<rafa>
wpwrak: I love your work man.. wow.. if you have some wireless connectivity.. all of us will try to follow you.. at least to steal your hardware :D
<rafa>
cya all
<wpwrak>
nebajoth: yup. and they require a receiver of -84 dBm for this. meanwhile, some chips already do -103 dBm. if your noise floor is low enough, that could mean you get almost ten times the original distance.
<wpwrak>
rafa: sneef. and i thought already the idbg would be enough :)
<wpwrak>
nebajoth: pity that i don't have my old apartment anymore, though. there i had two microwave antenna clusters right in front of my nose. the perfect environment for interference testing ;-)
<wpwrak>
of course, measuring anything with reasonable accuracy was quite hellish. instead of "add a wire and connect the scope probe" it was "make a custom coax cable and solder a connector right into the circuit"
<wpwrak>
"reasonable accuracy" = such that Vhigh-Vlow > Vpp(noise), ie., such that there's at least a reliable trigger.
<nebajoth>
I'm sure one of your neighbours must have a microwave you can stand next to for a little wireless testing? :D
<wpwrak>
hmm. i could sabotage the shielding of mine a bit. should get a new one anyway.
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: am I too cautious with saying Milkymist NanoNote needs 5 years?
<wolfspraul>
I'm all for making it faster... :-)
<wolfspraul>
I think we are already moving in that direction, it's all just a matter of executing all the required steps.
<unclouded>
sorry if this is a silly question: the nbd package in OpenWRT requires glibc>=2.6.  If I build nbd.ipk, will it be able to run on a NanoNote that has only uClibc installed?
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: i think you could make a MM-NN relatively soon. MM seems to have all the features you need for this. some of them may not work perfectly yet, but they're close.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: basically a nice portable development platform for FPGA hackers interested in making a SoC.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: the advantage of making it a NanoNote would be that you don't need to engineer the case etc.
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: ok but we are moving in that direction already, just that you jump over a number of steps.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: as soon as you have the ability to make your own layouts at will, which as I understand things, you don't quite have yet, a MM-NN should be fairly easy to make.
<wolfspraul>
layouts?
<wolfspraul>
you mean in kicad?
<wolfspraul>
I think you know all the different things that are moving.
<wolfspraul>
so first, Milkymist One, right now only 6 boards exist, and while this was a great step forward, we are really focusing on the rc2 run now.
<wolfspraul>
if rc2 is successful - great!
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: preferably KiCad, yes. not sure where you are with the layouts. some thing seem to be already under qi-hw control. others not.
<wolfspraul>
ok I explain
<wolfspraul>
Milkymist One RC1 was done with Altium Designer and a layout outsourcing house
<wolfspraul>
the Altium files have all been released under CC licenses
<wolfspraul>
of course also all other files, gerber, AI, etc.
<wpwrak>
so, open but hard to reuse
<wolfspraul>
RC2 will also continue to use Altium
<wolfspraul>
yes, but then there is Xue, Andres' first Milkymist derivative
<wpwrak>
ok. SIE seems to be a step better, no ?
<wolfspraul>
no I think we use OrCad there :-)
<wpwrak>
or was it Xue ? i always confuse the two :)
<wolfspraul>
kicad files exist, but they are not used for production
<wolfspraul>
yes, so Xue
<wolfspraul>
Xue is indeed another interesting reuse of Milkymist
<wolfspraul>
basically we remove a lot of connectors, and add a CMOS image sensor
<wolfspraul>
and then, it's done all in kicad
<wolfspraul>
I am not sure whether Andres will really succeed with that, but he is definitely on it right now!
<wolfspraul>
so yes, Xue would be a board that uses the spartan-6, and is done in kicad
<wolfspraul>
so far _all_ kicad projects have stalled or failed at some point :-)
<wolfspraul>
so there comes the point where Andres (in this case) just gives up, we take the schematics, re-enter them in orcad/altium, go to a layout house to finish the layout, and then into production
<wpwrak>
ah, just component placement for now
<wolfspraul>
now, from either Milkymist One or Xue to a NanoNote board is still a lot of work
<wolfspraul>
there is no LCM controller
<wolfspraul>
I don't know about heat generate by the s-6 in the small nanonote case
<wolfspraul>
power consumption - if it works for 30 minutes I think it's a stupid idea
<wpwrak>
btw, i wonder what the great concern about ground fill is. i needed it the first time for the wpan, and it works much better than i expected. a lot better than when i played with it a few years ago.
