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<paul_boddie> Continuing from the other day: discovered that the fped Debian package is very old indeed.
<paul_boddie> The problem is that the Vcs-Git field in debian/control refers to the actual code repository, not the packaging repository.
<paul_boddie> It needs to be something related to this:
<paul_boddie> However, the layout might still be confusing for Debian's infrastructure tools.
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<paul_boddie> Making a debian/watch file against would be challenging.
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<ceene> there's been no changes since 2017 that I can see
<ceene> DocScrutinizer51: if neo900 is now officially dead, have you thought about releasing current schematics/layout publicly? The risk of shady organizations copying all the work now doesn't seem like a problem anymore, but more like a remote possibility of having the hardware done
<sicelo> hey ceene :)
<ceene> hi, sicelo !
<ceene> long time no see!
<sicelo> good to see you
<ceene> i've been pretty busy with work and everything, and since I stopped using my n900 I kinda lost some interest in the whole environment
<sicelo> for your question above:
<sicelo> 05:17 < galiven_> Question for whenever: Any thoughts on putting up the things that neo900 managed for others to look at? I installed kicad when there was talk about it in this channel, but haven't had anything to look at (not that I would understand anything, CS not EE).
<sicelo> Day changed to 23 Jun 2019
<sicelo> 19:12 <+Joerg-Neo900> galiven_: look at git, everything there to just do a 'make swchem'
<sicelo> 19:12 <+Joerg-Neo900> schem*
<sicelo> what do you use now?
<ceene> android :(
<bencoh> :(
<sicelo> i guess that's where most of us (if not all) will end up. i'm still on N900, but yes its age is showing
<ceene> oh, so it's already been released?
<sicelo> it was always public ;)
<ceene> well, not completely
<ceene> when I helped with some footprints I was given access to the full repository
<ceene> but the public copy didn't contain any layout files
<sicelo> i recall .. no idea about that part then
<ceene> what do you keep using n900 for?
<bencoh> main phone here :)
<sicelo> it's my only phone
<bencoh> (and pretty much the only one as well on a daily basis)
<ceene> cool
<ceene> i grew increasingly frustrated about... well, about everything
<ceene> web browsing was very slow, sometimes not even possible. The best browser I found for my needs was midori running on a debian chroot
<bencoh> can't blame you for that :)
<ceene> email client was also severely lacking, it couldn't cope with the thousands of emails I have
<sicelo> browsing is very slow/bad, i agree, but i find that most of my browsing is certainly doable
<sicelo> email - always used mutt
<ceene> so I installed a kind of proxy on a server of mine which would download only new messages
<bencoh> in case you're not happy with android you might want to have a look at the droid4 and maemo-leste, by the way :)
<ceene> and I used a exchange server, so I managed to have push email instead of polling
<sicelo> yes @Leste .. i was actually about to ask you, bencoh - is modem working for you with mainline?
<ceene> did quite a few nice things, and was pretty fun to do, but in the end all of that was hindering my ability just read emails, or search them, or browsing the web, or whatever
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<bencoh> sicelo: I haven't tried yet
<ceene> bencoh: yes, I'm kinda following the news around maemo-leste, it really looks like could bring a new life to lots of devices
<sicelo> ok. i've been promised a droid4, so i'm very interestd in new developments.
<ceene> in the end, the final stroke was me not being able to bring yappari up to date to use whatsapp
<bencoh> sicelo: looks like it should be working (maybe with a few patches) :)
<ceene> don't even know what's the status of other non official clients now
<bencoh> ceene: right ... I think 3rd-party clients are pretty much all dead (apart from web-based ones)
<ceene> It seems that recently yowsup gets detected during registration resulting in an instant ban for your number right after registering with the code you receive by sms/voice. I'd strongly recommend to not attempt registration through yowsup until I look further into this. Follow the status of this here
<ceene> yep
<ceene> that's what happened to me all the time
<sicelo> i went to Telegram .. never looked back, ceene. after Yappari days, my father gave me his old S4, but shortly thereafter it lost IMEI while i was installing LineageOS, and then a year later it fell and screen broke.
