apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby to: programming language || ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text in http://pastie.org || Rails is in #rubyonrails
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<heftig>
kenneth: i admit i haven't done any pure functional programming, but ruby's inject/reduce seems to fit wikipedia's definition of a "fold function" quite accurately
<binaryplease>
sorrry im trying to understand what method chaining acually means. is this method chaining : ('a'..'z').to_a.shuffle[0..7].join
<binaryplease>
just chaining them through dots?
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<heftig>
binaryplease: yes
<binaryplease>
cool. then its pretty easy to understand
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<digitalcakestudi>
whats the quickest way to check if an array has an element?
<digitalcakestudi>
I don't mean empty
<digitalcakestudi>
but a match
<xnm>
digitalcakestudi: array.include? object
<digitalcakestudi>
thanks
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<binaryplease>
hey how can i overwrite the "new" operator? should be something with mixins, closures or method chaining
<seanstickle>
binaryplease: don't
<binaryplease>
i know i should not but ho do i do its its just for exam questions :d
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<seanstickle>
Oh, you're looking for #homework-help
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<binaryplease>
no im asking if that is even possible in ruby and why i should not
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<binaryplease>
is that a problem to ask that here?
<Solnse>
only when it causes massive netsplits!
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<wardrop>
Does anyone know how to discard the timezone information of a Time or DateTime object? For example, if I have the time "2012-05-25 10:42:21 +1000", how do I change it to "2012-05-25 10:42:21 +0000". I basically want to set the timezone to UTC without adjusting the actual time value.
<wardrop>
I'll post my question again cause I think my IRC client just went screwy.
<wardrop>
Does anyone know how to discard the timezone information of a Time or DateTime object? For example, if I have the time "2012-05-25 10:42:21 +1000", how do I change it to "2012-05-25 10:42:21 +0000". I basically want to set the timezone to UTC without adjusting the actual time value.
<binaryplease>
wardrop: irc is working :D
<wardrop>
binaryplease: Thanks :)
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<Boohbah>
wardrop: puts Time.utc
<Boohbah>
wardrop: puts Time.now.utc
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<binaryplease>
wardrop: sorry i cant help you with your question. do you know how to overwrite the new operator using mixins, method chainig or closures?
<wardrop>
Boohbah: Yes, that converts to UTC, but it also adjusts the time.
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<kiin>
hi guys, i'm trying to use `` or system() (or other means) to change rubies using RVM, and then run a command -- i've not been able to figure out how, anyone encountered this before?
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<wardrop>
Ok, this seems to work in getting rid of the timezone offset: d.utc + d.offset
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<kiin>
i was answered in #rvm. thanks
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<bambanx>
guys when i use this code with csv myarray = CSV.read later i can print p myarray[1] and it return me all the row how i can point to specific element of this row?
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<Riccardo>
ciao
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<RBV>
What's the easiest away to sort a hash by the values? I could put each key and value in an array but then how would I 'link' them to sort the keys?
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<Boohbah>
RBV: hash.values.sort
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<RBV>
I want to print 'bob', 1, 'joe', 2, 'tom, 3' ... that just gives the values, can I get the keys too?
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<RBV>
Basically what I did is wrote a program that counts the number of times a character occurs in a paraph and stores each character as the key, and the # of times as the value
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<bambanx>
rbv maybe using csv can u help
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<Boohbah>
RBV: hash.sort_by {|k,v| v}
<RBV>
I think it might be easier to just store them in arrays
<RBV>
Boohbah: That seems to work
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<voodoofish430>
I'm seeming to get way too many escape /'s in a string when I try to .to_json it....
<voodoofish430>
this is giving me a headache...
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<offby1>
paste if the code is super-simple
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<voodoofish430>
offby1: here it is....super simple
<offby1>
is that the output from "puts", or is that the value in the repl?
<offby1>
I'm betting the latter
<voodoofish430>
repl?
<offby1>
try puts %["foo", "bar"].to_json
<offby1>
"repl" is my way of saying "irb" :-)
<voodoofish430>
irb
<offby1>
(that's an old Lisp-head term)
<voodoofish430>
ahhh
<offby1>
((I am an old Lisp-head))
<graspee>
i raise my mug of ale to that
<graspee>
for i am a warcraft dwarf stereotype
* offby1
grabs graspee's mug and downs it
<offby1>
eww, barleywine
<offby1>
voodoofish430: anyway, I suspect it's working fine, and you're confused by the two different levels of quoting -- one from JSON, one from irb itself
<offby1>
the "puts" effectively tells irb not to do any quoting
<offby1>
so you can see what it really looks like
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<voodoofish430>
it's killing something I'm working on...
