DocScrutinizer05 changed the topic of #neo900 to: http://neo900.org | conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/ and http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900
illwieckz has joined #neo900
<Oksana> Another project from Germany: scooter handlebar, bicycle wheel, strap-on inline skates http://www.aeyo.com/en/
louisdk has joined #neo900
<Oksana> Did he just jump off the stairs on this scooter-bicycle-skates hybrid? http://www.executivecareer.net.au/news/big-front-wheeler-brings-bizarre-to-work-commute
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has quit [Changing host]
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
Humpelst1lzchen has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Humpelstilzchen has joined #neo900
Oksana has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
cybiko123 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
louisdk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has quit [Changing host]
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
Oksana has joined #neo900
Openbot has joined #neo900
<Openbot> Ayo Technology
Openbot has quit [Quit: Leaving]
sparetire has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
sparetire_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
Pali has joined #neo900
Pali has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sparetire has joined #neo900
vakkov has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
shapeshi1ter is now known as Shapeshifter
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
paulk-collins has joined #neo900
antiatom has joined #neo900
antiatom has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
paulk-collins has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
antiatom has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has quit [Changing host]
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
jonsger has joined #neo900
paulk-collins has joined #neo900
<DocScrutinizer05> hi antiatom! I'll answer some questions in here since they are relevant/interesting to all Neo900 fans
louisdk has joined #neo900
husanux6 has joined #neo900
husanux6 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
husanux9 has joined #neo900
husanux9 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
husanux0 has joined #neo900
husanux0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
husanux2 has joined #neo900
husanux2 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jonsger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
vakkov has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
vakkov has joined #neo900
modem has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Pali has joined #neo900
louisdk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<DocScrutinizer05> http://m2m.gemalto.com/tl_files/cinterion/downloads/datasheets/gemalto_datasheet_PLS8_web.pdf Dimension: 29 × 33 × 2,9 mm what the heck? 2.NINE??
<DocScrutinizer05> worst case this would mean our device gets yet another 0.7mm thicker. Plus we need to redesign the inter-board connection
<DocScrutinizer05> however it seems those press-release datasheets are not too stable
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe it's just a typo
<wpwrak> or maybe the old one has the wrong thickness :)
<wpwrak> PLS8 and PXS8 are 2.0 mm. interesting. so PLS8 was always a bit thicker
<DocScrutinizer05> nah, I think PLS8 was/is also 2.0mm, according to Nikolaus who already has a physical existing sample at hand
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess he would have noticed when his PLS8 sample would be 2.9mm
<wpwrak> the old dada shit of PLS8 sez 2.3 mm
<DocScrutinizer05> o.O
<wpwrak> 2.2 sounds kinda plausible for that
<wpwrak> (i mean "a measured 2.2")
<DocScrutinizer05> *sigh* so much fun with sourcing bleeding edge components
<wpwrak> maybe we can put it in a vise and make it a little thinner :)
<DocScrutinizer05> ohmy, at least it doesn't "kill" us
<DocScrutinizer05> another argument to use flex cable connection for inter-sandwich, rather than B2B conns
<DocScrutinizer05> or zebra strips
<DocScrutinizer05> yeah ;-P
<DocScrutinizer05> maybe those funny guys at Gemalto could at least have a publication date on their press-release pamphlets, and a RSS or email notification when a new version gets published???
<DocScrutinizer05> thanks to Nikolaus for spotting this "minor detail"
* DocScrutinizer05 sighs again
<wpwrak> yes, rather subtle
<DocScrutinizer05> pdf-diff, where are you?
<wpwrak> that's the sort of things you get if all the documentation if full of secrecy
<DocScrutinizer05> sucks
<DocScrutinizer05> on a nice sidenote: we have a prospect who wants to preorder a 50 devices :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> so, a completely normal day in Neo900 project ;-)
<bencoh> what is he gonna do with all this ?
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess they want to use them :-)
<bencoh> :]
<DocScrutinizer05> now, just in case: will we make _all_ Neo900 (spacerframes) a 0.8mm thicker, or will we produce a special LTE version of spacerframe?
<DocScrutinizer05> I guess having two versions that differ a 0.8mm and to have different inter-sandwich-conns and all that isn't worth it
<DocScrutinizer05> so in case it turms out the LTE is actually 2.9 mm, the UMTS versions will suffer from a "useless" 0.8mm increase in device height
<DocScrutinizer05> as if the thing wasn't massive enough already ;-) We could consider adding a 0.8mm steel sheet to the UMTS version and dell it as "ultra-heavy-duty"
<DocScrutinizer05> sell*
<DocScrutinizer05> time for coffee
<bencoh> being able to hit people with one's phone isnt a bug, it's a feature!
<DocScrutinizer05> hehe
<DocScrutinizer05> 0.8mm is not THAT much now
<DocScrutinizer05> a 0.8mm steel sheet though is quite a thing when it comes to ruggedness
<wpwrak> hmm, 3.7% thicker. it's not THAT much, indeed. but still.
