<hramrach>
user you may need to specify the mode used on the built-in display somewhere to get output
<user>
okay
<user>
how?
<user>
in the defconfig you mean?
<user>
oh wait
<hramrach>
also techn_ | user: I have that a13b tablet too.. a13_mid hwpack and linaro rootfs should work without problems..
<hramrach>
user: you specify screen size in script.bin or kernel arguments
<hramrach>
you don't have that in kernel arguments
<user>
I've just realised something, android_device_allwinner_common is for A10 tablets only
<user>
That's probably why this hasn't been working.
<user>
lol
<user>
Wish I had bought an A10 now. ... nm
<anunnaki>
my device says its a arm920t pxa27x processor. which is two different ones right? one belongs to ARM9TDMI and the other to Xscale. so how do i know what is the correct armv for my device? v4 or armv5?
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<libv>
rm: feel free to provide a name for this page that the main author and the only one bringing sanity to it agrees on
<libv>
tossing misinformation back in, or fucking up sanity and structure is not the solution.
<libv>
and it is plain childish.
<rm>
I'm afraid wiki's don't work like you think, libv
<libv>
rm: nonsense.
<libv>
rm: try barking up the right tree, and fixing the real issue.
<libv>
you dislike the name, so why not suggest a better name?
<libv>
why do this childish back and forth?
<libv>
rm: you might want to look at the age of that page, and realize that there was nothing else that got first-time users anywhere back then
<libv>
so it might be valid to rename the page now that there is a bit more useful things in there (although there is still a majority of noise and bullshit there)
<libv>
also, linux-bsp is the way to go for first timers
<rm>
I don't feel like suggesting names under a premise that you are the final authority to approve or disapprove of my ideas
<libv>
rm: as the person who contributed 90% of that page, i believe i am entitled to that
<libv>
rm: and there we go again.
<rm>
why don't you suggest some names then
<libv>
rm: well done.
<libv>
i do not know what else i should call it.
<rm>
okay: BuildingSdImageFromScratch
<libv>
nope
<rm>
see
<rm>
whatever I come up with, you will shoot down
<libv>
doesn't cover the load
<rm>
it's pointless
<rm>
because you FEEL ENTITLED
<libv>
and scares away too many people
<rm>
that's your problem right there :)
<libv>
sunxi-bsp is not scary
<libv>
or should not be
<rm>
wake the fuck up
<rm>
the common user has Windows 7
<libv>
?
<rm>
and a damn Windows Disk imager
<libv>
are you sure that you are with the fsf?
<rm>
and you suggest them to "git clone --recursive"
<user>
I don't have windows 7
<libv>
the average joe user i want to target is using grandmothers favourite distribution
<libv>
those are the people who will actually think about replacing the OS on their android device
<libv>
the bottom end of those people who think about that
<libv>
the page is SD specific though, that is true, apparently setting things up on nand is not worth documenting
<rm>
ROOTFS=your_rootfs.tar.gz
<rm>
here's this gem too
<rm>
you are just way too high in your ivory tower :)
<libv>
rm: the bsp stuff was not contributed by me
<rm>
"I got an A10 board I heard it is better than Raspberry Pi, now how do I run GNU/Linux on it? I have a Windows PC and a Macbook here."
<libv>
rm: i just now structured the page properly to be less confusing and clearly present the two options to users
<rm>
you just sound like a LinuxFromScratch.org developer, shaking a cane at other distros, that they shouldn't exist :)
<user>
you put linux on a cd and boot it
<rm>
except the real LFS developers won't be as silly
<libv>
rm: i am using an openSuSE on my main machine
<user>
then you can start working with your a10 board
<libv>
rm: i have worked for SuSE for a year or two, and freed ATI with it
<libv>
i can only document linaro as i have only worked with linaro
<rm>
if you mean that you marked the sunxi-bsp as being "the easy option", then nope
<libv>
i now structured things to be clearer for contributors
<rm>
it's nowhere near as easy enough as it should be
<libv>
then we should make sunxi-bsp better.
<rm>
it doesn't tell you where to get the root FS; and in the first place, getting an OS to run shouldn't involve checking stuff out of git and configuring/compiling
<libv>
rm: there is no other way for sunxi.
