2011-02-21

<rjeffries> anyway yes Ben works
<rjeffries> does anyone have a short list of a few programs tuned for this screen size? for example, top is not easy to read ;)\
<rjeffries> ok with help from a magnifier I got it done
<rjeffries> i will do that now
<wpwrak> rjeffries: without this, the kernel will use an extremely conservative memory allocation strategy, which basically means that something like half of your memory will not be used
<wpwrak> rjeffries: did you    echo 1  >/proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory    ?
<rjeffries> oh well
<rjeffries> out of memory kill process 454 hotplug2 score 157 or a child
<rjeffries> wow Ben just burped big time. was in shell, doing nothing, a bunch of stuff flew by
<rjeffries> just used nano editor write a one line document saved it and then cat result. one small step
<rjeffries> from the shell on Ben what is an easy way to change font bigger for my not-so-young eyes?
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: ahm sorry i regret
<rjeffries> kristianpaul how useable is that app
<rjeffries> my son today asked about a single application graphing calculator version. could be successful
<rjeffries> thanks xf can I call you "xf?" xiangfu //smile//
<rjeffries> now we know what xiangful looks like
<rjeffries> when/where was that photo taken?
<rjeffries> thanks
<rjeffries> yhanks all
<rjeffries> ok that's cool. when the image now being tested goes gold I'll reflash
<rjeffries> 2010/11/17
<rjeffries> cat /etc/shell
<rjeffries> now in shell thx
<rjeffries> let me get to shell now
<rjeffries> the bottow row is stardict and explorer
<rjeffries> all I see is applications and settings at top of launcher then two more rows one with dgclock,gmu, nanomap
<rjeffries> on mine that does not see  to work sorry
<rjeffries> ok will try next thx
<rjeffries> at what point wolfspraul
<rjeffries> sorry to bore you guys but as a new Ben user I simply wish to get to a shell, any shell. is there something I can do during the boot sequence maybe?
<rjeffries> s/intp/into
<rjeffries> how does one get to the shell? alt enter escapes from the launcher but dumps me intp dgClock from which ctrl-Q does nor escape
<kristianpaul> i remenber it closed with control + q. may be you typed something else rjeffries ¡
<rjeffries> s/ot/it
<rjeffries> when I use alt enter to exit GMU ot works, but starts dgClock i thought I;d end up in a shell
<rjeffries> s/choid/choir
<rjeffries> roh you are preaching to the choid. I get it. but one can dream for gosh sakes
<rjeffries> wolfspraul have you used dgClock?
<rjeffries> I know that. yeah ok womeone else may however
<rjeffries> roh so what is not to like about Ubertooth? sound sgreat to me
<rjeffries> we will soon have wpwrak's 802.15.4 stuff and 6LoWPAN but if somebody interfaces BT it will be useful option
<rjeffries> roh I understand you
<rjeffries> BY chips are so cheap now
<rjeffries> roh ok, but for an end user having BT so one can hook up keyboard etc would be nice
<rjeffries> need a bit of help: how does one set date time in dgClock
<rjeffries> wpwrak yeah maybe not somthing they wish to advertise. I assume it is si,ilar to promiscious mode with wifi or ethernet
<roh> rjeffries: nah. to paranoid thinking. bt usually means 'less possibilities, higher integration, also sell some fw and a cpu'
<wpwrak> rjeffries: ah, sniff BT. yup, that sounds good. funny TI don't mention that compatibility.
<rjeffries> s.snigg/sniff
<rjeffries> roh agree he has his heart in right place
<rjeffries> s/wpweak/wpwrak  what an  BAD typo
<rjeffries> wpweak well, he says it is used to snigg Bluetooth
<rjeffries> any hints on how to set date and time on dgClock on Ben?