<offby1>
again: paste if it's not too big. (To a paste site like gist.github.com)
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<offby1>
banisterfiend: I don't mean to pry, but ... why'd you name it "pry"? :-
<offby1>
:-)
<voodoofish430>
hhmmmm...will have to look into it later.
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<voodoofish430>
it's a bit big
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<voodoofish430>
out for now
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<offby1>
phipes: I assume that characters have messages like "is_upper etc
<offby1>
hm, seems they don't.
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<banisterfiend>
offby1: string == string.upcase is fine isn't it homie
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<offby1>
I guess.
<offby1>
seems klunky
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<phipes>
i can't use up case on lowercased_letters_character_set, it's not a string
<offby1>
most languages expose the C library's "isupper" and "islower" functions; I'm surprised ruby doesn't
<phipes>
lowercased_letters_character_set.upcase.include? c does not compute
<offby1>
phipes: you should probably just use a regex
<offby1>
string =~ /[A-Za-z0-9]/ should do it
<offby1>
er
<offby1>
string =~ /^[A-Za-z0-9]+$/ should do it
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<offby1>
that returns nil or a number, whereas yours returns true or false; but it's probably OK
<phipes>
eh, I'm put off by regex
<offby1>
*shrug*
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<bambanx>
hi
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<banisterfiend>
anyone here good at american slang?
<offby1>
Well, I'm a native speaker ...
<offby1>
watch:
<offby1>
"That's the cat's pyjamas!:
<offby1>
see?
<banisterfiend>
offby1: ok translate this tweet, and explain what he's talking about
* offby1
shifts uncomfortably
<banisterfiend>
offby1: "mattyblair: O_O! afaik, iPython is not this baller: https://t.co/rn3k5Y7T"
<offby1>
the only mystery there is "baller", about which I have no idea ... although "ball" is supposedly a slang term for "fuck", although I've only run into it in books -- no actual humans have ever said it
<offby1>
I actually suspect it's a typo
<banisterfiend>
offby1: no there are a few mysteries
<banisterfiend>
offby1: 1. why would he say anything about ipython in the first place? 2. why does he link to a specific line of the CHANGELOG? 3. what does the O_O! mean
<offby1>
nfi
<banisterfiend>
offby1: and yeah, what does 'baller' mean in that context
<billiamii>
'awesome'
<banisterfiend>
billiamii: so is he literally saying "dont confuse ipython with this" (even if they have similar name, i don tthink this is right) or is he saying "ipython isn't as good as this" ?
<banisterfiend>
i dont understand the point he's making
<billiamii>
The latter.
<banisterfiend>
billiamii: oh ok, so linking to the line of the changlog is linking to features that he finds cool?
<billiamii>
I suspect the highlighted line is an accident or just referring to the new features.
<billiamii>
yeah.
<banisterfiend>
oh ok
<billiamii>
and the O_O is an emoticon
<billiamii>
surprise / amazement.
<offby1>
I assumed banisterfiend recognized emoticons
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<offby1>
being an IRC denizen and all
<banisterfiend>
billiam: thx
<banisterfiend>
billiamii: are you american?
<billiamii>
Fraid so.
* offby1
derides billiamii cruelly
<banisterfiend>
billiamii: i also thought that maybe 'X is not this baller" could be an american idiomatic expression that had a certain meaning
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<offby1>
maybe it's a Saturday Night Live reference.
<offby1>
I'm still voting for typo, though
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<bambanx>
guys i have a string "asasas/sasasjq/aassasasas/" how i can transform all " / " to "\\" e.g. "asasas\\sasasjq\\aassasasas\\" ?
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<bnagy>
uh waaait - do you want literally two backslashes, or one?
<bnagy>
"f/a".gsub( '/', '\\\\').size => 3
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<bambanx>
damn sometimes my code is so confused i forget what i am doing lol
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<bnagy>
so with '\\\\' you get ONE 0x5c in the resulting string
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<bnagy>
which confuses me, tbh :(
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<offby1>
backslashes are confusing.
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<bambanx>
i have a mymethod(one, two) within my method i have an array it gets the arguments , btu how i can in case i wanna this array only with one arguments ? i mean array[one] without two argument
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<offby1>
python has a "raw" string, where backslashes aren't special; if ruby has something similar, it'd be handy here
<bnagy>
end of story - I'm not telling you never to use it
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<palmfrond>
zoomscale REAL NOT NULL DEFAULT 1.0
<palmfrond>
is that appropriate syntax?
