apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.2.1; 2.1.5; 2.0.0-p643: https://ruby-lang.org || Paste code on https://gist.github.com
<keltim> yeah I can keep any eye on it I suppose. Their schedule is quick, to say the least
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<keltim> I'm not sure ruby-lang will continue to provide security fixes for those either ... is there a policy about that?
<darix> keltim: that's why it is often a good idea to investigate early when they introduce a newer ruby version if you can switch onto it
<darix> keltim: 1.8 and 1.9 are both out already
<darix> keltim: the dates get announce on www.ruby-lang.org
<darix> keltim: sles/rhel/centos/Debian flavors will of course still do backports for security fixes
<darix> so amazon might do similar
<keltim> yes they are all great about that
<keltim> well, amazon will pull sec. updates from whatever release is current, no matter what you have.
<jhass> and security maintenance for Ruby 2.0 will end in late february 2016
<darix> jhass: when i started i did updates for 1.4 still :p
<keltim> I don't think most people realize that. or maybe they don't care.
<darix> keltim: many people might not even care if the gems that they use are updated ;)
<darix> not to mention many gem authors dont follow proper security release policies either
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<keltim> but I am more comfortable with a normal linux distro that gives you long term security fixes
<keltim> haha the devs where i work used to let all the gems upgrade, pulling the latest right from rubygems.org, right into the stack ... crazy
<jhass> I'm not sure I like all that backporting
<darix> jhass: if newer ruby(gem) releases would be just drop in, the distros would happily update :)
<jhass> the patches usually aren't written against the versions they're applied against in those scenarios
<darix> jhass: yes we distro maintainer just blindly apply it without testing!
<jhass> did you ever count the number of patches Debian applies to OpenSSL?
<keltim> jhass, exactly, that's why it best to use the distros version and let them do all that. They do a good job, even if upstream has abandoned it
<darix> jhass: those patches arent there because they were bored.
<keltim> debian does an unbelieveable amount of backporting patches for security
<darix> jhass: if a packager can have a package without any patches they will happily do so
<jhass> I'm not saying there's no testing, but there isn't as good understanding as the original authors have
<darix> luckily ruby upstream is pretty nice on accepting patches that make packager work easier
<jhass> and security maintenance isn't dropped by upstream because yolo
<darix> jhass: depends on how much involved people are.
<darix> jhass: also how evolved the patch/Security issue is.
<jhass> dunno, I just feel a lot more comfortable to run software as close to upstream as possible
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<jhass> which is why I try to run arch on servers where I can, their packaging for a really large part is just wrapping up official build instructions
<darix> jhass: if your employer gives you the time to constantly do the changes needed for this, you are lucky.
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<darix> we are similar lucky. but not everyone is
<darix> and it would really help if things are drop-in updates
<keltim> well resources ... very few orgs have the resources to devote to properly maintaining a ruby version themselves, I can't imagine
<darix> that's why i like the work from the kepler project for lua
<darix> they have addons for lua that will provide wrappers for the old API
<darix> so if you cant upgrade the whole project to lets say the 5.3 api
<darix> their wrapper will give you the 5.1 api stuff that was dropped
<darix> that way you get people off lua 5.1 without having to go through the whole porting process right away
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<ohsix> even if it's done in small pieces, people still don't migrate :p
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<darix> ohsix: right
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<darix> ohsix: because the bean counter says "that doesnt give us extra income. do features"
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<keltim> darix, if I compile ruby with prefix=/opt/ruby1.9, and then run ruby from a symlink /opt/ruby, that won't cause any issues, will it?
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<darix> if nothing on your system links libraries in /opt/ruby it would work yes
<darix> (i mean links currently)
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<darix> keltim:
<darix> keltim: ^
<keltim> thanks, just making sure, didn't think so
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<auzty> any ideas why my ruby console (from irb) can't do autocomplete?
<auzty> i installed from rvm
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<keltim> jeez these gems are taking forever to install, even with --no-ri --no-rdoc ... what could be wrong here? straceing the process shows it is doing very little
<keltim> and consuming 100% cpu
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<darix> auzty: require 'irb/completion'
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<SylarRuby> Hey all. Does devise has a user id in the Model or I have to manually add one?