<libv>
every board needs a specific script.bin
<libv>
that is the root cause of what you are complaining about
<libv>
rm: then why are you not stating that up front?
<libv>
rm: and why are you then not listing known working devices?
<libv>
hence, misinformation.
<rm>
because most are working and I don't know any known non-working ones
<libv>
you can get the script.bin from android you know
<rm>
that's a hassle
<libv>
i will get you a non-working one immediately.
<rm>
which might be not needed in the first place
<libv>
not more than what you described.
<rm>
because as I said the included script.bin generally just works
<rm>
I could note that #6 is basically an optional step
<rm>
and I think it's already worded to imply that
<libv>
rm: i really really dislike what you are doing here.
<libv>
people will go through this, thinking this is easy, fail and never ever look back and just badmouth allwinner hw and linux-sunxi
<libv>
rm: please, at least state your script.bin strategy up front
<libv>
and then state "if this does not work, your script.bin might not be acceptable for your device, even though i personally think that this is unlikely"
<rm>
thanks, I will consider doing this
<libv>
i really rather make it slightly harder (but not harder than it needs to be) for people who want to try linux-sunxi, and have people complain about the complexity (as it is complex, and we have little way to hide that) and give up on their own merit, than to have them complain and walk away
<user>
*grumbles*
<libv>
rm: what we do need however, is a section to every device in our wiki, with some ready-made images
<rm>
also
<rm>
to look at the bigger picture
<rm>
isn't the whole script.bin mechanism being deprecated anyway
<libv>
rm: not anytime soon, sadly
<libv>
rm: i really doubt that we will be able to get rid of it for sun4i/sun5i
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<rm>
there's just too many devices, and there does not need to be an image per device
<libv>
we have too much other things to deal with
<user>
like getting android_device_allwinner_common to work on a13 devices :)
<rm>
what I could support is trying to designate a "safe-mode" script.bin, which is expected to generally work on all of them; but from what I can see the one I use is already like this
<rm>
someone said that it simply needs to use low-ish RAM and GPU frequencies, and by that, it works everywhere
<rm>
script.bin from older MK802 are like that
<rm>
or from Mele
<libv>
so, FirstSteps is very sd-card specific.
<libv>
also, it does not talk about hwpacks
<libv>
hwpack should be the easiest option
<rm>
image + hwpack
<libv>
image, to me is device specific
<libv>
you might get lucky, but it's not very scientific
<rm>
technically rootfs + hwpack, but manually making an image from that is unnecessary complex, especially if you don't have a *nix machine
<rm>
I mean take "some image", then overwrite device-specific bits of it, from a hwpack
<user>
what about rootfs + hwpack + sunxi-media-create.sh
<rm>
(u-boot + script.bin)
<libv>
user: yeah, this is indeed what needs to be documented
<libv>
and, firststeps should get an SD-Card specific name
<rm>
user:
<rm>
C:\Users\rm>sunxi-media-create.sh
<rm>
'sunxi-media-create.sh' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
<rm>
operable program or batch file.
<rm>
C:\Users\rm>ver
<rm>
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
<rm>
wat I do wrong
<rm>
afk :)
<libv>
rm: i actually would find it much much much more useful to provide an android sd creator
<user>
you forgot to put the linux cdrom into the drive
<user>
a replicant sd creator would be great.
<user>
;)
<rm>
berryboot is afaik pretty easy
<rm>
but requesting that people do something from within Android, is not the best way I think
<anunnaki>
hey guys, anyone know about xpa27x xScale family intels
<rm>
not everyone has a HDMI display
<rm>
and many get an A10 board to use headless
<anunnaki>
im trying to dig up info on getting linux on my device that has that SoC
<libv>
anunnaki: #arm-netbook
<libv>
anunnaki: and don't cross-post
<anunnaki>
ok
<libv>
rm: how many non-android devices with sunxi do you know?
<anunnaki>
libv, whats cross posting? posting same question in another channel?
<libv>
anunnaki: yes, which is highly annoying behaviour
<rm>
libv, I mean it is a common situation that you got an A10 board, don't have a suitable display for it, and just want to get a GNU/Linux on it to use via ssh
<rm>
mh
<rm>
s/common/not-infrequent/ :)
<libv>
rm: for gnu/linux distribution users, maybe
<libv>
rm: for others, not really
<rm>
sure
<rm>
and what we discuss is getting GNU/Linux to run
<libv>
no, gnu/linux on the host.