2011-02-19

<rjeffries> is this the HopeRF thingie? 10:17 <kristianpaul> mirko: how are you rfm12b tests going?
<rjeffries> roh so you may know Joachim Steiger? ')
<rjeffries> what is approx size of MM enclosure I have no idea but think it is rather compact??
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: it is posible, you can attach a composite out from a vide camera
<rjeffries> it wpu;d be cool to use a camera attached to MM as input, so e.g. movments on dancefloor feed back and affect the graphn display in a VJ context
<rjeffries> works for me
<roh> rjeffries: careful. the bf20 seems to be the chinese copy of a german machine which is several times as expensive ;)
<rjeffries> roh nice site Google should get a Nobel peace price for providing translation service it rocks
<rjeffries> ok thx
<roh> rjeffries: m21.hyte.de
<roh> rjeffries: not much. its a hackspace, so its mostly hobbyist work
<rjeffries> roh besides making MM cases what other work does your shop do
<roh> rjeffries: we can mill steel and such. up to the size of 2 'bricks'
<rjeffries> heavy duty:
<rjeffries> admitting lack of knowledge: I assume the head moves, the stock is staionery?
<rjeffries> nods not cheap
<rjeffries> roughly what does such a machine cost
<roh> rjeffries: we got a chinese 3 axis machine. i think the taper is 'mk2' or so
<rjeffries> cnc
<rjeffries> roh what kind of cns mill do you have
<wpwrak> rjeffries: the plan is that sharism will manufacture them, probably as soon as possible
<wpwrak> rjeffries: of course, whether this will happen or not can only be told in retrospective :)
<rjeffries> wpwrak once your atben and atUSB designs are locked down, do you know if/when they will be manufactured?
<rjeffries> wpwrak agree re not a pocket device
<rjeffries> good huan interface cheap widely availble
<rjeffries> oh i am headed a differen direction ;) assume external USB connected keyboard\
<rjeffries> oh yes, Ben uses a package that is a bit difficult
<rjeffries> getting rid of built-in keyboard frees several GPIOs
<rjeffries> or maybe the SAKC but rip off FPGA. (I'd thibnk hard about an AVR to provide a bunch of digital and analog i/o
<rjeffries> so is AVT2 a viable starting point?
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (high volume) yes, don't know the cost
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (no case) with the right numbers, everything is possible :)
<rjeffries> so current chip is a high volume product and as I recall costs under $3
<rjeffries> wolfspraul has said around $3 for ingenic
<wpwrak> rjeffries: and then there's a more advanced new chip but its long-term status is still uncertain and it it said to be very different from the chip we currently have
<rjeffries> WARNING rjeffries as exceeded his quota. shutting down his transmissions
<rjeffries> ;)
<rjeffries> do we think Ingenic SOC is in some way more open than say any of several ARM based SOCs?
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (more recent soc) that seems to be difficult. there are some slightly better chips than the 4720, but they're all a sourcing risk
<rjeffries> there could be a viable opportunity for a SONN that leverages a mor recnet Ingenic SOC, has USB Host, adds 2nd 8:10, and is NOT packaged in
<rjeffries> shiny black injection molded case
<rjeffries> yeah prolly not
<rjeffries> continuing
<rjeffries> was it Kicad or not?
<wpwrak> rjeffries: AVT2, yes
<wpwrak> rjeffries: not sure, but i think it wasn't
<rjeffries> wpwrak did or did not we have a early Ben that Carlos team layed out that included USB host and 64MB ram? I am almost postibe qrty 10 were produced\
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (japanese machines) maybe you mean the Sharp Zaurus
<rjeffries> Zaurus yes. pretty cool
<wpwrak> rjeffries: the Openmoko phones used Samsung S3C, ARM
<rjeffries> is that same soc the Freerunner used??
<rjeffries> no keyboard (use yiou fav USB keybaordm even on eof those roll-up thingies
<rjeffries> back to SONN (son of Nanonote)
<rjeffries> SONN(tm)  smiles
<rjeffries> Jornado was another sweet machine as was one of the Japanese devices that was similar\
<rjeffries> today one would use a touch screen
<zrafa> rjeffries: wpwrak: so finally we go to the past in the future :) NN of 2020 should be like HP Jornada 728 (talking just about keyboard, touchscreen, and dimensions :) )
<rjeffries> and is packaged in a new very simple case that is targeted at control applications.
<rjeffries> a parallel effort might involve a Nanonote derivaative that leverages the electronic design, with tweaks and additions,
<rjeffries> on a mainly UNRELATED note
<rjeffries> oQo was so sweet. still availabe?
<rjeffries> wpwrak I agree 1000 percent and realize that Ben is what it is. no problemo
<rjeffries> wpwrak you would be stuck with an akwark keyboard. and weak pointing capabilities