<ljarvis> SylarRuby: primary keys are added automatically unless you specify otherwise
<SylarRuby> ljarvis: thanks
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<SylarRuby> Is there a good read on how to integrate Devise with Linked in?
<SylarRuby> Or is it Devise and OAuth?
<SylarRuby> OmniAuth*
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<darix> SylarRuby: omniauth/devise one of them might have a plugin for this
<SylarRuby> darix: I'll look around. Thanks
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<shevy> hi Mon_Ouie!
<Mon_Ouie> 'alut
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<nil> hey guys
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<jhass> hey Guest22748
<Guest22748> I've been looking into Ruby and it feels nice and high-level,
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<Guest22748> but the concept of 'blocks' has got me a little confused.
<Guest22748> namely: how are 'blocks' any different from ordinary lambdas?
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<Guest22748> (and why the odd syntax with pipes?)
<jhass> Guest22748: they're closures, you can reference the scope you define them in inside
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<Guest22748> okay, so why not call them closures? :)
<jhass> because matz, because ruby is almost 25 years old by now and because!
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<jhass> ;P
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<Guest22748> fair enough. what about the pipes? what's wrong with, say, "block(arg){ arg.upcase }" instead of "{ |arg| arg.upcase }"?
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<jhass> both are valid and doing different things
<Guest22748> oh?
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<jhass> block(arg) { arg.upcase } is calling the method block passing the argument arg and the block { arg.upcase }
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<jhass> but it really boils down to the same argument as before
<Guest22748> so it's basically arbitrary.
<jhass> there's not much point in arguing about the fundamental syntax of a language designed 25 years ago
<jhass> yes, as arbitrary as every other language
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<jhass> it's just a bit different from what you're used to
<Guest22748> point, but isn't there something extra-arbitrary about "{ |arg| arg.upcase }"? maybe it's just me.
<jhass> that feeling will go away if you continue to use ruby for a bit ;)
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<Guest22748> on a related note, can you use macros or something like define-syntax in Ruby?
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<jhass> rubys metamodel is completely runtime defined, introspectable and modifyable
<jhass> in fact you can see things like class, module & def as syntax sugar for some method calls
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<jhass> class Foo -> Foo = Class.new; module Foo -> Foo = Module.new; class Foo; def bar; end; end; -> Foo = Class.new { define_method(:bar) { } }
<Guest22748> impressive. can you point me to a detailed discussion of this?
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<jhass> mh, no not really, I guess the better books will cover this but I learned it through reading code and IRC mostly personally ;)
<Guest22748> hm... well, what do I type into irb to see how class works internally?
<jhass> I'm not sure what you mean by that
<Guest22748> okay, what did you do to get the above line about "class"? :)
<jhass> I typed it?
<Guest22748> ah okay, I thought that was from a library or something.
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<Guest22748> so can I ask Ruby to show me how a certain sugared expression is transformed, like the ones you listed?
<Guest22748> can I desugar("class Foo") somehow?
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<jhass> I don't think so no
<jhass> I simplified a bit, class and module also reopen already defined classes/modules
<Guest22748> yeah, I've seen examples of that.
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<keltim> jeez these gems are taking forever to install, even with --no-ri --no-rdoc ... what could be wrong here? straceing the process shows it is doing very little, just processing the index ... any ideas?
<jhass> "forever"?
<keltim> 20 min. to install rails
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<jhass> first try?
<keltim> tried many times with various settings, but to no avail
<jhass> tried running with --verbose or whatever it was?
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<keltim> yeah, it spits out all the web redirects and so forth, then is quiet for the duration until it actually gets to installing the gem. strace indicates it is processing the index, but the process (and children)
<keltim> consumes 95-100% cpu the whole time
<darix> keltim: something is broken
<keltim> has to be
<jhass> ruby -v / gem -v ?
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<keltim> ruby 1.9.3p551 (2014-11-13 revision 48407) [x86_64-linux] / 1.8.23.2
<jhass> both is a bit old
<jhass> do you have the option to update?
