adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml MOOC http://1149.fr/ocaml-mooc | OCaml 4.02.3 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
<zozozo> it's useful whenever you want to build anything, really
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<orbifx> zozozo: yeah.. coming to learn this the hard way :P
<orbifx> to my defense i wanted a really minimal installation
<zozozo> just install it now, :p
<orbifx> but paying a price now
<orbifx> brb
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<zozozo> base-devel really has useful things, such as make, and it's not that big
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<zozozo> orbifx: base-devel really has useful things (such as make)and it's not that big
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<orbifx> I hd most of the packages, but the few that I was missing (3MiB download) ended up taking 150 M of hdd.
<zozozo> really ?!
<orbifx> There is no regard for sizes these days
<zozozo> well, depends with what you compare
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<orbifx> Maybe it included the reinstalls in the calculation.
<zozozo> sadly, I still have a windows installed on my home computer (for games), and it takes at least 50 Go of space on my ssd, :(
<orbifx> Lol...
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<zozozo> orbifx: pacman usually tells you the net space gained/lost after installation of new packages
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<zozozo> orbifx: pacman usually tells you the net space gained/lost after installation of new packages
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<lewis1711> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/13d497a575348079c4c1 why is there a syntax error on line 12? I cannot for the life of me see it
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<lewis1711> [label_expr_list] or [expr level .] expected after "{" (in [expr])
<orbifx> zozozo: can you repeat the last?
<zozozo> orbifx: pacman usually tells you the net space gained/lost after installation of new packages
<zozozo> lewis1711: I think you're missing a [ int he definition of the 'table' field
<zozozo> of the 'create' function
<lewis1711> zozozo, ah! thanks that was driving me nuts
<orbifx> Well that's worse than. Anyway going to leave it with the remark that there is no regard for space. Too much state!
<orbifx> And on that bombshell, gnight
<zozozo> good night
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<lewis1711> I am creating a function that takes an option list and flattens it out into a list. I don't get why it's not in core.
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<lewis1711> I mean as far as I can tell, an option is just a list that is either empty or has one member
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<junsli> I recently started reading ocaml compiler source, and looked at some junior-job bugs. I sometimes find Mantis, the bug report platform, is confusing. Is this a correct place to ask questions about Mantis?
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<apache2_> is it possible to do negated matches in pattern matching?
<apache2_> I have a special case for 0
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<apache2_> I could do a match on '\x01' .. '\xff' since I'm dealing with 8 bit data, but it seems nicer to avoid int_of_char if I can?
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<pierpa`> apache2_: just put your 0 case first ?
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<apache2_> I'm matching on two values :(
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<kevinch> Hi, I wanted to get some OCaml shirts printed. Does anyone know who I could talk to about that? example: http://cl.ly/image/1e1A2S3L3o0n/content
<kevinch> dmbaturin: ah, gotcha. thanks!
<dmbaturin> kevinch: On cafepress at least it's possible to "sell" stuff at the cost of the medium. It would be nice to have an ocaml store setup this way.
<kevinch> dmbaturin: I looked at cafepress and they seemed expensive for one-offs ($20-30 per shirt)
<kevinch> was thinking of teespring for the initial run, to keep the price lower (~US$14)
<kevinch> and we can donate any profits to EFF or something
<dmbaturin> Well, if there is something cheaper, that's even better.
<dmbaturin> I wear very plain nondescript stuff so I don't know much about t-shirt printing industry. :)
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<kevinch> haha, hopefully the OCaml camel is nondescript enough for you! :P
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<thizanne> companion_cube: do you have, in your code, examples of phantom object types which could not be replaced by polymorphic variants ?
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<^elyse^> Is it possible to "expand" a polymorphic variant into another one?
<flux> (`foo :> [`foo | `bar]) works?
<^elyse^> E.g. type t = [ `A | `B ]; type u = [ t... | `C ] (* same as: type u = [ `A | `B | `C ] *)
<dsheets> ^elyse^, type u = [ t | `C ]
<^elyse^> dsheets: very nice. :o I'll try that.
<flux> I suppose you know also about the # syntax for variants?
<^elyse^> dsheets: It works! :D
<^elyse^> flux: no, I don't.
<flux> ^elyse^, well, prepare to be ahmazed! match a with #t as x -> ..
<^elyse^> What does that do?
<flux> #t is a pattern that matches values of polymorphic variant type t
<flux> I suppose though it's just a shortcut for (x : t) , hmm :-)
<^elyse^> flux: oh interesting
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<dsheets> flux, i think (x : t) as a pattern will fix the type of the match argument to t instead of accepting the subset of polymorphic variant tags found in t (which may be smaller than the type of the match argument)
<def`> yep, for objects and variants, #t "reopens" the type if I remember well (not 100% sure)
<flux> dsheets, cool, nice to know that :). I suppose I would find out if I wound up actually needing it..