<wolfspraul>
it's just a bit early I think, but yes definitely this kind of idea is on the horizon. totally!
<wolfspraul>
don't ask me.
<wolfspraul>
we have a number of kicad projects 'live' right now
<wolfspraul>
1. the milkymist one jtag/serial reflashing cable (actually a small pcb)
<wolfspraul>
2. xue
<wolfspraul>
3. ben-wpan
<wpwrak>
(lcm) hmm, i thought one of the demos showed an lcm ? or was that just a composite video board ?
<wolfspraul>
#1 is trivial, I think we can take that into production, the entire process in kicad etc.
<wolfspraul>
that was probably via VGA
<wpwrak>
4. idbg (just not hosted at qi-hw)
<wolfspraul>
#2 is a big challenge. Andres wants to do it, but if he gets stuck and gives up I am ready to support the project with closed tools, same as Milkymist One
<wolfspraul>
#3 - I am very curious about this, but haven't had the time yet to fully understand what this is, how we can use it, etc.
<wolfspraul>
ok great, didn't realize idbg was in kicad too
<wolfspraul>
we have kicad files for SIE, and for NanoNote, but I think they never made it into actual production
<wpwrak>
ben-wpan will be an ieee 802.15.4 transceiver board for the ben. as an intermediate step, i add a USB-to-SPI converter so that i can plug the thing into any PC
<wolfspraul>
which doesn't mean that we won't try again, of course
<wpwrak>
(idbg) did you really expect me to use anything else ? ;-))
<wolfspraul>
so while I love the idea of Milkymist NanoNote, I think it's a bit too early.
<wolfspraul>
We are working on it already, just indirectly and several steps away.
<wolfspraul>
first Milkymist One
<wolfspraul>
let's get that done right
<wolfspraul>
with reflashing cable, with case, with great software support
<wpwrak>
sure. before that, it wouldn't make sense
<wolfspraul>
it may take a while to get there
<wolfspraul>
I really don't want to jump around and leave half-finished stuff behind.
<wpwrak>
just an idea for a direction that should be feasible soon thereafter
<wolfspraul>
so that's also true for the Ben, I will definitely continue to squeeze more out of it for a while.
<wolfspraul>
I am just starting with it actually, and your great hacking is very very helpful! (idbg, counterweight, now 802.15.4)
<wpwrak>
(ben) you mean with software or do you also envision a ben II with hardware changes ?
<wolfspraul>
yes, as direction we are 100% on the same page
<wolfspraul>
first software, it's obvious that it could still be much bette
<wolfspraul>
hardware, we are collecting bits and pieces
<wolfspraul>
like your scan work, your counterweight, maybe kristian paul can do more on GPS
<wolfspraul>
we are looking into the 4760 from Ingenic
<wolfspraul>
nothing new, all the things that are in motion already
<wpwrak>
so ben II == Ya ? will ya have a cpu change and if the cpu isn't ready but some interesting hardware features are, then a ben II ?
<wolfspraul>
cannot tell right now
<wpwrak>
s/will/Or will/
<wolfspraul>
the package needs to be right, i.e. the cost to manufacture and difference from Ya has to be 'right'
<wolfspraul>
if it's only minimally different in hw, maybe continuing to improve sw is better
<wpwrak>
well, as long as there's a steady stream of development, there are always things you can pick up and integrate :)
<wolfspraul>
if we find a large enough hw difference that is also cheap to take into production, then let's go for it, the Ya will replace the Ben
<wolfspraul>
yes correct
<wpwrak>
what are your thoughts on case changes ? impossible ? small things, like cutting a hole ? bigger things, like moving holes ? anything is possible (i.e., a small change will be just as expensive as a big one) ?