<DocScrutinizer05> yep
<DocScrutinizer05> well, at least it creates convenient headroom to have the slot for 2nd SIM ;-)
<DocScrutinizer05> see, Gemalto engineers think ahead
<bencoh> *meh*
louisdk has joined #neo900
<DocScrutinizer05> and think of the *capacitors* we can cram into that new empty volume ;-D
* wpwrak wants a 70 Ah 12 V lead-acid battery there
<DocScrutinizer05> great minds think alike - I already wondered if a 0.8mm thick LiPo battery exists
<bencoh> wonderful, now you can hit people *and* blow it to their face
<Kero> The iPaq had a nice flat battery, though I doubt it was *that* thin.
paulk-collins has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
paulk-collins has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
dal has joined #neo900
dal is now known as dal2
vakkov has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
husanu6 has joined #neo900
husanu6 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
vakkov has joined #neo900
Pali has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Pali has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has quit [Changing host]
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
paulk-collins has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
paulk-collins has joined #neo900
sparetire_ has joined #neo900
Pali has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
louisdk has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jonsger has joined #neo900
cybiko123 has joined #neo900
cybiko123 is now known as Guest18194
Guest18194 has quit [Client Quit]
jonsger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
<Oksana> (on a nice sidenote: we have a prospect who wants to preorder a 50 devices) Great! (being able to hit people with one's phone isnt a bug, it's a feature!) Agree! But, it will make it more painful for me to hit my phone with my palm when software is getting slow ;-) Albeit, freshly installed from scratch Maemo 5 would be really fast. Great, will this 0.8mm thickness be a slot for storing bank card?
<DocScrutinizer05> hey, you're giving me ideas
<DocScrutinizer05> could indeed accommodate a fullsize smartcard
<DocScrutinizer05> hmmmmmm
<DocScrutinizer05> on UMTS devices you could insert it completely. On LTE devices we rotate the contacts 180 degrees and you insert chip first instead chip last, and card will block when insrted a maybe 2cm
<Oksana> Okay, do UMTS devices have some space for an electronic card-reader chip? /Who would want it, not sure... For Foxtel-television card, or for bank card - the content is still bound to be encrypted to the skies, right?/
<DocScrutinizer05> the "electronic card reader chip" is already implemented in current design: it's the connection from CPU to auxiliary "SIM"
<Oksana> Because the chips in financial cards are the same as those used in subscriber identity modules (SIMs) in mobile phones, programmed differently and embedded in a different piece of PVC... So it would not need a separate chip, just a set of contacts to read the card as if it was a third SIM?
<DocScrutinizer05> actually from NFC MCU to 2nd SIM
<DocScrutinizer05> if I'd really consider this fullsize smartcard stunt, it would replace the mini-SIM slot
<Wizzup> how will this fit at all?
<Oksana> Multiplexer would allow modem to connect to first SIM or second SIM, but it doesn't matter for "third SIM", unless we are using full-size SIM (which nobody does)
<Oksana> Okay, so you are considering it as "full-size SIM" instead of "second SIM slot"?
<DocScrutinizer05> so only two SIM/smartcards supported, no matter if mini or fullsize
<Oksana> Makes sense. Nobody would want the confusion of three SIMs
<DocScrutinizer05> yep
<DocScrutinizer05> Wizzup: we noticed that new LTE modem is a 0.7some mm higher than previously specified by Gemalto
<Wizzup> I read the discussion :)
<Oksana> Okay, how difficult would it be to replace "second SIM slot" with a "full-size SIM slot" on UMTS phones for curious customers?
<DocScrutinizer05> rework? impossible
<DocScrutinizer05> you however could use an adapter of course
<DocScrutinizer05> mini-SIM with attached flex cable and a fullsize tray
<Oksana> Not rework, just offer an option to customer: does (s)he want one or another?
<DocScrutinizer05> nah, we can't handle that
<Oksana> Okay, mini-SIM with attached flex cable and a fullsize tray...
<DocScrutinizer05> or you add a silly simple smartcard reader to hackerbus :-)
<DocScrutinizer05> or to USB
<Oksana> Okay, but I am thinking on what can fit in additional 0.8mm...
<Oksana> Not dangling outside...
<DocScrutinizer05> for the miniSIM&tray, the 'tray' could be as simple as a six tiny pogopins and a stop block for the fullsize SIM a few dozen mm further down the flex cable. the whole thing would be smaller than 15*25mm and very flat and completely flexible (except the miniSIM part)
<DocScrutinizer05> easily fits into your purse
<DocScrutinizer05> not really convenient to use, but very convenient to always have on you
<DocScrutinizer05> so *in case* you eventually want to read a CC
<DocScrutinizer05> with the newly available 0.8mm, I dunno what to do with them
<DocScrutinizer05> the fullsize smartcard idea is nifty but pretty complex to implement
paulk-collins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<DocScrutinizer05> >>chips in financial cards are the same as those used in ... SIMs ... embedded in a different piece of PVC<< The first SIMs were exactly same format and PVC as CC/bank-cards
<DocScrutinizer05> and yes, the chips are also rather similar I guess
louisdk has joined #neo900
<Oksana> How easy would it be to access the inside of the spacer? Would it be easier to cut a hole in spacer for card-in-card-out or to open the inside of the spacer each time to place a fullsize SIM inside it?
<DocScrutinizer05> check out USB card readers, they can read CC, SmartCards (for authentication), probably ID cards, and SIM with adapter
<DocScrutinizer05> the latter means disassembling the phone
<DocScrutinizer05> thus you want a rather huge slot to insert a fullsize smartcard
<DocScrutinizer05> which in turn might create mechanical and also usability (resp dirt) issues
<DocScrutinizer05> I'm already worried about those aspects of a tiny slot in spacerframe for mini-SIM slot-in tray
<DocScrutinizer05> then you would insert the SmartCard basically in touch with delicate SMT components on both sides of the card
<DocScrutinizer05> no space to ahve any sort of "wall" between card slot and components
<DocScrutinizer05> best case we could place some capton film over the PCBA
<DocScrutinizer05> that still leaves the problem of mechanical guidance for the SC when inserted, so it doesn't smash out some resistor or whatever tiny SMT component
<DocScrutinizer05> insert a slightly bent or even broken (spliss, is that even a word?) card and disaster warranted