<^elyse^> found some nice H–M implementation: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs312/2005sp/lectures/lec22.asp and http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs312/2005sp/lectures/rec22.asp and I wanna rewrite it in OCaml :)
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<companion_cube> thizanne: I have phantom object types whose fields are poly variants
<companion_cube> it's a matter of product vs. sum
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<^elyse^> I wish copy&paste worked well with utop.
<^elyse^> utop leaves lots of trailing whitespace
<companion_cube> yeah
<^elyse^> really like the syntax highlighting though
<def`> you have syntax highlighting?
<def`> (trailing whitespaces should be fixed in utop... :P)
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<^elyse^> I wanna get rid of the separators too. Not sure if that can be configured.
<def`> ^elyse^: interesting, I don't have that
<^elyse^> I also have syntax highlighting in Z shell. :3
<^elyse^> btw, several modules have a "compare" function, that things like Map.Make and Set.Make are interested in
<^elyse^> is there something similar for equality? actually, wondering how Map.S.t and Set.S.t can be compared for equality. do maps and sets have to normalise themselves or is there some way to overload the = operator?
<companion_cube> Set.S does provide an equal function
<companion_cube> same for Map.S, I think
<companion_cube> how comes you have syntax highlighting, though?
<^elyse^> companion_cube: oh, ok, so I have to use that instead of = when comparing them?
<^elyse^> companion_cube: no ia
<^elyse^> no idea*
<companion_cube> yeah
<^elyse^> companion_cube: ok. :( I don't really like = in OCaml.
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<companion_cube> https://github.com/diml/utop/blob/master/utoprc-dark oh wow, this is for utop
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<^elyse^> Maybe I will refrain from using (=) completely except in implementations of "equal" functions
<companion_cube> that's what I do, mostly
* ^elyse^ likes that.
<companion_cube> you might notice that combinators are useful for making type-specific equality functions
<companion_cube> e.g. in containers :>
<^elyse^> not sure I want to store type information in AST
<companion_cube> for your language?
<^elyse^> rather, the implementation of it
<^elyse^> typed ASTs may facilitate optimisations and code generation, though
<companion_cube> yeah
<^elyse^> I only have to store types of expressions that refer to variables. Other expressions' types can be trivially computed
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<^elyse^> guess I'll just leave it out for now. it's not strictly needed
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<^elyse^> is there some stupid syntax error here that I'm missing? type t = { parent : t option; names : Ast.name String_map.t }
<^elyse^>
<Drup> nope
<^elyse^> it says there's a syntax error on line 9
<^elyse^> but I really don't see it
<zozozo> ^elyse^: the actual synatx error might be somewhere else in the code
<^elyse^> zozozo: added the whole file
<zozozo> no syntax error when I try to compile, only the obvious missing values for 'insert' and 'derive'
<zozozo> (with an ast.ml which only contains type name = string)
<^elyse^> Oh, I'm super dumb.
<^elyse^> The error message says the syntax error is in ast.ml, not in rename.ml. :')
<zozozo> :p
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<flux> ^elyse^, editor integration has its benefits.. :)
<^elyse^> and its downside
<flux> ..like what?
<^elyse^> the Emacs OCaml mode was totally FUBAR, as is invoking build tools from Vim
<^elyse^> other editors are not usable
<^elyse^> Emacs has a good build tool invoker but a bad OCaml mode. Vim has a good OCaml mode but a bad build tool invoker. :v
<thizanne> i'm not willing to start another useless editor war, but in which way is the emacs ocaml mode less good than the vim one ?
<^elyse^> The Vim OCaml plugin also has quite broken indentation, but it's possible to work with at least
<groovy2shoes> :set ai ci
<flux> I seriously doubt that wouldn't work ok on my home emacs.. but I can agree that some environments can produce wacky results, and there are also some indentation bugs in the tuarerg-mode
<^elyse^> haskell-mode has similar issues, but in fact so bad that I use text-mode for Haskell
<Drup> ^elyse^: just use ocp-indent, problem solved
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<Drup> the emacs ocaml mode is only relevant for syntax highlighting, which is done decently.
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<edwin> are there any other emacs packages that are useful for ocaml? (I use merlin, ocp-indent, tuareg and utop: https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/blob/master/layers/%2Blang/ocaml/packages.el)
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<ianhedoesit> is there any way to do something like `let foo = function [] | [x] | [x;y] as l -> l`?
<thizanne> ianhedoesit: replace [x] and [x;y] by [_] and [_; _]
<zozozo> ianhedoesit: let f = function ([] as l) | ([_] as l) | ([_; _] as l) -> l | _ -> assert false;; works
<ianhedoesit> hm, yeah, I was just trying that.
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<ianhedoesit> I guess I was just really hung up on the separate identifiers for some reason.
