<Regenaxer>
I found no better way, except for setting the symbolic link as described in the wiki which requires messing with the system
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<freemint>
Regenaxer, do you have any thoughts/opinions on teaching PicoLisp as a first programming language? There is an email on the mailing list about that
<Regenaxer>
Just saw this email too. Good question!
<Regenaxer>
I have no experience in teaching children such things
<Regenaxer>
Do you have an idea?
<freemint>
Says the father of a daughter
<Regenaxer>
3
<freemint>
I have some ideas but
<Regenaxer>
cool, you wrote
<freemint>
I am a bit suspicious since much "graphical, visual stuff" which was wished for dependends on doing floating point stuff.
<Regenaxer>
Not necessarily
<Regenaxer>
graphics is always integers down inside
<Regenaxer>
And the higher levels dont need it too. See the flight simulator
<freemint>
While you can have sin,cos via math.l it is kinda a second class citizen which you should only use *after* understanding how nummerics and floating point work
<Regenaxer>
You wont start with such math for little children
<freemint>
but such math is implicitly called, when rotating lines ...
<Regenaxer>
yes, but still not for 10 years old kids to start with
<Regenaxer>
You terrify them away!
<Regenaxer>
I had quite some pm with Nehal. She is mathematician and mother
<freemint>
I agree that you do not teach them about sin, cos and co. But if you use it they will see it due to picolisps introspectivity
<freemint>
and they will want to use it.
<freemint>
Also when i code picolisp using fixed.point numbers it looks much more arcane than the same code in a language with floating points
<freemint>
Regenaxer, mhh if she is a mathematician she might know what she is doing
<freemint>
Regenaxer, does nehal hand around in irc sometimes, if so at which hours mostly?
<Regenaxer>
I've never seen her here iirc
<freemint>
so the pm was email?
<Regenaxer>
yep
<freemint>
Regenaxer, you made a package managment for pilbox, do you have any plans to extend it to libraries for picolisp?
<Regenaxer>
IIRC I have not made a package managment. What do you mean?
<freemint>
You have a "insert program name" and it installs the programming in PilBox feauture
<Regenaxer>
Hmm, you mean the PILs as ZIP files?
<freemint>
You do it like that
<Regenaxer>
But where is the package managment?
<freemint>
but what are you too actually is implementing half a package manager
<Regenaxer>
It is only a call to zip -rFS ...
<freemint>
You only haven't realized yet because you have so little "packages" that you do not need to worry about dependencies and conflicts yet :P
<Regenaxer>
Which code do you mean?
<freemint>
i mean the install a function in to pilbox feature
<freemint>
i think you are half on your way to build your own package manager when you distribute named "packages of code and data" over the internet
<Regenaxer>
The code in src/de/software_lab/pilbox/PicoLisp.java ?
<freemint>
My question is: Do you plan to add more package manager features like versioning, dependencies etc?
<Regenaxer>
There is no package manangement at all :)
<freemint>
Will mainline PicoLisp see a port of these feautures?
<freemint>
Ok, then it is not one.
<Regenaxer>
I think you overinterprete something
<freemint>
But it may grow into one in 5 years. Overinterpreting that might be
<Regenaxer>
Some apps I have check their version number
<Regenaxer>
But I think this is not what you mean
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<Regenaxer>
oops
<Regenaxer>
Which code do you mean?
<freemint>
I do not refer to any code, i refer to my view of functionality pilbox has
<Regenaxer>
hmm
<Regenaxer>
I cannot see something worthwile
<Regenaxer>
it fetches a ZIP and unpacks it
<Regenaxer>
It is more all Android stuff
<Regenaxer>
Intents
<Regenaxer>
Depends on how you pass the ZIP
<freemint>
well fine with me
<freemint>
just another weird idea from me
<Regenaxer>
Not weird, but there is nothing in that direction :)
<Regenaxer>
in PilBow
<Regenaxer>
x
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<razzy>
i have experience teaching plenty of 10 year old children how to build aerodynamically working 2kg model of aeroplanes.
<razzy>
my oppinion is that children are just unexperienced adults.
<razzy>
if you understand problem, build walkable path, put *awesome* rewards along the way, even stupid kids should make it. :] they invest 2hour/week for 2 years untill they take off :]
<Regenaxer>
cool
<razzy>
well, my ncurses calls fails at http://ix.io/1G53 when calling vip~vi function. it is native C function. it is harder to pinpoint what next.
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<razzy>
to be clear: if i am in debugger, and i am inside some function, i cannot look into symbol (pretty curses) directly, i have to use (pretty vip~curses) yes?
<Regenaxer>
yes, or set your search oder (symbols '(vip pico))
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<Regenaxer>
You do not get the error from (quit "No CURSES found") ?
<razzy>
no such error
<razzy>
i still get error i send you, no such file
<Regenaxer>
"cannot open shared object file"?
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<Regenaxer>
So that means it had found "libncursesw.so" before
<Regenaxer>
and opened with dlopen()
<Regenaxer>
If I try this in a plain (non-vip) REPL, I get:
<Regenaxer>
: (let F (native "@" "fopen" 'N "/dev/tty" "r+") (native "libncursesw.so" "newterm" 'N 0 F F))
<Regenaxer>
-> 524738252800
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<Regenaxer>
This does not work on your system?
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<freemint>
razzy read the logs, there is a question for you
<Regenaxer>
yeah, not very nice to ask here and then run away
<freemint>
Well atleast you gave the shortest possible test with clear instructions. Regenaxer good job
<Regenaxer>
thx
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<freemint>
But you could have run it more often to get a smaller pointer in return "-> 524738252800" is huge
<freemint>
;P
<Regenaxer>
Why should it become smaller?
<freemint>
you are now ruining the joke.
<Regenaxer>
I dont see a joke
<freemint>
It was a bad one.
<Regenaxer>
;)
<freemint>
It was like: Compliment you being good along dimension X. But you could have messed with nature of hte universe and you could have been even better along X. Shame on you. ;P
<razzy>
sorry, my new RPI system is breaking down very easily :]
<razzy>
freemint: no loose sdcard. i somehow generate weird character, with my key combination, that completely switch keyboard setting, and effectivelly locke me out of controll :D.
<Regenaxer>
No path involved
<Regenaxer>
Library path, but dlopen() succeeded
<razzy>
and i always forgot not to push it, because i get soo used to it :D
<razzy>
it is fresh raspbian (debian stretch) instalation i think
<razzy>
maybe i have too new libcurses? so pil has trouble finding all of them?
<razzy>
is it possible? should i investigate?
<Regenaxer>
I dont think so
<Regenaxer>
it found "libncursesw.so" obviously
<razzy>
i also tried running it as root.
<razzy>
no change
<Regenaxer>
no root needed
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<razzy>
i have lost interest in this for today. if anybody has ideas i will try tomorrow.
<razzy>
only thing i could try is to rewrite my shell into pm and back
<Regenaxer>
Sorry, no idea atm
<razzy>
uff, at least i solved my special character issue :]
<freemint>
well that was "out-of-charcter" ;?
* freemint
has a bad pun day
<razzy>
contrary to popular oppinion, i think that bad puns are better than none :]
<Regenaxer>
As I wrote in the wiki article, ncurses is a horrible mess
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<razzy>
i agree :] ncurses means you curse n-times for every use.
<razzy>
good pun?
<razzy>
i would like good, simple editor. now i have to go back to emacs :]
<Regenaxer>
Yes, good pun :)
<freemint>
"i would like good, simple editor. now i have to go back to emacs :]" - best pun of the day
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<Regenaxer>
*
* razzy
is always puzzled what people consider funny
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