<wpwrak>
(all this within the ben II / Ya timeframe)
<wpwrak>
of course, once the Ya serial number wraps from 99999999 to 00000000, the cost of a case change will probably be a very minor concern :) of course, then you may be more interested in choosing an adequate yacht :)
<wolfspraul>
case changes: I am not actively working on any mechanical stuff around the NanoNote at the moment.
<wolfspraul>
and I won't, it simply makes no sense economically
<wolfspraul>
first I need to find a way to make a great case for the Milkymist One
<wolfspraul>
actually I am following with interest what your scanning activities will result in :-)
<wolfspraul>
tooling for plastic parts is just really expensive
<wolfspraul>
why throw our limited money into that? it's hard to justify.
<wolfspraul>
so my plan there is to first learn more, find ways to do it cheaper.
<wpwrak>
i think you'd have to radically simplify the case. e.g., have the widest part of any hole intersect with the tool boundary
<wpwrak>
you can probably have two-part tools for most elements. that should help to keep costs sane.
<wpwrak>
yup, learning more is good
<wolfspraul>
I don't know, need to learn more.
<wolfspraul>
also there is no rush, we have the Ben and it's a great platform, and we can sell it today.
<wolfspraul>
so little by little the pieces are coming together to make more powerful copyleft devices
<wpwrak>
(scanning) so far, nobody seems to actually do anything with the scans. well, except for myself. they were quite useful for the counterweight. i still had to make changes after seeing the real thing in the real case, but it helped a lot to get there.
<wolfspraul>
without sounding direspectful to anybody, I doubt anybody will do anything with them :-)
<wpwrak>
(rush) the things is that you can't add connectors without changing the case. and you have the imbalance problem. of course, you could just add counterweights :)
<wolfspraul>
we are real pioneers in all this, I doubt anybody will really move from talking mode to action mode
<wpwrak>
always the optimist :)
<wolfspraul>
but who knows, it's out there so it's possible
<wolfspraul>
well...
<wolfspraul>
I can tell you that I am super interested.
<wolfspraul>
those scans are the basis of any future work I will do around the mechanical
<wpwrak>
they're at least good for sanity checking
<wolfspraul>
it's a copyleft project after all, so I am not that interested in buying great proprietary stuff and not learning anything in the process
<wpwrak>
it would probably be a good exercise to just try to remake the ben case. or at least one of the case parts.
<wolfspraul>
yes, exactly
<wolfspraul>
those are things I imagine doing, or outsourcing to someone in China. but it won't be tomorrow, it will take a bit of time.
<wolfspraul>
it's an excellent step anyway
<wpwrak>
the more of the process you own, the easier it is to change it, too
<wolfspraul>
build open foundations, then go from there step by step
<wolfspraul>
sure
<wpwrak>
i just wish there was a plastic equivalent to lead/tin. those wooden molds are actually quite fun. incredibly cheap to make, and good for quite number of runs. yield is bad, because the heat distribution is all wrong, but on a good day, with the counterweight, about 80% are possible.
<wpwrak>
the molds would even as longer if i hadn't lazily (*) skipped some basics of mold-making of course. (*) actually, mainly because heekspython doesn't have the functions i would need for giving the molds a better shape. better shape would mean non-vertical walls and rounded corners.
<wpwrak>
s/as/last/
<nebajoth>
this paper by sebastian is super interesting
<wpwrak>
nebajoth: yup. very nice work. he thought of a lot of things.
<wolfspraul>
ok guys then jump into the Milkymist project! :-)
<nebajoth>
this is totally the future
<nebajoth>
fpga cpus
<nebajoth>
the cpu itself becomes a spime
<wolfspraul>
yeah but we need free fpgas as well, ... :-)
<nebajoth>
cursed recursive tasks
<wolfspraul>
nebajoth: do you think you can help in any way?
<wolfspraul>
I need to make a rough allocation plan for the rc2 boards
<nebajoth>
"any" is a broad word
<nebajoth>
allocation plan
<wolfspraul>
we will probably only make one run
<nebajoth>
what is the unit cost?