<palmfrond>
in a table def that is
<pdtpatrick>
bnagy: shows step by step what i was doing and the output, lot easier than the paste bin text. Anyway the problem I'm having is that if ~/.ssh/known_hosts is empty it'll work but if it has something in it, it fails
<Hanmac>
palmfrond depending on your sql engine
<Hanmac>
"in a table def that is" ... its to early to speak yoda
<palmfrond>
sqlite
<palmfrond>
wrapped by FMDB
<palmfrond>
hahaha
<bnagy>
pdtpatrick: ok well my internet is too slow to dl high res screenies so good luck with that :) Hopefully someone in a first world country can help
<palmfrond>
sorry, how i talk it is
<palmfrond>
lol
<palmfrond>
bnagy, where're you?
<Hanmac>
of REAL is a valid type, then i think the syntax is ok
<palmfrond>
yea it's from sqlite's types doc
<bnagy>
Hanmac: that's broken, I can only assume it's written tat was because of limited syntax or a compiler that needs a lot of help
<bnagy>
which, given the author, seems reasonable :) Nobody would write that in 'real' ruby
<bnagy>
pdtpatrick: cool, looks like someone's on it
<banisterfiend>
palmfrond: he's from austarlia
<pdtpatrick>
Hanmac: thanks
<pdtpatrick>
bnagy: thanks
<palmfrond>
bnagy, living in nepal for good?
<bnagy>
banisterfiend: hey, how do I gist a class from pry? Or what's the line-range syntax? :)
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<bnagy>
palmfrond: I love it | Australia | No, we've been here 2 years, leaving next Jan | because we're here with the red cross | Yes, there ARE a lot of cows on the streets
<palmfrond>
could you be happy living there for life?
<bnagy>
damn, didn't see that one coming
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<palmfrond>
:)
<bnagy>
no, we're expat junkies, we move every 2-3 years. I think I would go nuts living _anywhere_ for 'life' at this point
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<banisterfiend>
bnagy: i was too lazy to add gisting of classes, though it's very possible. But if you typed the class in at the repl then you can gist it by using: gist -i EXPRESSION_NUMBER
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: where EXPRESSION_NUMBER is the number in [N] beside the prompt, next to the class def. you typed
<palmfrond>
btw someone in #iphonedev said the other day they think there are more ruby gigs now than even ios/objc. opinions on that?
<palmfrond>
i've been out of the ruby contract scene for 3 years doing ios
<banisterfiend>
palmfrond: just wait until rubymotion takes off
<bnagy>
banisterfiend: ok... can I get that later though?
<palmfrond>
banisterfiend, what'll happen then?
<banisterfiend>
palmfrond: then you can do rubymotion and ios in the same breath
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: what do u mean get it later
<palmfrond>
awesome. is it production ready?
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<banisterfiend>
palmfrond: Yes
<palmfrond>
nice
<banisterfiend>
palmfrond: im surprised you haven't heard about it
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<palmfrond>
i hae
<palmfrond>
have
<banisterfiend>
ok
<palmfrond>
haven't looked into it deeply yet however
<bnagy>
well the expression num where I defined it is gone in scrollback, but I can show-source it and the the original line numbers etc
<palmfrond>
and honestly i know/like objc at this point
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: well if you scroll up you'll see the expression number again, just use that.
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<banisterfiend>
bnagy: i will add the ability to gist classes soon, it should get around that boredom
<banisterfiend>
sorry
<bnagy>
but that's lame :)
<banisterfiend>
i just got lazy
<bnagy>
there's a -l option for girst, why can't I use that?
<bnagy>
*gist
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: Yeah, oversight on my part
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: because -l only works to limit what you're gisting, like: gist -m Pry#repl -l 2..3
<banisterfiend>
will restrict the lines from Pry#repl to 2..3
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<bnagy>
oic
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<banisterfiend>
bnagy: there's a request to be able to gist actual readline history, that will do what u want
<banisterfiend>
but it's not implemented yet
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<banisterfiend>
bnagy: we're about to do another point release in a day or so i can add your gist class feature then
<banisterfiend>
gist -c Bnagy
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<banisterfiend>
no it would have to be gist -k Bnagy
<banisterfiend>
as '-c' is already used by commands
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<bnagy>
if I use edit I have to go back and remember which edit command was the class I want to gist :S
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<bnagy>
you could also just have the expression number in the output for show-source, that would work, no?
