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<aw->
hmm.. small discrepancy with pil21.tgz, it seems bin/pil is missing.. i notice in picolisp.tgz there is 'pil' and 'bin/pil', both are slightly different.. but my scripts break because 'bin/pil' is not present in pil21
<aw->
and the INSTALl instructions for picolisp.tgz: '# ln -s /usr/lib/picolisp/bin/pil /usr/bin'
<aw->
so, those instructions won't work for pil21
<aw->
i tried to 'ln -s /usr/lib/picolisp/pil /usr/bin' but then it always searches for '/usr/bin/bin/picolisp' instead of '/usr/bin/picolisp'
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<Regenaxer>
Thanks tankf33der for the compile research!
<Regenaxer>
aw-, pil21 is not a complete release yet
<Regenaxer>
bin/pil will probably be the same in the future
<Regenaxer>
Most notably the documeentation is missing. I want to update many parts in it
<aw->
Regenaxer hi
<aw->
no problem
<aw->
i notice @lib/btree was missing as well ;)
<aw->
and @lib/db.l i guess you didn't finish those yet
<Regenaxer>
yeah, and all gui stuff
<Regenaxer>
tankf33der: Instead of modifying the O_ASYNC line, we could somehow define O_ASYNC as 0 for SunOS
<Regenaxer>
O_ASYNC is needed for SIGIO, which is not in SunOS, right?
<tankf33der>
yea
<Regenaxer>
(I forgot the details)
<tankf33der>
check pil32 code
<tankf33der>
it was wrapped somehow
<tankf33der>
lets avoid porting as discussed before
<Regenaxer>
yeah
<Regenaxer>
not yet
<Regenaxer>
Just that I want to keep the code free from #ifdef's
<tankf33der>
this unofficial steps enough. no community.
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<Regenaxer>
As we are using Jitsi in PilCon so far, I'd like to hear your opinion. Is Jitsi still considered a good choice?
<Regenaxer>
I notice quite some problems
<Regenaxer>
Yesterday I had a meeting with someone in Germany, and it was unusable
<Regenaxer>
I wonder if people in PilCon have such problems too
<mtsd>
Hi Regenaxer
<Regenaxer>
Hi mtsd!
<mtsd>
It has worked well for me at least, so far
<Regenaxer>
good
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<Regenaxer>
Not sure if the problems yesterday were Jitsi's fault
<Regenaxer>
The other problem is that the Android app does not support screen sharing
<Regenaxer>
(and seems not to be planned for the near future)
<mtsd>
Ok, that complicates things
<mtsd>
There was something mentioned about using Firefox causing problems, a while ago?
<mtsd>
Apparently causing problems for all participants
<Regenaxer>
Not sure if it was firefox yesterday. Should have asked
<mtsd>
I use firefox, and it seems to have worked for PilCon though. Maybe problems in older versions?
<Regenaxer>
Perhaps
<Regenaxer>
On the desktop I always started up Chromium for that (I never use it normally)
<Regenaxer>
Do we have any alternatives to Jitsi?
<Regenaxer>
For me screen sharing on the app is important
<Regenaxer>
I don't want to start the desktop
<mtsd>
I don't know much about alternatives, but I could check
<Regenaxer>
IIRC somebody mentioned here
<Regenaxer>
beneroth perhaps?
<Regenaxer>
In principle I like Jitsi very much
<Regenaxer>
The problems yesterday could well have been due to network problems
<Regenaxer>
But I'd prefer to use only the app
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, was the other participant in a enterprise network?
<Regenaxer>
No, home office
<beneroth>
ok
<Regenaxer>
But in south Bavaria, sometimes bad network
<beneroth>
the bulk of the firefox problems should have been resolved a few updates ago (mainly updates in firefox)
<Regenaxer>
good to know
<beneroth>
enterprise networks often block the WebRTC used by jitsi
<Regenaxer>
yes, that we noticed too
<Regenaxer>
He used a VPN for a while and Jitsi stopped
<Regenaxer>
In the end we resorted to telephon
<Regenaxer>
e
<beneroth>
alternatives: I wanted to look into "Big Blue Button", it is a videoconferencing/school-teaching software, comparable to jitsi but more functionality afaik (e.g. whiteboard to collaboratively draw on)
<beneroth>
german foss, SaaS, afaik
<Regenaxer>
and did only screens in Jitsi
<beneroth>
but haven't had the time yet
<beneroth>
ok
<Regenaxer>
ah
<beneroth>
VPN might also be disturbing the WebRTC..dunno
<Regenaxer>
yes, big blue you mentioned
<beneroth>
afaik only 2-3 persons: peer-to-peer connections, more participants: everything goes over the server
<beneroth>
I thought jitsi works somehow like that
<beneroth>
unsure
<beneroth>
some weeks ago I had the problem that sound didn't work when I joined 4 others... only my audio (in and out) didn't work (seemed working to me, and so to the others, but I couldn't hear them and they not me)
<beneroth>
an update and server reboot later: no more problem
<beneroth>
1:1 I had never problems
<Regenaxer>
ok
<Regenaxer>
Well, let's stay with Jitsi
<Regenaxer>
seems best so far
<beneroth>
aye
<beneroth>
I update/reboot the server now
<beneroth>
no jitsi updates
<Regenaxer>
ok
<Regenaxer>
I'll experinment a little more
<Regenaxer>
Not needing Chromium would simplify things a little
<beneroth>
T, but you can just forget about that
<Regenaxer>
about Chromium?