<ceene> I used at least 5 or 6 phone numbers, lots of people on #maemo shared their phone number with me to help development, but I couldn't advance much further than that
<ceene> sicelo: I tinkered with the idea of porting Yappari's GUI to a Telegram library, of which there are a few, but people on TMO wasn't particularly interested, and my acquaintance don't use telegram either, so I myself wasn't particularly interested either, so...
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<ceene> I do have one group of friends which use telegram
<ceene> but we seldom talk
<ceene> but everyone else here in Spain uses only whatsapp
<sicelo> here too :)
<sicelo> i told them to SMS me
<ceene> that still costs money here
<ceene> nobody uses that anymore
<sicelo> bencoh: iirc pavel is able to use it on daily basis. did you try SFOS on it?
<ceene> gonna have lunch, cya!
<sicelo> \o
<bencoh> o/
<bencoh> sicelo: the thought of sfos on my droid4 didn't even cross my mind to be honest
<bencoh> and yeah, I heard pavel uses it as well, so I guess it should work
<bencoh> although I don't expect it last more than a day on battery with working modem (probably less), so I don't really understand how he does that
<bencoh> (unless power management was greatly enhanced in the last few months)
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<sicelo> if Nexus 5 didn't cost so much - seems to also be a really nice machine to get, besides the currently non-working audio, as well as no hwkbd
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<ceene> ok, so I'm renting a VPS per 3$/year
<ceene> now I can run znc and irssi+screen on a remote stupid little VPS
<ceene> 256MB of ram and 40GB of storage
<ceene> and this thing has debian preinstalled with that shit that is systemd, so now finally I'm learning a couple of things about systemd
<ceene> all for the marvellous price of $3/year
<sicelo> same specs as N900 :p
<ceene> more or less, yeah :D
<ceene> still seems ridiculous, $3 for a thing where I can run whatever I want
<ceene> still, I'm behind a NAT and I have a few ports assigned for me
<sicelo> yes it's amazing. what provider?
<ceene> wishosting
<ceene> the OpenVZ Mini
<ceene> the prices are very confusing, because OpenVZ Mini and OpenVZ Mini HK are yearly prices, the others are monthly prices
<ceene> ridiculous
<ceene> i think the openvz mini price is a mistake on wishosting's
<sicelo> hehe. so did they at least give you port 443?
<ceene> yep, the OpenVZ Mini HK price is 1.99$ monthly
<ceene> but the OpenVZ Mini is $2.99 yearly
<ceene> seems like an error LOL
<ceene> 443? no way! I have like 10 ports or so from 51100 and upwards
<ceene> ssh is on 51100
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<sicelo> ok
<ceene> dns is missing port numbers
<ceene> it'd be nice if would resolve to "IP, port 51120"
<ceene> but now that's mixing names, services, and lots of different layers, that would make lots of engineers cry
<Joerg-Neo900> I'd need somebody to "publish" the private git into public git without applying the filter list of "banned" filetypes
<ceene> if you have permission on both repos to do that it's pretty easy to do
<Joerg-Neo900> this aspect of Neo900 project went outside my realm of understanding end knowledge, being a complete git noob
<Joerg-Neo900> s/end/and/
<ceene> if you want to, I can guide you on what to do
<bencoh> ceene: /me cries indeed :)
<ceene> it's adding a remote to your repo and pushing into it, two or three lines tops
<Joerg-Neo900> sorry, nope. I did this too often already and I promised to never again try that
<ceene> lol
<bencoh> ceene: oh and, see "IN SRV" :)
<ceene> don't worry, if you need help or whatever with git, on doing this or anything else, just ask
<ceene> bencoh: i didn't know about that. Could it be used for placing a website on a random port, browsers would request in srv http and use provided port?