<wolfspraul>
sure :-) following and giving feedback is already a start
<wolfspraul>
well it's difficult
<wolfspraul>
I don't want to make too many, because it's still too risky
<nebajoth>
understandable
<wolfspraul>
if there is a problem, my reputation as a manufacturer will suffer, along with the cash losses
<wolfspraul>
first run was 6, and for such a new design the results were very good
<nebajoth>
how different is rc2?
<wolfspraul>
a safe bet would be 10-15, but we want to be more aggressive
<nebajoth>
why do you want to be more aggressive?
<wolfspraul>
rc2 only has bugfixes from rc1, here's what we found
<wpwrak>
right now, he seems to need mainly fpga experts. and all is done with xilinx's proprietary tools. to make this a useful linux system, a mmu would be highly desirable. that's currently missing. of course, with an fpga, it's "just" a software upgrade.
<wolfspraul>
sebastien routinely tells me he does not at all only need fpga experts
<nebajoth>
why was the mmu left out originallyy?
<wolfspraul>
in fact he would love people to jump into the user-mode app now, flickernoise
<nebajoth>
I know a DJ who would be interested in it
<wolfspraul>
and there is always room to improve the toolchain, Linux kernel, distros etc.
<nebajoth>
I also know someone with some fpga experience
<wolfspraul>
nebajoth: ok let me explain first about the 'allocation'
<nebajoth>
:D
<wolfspraul>
so Sebastien wants 20 for 27c3
<nebajoth>
sorry, I know I ask big questions
<wolfspraul>
we will sell them, probably at 350 USD + shipping
<nebajoth>
ok
<wolfspraul>
it's very hard to calculate costs for such small runs, essentially all participants continue to invest money (spend more than they make), although some bean counters may do some math on the components and come up with a 'bom' of maybe 100-200 USD
<wolfspraul>
but bottom line is the rc2 will be offered for 350 USD
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: yes, he also wants people to work on the incompatible with the rest of the world toolkit and gui :) i'm much less convinced about that side of the story.
<nebajoth>
I don't think its unreasonable to organize people ahead of time for a run this small
<wolfspraul>
we don't want to make too few, cutting into or delaying valuable contributions, and also not too many, giving us a sales headache, especially if there are any problems with the boards (case is also missing)
<nebajoth>
ie: collect money
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: well, it is compatible at the bottom - can run on SDL or X. but things on top aren't.
<nebajoth>
perhaps even $400
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: I am talking about gcc, Linux, OpenWrt
<nebajoth>
from everyone who wants one
<nebajoth>
just put a date on it
<nebajoth>
Place your order by Aug 29, 2010
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: yup, these look more useful to me
<wolfspraul>
yes the organization starts here and now :-)
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: Sebastien has a very VJ-driven focus, and I like his focus actually. He wants to drive the device to usability asap.
<wolfspraul>
nebajoth: I will not take pre-orders, always just creates trouble.
<nebajoth>
ok
<wolfspraul>
access to such early runs is very unusual anyway. many things can go wrong, and for many of those I will take the risk.
<nebajoth>
I think the VJ thing is pure genius
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: i haven't quite figured out what his main motivation is actually. when we discussed the system, he didn't mention VJing a lot. but that doesn't have to mean much.
<wolfspraul>
so we have a rough plan of people who just 'say' they are interested, and we believe them because we know them and we know they are reliable
<nebajoth>
yeah man
<wolfspraul>
I did some math on my end and maybe I need 5-10 boards for people I know.
<nebajoth>
I would totally pay $350-$400 to have one of these
<wolfspraul>
I didn't know wpwrak or nebajoth should be on my list :-)
<nebajoth>
soft upgrades
<nebajoth>
its an investment
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (mm case) seems that the case will be abit expensive, no ? also probably way overengineered for the cosy developer's lab environment ? (as opposed to the harsh on stage world)
<wolfspraul>
nebajoth: yes but it's risky, also for me. I cannot just crank up the volume because some people are excited. it's very risky. if something goes wrong I am dealing with a lot of expensive junk :-)
<nebajoth>
think how aweseome release version 68.3 is going to make my milkmist
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: i probably shouldn't be on the list just yet. rc3 maybe :)
<nebajoth>
then take preorders :P
<wolfspraul>
nebajoth: maybe you think what you can contribute. If you just want to watch development 'live', install updates every few months, I think the RC2 run is too early for you.
