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<avsm> noddy: more code review on the website than the tls eh ;-)
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<avsm> dsheets: lucid ppa seems unreliable
<avsm> dsheets: maybe the rest are easier
<dsheets> avsm, unreliable??
<avsm> dsheets: transient debhelper dependenncy failures, but not always
<avsm> some of their build workers are broken i think
<dsheets> weird
<avsm> yeah
<dsheets> well, i made an image with a manual build anyway but it would be nice to have a ppa oh well
<avsm> dsheets: will look later, best not block on that so manual build is useful
<avsm> dsheets: rest of xen stuff workign?
<dsheets> yeah, xen stuff is fine now... just paying off the posix syscall binding debt
<avsm> heh
<dsheets> i'm not really sure why the values of macros are in the lem spec :-(
<avsm> values? shouldnt be there unless posix specifies them, surely
<dsheets> yeah... linux does some stupid stuff with O_RDONLY = 0 and so forth
<dsheets> but it's not clear that these issues shouldn't live at the syscall abstraction
<avsm> aye, abi vs posix there
<avsm> ok, the conduit resolver now just calculates a connection strategy
<avsm> and hands that off to the conduit_backend which executes it
<avsm> type endp = [
<avsm> | `TCP of Ipaddr.t * int (** ipaddr and dst port *)
<avsm> | `Vchan of string list (** xenstore path *)
<avsm> | `TLS of endp (** wrap in a TLS channel *)
<avsm> | `Unix_domain_socket of string (** unix file path *)
<avsm> | `Unknown of string (** failed resolution *)
<avsm> ] with sexp
<avsm> and you can hand in a rewrite trie to the resolver to make it not default to TCP
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<dsheets> thomasga, AltGr, i have some depopts on a package but i'd like to make one depopt "primary" and require the others as a dependency if the primary is present. Is this possible to express?
<AltGr> in short: no :/
<AltGr> well it used to be possible to _express_ but it wouldn't work
<dsheets> i want logical implication in my depopt expressions
<dsheets> but i guess we don't even have constraints any more?
<AltGr> we won't but actually that patch has been postponed just today
<AltGr> because adding the conflicts may make inconsistent existing installations
<AltGr> and it's not handled very well by opam 1.1
<dsheets> it's not impossible, though? it seems like opam could solve for the depopts and then check which clauses are satisfied and add any implied dependencies to the required installation target?
<AltGr> in the new encoding, that would be a formula like "a && !b" in the conflicts field -- but that's not allowed for solvability reasons
<AltGr> it's probably possible to encode that with a couple virtual packages, but I'm sure you don't want to
<dsheets> i'd rather have one package and a sort of fixpoint in the solver driver
<AltGr> with the new "features" field, you'd be able to use any formula to advertise availability of your feature
<AltGr> then pass the appropriate flag to your `./configure`
<AltGr> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, no fixpoint !
<dsheets> ok, will there be a way for opam users to specify feature names to enable then?
<AltGr> the core of it is that arbitrary constraints would make the problem too complex to solve
<AltGr> it's not in the spec yet, but features are still very experimental so that can be considered
<dsheets> i don't understand what is wrong with a monotonic inclusion?
<dsheets> (what i was calling implication + fixpoint before)
<dsheets> i just want to trigger more dependencies if they have a package installed
<AltGr> it's the issue we had before: we don't know wether this package will be installed before we actually solve the problem
<AltGr> putting the whole solver in a fixpoint loop is a _very bad_ idea :)
<dsheets> why? the install set only ever grows...?
<AltGr> well what about your implied dependency conflicts with a package that was in your solution before, for example ?
<dsheets> then the request is unsatisfiable
<dsheets> do you currently give up on the optional dep somehow???
