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<lorp>
Q: i'm having a pattern in my code where i need to match over a union type just to assert that i have the expected tag in hand (and extract its data) - so it's basically "match x with | `MyThing a -> stuff | _ -> assert false", is there a terser / more idiomatic ocaml way of doing this?
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<_y>
no
<_y>
you may put this in a function `as_my_thing`
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<lorp>
thanks _y, but can i pass `MyThing` as an argument to make that a generic `as_a_thing` function? (i guess not)
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<_y>
alternatively, you may write a non-exhaustive pattern-matching and locally disable the warning about it: let[@warning "-8"] (`MyThing a) = x in stuff
<lorp>
oh interesting, was not familiar with that! ye, i probably have a design flaw somewhere, i'm new to ocaml :)
<lorp>
thank you 🙏
<_y>
lorp, on your second question, this won’t work; however you may achieve something similar with GADTs, with a witness value, but that’s likely not for beginners (if for anyone) ;-)
<lorp>
i might just stick with the verbose version until i learn some more, and then refactor to try and avoid the scenario completely
<_y>
that is wiser
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<freyr69>
How to specify that the result type of my function is a subtype of t?
<freyr69>
In case of polymorphic variants
<freyr69>
something like `f : int -> ([ `A | `B ] :> res)`
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<zozozo>
freyr69: `f : int -> [< `A | `B ]` (`[< #foo ] design any subtype of foo iirc), but if that's the output of your function, you should be able to tell precisely what it cna output or not ?
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<freyr69>
zozozo: Yes, I want to specify that [ `A | `B] is a subtype of [`A | `B | `C]
<zozozo>
ah, well, just cast the result of the function: `(f 5 :> [`A | `B | `C])`
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<cemerick>
Any ideas what this means? `No implementations provided for the following modules: Unix referenced from src/foo.cmxa(Bar)`
<cemerick>
`Unix` is in the stdlib ???
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<zozozo>
cemerick: Unix is in the stdlib but must be linked explicitely (contrary to most other modules in the stdlib)
<cemerick>
zozozo: using dune? Very confusing, as I'm getting this error after moving some code from my tests into a library, where the former didn't do anything to link Unix explicitly.
<zozozo>
cemerick: using dune, juste add unix to the "libraries" field
<cemerick>
zozozo: oookay, it must have been carried along by ounit 👍
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<Drup>
how is that any different than the `with` idiom ?
<companion_cube>
it doesn't increase indentation, I guess
<companion_cube>
(also it uses the object mechanism, with the common interface)
<companion_cube>
IDisposable
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<orbifx>
Anyone using openbsd?
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<Leonidas>
UDisposable?
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<q9929t>
should I learn Ocaml or Haskell?
<companion_cube>
yes
<q9929t>
yes what? Which will make the other easier to learn?
<companion_cube>
honestly both are good
<q9929t>
I couldn't agree more. But I guess both has steep learning curve. So I was thinking if one could help learn other better!
<companion_cube>
hmm Ocaml is easier as a transition to Haskell, I think
<companion_cube>
Haskell is more different from mainstream languages than OCaml is, so the gap is wider
<q9929t>
Cool. I was already 10 chapters into "OCaml from the very beginning".
<Drup>
also, haskell is probably much easier to get into if you are already familiar with static typing and functional programming, which OCaml will teach you
<Leonidas>
q9929t: you should also learn Idris
<companion_cube>
woah there, slow down :D
<Drup>
Leonidas: why would you do that to him ?
<Leonidas>
I think learning Haskell and OCaml is about the same ballpark of difficulty. OCaml might be a bit easier, but mostly it's like asking whether Python or Ruby is easier to learn
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: hey, I haven't even talked about ATS2 yet :p
<companion_cube>
I don't want to touch this
<companion_cube>
I think ATS is possibly the ugliest language I've ever set eyes on
<q9929t>
Leonidas: I have planned to learn a language a year. So, I'll look into Idris.
<Leonidas>
q9929t: have you seen the 7 languages in 7 weeks books? They are a lot of fun.
<companion_cube>
yeah well wait until you know OCaml and Haskell before looking at Idris, I'd say
<Drup>
It's a bit like saying to someone "nice, you know how to use this screwdriver, let's now look at the drop-forge" =')
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: but everything I hear about it sounds like a more powerful Rust :-)
<companion_cube>
hu, closer to a more powerful haskell I'd say (but strict)
<Leonidas>
with less need of unsafe bits
<Drup>
Leonidas: you have to be able to differenciate between marketing and reality, when it comes to research-grade programing languages
<companion_cube>
it's definitely not looking like rust :D
<Leonidas>
Drup: are we talking about OCaml or ATS? *ducks*
<Drup>
ATS
<Drup>
ATS 1 was not even memory safey, so .. :/
<companion_cube>
but it was fast, right? :p
<Drup>
Well, it was fast on the toy bench, but nobody wrote anything in it, so ...