<rjeffries> but the human interface of Ben is so constrained, it can IN MY OPINION never generate high volume sales
<rjeffries> wpwrak I do NOT disagree at all
<rjeffries> it is amazing that it even exists. but it will never do the Tango
<rjeffries> I understand the need to not go head to head with other products but...
<rjeffries> but speaking ONLY for myself, and not having much time with Ben, it is like a Dancing Elephant
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (understand all issues) okay, just didn't know if you had followed that part
<rjeffries> I assume wolfspraul can have as many shells produced as he needs. or he may have 10K he already bought I dunno
<wpwrak> rjeffries: if you look at my counterweight, that's basically how i designed it. started with the scan data for a first rough design, then optimized with trial and error
<rjeffries> I understand all those issues. honest
<wpwrak> rjeffries: yup. that would be a good start
<wpwrak> rjeffries: all we can do is ask wolfgang to ask his business contacts in china to fab a bunch more, but we don't have the CAD data, we can't edit/modify it, and even if we could, changing the tooling would be expensive
<rjeffries> My thought i sto take scan data you created, as inout into a fresh design, new molds
<rjeffries> I understand totally
<rjeffries> I have a talented mechanical engineer friend who has done a number of plastic designs for production in China
<wpwrak> rjeffries: the main problem with the case at present is that we don't have an open process to make it
<rjeffries> I am aware that case is a big hurdle
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (us cost) that would be great. the more data points we have, the better we're prepared to conduct future pcb orders.
<rjeffries> you make a good point
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (larger case) maybe 1 mm more thickness to accommodate a proper USB host receptacle. i really like the current form factor. anything bigger would have to compete in an entirely different class of devices and R&D costs would explode.
<rjeffries> next week or so maybe I learn what USA UBB might cost to mfg.
<rjeffries> smiles sure
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (order from EU) oh, it's not impossible that you'd find competitive prices there. just that specific kind of transaction (10 units from somebody else's order) would be, erm, a little unusual :)
<rjeffries> wpwrak even I am not dumb enough to order PCBs from a fab in Europe\
<rjeffries> Tuxbrain I was trying to be funny, Davod now controls global UBB market
<rjeffries> wpwrak if there is ever a follow-on to Ben, my opinion is a new larger case will be essential
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (ubb factory) you mean you asked the spanish pcb fab to produce 10 units for you ? or do you mean you ordered ten from tuxbrain-the-company ?
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (grind down a finger) yeah, the keyboard could use some improving. layout and maybe also on the haptic side. i hope we'll get a chance to do that.
<rjeffries> am in main GMU screen, would like to get to a shell, not clear how to do that
<zrafa> rjeffries: I guess that there is some way to exit from applications and coming back to menu
<rjeffries> wpwrak I sent email to UBB factory in Spain and told hime I'll order a 10-pack. Maybe I'll become hos USA distibutor, I dunno
<rjeffries> I am glad I have a good shop. O need to take a few sips of whisky, and go to grunder and grind down a finger for the cute litt;e Ben keyboard. I hope it is blood-resistant
<rjeffries> power button is my friend
<wpwrak> rjeffries: let's say that the user experience could often take some inspirations from apple ;-)
<rjeffries> Ben is like dungeons and dragons game: you are in a cave with many twisty passags
<rjeffries> it's all good I am sure
<rjeffries> now in settings do not know how to escape\
<rjeffries> found ;)
<rjeffries> kristianpaul okgounf that ESC escapes thedgclock
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: you should read this http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Applications
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: alt + enter (exit gmu)
<rjeffries> well powering off then on works
<rjeffries> I am in GMU do not know how to exit
<rjeffries> if one is in a Ben application, is there a key to exit and retuen to launcher?
<wpwrak> rjeffries: i thought the search did span days ?
<rjeffries> wpwral said sed ,ight be a solution, That's eaht he sed
<rjeffries> wpwrak David sent me email. irc logs are great. I wish there was a toll to search acroos ,ultiple lohs, e.g. most recent N days.
<wpwrak> rjeffries: yes, i think he has sent the order. didn't he mention it here ?
<rjeffries> wpwrak I assume tuxbrain  tuxbrain_away is asleeo. do you know ih he has pulled triger and made firm UBB order?

