adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.2 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Drup> just use a build system.
<mahem1> Yeah, I guess that would just be the best. Unfortunately, I gave up after my Cygwin and OCPwin build systems started conflicting...
<Drup> oasis should work under windows, there is a tutorial on ocaml.org
<mahem1> Hmmm, I'll take a look at that. Thanks.
<Algebr> If I want to give a value of a custom structure in C stub code to ocaml land, I can't use plain malloc, correct?
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<flux> you can, but then you obviously need to memory manage it yourself
<flux> algebr`, and then there is this option that disables that ability
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<flux> algebr`, of course you then cannot also mutate the structure in ocaml, because that data would then also become non-gc'd
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<flux> algebr`, oh, and particular, if that data then refers to OCaml heap, the GC will collect it, because to it it looks like data that's not used, thus your structure would then point to invalid memory
<Algebr> wait, I think I missed something earlier
<Algebr> How do I give oasis the equivalent of -g on the command line
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<Leonidas> schoppenhauer: isn't extlib dead and superceded by batteries?
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<companion_cube> I don't think it's really dead, but indeed it's but a subset of batteries
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<flux> if one is writing a library, extlib might sound like a nicer, smaller dependency
<flux> at least if one has the version that doesn't collide with camomile :), or whatwasit
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<tibor> Hi
<companion_cube> hi
<tibor> May I have a technical question about OCaml here?
<companion_cube> sure, go on
<flux> tibor, certainly :)
<Leonidas> I thought this channel was just for philosophical questions about OCaml.
<companion_cube> OCaml is only for objective philosophers of the family of camelides
<companion_cube> ;)
<tibor> I have a variant type which contains another variant type and I would like to create an element which type is the first variant type, but inside has the second variant type. How can I do this?
<tibor> OK
<tibor> :(
<companion_cube> could you give more details about your types?
<companion_cube> type a = A type b = B of a ?
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<tibor> type A = B1 of b1 | B2 of b2;;
<tibor> type B1 = C1 of c1 list;;
<flux> type names are lowercase
<tibor> type B1 = C1 of c1 list | C2 of c2;;
<companion_cube> ok, so a contains b1 as a sub-case, fine
<tibor> ok :( I'm sorry, I'm a begginer :(
<companion_cube> no problem
<tibor> type a = B1 of b1 | B2 of b2;;
<companion_cube> you might want to use a toplevel to test things quickly, if you don't already
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<tibor> Yes :)
<companion_cube> good!
<flux> tibor, once you get the types working, you construct them like: B1 (C1 [])
<flux> truth to be told I would expect any ocaml tutorial to explain this.. :)
<tibor> thank you :( I'm sorry for this question :(
<tibor> thank you :)
<companion_cube> what do you use to learn?
<companion_cube> (I mean: a book, ocaml.org...)
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<tibor> Real World OCaml
<tibor> I'm sorry for my delayed reply
<tibor> Can you suggest me something better?
<flux> I haven't read it, but I understand it's a fine book
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<companion_cube> no, it's good, I think
<tibor> Thank you
<tibor> Do you have some good tips for debugging? (Tools for tracing profiling and ...)
<companion_cube> mosly, for me, enabling backtraces and using print statements
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<tibor> :) OK :) Thank you
<Leonidas> yes, especially profiling is kinda meh
<Leonidas> debugging can be neat, because the debugger can step back in time
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<gasche> for time profiling I use gprof or (linux) perf, and it has served me well
<gasche> for memory-profiling there is ocp-memprof which seems nice (but I have never done memory profiling myself)
<gasche> (I've used the "poor man profiler" trick for profiling as well, and it worked nicely as well, giving stack traces for the hot spots)
<Leonidas> I was never able to get gprof to display me the correct timing information
<companion_cube> same for me
<companion_cube> and I never got anything but assembly out of perf :/
<companion_cube> (I probably use it wrong)
<companion_cube> oh, hi gasche
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<tibor> Thank you all for the advice
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<Drup> perf works just fine, you need to use a switch with frame pointers
<Drup> well, not need, but it gives the graph, like gprof does
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<ananas__> Hi! A question for the OASIS users: is there a way to tell oasis to use "ocamlfind ocamlc -config" instead of "ocamlc -config" to generate its setup.data ? I use a certain OCAMLFIND_TOOLCHAIN.
<companion_cube> Drup: interesting
<companion_cube> is there any doc/blog post... about using perf, in particular for OCaml ?
<Drup> any perf manual ?
<Drup> there is pretty much nothing ocaml specific
<Drup> except the weird naming convention maybe, but you can get it pretty quickly
<Drup> "perf record -- ..."