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: yes but I didn't even know you are remotely interested, but now I do.
<nebajoth>
well mabe
<wolfspraul>
I just need to have a vague idea who could be interested.
<nebajoth>
maybe
<wolfspraul>
I think the run will be 30-35.
<nebajoth>
so why no mmu?
<wolfspraul>
that already quite risky, but then we could have devices for a number of really great people that can help drive this project forward.
<wolfspraul>
nebajoth: simply nobody has gotten to the MMU yet
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: i would be even extremely interested if (FPGA) synthesis was possible with free tools. we're not there yet. sebastien is contemplating to do a thesis on this, though :)
<wpwrak>
nebajoth: (mmu) wasn't necessary for the VJ app.
<nebajoth>
fpga synthesis
<wolfspraul>
nebajoth: what you can do already today, and what would really really help, is to drive awareness to the Milkymist project
<nebajoth>
programming the fpga I assume?
<wpwrak>
Free fpga synthesis could get very very exciting. imagine being able to load your own hw accelerators into your cpu. need a one-round-of-AES instruction ? just load it. need a really quick arccosh(x)/x ? no problem. etc.
<wolfspraul>
write great blog posts, talk to journalists, get slashdot/engadget/whoever to talk about it
<wolfspraul>
it's a great story, but it needs to be told right
<wolfspraul>
the next ARM/MIPS?
<wolfspraul>
a free CPU?
<wolfspraul>
what is this thing? why should people care?
<nebajoth>
indeed
<wpwrak>
nebajoth: you write the "program" in verilog (a language a bit like C) or vhdl (a language a bit like COBOL), then feed it to a "compiler" that allocates the cells on the chip, connects then, and configures them. this is the synthesis.
<wolfspraul>
this is a free CPU, it needs the help from a lot of free software people, because very few companies will help at the beginning, unlike proprietary CPUs where of course the proprietary companies like more 'open' software, it helps them sell their proprietary IP
<wolfspraul>
Sebastien chose the LattticeMico32 core, so at least he doesn't have to start from zero
<nebajoth>
theres no open tool to do synthesis?
<wolfspraul>
but still, we are quite lonely out there
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: (pr) or make a MM NN. that's something whose reality they can physically perceive :)
<wolfspraul>
well we make Milkymist One
<wolfspraul>
nebajoth: no, maybe first step the xilinx bitstream format would need to be documented
<wpwrak>
(sebastien will probably have a lot of corrections to what i'm writing here ;-)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: there is actually some work on that. dormant at the moment, though. lemme search for the link ...
<wolfspraul>
yes I know
<wolfspraul>
but that works needs to be finished
<nebajoth>
what, so we can reverse engineer it? :P
<nebajoth>
oh
<nebajoth>
are the target fpgas always xilinx?
<nebajoth>
or does everybody use xilinx bitstream format?
<wpwrak>
they support the chip MM is using. so that part may already be solved. not sure if the fpgas's elements are fully characterized, though. (timing and such)
<wpwrak>
nebajoth: i'd be very surprised if there are any compatibility on such things among vendors ;-)
<nebajoth>
ok
<nebajoth>
I'm a total n00b to it
<nebajoth>
so
<nebajoth>
xilinx fpga
<wpwrak>
of course, once you know how to synthesize for one fpga, the next won't be too hard. xilinx seem to be among the easier, do to having a very regular structure.
<nebajoth>
how much do fpgas cost?
<wejp>
depends on how many cells they have
<wolfspraul>
expensive, they are chips with lots of proprietary IP and under relatively little price pressure
<wpwrak>
they're unfortunately very pricy. USD 50 for a really cheap one. the one in MM is about USD 200 in quantities of one piece from digi-key. so probably USD 100 or more for large volumes.
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: how much do you pay for it ?
<wolfspraul>
ca. 40 USD :-)
<wpwrak>
wow
<wolfspraul>
well I explained the whole s-6 situation earlier
<wolfspraul>
it's difficult, so also no reason to blame digikey
<wpwrak>
but mm uses a virtex, no spartan, no ?
