cfbolz changed the topic of #pypy to: PyPy, the flexible snake (IRC logs: https://quodlibet.duckdns.org/irc/pypy/latest.log.html#irc-end ) | use cffi for calling C | if a pep adds a mere 25-30 [C-API] functions or so, it's a drop in the ocean (cough) - Armin
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<YannickJadoul> mattip: We're not running `pip install --upgrade pip` on Windows. As far as I saw, it happens during `python get-pip.py`
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<mattip> maybe get-pip is runnunigit
<mattip> running it
* cfbolz waves
<YannickJadoul> Yeah, possibly. But then we never had this problem before (while we did bump into problems with `pip install -U pip`)
<YannickJadoul> And it doesn't happen with PyPy 7.3.0
<mattip> is this python 2.7 or 3.6?
* arigo waves back
<cfbolz> arigo: you doing OK?
<YannickJadoul> mattip: 2.7, but it never gets to 3.6, so I don't know there
<YannickJadoul> Ah, but wait. Did PyPy 7.3.1 start using the `Script` directory rather than `bin`?
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<YannickJadoul> Right. So Windows doesn't warn is you make a symlink from an already existing directory to a nonexisting directory...
<YannickJadoul> Anyway, Windows seems to be working, then! Thanks for the help :-)
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<mattip> YannickJadoul: is there still a problem with macOS?
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<YannickJadoul> mattip: Still running
<YannickJadoul> On GitHub actions, macOS works, it seems
<YannickJadoul> On CircleCI and Travis CI not
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<mattip> it seems our buildbot is using a different xcode setup than travis, circleCI expect
<YannickJadoul> Hmmm, interesting
<YannickJadoul> I think the test projects are just the most basic setuptools setup.py
<mattip> Could you be using 10.13, which is no longer supported?
<mattip> yup, by default travis is 10.13
<YannickJadoul> Yes, it seems so. But is 10.13 not supported anymore?
<YannickJadoul> Not supported by PyPy or by Apple?
<mattip> my bad, it is still getting security updates
<YannickJadoul> But indeed, Azure Pipelines is passing and running on 10.15
<YannickJadoul> That's what I checked, indeed
<mattip> according to this, https://xcodereleases.com/, the laste security update uses xcode 10.0 at least
<mattip> could you try upping the image on travis to "osx_image: xcode10" ?
<YannickJadoul> And circle CI: 9.4.1 Xcode 9.4.1 (Build 9F2000) macOS 10.13.3
<YannickJadoul> But CircleCI 10.0.0, Xcode 10.0 (Build 10A255), macOS 10.13.6 also fails
<YannickJadoul> Yes, I'll give it a try
<mattip> hmm. I wonder how it works with cpython: we are using the same buildbot
<mattip> no, never mind if circle CI fails, that will fail too
<mattip> let me see if I can figure out what happens on the cpython builds
<mattip> maybe they pin xcode to an earlier version?
<YannickJadoul> There's a whole thing about targetting older macOS versions
<YannickJadoul> That we had to dive into to make valid wheels
<YannickJadoul> Do PyPy builds set MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET or pass --mmacosx-version-min= ?
<YannickJadoul> (Looking at buildbot as well, but not used to it, so a bit lost as well)
<mattip> uhh,apparently we set 10.7
<mattip> MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET
<mattip> in lib-python/*/distutils/sysconfig_pypy.py
<mattip> maybe we need to boost that to 10.13.6
<mattip> maybe we need to boost that to 10.14
<YannickJadoul> Also when _pypy_openssl.pypy-73.so is built?
<mattip> where would one pass --mmacosx-version-min= ?
<YannickJadoul> To clang, I think
<YannickJadoul> But if MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET is set, that's not necessary
<YannickJadoul> 10.7 should be fine, as long as things build, btw. For modern C++ versions, you sometimes need a higher target version
<mattip> does not build _ssl
<mattip> let me ask the buildbot owner what we should be doing (via mail)
<YannickJadoul> OK, it's probably not that. I checked with otool -l (https://stackoverflow.com/a/17148833)
<YannickJadoul> pypy2.7-v7.3.1rc1-osx64 yannick$ otool -l lib_pypy/_pypy_openssl.pypy-73.so
<mattip> what do you get?
<YannickJadoul> And I get `cmd LC_VERSION_MIN_MACOSX, cmdsize 16, version 10.7, sdk 10.15.4`
<mattip> sdk 10.15.4 is wrong, no?
<YannickJadoul> Same as the pypy binary, which does work
<mattip> what do you get on cpython's _ssl c-extension module?
<YannickJadoul> According to the SO answer, no
<YannickJadoul> "whereas a binary compiled with the 10.8 SDK with deployment target 10.7 should have an LC_VERSION_MIN_MACOSX load command like this:"
<YannickJadoul> CPython's /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/_ssl.so doesn't even contain LC_VERSION_MIN_MACOSX
<mattip> ok, so let me ask what is going on. The buildbot updated the macOS version lately, it caused some back-and-forth till we got cffi working
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<YannickJadoul> Great! If there's anything I can test/do meanwhile, do let me know
<mattip> thanks for trying out the rc, it is really good to get feedback
<YannickJadoul> :-)
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<cfbolz> mattip: I ran a few things with the pypy3 release candidate, couldn't find any issues
<mattip> cfbolz: on linux64?
<cfbolz> yep
<cfbolz> ubuntu
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