<rm>
I don't like Android and I have to disconnect my primary monitor on my main PC to boot an A10 device in Android
<rm>
hence I don't think asking people to do anything at all via android first, before getting an ssh-able GNU/Linux running on their A10
<rm>
is not the most convenient thing for everyone
<rm>
s/don't//
<libv>
so you reverted this again?
<libv>
really?
<libv>
oh my.
<libv>
mnemoc: ping
<libv>
mnemoc: how do we best deal with this, this is pointless and endless.
<libv>
rm: you do know that i have admin rights on the wiki, right?
<libv>
rm: i will now fully discount what you were stating in the last 50 minutes.
<libv>
this is just childish nonsense.
<rm>
I did this like an hour ago
<rm>
you just noticed
<libv>
rm: and in the meantime you have seen no reason to revert your change?
<libv>
rm: what are you, 12?
<rm>
I see no consensus forming in our discussion
<rm>
I could agree to renaming the page
<rm>
but see above for reasons I feel pointless to suggest names
<libv>
rm: no, i am really really considering using the big hammer here.
<libv>
even if this one gets resolved, there will be more such incidents
<rm>
if you consider yourself the author, surely you must have an idea how to name it better?
<libv>
pointless and endless.
<libv>
going round in circles, endlessly.
<rm>
btw I don't think you have actually read the part you are deleting
<libv>
rm: it does not fit with the content of this page.
<rm>
you constantly say it's "misinformation" but haven't bothered to point which part of the text you delete misinforms anyone, and about what
<rm>
oh, now it's something else then
<libv>
rm: and there is no such thing as one-image fits all
<rm>
where the text that you delete implies there is "one-image fits all"?
<rm>
where?
<libv>
sure, the naming is off, and sure there could be the hwpack
<libv>
"These should work on any Allwinner A10 based device"
<libv>
i do not agree.
<rm>
that is not on the FirstSteps page
<libv>
and we wouldn't have the extensive route, sunxi-bsp, or hwpacks if things "just work"
<libv>
the firststeps page should be renamed to something SD related, and the first steps page should get a section about hwpacks
<libv>
rm: this page was created oktober 16th.
<libv>
now, we have been through all of that
<libv>
and still you find it necessary to childishly keep your unrelated fluff in there
<rm>
please keep the "For users" section intact until what you propose above is implemented
<libv>
rm: i will first have a chat with mnemoc on how we deal with you.
<libv>
rm: and then we will decide what happens.
<rm>
yes I wanted to ask mnemoc about your arrogance yesterday too :)
<user>
and I wanted to ask about getting allwinner_common on the a13
<rm>
did not think you will keep at it, since you silently went away
<libv>
rm: sure, the blame is fully on my side on this one.
<rm>
of course it is
<libv>
rm: i have real life things to deal with too.
<rm>
I am not the one wrecking other people's contributions
<libv>
right.
<libv>
sure.
<rm>
out of FEELING ENTITLED
<libv>
rm: scroll back to the start of todays log.
<libv>
and read again.
<rm>
I had enough with you reading it once :)
<rm>
anything specific you want to point out?
<libv>
oh, and erm, the fact that i brought all this info together in a useful document, that was not a contribution, right?
<libv>
so who is wrecking whose contribution?
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<rm>
right, and I touched none of your text
<libv>
and who is more entitled to enforce one structure or another?
<libv>
no, you just prepended all of it.
<rm>
nor enforced structure on it
<rm>
yep
<rm>
because of numerous:
<rm>
"WTF guys, you expect everyone follow all of this just to get an OS running?"
<rm>
from real users
<rm>
to me directly and on mailing lists
<libv>
rm: again, the real solution is rename and adding of hwpacks.
<rm>
so do a real solution
<libv>
rm: plus, bootable os images is already listed on the fron tpage
<rm>
don't go stubbornly nuking my attempt to at least somehow improve the situation for time being
<libv>
rm: change the order there
<libv>
wtf happened on the front page.