<wolfspraul>
ah no
<wolfspraul>
virtex is very expensive
<wolfspraul>
there are even more proprietary IP blocks in virtex
<wolfspraul>
afaik Sebastien knows this better
<nebajoth>
rc1 has a virtex?
<wolfspraul>
no
<wolfspraul>
spartan-6
<wpwrak>
XC4VLX25, according to sebastien's thesis
<wpwrak>
in a 363BGA, that one is USD 211.2 at digi-key (1 unit)
<wpwrak>
no volume discount listed
<wejp>
the new firmware image for the ben looks pretty good, but gmu has been built without FLAC support. this should be changed for the final release. several people already asked about flac support on the ben
<wolfspraul>
I think digikey lists it for ca. 50 USD?
<wolfspraul>
don't know
<wpwrak>
ah, so he switched fgpas. nice.
<wpwrak>
usd 53.94 at digi-key. and they have 546 in stock :)
<wolfspraul>
wejp: do you have commit rights on the projects server? can you help us there? or maybe we write it up in the issue tracker or wishlist on the wiki
<wejp>
wolfspraul, no i don't have commit rights, but sure i can help you there and actually it is very easy
<wolfspraul>
wow, great
<wolfspraul>
do you have an account on projects?
<wejp>
no
<wolfspraul>
hmm
<wolfspraul>
I just found one :-)
<wpwrak>
big chip. 23x23mm. there's one with 324 balls that's smaller. only 15x15.
<wolfspraul>
wejp: there is a 'wejp' user on projects
<wejp>
basically all that needs to be done is add "decoders/flac.so" to the DECODERS_TO_BUILD= line in nanonote.mk, then recompile Gmu
<wejp>
wolfspraul, oh right, sorry
<wejp>
its been a while since i created that account
<wolfspraul>
wejp: I added you as member to both openwrt-xburst and openwrt-packages
<wejp>
okay
<wolfspraul>
so you should be able to commit, and thanks a lot for any fix you can contribute there!
<wolfspraul>
it's really a whole lot of work across the distro/OS, so any bit helps
<wejp>
sure :)
<wolfspraul>
I like FLAC too, let me see what Wikipedia says about the patent situation
<wolfspraul>
I think it's OK, at least there is nobody aggressive enforcing anything...
<wejp>
yes, should definately be okay
<wejp>
they were actually trying not to use any patented stuff when developing FLAC
<wejp>
just like with vorbis
<wolfspraul>
yes, I see it
<wolfspraul>
great!
<wejp>
and both vorbis and flac are maintained by xiph.org
<wpwrak>
hmm they did the latticemico32 port (lm32-nommu) in 2008 but it's still not in mainline.
<wolfspraul>
not much manpower behind all this
<wpwrak>
if the code isn't horrible, it shouldn't need much
<lekernel>
let's say we are contributing to the development of an alternate toolkit that solves many of the problems X has especially on embedded systems
<lekernel>
but if you like X that much, just port it to the milkymist one
<lekernel>
then you'd perhaps have to add a MMU, port linux, fight with GNU toolchain and autocrap problems, etc. etc.
<lekernel>
and in the end it will be fucking slower from a end user perspective
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (ugly lm32) ah, pity. is takeshi working on getting the port into linux mainline ?
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (virtex->spartan) yeah, it's nice to see that this was fairly painless. and it's also a much more affordable chip :)
<wpwrak>
lekernel: (autocrap) there we agree ;-)
<kristianpaul>
no more talks about craping software wpwrak  with lekernel is enought ;)
<larsc>
well, actually usually 'autocrap' solves more problem then it causes
<kristianpaul>
heh
<wpwrak>
larsc: also considering that most of the pre-posix systems it was originally designed have long moved to the graveyards of history ? :)
<larsc>
wpwrak: yes
<larsc>
especially when it comes to crosscompling
<wpwrak>
larsc: hmm, wouldn't a little HOWTO solve this, too ? of course, it may be harder to make people read that one than to cook up something that works with their current version of autotools ...
<larsc>
wpwrak: sure
<zear>
hey guys, who's responsible for the qi hardware wiki?