<keltim> well it is for 1.9, can't do anything about that at the moment
<keltim> is that gem version old for 1.9?
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<jhass> the latest rubygems version still works wtih 1.9, so it's certainly old
<jhass> gem update --system might be worth a shot
<keltim> I'm preparing an image for a prod instance, I can't be cavalier about all that ... this works fine on our regular hand compiled ruby, currently using the amazon linux package
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<jhass> well, both is out of security maintenance even, so can't give much support for that ancient stuff ;)
<keltim> strace show it doing this over and over ... http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=b2WBvP8q
<keltim> wait no it is cycling through dependencies there
<keltim> or it is doing something with every gem in the index? I see things that aren't deps of rails ... I don't think
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<keltim> well gotta go
<jhass> sprockets certainly is
<jhass> and I'm pretty sure that's one of the processes recent rubygems versions have improved quite a bit
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<Guest22748> I've been reading up on classes and it looks like BasicObject, Object, Module and Class all depend circularly on each other.
<Guest22748> for example:
<Guest22748> Object.is_a? Class => true Class.is_a? Object => true
<Guest22748> how can this be? surely there's some magic going on with these built-in classes.
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<tek0011> hey all. im very new to ruby. how can I split (or any method) this string, so that it will only and always return the first domain without any other characters leading or trailing? string = ["domain1.test", "domain2.test", "domain3.test"] - Final return should be domain1.test
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<Guest22748> I'm not sure about this, but don't you mean string[0]?
<jhass> Guest22748: yes, the root of the meta model is special cased in the interpreter
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<Guest22748> what is "the root" of the metamodel?
<jhass> haven't seen a language where that's not the case at some point though ;)
<Guest22748> BasicObject?
<jhass> the relation between Class, Module and BasicObject
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<jhass> >> Class.class
<eval-in_> jhass => Class (https://eval.in/306482)
<jhass> things like that
<Guest22748> so all three of those are special, is that what we're saying?
<tek0011> djellemah__: yes, I have that up at all times. right now Im running str.split(",")[0] which does remove everything after , - and i could probably add another method to remove the [ and " characters, but i figured someone here would have a better way
<jhass> Guest22748: yeah
<Guest22748> hmm
<Guest22748> and then Object can be defined in the std library in terms of BasicObject?
<jhass> I'd say so
<Guest22748> okay.
<jhass> there's the special case of it being the default parent class
<Guest22748> uh, do you mean BasicObject or Object?
<jhass> Object
<jhass> >> class Foo; end; Foo.superclass
<eval-in_> jhass => Object (https://eval.in/306483)
<jhass> >> class Foo < BasicObject; end; Foo.superclass
<eval-in_> jhass => BasicObject (https://eval.in/306484)
<jhass> though conceptually you could view that as a default argument to Class::new
<Guest22748> I see, so Object's magic too.
<jhass> yeah, there used to be no BasicObject, so there's traces left
<tek0011> basically I understand what to do, but am at the point in ruby where I want to start learning shorter quicker routes. This is what I have right now, which works, but is it considered an ugly hack? split(",")[0].delete "\[\""
<Guest22748> and you're not supposed to touch the BasicObject class unless you're doing Ruby core development, is that right?
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<jhass> tek0011: you could write a regexp I guess
<Drafyr> Hi, I was looking for some help with RGSS3, regarding RPG Maker VX Ace.
<jhass> Guest22748: BasicObject got introduced as a more barebone version of Object, it's handy for writing transparent proxy objects without having to undefine all of Object's methods
<djellemah__> tek0011: Assuming you mean string = '["domain1.test", "domain2.test", "domain3.test"]' it looks a lot like JSON or YAML. So you could also use those parsers.
<jhass> tek0011: actually where does that string come from? it looks like an array?
<Drafyr> Does anyone know of an RGSS3 scripting help IRC, or someone who can help me?
<Guest22748> oh, I get it! so it's purely a way to tell the interpreter "I'm defining a class here but I don't want any of the predefined stuff that comes with Object"?
<djellemah__> Guest22748: yup. BasicObject is also useful for DSLs and delegators.