<beneroth>
aye
<beneroth>
Mozilla is dying, and Chromium is the de-facto web standard for the foreseeable future
<Regenaxer>
oh, right
<beneroth>
html/js/css and even this fancy new http stuff is basically just standardizing what google is doing.
<beneroth>
welcome back in 2003
<Regenaxer>
yeah
<beneroth>
if EU would be serious about wanting to get IT business here, they would fork Firefox and Rust now from Mozilla and make into a real tech/user-focused project again
<mtsd>
Yes, too bad about Mozilla
<beneroth>
but I guess all those politicians statements is only about getting money to their crypto fantasy friends
<beneroth>
aye, it's a shame
<mtsd>
I don't have chromium installed, feel a little reluctant to add it
<Regenaxer>
I hate it, it does not behave correct in fvwm window manager
<beneroth>
T
<mtsd>
But since google funds Mozilla to a large extent, my feelings against chrome are not that rational
<beneroth>
and I can't keep firefox for more than a few days, it crashes, bugs in video playing or memory leaks all over the place
<Regenaxer>
I see
<beneroth>
mtsd, well Mozilla did nothing good with this money, and now Google might not extend the contract
<beneroth>
that's why they kicked out the techies
<mtsd>
True. They dropped the ball, so to say
<mtsd>
We might be back to having just one browser again. This time Chrome instead of internet explorer
<beneroth>
they earned over a billion in recent years, could have put that into and index fund and pay 50-100 good developers forever, but now... CEO takes 2.5 million a year and the rest is put into non-firefox stuff
<beneroth>
mtsd, nono, you can have a ton of browsers... just all based on chromium. but you know that is different, not a monopoly, no no...
<beneroth>
Cory Doctorow, one of the best thinkers of our times
<mtsd>
You can have all the browsers you like. Based on our tech.
<beneroth>
he argues it all comes done to Monopoly and lack of Monopoly regulation since the 70s
<aw->
beneroth mtsd hi
<beneroth>
mtsd, yep. and trust our servers
<aw->
try suckless 'surf' browser
<beneroth>
hey aw-
<beneroth>
yeah, tried, not bad
<aw->
i like it
<beneroth>
"Links" is also getting traction
<mtsd>
Hi aw-
<aw->
havent tried with anything heavy
<beneroth>
I have to write something myself. Either based on "Links" or by making a web app kinda...
<beneroth>
aw-, I'm a heavy browser user. I like to have thousands of tabs open.
<mtsd>
When it is about just reading something on the web, I tend to use w3m a lot
<aw->
i see
<mtsd>
But then again, I am not such a heavy web user. Not anymore
<beneroth>
I'm a heavy reader, all over the place
<Regenaxer>
I use the PilBox browser when w3m does not suffice
<beneroth>
I never had facebook, nor twitter. I read twitter sometimes. but mostly just HN and random wild stuff
<Regenaxer>
but it is chrome-based too :(
<mtsd>
No facebook or twitter here either. I read some RSS feeds here and there, using a simple, textbased, reader
<mtsd>
Like a person stuck in the previous millenium ;)
<beneroth>
Knuth gave up on email, while he was certainly one of the first users...
<beneroth>
that is not backwards, that is focused :)
<Regenaxer>
He should switch to Delta :)
<beneroth>
I should, maybe
<beneroth>
though privacy could be better
<Regenaxer>
yeah, not perfect
<beneroth>
Dark Mail just has to become a thing
<Regenaxer>
Optimal would be Briar, but it is sooo tough to establish the contacts
<Regenaxer>
I used it 2 years ago or so
<Regenaxer>
it is tor based
<beneroth>
there is not one tool for everything. Tools should be chosen according to needs. Sometimes you need to be able to chat with strangers, sometimes secure communication is top priority
<Regenaxer>
T
<beneroth>
ideally everything is as secure as possible, and the secure stuff should not only be limited to things which might spark interest of malicious parties
<beneroth>
bbl
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<aw->
mtsd: what rss reader do you use? i'm also stuck in the 90s, i still use Pine for my email (now called Alpine), not to be confused with Alpine Linux
<mtsd>
I use a reader called newsboat
<mtsd>
It works well for my needs. It is a fork from an earlier reader called NewsBeuter
<aw->
curses based, good
<aw->
thanks!
<mtsd>
I use mutt to read email, been reading about Alpine but never tried it
<Regenaxer>
I use mutt too
<Regenaxer>
Perfectly configurable
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<aw->
same generation
<Regenaxer>
yay
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<beneroth>
Regenaxer, bigbluebutton is LPGL, can be self-hosted, and has much more features than Jitsi. It's truly for online teaching. But looks also a lot harder to setup well.
<beneroth>
so for the long run probably worth switching to
<beneroth>
there are multiple existing hosters, one is listing a price of 150$/Month (100 concurrent users) for the lowest tier, all others have no price listing, they want clients to get in contact
<beneroth>
trying to setup a server is on my list, but not so high priority...
<Regenaxer>
Thanks for all then info!
<Regenaxer>
Sounds good
<beneroth>
Regenaxer, maybe interesting for you (probably not): "Precision Opportunities for Demanded Bits in LLVM", https://blog.regehr.org/archives/1714