<zear>
some of jlime dev members have doubts about something, so that's why i think i'm gonna ask the wiki maintainers this question:
<zear>
is it ok to add an article about Jlime in the qi hardware wiki? Jlime is a distro for the nanonote, so i guess it is ok
<zear>
but since some had doubts, i'm asking you guys ;)
<zyth>
zear, well, regestry and add self )
<zear>
zyth, oh i have an account on the wiki for a long time now
<zyth>
so?
<zear>
just some jlime team members raised a discussion that jlime contains non-free codecs (ex. mp3) and qi-hardware might not be legally authorised to put any information about jlime
<zear>
but i doubt this is true
<zear>
wiki is a community based work after all
<zyth>
oh, yeah
<zear>
but it turns out nobody knows about jlime, and features it offers (x11, mplayer, wiki reader, dictionary)
<zear>
so i guess mentioning about jlime might help raise the sells of the nn
<zyth>
ask mirko
<zyth>
nobody seems alive here )
<zear>
yea ;)
<wpwrak>
phew. quite the ordeal to solder this board
<wpwrak>
bah. now that i'm done with the soldering, the sun comes out from behind the clouds.
<lekernel>
wpwrak, no, takeshi is just playing around basically
<lekernel>
he's a researcher, not a pragmatist
<lekernel>
so, if someone could take over, cleanup the code, fix the bugs and get it into mainline that would be nice
<lekernel>
personally I gave up, too much work and too little advantages compared to rtems
<wpwrak>
wonders if lars' fingers are twitching. he's done a lot of upstreaming lately.
<larsc>
does upstream actually support non mmu archs?
<wpwrak>
larsc: yes, e.g., m68knommu
<wpwrak>
larsc: it also shows nicely how one can branch a nommu off a mmu arch (m68k in this case)
<wpwrak>
larsc: there may be more. don't quite know all the exotic ones :)
<larsc>
ok
<lekernel>
btw the uClibc/binutils support is pretty shitty too
<lekernel>
(for the executable loader)
<wpwrak>
lekernel: how fast do you think you could scale that core ? e.g., compared to the 4740, for some random workload
<lekernel>
what's 4740?
<wpwrak>
lekernel: the whole "let's optimize for small" area seems to suffer that problem a bit. uclibc, busybox, dropbear, the various "reduced" shells, etc.
<wpwrak>
the ben's cpu
<lekernel>
well if you use the whole gnu libc it's going to suck too
<lekernel>
ok, well you have the mibench results in my thesis
<lekernel>
just run mibench on the nanonote
<lekernel>
that's the only real way to know
<lekernel>
and fyi the lm32 should run at 800MHz in 90nm
<wpwrak>
lekernel: so you expect it to scale without problems ?
<lekernel>
what do you mean, scale?
<wpwrak>
lekernel: no delay mismatches that are insignificant at low speeds but that matter at high speeds, etc. not sure what kind of problems exactly to expect
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: Brown paper bag time: the VDD net was connected to VBUS, not VDD/VIO. http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/524665f
<lekernel>
it's a fully synchronous design, so no such problems in theory
<wpwrak>
lekernel: kewl. now all wolfgang has to do is find a fab :)
<wolfspraul>
they should just have a HTML 'sanitizer' library in PHP that projects like indefero could quickly pump html through to only leave the wanted features in it
<Snicker843>
hi
<Snicker843>
i want to buy a new computer, but i cant decide if Socket 1366 or 1156 for an i7 ... because 1366 is limited to 1066 mhz RAM, and for the Socket 1156 is no i7 with 3 ghz+ available.
<wpwrak>
hmm. the milkymist should already run circles around the 4720 in terms of memory bandwidth.
<wpwrak>
Snicker843: i think you're not where you think you are :-) this isn't a general hardware discussion channel. we have rather peculiar topics at times :)
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: ah, may I ask you for another USB product ID ? for ben-wpan. 1540 would be good. 154 for the end of 802.15.4, 0 for the first set of devices for that protocol.
<wpwrak>
0x1540, to be precise
<wolfspraul>
sure just do it
<wolfspraul>
we have 65000 of them :-)
<wpwrak>
thanks ! i hope you're keeping track of them :)