<tek0011> jhass: here is the full snippet of code - https://gist.github.com/anonymous/61573ba9c0a473030922 - it's just being converted to a string
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<jhass> tek0011: small tip: gist has syntax highlighting, just choose a filename ending in .rb
<Drafyr> Anyone? =(
<tek0011> jhass: oooh nice. did not know. ty :)
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<jhass> Drafyr: /msg alis help
<tek0011> jhass: thanks. thats fancy - https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6b050897520a80838cf0
<jhass> tek0011: so it's no defined format I guess?
<tek0011> ya
<jhass> dnssuffix[/[^\["]+/] I'd go with something like that until it breaks I guess
<tek0011> jhass: thanks. Ill build off that. starting to learn different languages, i have major issues understanding regex right now :(
<jhass> rubular.com and regular-expressions.info are great resources
<tek0011> yes rubular is awesome. i think i spent like 4 hours on it on friday trying to do one single thing lol.
<tek0011> jhass: thanks again m8
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<jhass> yw
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<ericwood> rubular is a life-saver
<ericwood> another cool utility site worth mentioning: strftimer.com
<canton7> nice!
<canton7> of course, it's only approximate
<canton7> but it seems to do a pretty good job
<canton7> well, it thinks 3/30 2015 == "%-d/%-m %Y"
<canton7> so maybe not *that* good :P
<Guest22748> I see that both "undefined_name" and "@@undefined_name" raise NameErrors, but "@undefined_name" evaluates to nil and "@undefined_name = 2" evaluates to 2.
<Guest22748> why is this?
<Guest22748> (I mean at the top level, not inside a class)
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<Dysp> Yaw. Ruby newb here. I am returning a value of false/true with <%= question.correct %>. How can I make it display one image if true and another if false?
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<rob_> Guest22748: i would recommend you watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2sgQ38UDVY
<Guest22748> thanks!
<rob_> Dysp: if / else
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<Dysp> Yes, I figured that. But I am so newb I don't even know how to do that properly :D
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<Dysp> And what is the difference between <%= and <% ?
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<rob_> Dysp: sounds like you need something like: http://www.stuartellis.eu/articles/erb/
<Dysp> I think you are right. Thx!
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<Dysp> Cant do this: if <%= question.correct %> = true
<Dysp> What can I do?
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<tobiasvl> what would that do?
<ljarvis> <% if question.correct %> ... <% else %> ... <% end %>
<tobiasvl> Dysp: first of all, = is assignment, not comparison …
<Dysp> Hm
<Dysp> Me so newbie. Great fun. 10/10 would ask again
<tobiasvl> hehe. read up on ruby before erb maybe ;)
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<Dysp> I learning by doing.
<Dysp> And programming in general is so new to me.
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<ljarvis> please dont use pastebin
<Dysp> Okay, what then?
<tobiasvl> see topic
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<ljarvis> question: why is the file extension .rb when that's not Ruby, it's ERB?
<Dysp> Okay, you are confusing me more than you are helping, bro.
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<Dysp> ATM, I get no errors, however it doesn't write neither true nor false.
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<ljarvis> Dysp: how are you running it?
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<Dysp> Its running in an .erb file, of course.
<ljarvis> running where? how?
<Dysp> Local server
<oddmunds> rails?
<Dysp> yes
<ljarvis> apache? nginx? rack?
<Dysp> ljarvis: I dont know.
<ljarvis> Dysp: are you trying to learn Ruby or trying to build something with Rails?
<Dysp> ljarvis: But if you want to talk cool words, lets talk neuroanatomy. I've always been fascinated by the route of nervus opticus to tractus opticus ending in nucleus geniculatum lateralis. The histology there is beautiful as fuck. Gotta love thalamus.
<Dysp> Im learning Ruby by building something with rails.
<ljarvis> I'm trying to help. The words are relevant to the discussion
<ljarvis> join #rubyonrails
<Dysp> But this is an easy question you can easily answer.
<tobiasvl> what's the question again?
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<Dysp> Its not complicated at all. I just don't understand basic programming.