<Drup>
Like they say, no users, no problems
<Leonidas>
Yeah, that's a point.
<Leonidas>
That said it depends on your reasoning why you're learning a language
<q9929t>
Leonidas: I just found it. Will look into it.
<Drup>
Leonidas: regardless, you should learn languages that are "the nicest" in their category
<companion_cube>
100% this
<Leonidas>
I was learning Factor and I think I haven't had this much fun in learning a language, ever.
<Drup>
if you want to learn dependent types, yeah, Idris is nice
<Drup>
ATS isn't.
<companion_cube>
also, ATS' syntax is like someone smoke cracks while reading C with an eye, SML with the other eye
<Drup>
companion_cube: so like Rust ? :D
<companion_cube>
too bad because the low level aspects are really interesting (to me)
<companion_cube>
Drup: uh. well rust is the best you can achieve if you're trying to mix C++ and OCaml, I suppose
<companion_cube>
I like most of their choices
<Leonidas>
{}{}{}{}{}
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<companion_cube>
Leonidas: that's actually nice
<companion_cube>
in OCaml I do the same with () :/
<Leonidas>
You might enjoy reasonml
<companion_cube>
I know, but they have … dubious choices for many other things
<companion_cube>
(like record's `with` syntax)
<Leonidas>
I hate the way ocamlformat formats ( ) though
<Leonidas>
it is just weird and arbitrary
<Drup>
many people hate many choices about ocamlformat
<Drup>
I don't understand why they stick to it
<companion_cube>
united in hate!
<Drup>
it's like they want their software to fail
<Leonidas>
oh. I thought why people stick to ocamlformat. That'd be an easy answer.
<companion_cube>
there's only one good way to format ifs, and it's mine 😇
<Leonidas>
Drup: yes, I feel the same. Step 1: Impose a style noone in the wild uses Step 2: There are no more steps.
<companion_cube>
Step 2: go to step 1
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: yes, for that reason I don't use if at all
<Leonidas>
can't figure out how to make it look not completely terrible
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<cemerick>
it seems like reason would be an unvarnished good if/when the packaging and distribution stories are unified
<cemerick>
i.e. via esy or whatever
<Leonidas>
can't even install esy without npm :(
<cemerick>
I have no problems with this 🤷
<cemerick>
I also have a hard nodejs dependency, so oh well
<Leonidas>
It just shows me where their priorities are, and this does not inspire trust
<Leonidas>
also noone in the ocaml community seems to be using it. A shame because some ideas sound good.
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<cemerick>
what should their priorities be?
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<Leonidas>
who am I to tell people what their priorities should be
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<cemerick>
I think it's okay to say along the lines of "if I were working in that area, I'd do x,y,z"
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<cemerick>
at least, that's how I usually interpret such things
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<Leonidas>
well, if I were to launch an improved package manager and wanted to gain buy-in from ocaml people I would probably start by either making it installable with standard tools that everyone already has, like the usual curl/bash thing or make it installable with the prevailing package manager in said community
<Leonidas>
then I would probably also explain in detail why my package manager is better than the established one and have a way of using the existing packages of that package manager (if possible) or some way to translate these packages into my system
<Leonidas>
it would also be nice to state why improving the existing one is not feasible
<Armael>
:)
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<companion_cube>
you should tell them :p
<Leonidas>
companion_cube: they told me to look at the source and submit a PR to make it independent from npm, but first I would need to care enough about it to consider using it, let alone contribute to it
<Leonidas>
I only have this much motivation and granted, this has not caught me in a great mood
<Armael>
isn't it because the target public for esy isn't ocaml programmers, but js programmers transitionning to reason/bs?
<Armael>
hence the fact that esy reproduces the npm workflow that they know
<Armael>
which is also why they don't need justify that it improves opam or whatever, it just matches the habits of its target audience and opam doesn't
<Leonidas>
yes, that is well possible. But I think it is a shame to split the community
<companion_cube>
they're very proud of esy and think OCaml programmers should use it too, Armael
<companion_cube>
I think they plan to remove the hard dep on npm… at some point
<Leonidas>
to me at the moment it seems like OCaml users are second priority, it is more geared towards ReasonML/NPM/Node.
<Armael>
well yeah that's probably true
<Leonidas>
I was told it is only used for installation
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<cemerick>
is "independent from npm" actually a feature?
<cemerick>
I presume some nontrivial section of OCaml programmers do use/make javascript/web things, so making that easier seems good.
<companion_cube>
maybe a non trivial section of reasonML users
<companion_cube>
but "normal" OCaml programmers don't typically do web stuff, afaik
<companion_cube>
(or they do crazy jsoo + ocsigen stuff)
<cemerick>
I mean web stuff, using anything. Insofar as it's easier to use/reach web things with OCaml, maybe that means OCaml being used more in general.
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<companion_cube>
if it's only used for web stuff, using a disjoint set of libraries, I don't really care
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