2011-02-18

<rjeffries> smiles
<rjeffries> if I go forward (and who knows?) the two versions should look different, green vs blue or red or whatever
<rjeffries> tuxbrain tuxbrain_away what color will your UBB pcbs be?
<rjeffries> wpwrak I figured as much
<wpwrak> rjeffries: the fab should deliver them pre-cut or nearly pre-cut (i.e, easy to remove from the board)
<rjeffries> I assume "no" bit worth noodling. i actually think that is the hardest part, no?
<rjeffries> thinking out loud, what if we buy panels of UBB is there a reasonable way to cut the UBB parts
<rjeffries> but if he is too busy maybe I do it
<rjeffries> wpwrak I've asked Doug what he would charge to put together bid package
<wpwrak> rjeffries: sounds good. now let's see what you get :)
<rjeffries> wpwrak you have mail
<rjeffries> s/lexx/less
<rjeffries> OMG I need yo write More, listen LEXX
<wpwrak> rjeffries has been quite silent lately. i take this as a good sign. maybe he's busy playing with his "new" ben :)
<tuxbrain_away> rjeffries:(fab qty) nop, they will run a 528 run,not 1000, but on second batch a lot of initial cost will not have to be payed again so first batch is expensive than all the rest.
<rjeffries> [askshimself, why the hell did I even THINK about doing this???]
<rjeffries> Icertainly understand that standard v-scorinbg is a non starter
<rjeffries> yup that worries me. I wonder if the physical dimension spec is stated as clearly as it must be
<wpwrak> rjeffries: yeah, almost everything is more complex than UBB ;-) just be careful about the cutting of the board. that's the hairy bit.
<rjeffries> also we worked with him when I was at the company I worked at for 8 years. he is a known quantity amd reliable
<rjeffries> the guy I plan to go through (as my interface to fab) has done multiple fabs for a good friend, those are far more complex than UBB
<wpwrak> rjeffries: so you don't need to plan for an "open loop" process. that would be needed if you went to china (well, unless you know the place you're dealing with well and have established good communication)
<rjeffries> ok
<wpwrak> rjeffries: no, what i mean is that you can expect the pcb fab to communicate any small problem to you. they will factor some communication overhead into their process.
<rjeffries> wha made you think it will go to China?
<rjeffries> wpwrak not sure why you think this UBB fab would go offshore. I expect in these small qty it will be local. However, if specs are solid and venodr quality is known to my middleman, then risk of China fab seems ok.
<wpwrak> rjeffries: but i'm kinda curious where this will lead. may learn a thing or two :)
<wpwrak> rjeffries: i think you underestimate the extra value you pay for when producing things at home (as opposed to the far east) ;-)
<rjeffries> I am almost (not quite) ready to get a US quote, whuch muht be interesting. I would assume my qupute and yours should be similar price plus or minus 5 percent
<rjeffries> you may be better off ordering the 1,000 have they quoted prices at quantity 1,000 ?
<rjeffries> tuxbrain_away they will run 1,000 all at same time. after you oredr the first 500 they'll sell the second 500 at a lower price.