<libv>
ah, tutorials was thrown in rather randomly
<rm>
ok so
<rm>
let's stop this and do something productive
<libv>
rm: haha
<rm>
you said a rename is in order, so do you have any ideas for new name?
<libv>
not yet.
<user>
hows about we discuss the changes here before we act?
<libv>
isn't this what i asked you 73 minutes ago btw?
<rm>
user, unfortunately libv doesn't believe in that
<libv>
you have seen me state "07:12 < libv> i do not know what else i should call it."
<rm>
asked me what
<libv>
rm: sure. i am alone in my ivory tower again there.
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<rm>
to invent a name? and I said I am not going to make up dozens of names so that you can have fun shooting down all of them
<user>
a new name for what?
<rm>
for the FirstSteps page
<user>
Well for a start it could have a space between First and Steps
<user>
That annoyed me whilst searching
<libv>
rm: i shot down one, because the FromScratch bit is scaring too many people away.
<libv>
you were just waiting to complain when you spewed it out
<libv>
you were not intending to have a meaningful discussion about naming
<rm>
that's what it is... you take all the components and then prepare a final result from scratch
<user>
but we haven't got anything better for first steps
<libv>
it is not like linuxfromscratch
<libv>
it is a rather overseeable amount of work
<libv>
and it is not an SD image either.
<libv>
heh, i will just call it SDCard.
<user>
`
<user>
whoops, dropped keyboard.
<gzamboni>
Good Morning. why do we have to change first steps ?? if you want you can name it "start up"
<libv>
gzamboni: it is sdcard specific
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<user>
I guess it should be the first step though, using an sdcard to boot, you don't want people blindly flashing things to their device.
<hramrach>
libv: btw there is one other page for building a SD card already
<libv>
it was a decent enough name when i created the page
<gzamboni>
setting up sdcard or making/setting up a sunxi botable sdcard
<gzamboni>
if the hardware have a nand card we can name the tuto the same but instead of sdcard, nand flash
<libv>
the wiki is surprisingly void of nand information
<gzamboni>
and inside you can explain the use of livesuit and how to make it using an existing prebuilt image booting up using the sdcard and making the nand bootable
<gzamboni>
libv thats true
<gzamboni>
people that are first using it dont even know what liveszuit is
<gzamboni>
i meant livesuit
<gzamboni>
libv i think there are some info but they are hardware specific, not sunxi general
<mnemoc>
libv: rm: what about splitting the page by goal and turn FirstSteps into a short introduction explaining what makes different one device from another and one boot method to another, and "disambiguation" page considering possible goals?
<libv>
heh, Bootable_SD_card is a howto that already exists, and it only deals with a fraction of what firststeps deals with.
<libv>
one big clusterfuck.
<mnemoc>
I wrote that one :<
<libv>
sure, but this wiki is just one big mess.
<libv>
we have too many idiots shitting in their own corners.
<mnemoc>
sure, and needs to be refactored.
<libv>
not by me.
<mnemoc>
agree on that
<mnemoc>
but regardless who does it, we need to agree in how do we want to structure it
<libv>
and i really have little hope for finding anyone capable of logic and structured thought who doesn't have much much better things to do
<mnemoc>
:(
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<libv>
we are really getting hit badly by the android-mindset, it's amazing how the average clue level has dropped in the last few years.
<mnemoc>
that's what I mean by goals. the firststeps for different people are different, because their goal is different.
<mnemoc>
but "all" are valid
<hramrach>
I get the feeling that we really need a lot of disambiguation pages because the most serious problem with the wiki is discoverability
<hramrach>
that's why we have 2+ copies of every page
<gzamboni>
i linked all orphaned pages already. Iam trying to keep it without orphaned pages.
<mnemoc>
there is hope! :)
<gzamboni>
i think the wiki is a very good source even if its a little messy
<gzamboni>
duplicated stuff should be merged if there is any additional data and then removed.
<gzamboni>
the thing is that there are some hardware specific stuff and sunxi general. so its ambiguous, hardware specific should only have, use the sunxi general and do this or that for whats specific
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<techn_>
user: I have a13_mid layer WIP
<techn_>
but I havent touched it long time..
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<user>
techn_, that's great, could you provide a link? :)