<AltGr> doesn't have to, that package might have just been put there to statisfy an optimisation criteria
<AltGr> no, but they don't have any effect on the solver
<AltGr> there just there or not when you install
<dsheets> ok but this new implied dependency is added to the target install
<AltGr> but `opam install mypkg --enable-feature mypkg:feature` should be doable
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<dsheets> ok, i think that satisfies me and is better anyway
<AltGr> it would amount to adding the formula for the feature to the request
<dsheets> yes, i just need an easy way to give a list of depopts
<dsheets> while hiding exactly what those are
<AltGr> true, it's a bit weird to advertise "install xxx AND my package yyy" to have my nice yyy feature installed
<AltGr> (did it already, for ocp-browser IIRC)
<AltGr> so at the moment, I think the best I can propose would be to add a new mypkg++feat virtual package that depends on mypkg and its depopts
<dsheets> ehh, i'll just lift all the depopts into top-level deps and pretend like i require 10 packages instead of 3
<dsheets> slightly messy and magical and breaking package encapsulation but ok for now
<dsheets> will the features be tracked as install roots and warn on depopt removal?
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<avsm> dsheets: i've been doign the same in (e.g.) vchan too
<dsheets> does mirage expect devs to use a mirage switch to ensure unix-freeness?
<dsheets> or is it possible to develop portable mirage apps in a switch with unix contamination?
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<avsm> the tool passes -dontlink unix
<avsm> and the missing symbols reveal all
<avsm> we're actually never 'unix-free' since bigarray imposes a type-level dependency
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<avsm> alright, this Conduit thing is finally coming together
<avsm> amazing what a day of meeting-free coding can do
<avsm> sadly, I had to leave the country for that :-)
<cebka> avsm: btw, you have promised me to tell about your conversation with Theo ;)
<avsm> cebka: yes! had to hop over to belfast for the week, so email got buffered up and then i started coding ;-)
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<avsm> yomimono: TIL opw has a travel grant… feel like taking the stage for a bit of the xensummit talk?
* avsm still has to figure out how to make it from colorado to gotenberg to chicago in one piece
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<yomimono> avsm: I certainly could
<yomimono> avsm: the gotenberg piece of that does complicate things significantly :P
<avsm> yay!
<avsm> summer is a little complicated. need to make it back to Estes Park as well
<avsm> so I'm working on the basis that I'll probably miss something, so the more people available to speak coherently, the better :P
<avsm> djs55 should be in Chicago at any rate (right djs55?)
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<yomimono> avsm: I expect Lars will want me to be at the OPW panel anyway
<avsm> is there a program yet?
<avsm> yes, panel's on the second day
<yomimono> jinx!
<avsm> right at the end, that's a bit of a harsh slot
<yomimono> luckily it's not terribly inconvenient for me, but I do wonder how well-attended it'll be
<avsm> I think that should be main track, not a bof
<avsm> will mail lars
<yomimono> I think it is main-track and there's just a BoF scheduled alongside it?
* yomimono may be reading the schedule improperly
<avsm> oh yes, i think you're right, if the colors are anything to go by
<avsm> i would move one of the popular talks to the end though, and keep panel in middle
<avsm> xen on ARM status for example
<yomimono> say, do you know whether anyone is going to OSBridge in Portland next week?
<avsm> adam wick might be, from galois
<yomimono> cool. I got talked into going at the last minute
<avsm> looks like a fun schedule — lots of privacy talks I notice
<avsm> speaking there?
<yomimono> nope! Some friends are, though
<avsm> Ah yes, that's where I heard about it — O'Reilly has a stand and asked if any authors are showing up
* avsm is losing track of all these open source conferences now!
<yomimono> I kept getting confused between OSBridge and OSCon - I think OSCon is the one with the really big O'Reilly presence (maybe they are the major sponsor, in fact?). Same city but OSCon is a month later
<avsm> Yeah, OSCon is very commercial (and expensive)
<avsm> OSBridge seems to be more about the cultural end of things
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<osmano807> Is Mirage done strictly to run on a hypervisor or are there plans to run directly on the hardware?
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