<bencoh> (unfortunately SRV support was never implemented in mozilla, and I doubt it is implemented in chrome either)
<ceene> oh :(
<Joerg-Neo900> I'm already getting headache trying to recall why each time I tried to do anything with our git I finally got headache
<bencoh> ceene: (yes, this bug is 20y old)
<Joerg-Neo900> I guess atk could do the git publishing within no time
<Joerg-Neo900> atk: if you got a spare 15 minutes eventually, could you please enable public access to the "hidden" layout git branches(?), or merge them into main public branch or whatever? I *guess* removing all patterns from blacklist and then doing a git push to private git should accomplish the task conveniently
<Joerg-Neo900> the automatism then should sync the complete private layout git over to the public git without filtering out footprints and board files
<Joerg-Neo900> or maybe it'S even simpler to allow public access to the private alternative gits?
<Joerg-Neo900> I'd prefer the latter since it doesn'T introduce artifacts into the whole "database"
<ceene> bencoh: the discussion is pretty interest, lots of thoughts about user experience. But it's a pity it didn't gain much traction, it could have been a nice thing to have
<bencoh> indeed
<Joerg-Neo900> then there's also another problem: I can't sustain paying bills for renting the infra from my private pocket like I did the last 18(+?) months
<ceene> can maemo take care of that? either monetary or using its current servers?
<Joerg-Neo900> so right now there's a real risk that Hetzner will shut down the servers any time
<ceene> and also, what would remain? a static web page and git repo?
<Joerg-Neo900> ceene: there's no manpower for consolidation
<Joerg-Neo900> and there are too many strictly private data on the server to hand it over to public maintenance as is
<ceene> if the project is completely dead, both because of financial reasons and lack of people interested in it, maybe a simple github page with the repos and static info would be enough so it's not completely lost
<ceene> the rest of private data, could live on a offline hard disk
<ceene> i don't think it's fair you continue paying for things, but also would be a shame to lose information because of that
<Joerg-Neo900> ~stuff
* infobot is stuffing George*
<Joerg-Neo900> meh
<ceene> hidden is 403 forbidden
<ceene> (sounds reasonable)
<Joerg-Neo900> the latter containing all the stuff that's copyright encoubered and thus must not get officially re-published, as well as other stuff only available to project members
<ceene> I wouldn't mind hosting some things on my university, but I can't guarantee a particular lifetime of the server
<ceene> last time I hosted a mirror of maemo's repository... that server got ditched without previous notice
<ceene> I would do it on a computer on my office now, so that wouldn't happen again
<Joerg-Neo900> mere migration is (always has been, so I got reference data) more work than can get accomplished with the manpower available
<dos1> Joerg-Neo900: should I mirror all the git repos (including the private ee one) on gitlab?
<Joerg-Neo900> also more expensive than a year of hosting, if you calculate no less than 5 bucks per hour of work
<Joerg-Neo900> dos1: sure, much appreciated
<ceene> what would the migration consist of?
<ceene> ain't that basically random files and git repos?
<Joerg-Neo900> ceene: there's much more than you might think, from a devuan mirror to email and whatnot
<ceene> i see
<ceene> i definitely hadn't thought of a devuan mirror nor email
<ceene> dunno, what about a full dump of the hard disk? at least you could keep it in raw form so it's not lost on the cloud
<Joerg-Neo900> I'm about to do yet another disk image to local HDD. Did one a few months ago iirc
<ceene> how much data is that?
<Joerg-Neo900> I gonna nuke a few expensive features like daily tape backup, then trsy to pay the ~50 bucks per month as long as I can, and when it goes south, then be it
<Joerg-Neo900> WTF, this is a tad too much actually
* Joerg-Neo900 goes nuking a few temporary files
<ceene> that's quite a lot, yes
<ceene> i don't even have that much space
<Joerg-Neo900> du -x /|sort -h|less
<ceene> /var/tmp could probably be deleted fully
<ceene> and I don't think log files would be of a much use
<Joerg-Neo900> also *backup* is usually candidate to rm
<ceene> also .cache
<ceene> also... devuan mirrors aren't really needed, are they?
<Joerg-Neo900> most duplicity stuff
<Joerg-Neo900> tape backup
<Joerg-Neo900> it's already sentenced to die
<ceene> devuan or tape backup?