<tobiasvl> oh, it doesn't print anything
<ljarvis> ok, the reason it doesn't do anything is because it's evaluating erb. Puts does nothing in an erb template
<Dysp> Sweet. Nice.
<ljarvis> Right, and I'm saying if you don't understand basic programming you're starting in the wrong place
<Dysp> That's how I am doing it.
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<tobiasvl> why introduce other factors like erb and rails if you're trying to learn ruby?
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<apeiros> Dysp: also ljarvis actually gave you the response immediately
<apeiros> 16:25 ljarvis: <% if question.correct %> ... <% else %> ... <% end %>
<tobiasvl> learn ruby first, then add other components so you know how each works
<apeiros> unless I'm missing a follow up question
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<Dysp> tobiasvl: I am not trying to learn ruby. I am trying to be able to build stuff - and learning meanwhile. So, I am learning ruby, rails, css and html at the same time by building something. I am very bad at reading programming stuff and just understanding it. I need to learn by doing.
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<tobiasvl> <Dysp> Im learning Ruby by building something with rails.
<tobiasvl> but OK
<rob_> you're also bad at listening to advice
<Dysp> It seems.
<ljarvis> learn Ruby by building something with Ruby
<Dysp> Thx for your help.
<tobiasvl> anyway, this is a ruby channel. we don't necessarily know or support other stuff here, like rails or erb
<ljarvis> pleasure
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<apeiros> since it's opinion time, let me add one: nothing wrong with learning all those things at once. but be aware that that's *a lot* and that you can't make assertions yourself about what's easy and what's not. yes, it may be trivial - *if* you have the knowledge framework to embed it in.
<Dysp> Okay, if you were to become a doctor, I would advice you to take basic sciences first to understand the fundamentals behind medical practice and how the body works. If you just want to know how to take blood samples (please dont), I would only have to teach the anatomy of the arm and the basics of the procedure.
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<apeiros> Dysp: you're again making assumptions about something you say yourself that you're new to it.
<Dysp> I have no desire of becoming a programmer or anything else. I wish only to know what is needed to create a project I have in mind.
<ljarvis> hire a programmer
<rob_> ...using programming!
<apeiros> you do not know what's simple in programming and what's not.
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<rob_> it's like saying you dont want to learn french you just want to talk to french people in french
<apeiros> Dysp: obligatory: https://xkcd.com/1425/
<Dysp> Programmers too expensive in my country and I am broke as fuck ;)
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<tobiasvl> what are you making?
<Dysp> Simple multiple choice quiz.
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<Dysp> For new students to practice former exams
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* apeiros is amazed that there's still schools using multiple choice quizzes as exam format
<Dysp> It's a minimal part of the exam.
<Dysp> And not really a multiple choice now I think about it. Its more true/false
<rob_> Dysp: if you only care about having the end result, why not use one of the many online multiple choice services available? i think you can even make them for free in google docs
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<Dysp> I also want to learn from the experience.
<Dysp> But you are right
<Dysp> I just know how I learn and that is learning by doing and I therefore need a project to motivate me into learning. I would like to expand later on which would cover different exams and so on.
<rob_> learning is good, the quickest path to learning how to do what you want is to first learn the basics of ruby
<Dysp> But, well, thank for your help.
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<Dysp> And I have tried. I just learn very badly by reading/doing trivial stuff
<rob_> the key is to persist
<Dysp> And that is what I am doing ;)
<Dysp> But this conversation is a beautiful example of the Donning-Kruger effect
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<Dysp> "Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others."
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<Guest22748> rob_: wow, this talk really helped. I haven't watched all of it, but I'll take a stab at my own question now:
<rob_> Guest22748: cool :)
<Guest22748> is "@undefined = 2" legal at the top level because self is pointing to "main" which is by definition an Object, and so it can have instance variables?
<rob_> yep
<Guest22748> awesome.
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<Guest22748> it looks like Range#each can take a block but cannot take a lambda. why not?
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<havenwood> >> (1..4).each &->(n) { p n + 42 }
<eval-in_> havenwood => 43 ... (https://eval.in/306533)
<jhass> all methods that take a block, can be passed a lambda/proc with &foo
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<Guest22748> oh, I missed the ampersand sign.
