cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://botbot.me/freenode/pypy/ ) | use cffi for calling C | the secret reason for us trying to get PyPy users: to test the JIT well enough that we're somewhat confident about it
<njs>
but you don't have that surprise re-entrancy kind of interference
<simpson>
Right. There's no way to "spawn a vat"; that is, to make another event loop and require *only* sends across the gap.
<simpson>
asyncio always returning to the event loop is important. Monte does the same thing; vats take "turns", with only one sent message delivered per turn.
<simpson>
Because this leads to *no sync I/O*, something that Monte has by default and Python might never get to have.
<njs>
and yeah, the basic problem with the loop-of-synchronous-steps model is that so many programmers hate it and will use go instead that it's hard to justify :-)
<simpson>
Ha, yeah. OTOH I feel that writing programs in Go *is* sufficient punishment for liking/creating it.
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<simpson>
And at the end of the day, plan interference is still a thing, partially because it's not (yet) well-defined, and partially because we don't seem to have a control-flow construct anywhere in the literature that *can* allow plans to interleave (say, for optimizing/batching/etc.) without also allowing interference.
<mdash>
simpson: STM was supposed to come rescue us all from that
<simpson>
mdash: It's not too late! Or too early?
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<njs>
unfortunately the STM hype has encountered conflicts and been atomically rolled back, as if it never existed
<energizer>
nice.
<simpson>
It doesn't help that, AFAIK, the only OOTB STM that I've seen is GHC's. GHC Haskell is fine, I guess (what's worse, Haskell forever, or e.g. C++ forever?) but it's not the future I wanted.
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<fijal>
I must say that as much as I would like yall to be chased away for out of topic, I love how #pypy is a home to whack programming language ideas :-)
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<simpson>
I will gladly come back on-topic. #monte for Monte, #proglangdesign for PLT.
<njs>
fijal: pretty sure whinging about python's design is extremely on topic here
<fijal>
njs: we made it out of topic for #pypy ;-)
<fijal>
or pypy in general, maybe not #pypy
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<kenaan>
arigo cffi/cffi 8ebfcc176be2 /doc/source/embedding.rst: Close #264
<mattip>
fijal: it's not like the channel is overrun these days
<fijal>
mattip: precisely
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<kenaan>
arigo cffi/cffi 316d5bc342b5 /doc/source/embedding.rst: Ah, we don't usually need the full path here
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<mattip>
. I like the "whack job" dicusssions here, it means I don't need to join other channels to be entertained
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<fijal>
hehe, me too :]
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* arigato
implements os.sched_*()
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* cfbolz
waves at the whack jobs
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