<Joerg-Neo900> sorry I got no spare time today to clean up this mess
<Joerg-Neo900> tape backup
<ceene> ok
<Joerg-Neo900> the devuan mirror is still active
<ceene> don' worry, i didn't mean for you to do any work on this, even less so just right now
* Joerg-Neo900 urgently needs to clean out the logfile in there
<ceene> not very interesting that logfiles, nope
<dos1> mirrored:
<Joerg-Neo900> dos1: many thanks!
<ceene> great!
<Joerg-Neo900> ceene: not _really_ huge either, compared to other stuff
<Joerg-Neo900> HERE YOU ARE FOLKS!
<Joerg-Neo900> at least as far as all layouters evetually merged their own branches into master (terminology?)
<ceene> yep, that's the one I had!
<dos1> all the branches should be mirrored there
<Joerg-Neo900> dos1: you're the man! :-) So good you always were around, without you nothing of all this ever had happened
<ceene> now let's publish it as "LEAKED BETA IPHONE XXIII" and let's wait for three thousands different fabs to start selling copycats
<Joerg-Neo900> LOL
<dos1> yw :) would be a pity to get this lost or rotting in some depths of unused hard drives backups
* Joerg-Neo900 looks at ToDo list for today: send application to job center to get rent for next month. Apply for a sysop job. dang there was a 3rd item I forgot...
<ceene> 3rd item is get the job you apply for
<Joerg-Neo900> I wish I'd rather finalize that job I already applied for: hack devices related to Iridium
<Joerg-Neo900> would be magnitudes more fun than a 3rd level helpdesk "sysop" job for a german food company
<Joerg-Neo900> alas the food company *pays real money*, unlike all the fun jobs out there
<ceene> i'd rather have an 8hr not so fun job that i can forget about in 20 minutes than a fun job that ends up consuming your every minute of life
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<Joerg-Neo900> let's put it this way: if, instead of Neo900, I had started doing that job years ago, I could already consider early retirement since my financial situation would be more than just ok
<ceene> well, but you wouldn't have met me ;)
<paul_boddie> Nobody ever seems to do well out of doing the right thing, it would seem.
<ceene> i don't think that's good enough, but hey, you have to do with what you have
<Joerg-Neo900> that's probably true :-D
<ceene> i could work some place else and i'd be earning twice as much
<ceene> but then I wouldn't have the free time I have now
<Joerg-Neo900> now maybe I find a sponsor for the dang Neo900 infra and forhget about this, then another item off my todo list :-)
<ceene> maybe would want to save it?
<Joerg-Neo900> again, I can't archive my customer database etc on public servers
<Joerg-Neo900> even reading out that list for example, from a mysql mess of tables created by prestashop would be near to impossible unless the whole (prestashop) infra is running
<Joerg-Neo900> I either run this server (50 bucks / month) or I shut it down completely
<Joerg-Neo900> I'm so much tempted to do the latter. No more maintenance, what a delight
<ceene> i'd understand that
<ceene> at least the repos are available now on gitlab
<Joerg-Neo900> yep
<paul_boddie> Thanks for your efforts, Joerg! It annoys me that they aren't more widely appreciated.
<dos1> ee-full is now also publicly available from
<ceene> a short announcement could be posted on and TMO
<sicelo> and /topic
<sicelo> thanks Joerg-Neo900 & dos1
<Joerg-Neo900> dos1: you nasty wizard ;-)
<Joerg-Neo900> many thanks!
* Joerg-Neo900 remembered item #3 on todo list: invoice, since last contract had a 90 day cancellation period
<Joerg-Neo900> any of you joining cccamp2019?
<ceene> nop, i'll be at the beach!