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<ethicalbeast> really
<centrx> ?
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<Guest22748> jhass: the way you explained BasicObject helped a lot, but now I don't understand why this is true:
<Guest22748> Object.methods == BasicObject.methods # => true
<jhass> you want to compare instance_methods
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<jhass> >> Object.method(Object.methods.first).owner
<eval-in_> jhass => Class (https://eval.in/306556)
<jhass> >> BasicObject.method(BasicObject.methods.first).owner
<eval-in_> jhass => Class (https://eval.in/306557)
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<Guest22748> ah, okay
<Guest22748> b = BasicObject; o = Object; b.instance_methods == o.instance_methods # => false
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<jhass> yup
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<jhass> >> (BasicObject.instance_methods(false) & Object.instance_methods(false)) == BasicObject.instance_methods
<eval-in_> jhass => false (https://eval.in/306559)
<jhass> mmh
<jhass> ah right, nvm that one :P
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<morton> hi, anyone here
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<havenwood> morton: hi
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<jhass> no, we're all just your imagination
<jhass> on the plus side you can ask your imagination questions and it will answer!
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<morton> hi
<jhass> hi
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<havenwood> hi
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<morton> i want to write age of empires 2 in ruby
<morton> how
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<jhass> start with age of empires 1
<morton> HAHAHAHA
<jhass> then bump the version
<morton> LOL
<morton> how is tk
<morton> hard or easy compared to most gui
<morton> and performance
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<jhass> no idea, try for yourself?
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<morton> has anyone tryed gui wutgh tk?
<morton> with*
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<morton> pls, i dont want shoes
* pipework pokes jhasselhoff
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<DCameronMauch> got anyone out there who knows a lot about FactoryGirl?
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<pipework> DCameronMauch: !ask
<pipework> Dammit, no helpa.
<DCameronMauch> got a weird problem
<pipework> DCameronMauch: Just ask your qestion. :D
<pipework> question ugh
<DCameronMauch> have an activerecord model with an after_commit hook
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<DCameronMauch> if I create the model in the console the usual way (like User.create), the callback get fired
<DCameronMauch> but FactoryGirl seems to be creating these objects in such a way that there is no transaction, thus the after_commit never gets fired
<DCameronMauch> this is outside rspec, so no transactional fixtures involved
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<DCameronMauch> I can't seem to create an object by hand without the hook getting fired
<DCameronMauch> which is what I want
<pipework> maybe*
<pipework> Same kind of idea?
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<DCameronMauch> Hmm. I think the problem they are describing is related to transactional fixtures, which we are not using
<pipework> Anyways, the source to factory_girl is pretty easy to read, I bet you could find the stuff that actually creates objects and see if it already has or would be easy to add transactions.
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<Cages> Hi.
<Cages> In my mac terminal I am getting the following: -bash: alias: —prompt: not found -bash: alias: inf-ruby’: not found
<Cages> does anyone know how to remove this from the terminal?
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<ledestin> Cages edit your bash config files
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<Cages> Ok, ledestin
<Cages> How?
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<ledestin> grep -r inf-ruby .
<ledestin> then edit the file that uses it
<ledestin> learn to use an editor
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<Cages> thanks for the help
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<zenspider> inf-ruby is an emacs thing, is it not?
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<Dysp> Hi. I want to make several entries to the DB. Following code works fine, but how do I add so one press on the submit button will make several entries of the same? Lets say like 10 at one time? https://gist.github.com/Dysperen/1ae49fbd3bcf171a4a74
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<ljarvis> Dysp: best you ask in #rubyonrails since this is a rails question
<Dysp> Okay.
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<ruby-lang785> hello could someone help me with errors . I'm beginning with ruby on windows and when I type >gem install rails I get the following error msg: ERROR: While executing gem ... (Encoding::UndefinedConversionError) U+00E9 to IBM866 in conversion from UTF-16LE to UTF-8 to IBM866
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<zenspider> can't help if you don't stick around...
<jhass> granted, it's a ping timeout and windows, might just have been force updated .P
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<bradland> dasvidaniya, code page 866!
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