2011-02-17

<rjeffries> tuxbrain_away is the 35 Euro price valid for order from USA? for qty 10. Paypal or credit card?
<rjeffries> status.net <--correction
<rjeffries> mth understood irc is great for a focused community such as qi-hqardware offers
<mth> rjeffries: I'll remember identi.ca, but so far I didn't feel a need for microblogging
<rjeffries> statys.net is the software under the identi.ca service
<rjeffries> barthbes identi.ca as a service continues 140 cahr BUT status.net provides complete flexibility to set your own limit
<rjeffries> I use smuxi
<rjeffries> tab key?
<bartbes> rjeffries: indenti.ca is twitter-like, right? so 140 chars and stuff
<tuxbrain_away> rjeffries:  and all ... https://www.tuxbrain.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1880
<rjeffries> diaspora is a different recipie for the same dish. anybody in the open source world belongs on http://identi.ca free and libre
<rjeffries> mth bartbes I was a very early adopter of identi.ca (subscriber #141) in fact I think I was the first to sign up who was not part of the alpha test.
<rjeffries> barthes identi.ca was first open twitter-a-like The founder is a GREAT open source guy
<bartbes> rjeffries: you should totally use diaspora
<rjeffries> am I the only person on Twitter in this merry band? @ronkjeffries also http://identi.ca/rkj
<zrafa> rjeffries: if they/those download copyritght material or publish them, things like that. But I have not read the law
<zrafa> rjeffries: short summary: no sure if this is a short summary but the idea would be to control the downloads, so spain could shut down users from isp, web sites, etc..
<rjeffries> I mean the stupid law?
<rjeffries> I will tweet about this in a minute. what is a VERY short summary of law?
<tuxbrain_away> rjeffries: even the predident of the spanish film academy is against that but well politicians only care on money .
<rjeffries> cool tuxbrain_away your URL is????
<tuxbrain_away> rjeffries: today
<rjeffries> zafra what is a one sentence summary? it looks aweful and stupid and crazy and not practical to enforce. what were they thinking?
<zrafa> rjeffries: http://espana.barrapunto.com/article.pl?sid=11/02/15/2038212
<rjeffries> when does this go live on tuxbrainaway web shop
<rjeffries> congratulations tuxbrain_away you da  man
<rjeffries> whay qty did you order?
<rjeffries> zafra you are kidding, right? I mean, wtf
<rjeffries> tuxbrain_away when do you get UBB pcbs back?
<tuxbrain_away> rjeffries: only partially, finishing all mambo jambo to let people do UBB preorders
<rjeffries> I like how this tuxbrain_away tuxbrain David thinks. how about that?
<zrafa> rjeffries: he is in spaim and their nice govs do not let him download stuff anymore :(
<rjeffries> tuxbrain_away I mean
<rjeffries> tuxbrain are you here