<ianhedoesit> thank you both.
<apache2_> what's the easiest way to get the binary representation of a Num ?
<flux> Marshal.to_string :)
<apache2_> thanks!
<apache2_> btw, while on the topic of emacs, infinity0 did this, quite nice: https://github.com/infinity0/l33tutils/commit/16fb90f6007d7b4ed4d048f0218b040ce712a9b1
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<Drup> flux: ಠ_ಠ
<flux> drup, fine, give the better answer then!
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<apache2_> :D
<__mic> hi, in "opam list" some libraries are underlined. What does it mean?
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<zozozo> __mic: they are the package you have explicitly installed
<__mic> thanks
<Drup> flux: my issue is more that it's not really correct ...
<flux> drup, Marshal.to_string doesn't work on Nums?
<Drup> did you look at the output ?
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<flux> nope. it's binary, right?
<Drup> not exactly ...
<flux> it's text then?-)
<apache2_> it's ok guys
<apache2_> I got it
<Drup> it's an encoding of the memory representation in chars.
<flux> it's also reversible, so from that encoding one can decode a Num. I would certainly call it a binary representation of a Num.
<Drup> flux: including the tag (Num is a sum type) and the weird num things
<apache2_> I'm doing binary search until Num.num_of_string "0x[test input]" gives me the same Num
<Drup> flux: I'm pretty sure apache2_ wanted something in 0b...
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<Drup> apache2_: you would be better doing the thing by hand
<Drup> (you know, divide by 2 ...)
<Drup> it would be much faster
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<apache2_> but it seems pretty stupid that num_of_int can parse 0x and 0b syntax, but not produce it
<apache2_> Drup: divide by two what?
<Drup> the number.
<edwin> Big_int.extract_big_int and Big_int.num_digits_big_int might be useful as well if you're only dealing with integers and not ratios
<apache2_> what does that give me?
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<Drup> apache2_: you don't know how to compute the representation of a number into a base by hand ? :)
<Drup> then do it, it's a decent exercise
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<apache2_> this works, and if it's too slow, I can include a c stub that calls glibc helper functions
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<apache2_> and no, I'm an idiot, I don't know anything :)
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<BitPuffin> it's worth knowing
<apache2_> :(
<BitPuffin> I mean it's not fatal to not know :P
<apache2_> well now I know that the two of you know how to do it
<BitPuffin> but doing it gives you good understanding about how the notation works :)
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<apache2_> I'd beg to differ
<BitPuffin> why?
<apache2_> on the contrary, you need to understand how it works before you can write the implementation
<BitPuffin> yeah but knowing how to write the implementation gives you insight
<Drup> apache2_: lack of knowledge is not really a sign of idiocy
<apache2_> BitPuffin: seems like I'm stuck then
<apache2_> If I neither know how to write the implementation nor know how it works
<octachron> apache2_, it is a fixed point iteration: trying to make an implementation improve your understanding which then improve your implementation ...
<apache2_> only if it turns out successful
<BitPuffin> Wait this is for how to parse a number of arbitrary base right?
<apache2_> otherwise I might be implementing this till the end of term and be none the wiser (well, I would probably know more quirks of the ocaml standard library)
<Drup> you do realized that, with wikipedia, you would have already implemented the algorithm if you stoped arguing ? :D
<apache2_> :D
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<Drup> BitPuffin: no, it's for printing it
<apache2_> I already implemented it using binary search and num_of_string, so this is just debate for the sake of the debate :)
<Drup> that's a terrible implementation
<BitPuffin> Drup: ah, well both require similar knowledge
<Drup> yes
<apache2_> Drup: perhaps it should be included in the standard library then :)
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<octachron> apache2_, you learn a lot with (controlled) failures
<apache2_> BitPuffin: I did the encoding part though!
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<infinity0> apache2_: ah glad you noticed :) yes feel free to share it around, if people like it i can ask merlin upstream to merge it
<infinity0> and give feedback etc
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<rks`> infinity0: what are you talking about?
<infinity0> automatically shows the type of the expression the cursor is at, so you don't need to type ctrl-t all the time (in emacs)
<rks`> ok
<rks`> yeah I'd be more than happy not to merge that
<rks`> but I might have a look at the "auto-close" bit
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<rks`> but it's nice that you have such a thing :)
<infinity0> for the auto-close part i have to monkey-patch merlin's functions, so yes it would be useful if you added that in
<infinity0> also i find display-buffer-alist useful so the popup comes in at a predictable place, rather than overwriting a seemingly random previous buffer
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<Drup> rks`: as long as you don't make it the default ... :p
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<edwin> would it be possible to perform that display when idle like global-semantic-idle-summary-mode?