<Joerg-Neo900> smart guy! :-) Last time I got fried there
<Joerg-Neo900> and I only hope this year doesn't do another all-time record month in August
<ceene> all germans come to spain to be fried here
<ceene> also british
<dos1> so far, this year you can go from central europe to spain to cool yourself down a bit :D
<Joerg-Neo900> I guess spanish costa de la luz would be a real refrehing place to be, compared to camp
<ceene> yesterday we had 41 degrees in Madrid
<Joerg-Neo900> or what dos1 said :-)
<Joerg-Neo900> ceene: well we get that today here
<ceene> so if you come to Spain make sure to go to the coast :)
<Joerg-Neo900> indeed
<Joerg-Neo900> nobody goes to extremadura for holiday ;-P
<ceene> lol
<dos1> it's 30-40 degrees for a while already here, which short breaks for some twenties
<dos1> s/which/with/
<ceene> first fortnight of august i'll be in Cadiz indeed
<Joerg-Neo900> hey! I feel temped to visit you :-)
<ceene> second fortnight, Cullera, in the Mediterranean
<Joerg-Neo900> only a 60km from my fav location
<ceene> which is?
<Joerg-Neo900> barbate and los canos
<Joerg-Neo900> (add "de Franco" and "de Mecca" as needed)
<ceene> oh, cool
<ceene> well, Barbate is not de Franco anymore, since we have something resembling a democracy
<clapont> hi everyone!
<Joerg-Neo900> yeah, strongly recommended when you're already 'there'
<ceene> we spend the holidays at La Barrosa
<ceene> every near Barbate
<Joerg-Neo900> I wish I could afford a one-week trip to meet you in Cadiz
<Joerg-Neo900> driving by Cadiz anyway on my way from airport (Jerez) to Barbate
<ceene> maybe next year, once you've closed shop and have a properly payed job
<Joerg-Neo900> yeah
<ceene> do you have family here?
<Joerg-Neo900> nope, just friends
<Joerg-Neo900> and the apartments are not expensive to hire
<Joerg-Neo900> not really anyway
<Joerg-Neo900> for costa de la luz I'd prolly be willing to pay even more
<Joerg-Neo900> or sleep on the street
<Joerg-Neo900> it's probably best place on earth to be, for me
<ceene> :D
<Joerg-Neo900> for a 8 weeks max
<ceene> you'll be the typical german that retires here :)
<Joerg-Neo900> maybe, good chances for that
<Joerg-Neo900> though my Spansih is... terrible
<Joerg-Neo900> just enough to order food in restaurant
<ceene> you'll learn, but it's true that the accent in Cadiz can be difficult to understand
<ceene> i don't even understand some of them myself!
* Joerg-Neo900 doesn't know any other Spanish
<Joerg-Neo900> ;-)
<ceene> lots of pisha and shosho
<Joerg-Neo900> and I don't understand news in TV either
<ceene> what about written Spanish?
<ceene> si hablo en espanol me entiendes?
<Joerg-Neo900> in a few years, babelfish becomes reality, then no problem anymore
<ceene> ok google, order a metric shitton of beer and pescaito frito for me and my friends
<Joerg-Neo900> no problemo entiendre espanol written
<Joerg-Neo900> I got a solid 50 years of knowledge of latin terms etc
<ceene> great
<Joerg-Neo900> escribado?
<ceene> escrito :)
<Joerg-Neo900> meh
<ceene> escribir is an irregular verb, though
<Joerg-Neo900> after a year, I probably can moan about my hangover ;-P
<Joerg-Neo900> quel cabeso malo
<ceene> :D
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<Joerg-Neo900> on loose4ly related sidenote: my homematic tells me outside Temperatur 35.80 °C
<Joerg-Neo900> in the shadown under a roof and a tree
<Joerg-Neo900> -n
<Joerg-Neo900> living room Temperatur 28.40 °
<Joerg-Neo900> too high, I gonna take action to fix that now
<ceene> quite hot indeed
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<ceene> so now I'm thinking what I could use this VPS for, in addition to running irc
<ceene> i've tested download and upload speeds and it's quite asymmetrical
<ceene> i've uploaded to it at 10MB/s, but downloading from it at less than 1MB/s
<ceene> the lack of well defined ports make it unusable for email or websites
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