2011-02-16

<rjeffries> wpwrak guess what? the Been on my desk tips backwards it will not sit up straight. Imagine that!
<rjeffries> kyak thanks for the driver URL I have downloaded it. need to sort out the manual instal procedure. THANKS
<rjeffries> kyak yes mass storage is all easy peasy lemon squeezy
<bartbes> rjeffries: actually
<kyak> rjeffries: a hint: you will need to download this driver here: http://www.thesycon.de/eng/usb_cdcecm.shtml to be able to talk to Ben from windows
<rjeffries> this is likely a solved problem.
<rjeffries> kyak there must be two DOZEN linux small devces that talk to Windows.
<kyak> rjeffries: and there are ten DOZEN of devices who don't know a damn thing about linux
<kyak> rjeffries: hey, don't take it personally.. i'm just trying to say that hardly someone worked into that direction
<rjeffries> dvdk JeeLabs is an interesting outfit, cgeck it out. Very smart guy, TOTALLY oen
<rjeffries> if you only target True Belivers..., well what argue
<rjeffries> kyak thank you for telling me why I do not want a Nanonote to attach as a USB gadet to windows.
<rjeffries> kyak you think wrong in my opinon
<rjeffries> someone who has a nice big lappie might enjoy a $99 fill linux Ben that he can tarnsfer files back and forth
<rjeffries> kyak so nobody HERE cares about windows. Understood
<rjeffries> that has to have been done N times, so many personal nav devices use linux but attache to Windows. TomTom is
<rjeffries> wpwrak I am not at anywhere near the competence of others developers, and I spend my time in other wasy.
<rjeffries> I doubt very much this requires a new driver.
<wpwrak> rjeffries: ah, and what prevent you from becoming a developer ? :)
<rjeffries> wpwrak I am not a developer. if only developers are welcome here I have come to the wrong place
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (windows) since you seem to care about windows, that sounds like a nice development project for you :)
<wpwrak> rjeffries: (sample) maybe. would depend on what the fab house charges.
<rjeffries> he uses Tcl a LOT
<rjeffries> dvdl Tk gui for TCL would be very desirable on Ben. especially in context of Ben as mnaster node for JeeLabs stuff
<rjeffries> wolfspraul using Ben attached to Windows is not a crazy idea. please comment
<rjeffries> does anybody have a thought on what it would take so Ben can be seen as a disk by Windows? That must be available
<rjeffries> high probability it is ok, if yes they ship rest
<rjeffries> if no they adjuuts process and re-run
<rjeffries> by the way the consuktant (from a medium size and sucessful telecom company) suggested we request a small "first artcle" rin to check design
<rjeffries> I think for UBB they would run 1,000 or 500, set them aside, ship us say qty 10 to cehck
<wpwrak> rjeffries: yup. contrary to popular belief, there is R&D in china - and they also need small prototype quantities :)
<rjeffries> For say 1,000 UBBs it may or may nor make sense that China fab wins
<wpwrak> rjeffries: alright, then you have a choice there
<rjeffries> wpwrak the people I use do LOTS of stuff in chana, and shipping is no big deal
<rjeffries> I don't care where PCBs are fabbed
<rjeffries> at some point being able to attache Ben to windows would be A Good Idea. easy way to move files back and forth
<rjeffries> data point re Ben: plugged it into a Vista laptop. Windows asks for a driver disk for "Ethernet Gadget"
<rjeffries> we know that China would be cheap, but volume of UBB demand does not warrnet going to China
<rjeffries> tuxbrain is far ahead of me. my effort is prolly at best a crosscheck to see how USA prices compare with EU prices
<rjeffries> kristianpaul No, I have an almost final PCB fab spec, should be done in a day or so. then send a few docments to a PCB fab expert and ask for quotes
<rjeffries> kristianpaul I like how you think actually I am sure I could copy amd paste a first design, then have expert clean it up. no problemo. but is that where I wish to invest my time?
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: you aalready made it, right ? :D
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: sure UBB will help a lot
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: i'm not EE either but people can read, think, do, and learn those days easilly :-)
<rjeffries> I will soon be shopping for a private islam]nd with all the profits
<rjeffries> there is a global market demand for UBB that approaches maybe... 75 UBB boards
<rjeffries> could use UBB at first to connect to say a JeeLabs module, yes indeed
<rjeffries> in their sleep.
<rjeffries> kristianpaul I do not have EE myself. I know people who could hack out a little ethernet addon
<rjeffries> maybe one of the 5,000 cheap tablets...
<rjeffries> then the question becomes, is that investment a better idea that using some other mass produced gadget
<rjeffries> that does NOt use the current case. "Tiny" is not high on my desired funcy=tionality list
<rjeffries> after spending time with Ben, my thought veer toward how practical it might be for somone other than sharism to do a derivative
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: but hey man, it is posible !!!
<rjeffries> understood
<rjeffries> kristianpaul
<rjeffries> maybe wpwrak will design an ethernet 8:10 card. but would it need it;s own power supply?
<kristianpaul> rjeffries: If you can hookup a SPI like ethernet card to the nanonote you have your tiny freedombox
<rjeffries> smiles

2011-02-15

<wpwrak> rjeffries: i don't know the right keywords for the other parameters, so i don't try to specify them. chances are that they'd only cause confusion or (if i don't guess the "normal range" right) may accidentally put the board into an unusual category with high production cost
<rjeffries> ok back later
<rjeffries> well the big boys spec it so I will as well. the fab must work to a final dimension for our buy off
<rjeffries> so you would say 0.85 mm plus 0.10 minus 0.15 ????
<rjeffries> wpwrak I only do this for you my friend LOL
<rjeffries> is this total thickness or tolerence ? 14:58 <wpwrak> (thickness) something like 0.7-0.95 mm.