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<infinity0> edwin: you mean like, after you stop doing stuff for 2 seconds? i would guess it's possible in theory yes
<infinity0> maybe i'll find it annoying enough after actually writing some ocaml, that i will implement that
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<Drup> infinity0: might issue as more to do with the fact that it could remove some other useful messages from the minibar
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<Drup> beh, my*
<Drup> has*
<infinity0> yeah makes sense
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<Sai22> hello
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<edwin> infinity0: yeah, was thinking about the idle timer just so it doesn't slow down actual typing/other editing operations
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<infinity0> what's the recommended library for implementing monads with
<companion_cube> it's hard to work on generic monads, but different libraries provide different monadic interfaces (e.g. Lwt)
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<infinity0> ah ok... so i guess i will just fake that myself.. what's the standard naming for it? flatmap or bind or something?
<companion_cube> depends, but the infix operator is >>=
<companion_cube> what monad do you need?
<infinity0> i'm making my own monad that represents a probability distribution, but was hoping to make it "fit the standard"
<infinity0> (useful for simulating games of chance, where you have various nextState functions (state -> ProbDist<state>)
<infinity0> i guess if someone has already implemented that, it would be awesome... i kinda assumed not because it's not a very common generic programming thing
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<companion_cube> I don't know any implem of this
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<edwin> this is closest I know of for probability distributions, it depends on delimcc though http://okmij.org/ftp/kakuritu/#implementation
<edwin> you'd probably want to replace delimcc with your monad there right?
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<infinity0> not sure, not familiar with delimcc. i'll take a look though, thanks
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<infinity0> in probM.ml (link above), this line:
<infinity0> let dist (choices : 'a dist) : 'a =
<infinity0> what does the "dist" in "'a dist" refer to?
<Drup> it's a type
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<python476> when I see ocaml logo https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUMnflJWEAIUrus.png all that it evokes is : slow and bumpy
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<infinity0> Drup: but where's it defined?
<infinity0> oh right found it
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<infinity0> is "S ../caml-shift" supposed to work
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<infinity0> in .merlin that is... or do i need to mess around with REC
<infinity0> opam has a "delimcc" module but it looks like it doesn't actually help merlin, somehow
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<infinity0> oh, i just need to add "B ../caml-shift" as well.. still not sure what's up with the opam package though
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<infinity0> oh, PKG, duh >.<
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<voldial> I am trying to add a test (for inotify.h) to unison so this https://bpaste.net/show/576b51bce371 (from /var/tmp/portage/net-misc/unison-2.48.3/work/unison-2.48.3/fsmonitor/linux/inotify_stubs.c) can be done in a more general way (eg work on musl)... but the build system does not use ./configure as far as I can tell. What's the right way to run this stub: https://bpaste.net/show/1e6a1340345a ?
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<adrien> voldial: what's the build system? bare make?
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<voldial> adrien: yes. so far I am modifying the makefile to do something like: https://bpaste.net/show/202a3d91353b but it's not right yet
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<voldial> I need to mod the CFLAGS for the main unison build iff that stub compiles
<adrien> absolutely no idea how to do that, sorry
<adrien> I'm not sure I'd try to do it through a rule however
<adrien> more likely
<adrien> CFLAGS := $(shell ... && echo -I..../inotify) $(CFLAGS)
<voldial> adrien: that helps. thank you
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<infinity0> edwin: turns out the timeout thing was pretty simple, you can pull from git to test it
<infinity0> it's a bit rough around the edges though, keeps giving me "merlin was already processing" errors
<infinity0> but otherwise it works
<infinity0> i put the default timeout as 0.5s but you can override it with (setq merlin-timeout-auto-type XXX)
<infinity0> also (setq merlin-enable-auto-type t)
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<orbifx> any remarks on ocaml-sha?
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<orbifx> except that is says "non maintained"
<orbifx> any alternatives for generating sha512 hashes?
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<j0sh> orbifx: cryptokit?
<orbifx> j0sh: glad to hear a suggestion, let me check it out
<orbifx> looks good j0sh, any docs?
<j0sh> orbifx: i'm not sure if there are any generated docs online. but the source code is straightforward to read
<orbifx> ok
<orbifx> thanks j0sh
<orbifx> I'll give it a spin
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<j0sh> orbifx: the mli is well commented, and there is some test code you can use as an example
<orbifx> yeah
<orbifx> I am getting it with ocaml now and will try it
<orbifx> with opam I mean
<orbifx> 1
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<smondet> Drup: was there an effort to port the issues from ocsigen.org/trac to github? I'd love to know if http://ocsigen.org/trac/ticket/329 has been fixed :)
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<ollehar> anyone tried C-- as an alternative to llvm?
<Drup> a bit
<Drup> what was it ?
<Drup> smondet: ^
<ollehar> happy with the result you got?
<Drup> ollehar: was not answering you, sorry
<ollehar> oh, ok ^^
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<smondet> **don't remember
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