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<banisterfiend>
bnagy: wll currently that's only an issue because we dont support gist -k, right? we'll support that in 1-2 days :) so it wont be an issue anymoer?
<bnagy>
I guess if you can gist Modules and Methods then that should be most stuff, yeah
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: what epxresison number are you up to?
<banisterfiend>
what's the current number beside your prompt
<bnagy>
31?
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<banisterfiend>
bnagy: ok, type this: cat -i 1..-1
<banisterfiend>
that will show oyu al input epxressions
<banisterfiend>
fully expanded (i.e if you used edit, then the full code for methods/classes you typed in edit will be displayed)
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<bnagy>
ok, that would be cool if you could pipe it to grep :D
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: Yeah, good point
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: does it at least have pagin?
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: cos if you have a pger then the pager should support a kind of grep
<banisterfiend>
pressing '/' in 'less' lets u grep
<bnagy>
no, because I turned it off because the pager couldn't work out my terminal size
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: ah, still in jruby?
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<banisterfiend>
bnagy: we dont use a real pager in jruby, we just use my little home made thing :P
<bnagy>
no mri now
<banisterfiend>
the real pager is less
<banisterfiend>
what?
<banisterfiend>
on mri it should work
<banisterfiend>
weird
<bnagy>
but it's less than a screen worth of output :)
<banisterfiend>
that's strange
<bnagy>
I am on 158x81, so it's not hitting the pager
<bnagy>
I'll try later when there is more stuff in there
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<banisterfiend>
bnagy: the difficult thing about classes though
<banisterfiend>
bnagy: is they can have more than one defintion, so what should gist -k MyClass do if MyClass has been monkeypatched in mutliple palces?
<billiamii>
How can I iterate through the bits in a fixnum?
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<palmfrond>
banisterfiend, that's a tough one. solution?
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<banisterfiend>
palmfrond: what?
<banisterfiend>
i was the one asking a question
<palmfrond>
o
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<bnagy>
billiamii: quick and dirty? ("%b" % 25).split(//).each {|bit|
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<bnagy>
banisterfiend: well somewhere there's the current source for MyClass, or..not? ruby2ruby? :)
<bnagy>
bambanx: file.gsub, not files, but you don't need it
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<Hanmac>
data = files.map {|files| CSV.read(file, :headers => true) }; p data
<Hanmac>
OR files.map! {|files| CSV.read(file, :headers => true) }; p files
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<bnagy>
except oth of those |files| should be |file|
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<bambanx>
ok
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<bambanx>
the part i dont understand is in this code data = files.map {|files| CSV.read(file, :headers => true) }; how i point to my folder with my files
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<bnagy>
bambanx: you already stored the array of filenames in the files variable on the line above
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<bambanx>
this ? files = Dir.glob('C:/Users/Market/*') - Dir.glob('C:/Users/Market/My Orders-*.txt')
<bnagy>
yes
<bambanx>
cool
<bambanx>
thanks
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<bnagy>
by the way, when you use the :headers option you're going to get an array of hashes, per file
<bambanx>
bnagy, using headers in my csv can i get a element using for example a key?
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* hemanth
wanted a kid to love CLI so did kidomath; gem install kidomath; kidomath
<hemanth>
vectorshelve, ^
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<hemanth>
bambanx, still stuck with My Orders-*.txt...hmmm
<bambanx>
heheh hemanth i am using csv now
<bambanx>
learning
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<hemanth>
bambanx, nice, try json and yaml too :)
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<bambanx>
i will !!!
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<bambanx>
but no now i need to finish my program
<bnagy>
bambanx: it should be an array of arrays of hashes
<bnagy>
keyed by your headers
<bnagy>
so like data.each {|order| p order['order_number']} or whatever the headers look like
<bambanx>
p data[0][1][2] this way is working but if i wanna use a hash for get a element ?
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<bambanx>
o
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<bnagy>
my bad, it will be array of CSV::Table, but they work like hashes anyway
<bnagy>
cute, they kind of work like both, you can do tbl[2] or tbl['header'
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<bambanx>
can i conbinate like tbl['header'][0] ?
<bnagy>
and it should be data.each {|file| file.each {|order| p order['id']}} or similar
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<bnagy>
data is an array of parsed files, each parsed file is an array of CSV::Table objects (one line from the file)
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<bambanx>
ok master
<bambanx>
i can conbinate :P
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<bnagy>
data[0][1][2] is the third heading (or column) in the second row of the first file
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<bnagy>
but doing it my ways makes it twenty times easier to read
<bambanx>
i used data[0]['price'] and works =)
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<bnagy>
eh?