<Drup> "perf report"
<Drup> IIRC
<companion_cube> ok, then the only thing to know is to use frame pointers :)
<Drup> if you want the graph
<Drup> if you don't care and just want the toplevel call, then you don't need it
<def`> --call-graph=dwarf
<def`> to get a graph with normal compiler and debug symbols
<Drup> def`: that's equally reliable ?
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<def`> Drup: in my experience, yes (provided recent kernel & compiler)
<Drup> (if yes, why were frame pointers introduced in ocaml to begin with ?)
<def`> (I can't answer)
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<flux> maybe perf wasn't always able to do that?
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<flux> a perf presentation from 2010 says "needs -fno-omit-frame-pointer"
<Drup> flux: that's for the compiler yeah, there are opam switches with the option enabled
<flux> it seems DWARF unwind support for perf tools was implemented at Jan 2014
<companion_cube> oh wow, nice, def`'s option works
<def`> tada!
<companion_cube> in the sense that I can unfold the function calls
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<Drup> I don't remember if there is a dot output to have a real graph
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<Enjolras> this backlog is the best read of the month ! I didn't know that you could get a callgraph with perf for ocaml, only the statistical call list
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<companion_cube> yeah, it's nice
<companion_cube> profiling ++
<Drup> I used that a lot (in combination with christophe's benchmark package) to optimize lilis, it's nice, yeah
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<rgrinberg1> companion_cube: hi
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<schoppenhauer> are bigarrays always initialized with zeroes?
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<schoppenhauer> I mean the ones created with Array1.create
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<gasche> 14:43 < Drup> (if yes, why were frame pointers introduced in ocaml to begin with ?)
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<gasche> I'd like to point out that frame pointers were not introduced in OCaml upstream
<gasche> see also https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/198 as to why frame pointers are maybe not a good fit for OCaml
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<Drup> gasche: hum, it's not in a disable-by-default option ?
<Drup> yes, it is, the option is --with-frame-pointers
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<Drup> so it's disabled by default, but it's very much upstream
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<flux> I suppose nobody's used ocurl for streaming content..
<flux> actually the problem seems to lie in my gtk--curl interaction :)
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<flux> nope.. my callback doesn't seem to get called when the connection closes on error?
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<maurer> Does anyone know how expensive caml_aquire_runtime and release are?
<maurer> I'm binding an OCaml library as a C library, and I'm wondering whether it makes sense to just put those around my exported C functions by default, or if I should have two versions, one which auto acquires/releases, and one which does not do either in case someone wants to use a dedicated call thread
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<mrvn> maurer: put it around anything that blocks
<mrvn> or may block
<mrvn> or takes time
<mrvn> The call itself is cheap but it would be pointless to use it when the function takes no time.
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<maurer> mrvn: Wrong direction - I've got a C-main, and sometimes it calls OCaml
<maurer> mrvn: So these functions have to be called, it's just a matter of whether small blocks or big blocks of holding the lock will be used
<mrvn> then you must aquire it
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<mrvn> you may only access ocaml values or call ocaml code while holding the lock
<maurer> Yes, I'm wondering how bad of a performance impact writing porcelain code so that users don't have to manage the lock would be
<mrvn> but if you aren't doing multithreading you can hold it forever.
<maurer> The very first application I am building wants to multithread
<maurer> :P
<maurer> But it's a question of whether I should make users do "acquire, libfunc1, libfunc2, release"
<maurer> or if I should put acquire/release into libfunc1 and libfunc2 so that the users will do "libfunc1, libfunc2" which has a suprious release/acquire, but is easier for users to get right and simpler to write
<maurer> (the users of this code don't know it's OCaml, so any rules I have about how to use the code have to be explained to them)
<mrvn> I would put it in there. you can't know what users will do and without the lock it will crash and burn.
<maurer> OK. If release/acquire were expensive, then putting it in there would seem pretty bad
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<maurer> but I'll put it in there
<mrvn> it just toggles a pthread mutex. Not too cheap but not to expensive either.
<ananas__> Sorry for bothering you with a stupid question, but how should I read the standard output/error of a command ? Sys.command only returns its code.
<struktured> ananas__: here's a solution, but you need to replace the byte buffer with something you have in your stack: https://github.com/struktured/ocaml-shell-support/blob/master/lib/shell.ml#L24-L54
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<mrvn> or Unix.create_process with some pipes
<ygrek> ananas__, if you only use stdlib - see Unix.open_process, otherwise just use Lwt_unix - will be much easier
<ananas__> It's intended to be in an ocamlbuild plugin.
<ananas__> The open_process_in is said to call /bin/sh. Will it run on Windows ?
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