<bnagy>
you mean data[0][0]['price'] or something I guess?
<bambanx>
i used p data[0]['price'] and works well print me the row of prices
<bambanx>
yeah
<bnagy>
ahhh yeah I am retarded, a Table is 2D
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<bambanx>
you are very smart bro
<bnagy>
so data[0][0] is the first row and data[0]['price'] is the price column
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<bnagy>
CSV is awesome!
<bambanx>
yeah
<bnagy>
data[0][0]['price'] could just just the price from the first row
<bambanx>
data[this number is my file] e.g. if is 0 is my first file
<bnagy>
s/c/w/
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<bambanx>
data[0]['price'] row of prices of my first file data[1]['price row of my second file
<bnagy>
bambanx: if you want to be able to reliably link the Tables to a filename then you need to change the initial parsing a little bit
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<bnagy>
but if you just want to iterate through all of them then it's fine like this
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<bambanx>
yeah i can iterate the first value of my array
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<bnagy>
bambanx: you should say price _column_ not row, so people don't get confused. Columns go down, rows go arcoss
<bnagy>
I really cannot type for toffee today :(
<bambanx>
thanks bnagy
<bnagy>
bambanx: data.map {|f| f['price']}.flatten.inject(:+) <-- sum of all order prices from all files
<bambanx>
how i can get the minor or major ( < or >)
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<bnagy>
without knowing your data structure I have no idea what you're talking about :)
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<bambanx>
for example of my list of price , the major price or minor
<bambanx>
< >
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<bnagy>
bambanx: I recommend getting into irb, running that import and then playing with map etc
<Hanmac>
something like this: data.map {|f| f['price']}.flatten.max data.map {|f| f['price']}.flatten.min
<bambanx>
ok
<bambanx>
what do flatten?
<bnagy>
uh that gets the biggest and smallest price for any order in any file
<bnagy>
but I still have no idea what your data looks like, so I am staying on the fence
<bnagy>
bambanx: seriously, try this stuff in irb
<Hanmac>
bambanx flatten does if you have an array in array in array, it turns into one big flat array
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<bnagy>
you need to learn what's happening with all this magic
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<bambanx>
what wrong of use a editor and run them with F7?
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<bnagy>
irb is quicker
<bnagy>
and it shows you the inspect output every time so you can see step by step what is happening
<bambanx>
my editor too , i ws tryed in irb but i can copy n the shell and move code easyly
<bambanx>
i am on windows my shell suck
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<bnagy>
irb in cmd.exe is pretty much the same as on linux :)
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<bnagy>
cut and paste sucks, that's all
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<razer123>
On my mac it doesn't do indent numbers in irb like on windows
<bnagy>
macs can't do indenting, that's why most rubyists use windows
<razer123>
?
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<bnagy>
yeah, it's a big problem, I had to buy a whole new laptop
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<bnagy>
razer123: is your irb prompt '>>' ?
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<TTilus>
fyi, the combination of ruby and finnish as natural language: #ruby.fi
<bnagy>
perkele
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<bambanx>
bnagy, Hanmac my data have this structure http://pastie.org/3964895 , is posible filter for example if i wanna all prices equal to 1200 or < 2000 .... ?
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<bnagy>
when you read it in :header=>true, :converters=>:all
<bnagy>
or just :converters=>:numeric if you don't have any dates
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<bnagy>
bambanx: also, please don't crosspost in #ruby-lang, especially without telling people you're doing it
<bambanx>
ok sorry
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<bambanx>
yeah now works !!!! \o/ bnagy
<Tasser>
bnagy, a redirect needs to be done either way... :-/
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<bnagy>
Tasser: yep, done
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<Tasser>
bnagy, as in channel redirect ;-)
<bnagy>
oh right, yeah well I have no idea about politics
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<bambanx>
nice bnagy i am filtering how say Hanmac p data[0].find_all {|f| f['price'] < 1.10 && f['bid'] == "True"} =) very cool and easy i love csv now
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<bambanx>
gn all , thanks bnagy Hanmac for all see ya
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<bnagy>
o/
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<shevy>
<Hanmac> shevy did you know that mruby can turn ruby code to c code?
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<deryl>
grrr why does evolution's cancel button never friggin work when querying a server for supported authentication types. hangs the entire damned thing
<seanstickle>
shevy: wait what?
<seanstickle>
mruby -> c ?
<seanstickle>
Really?
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<shevy>
seanstickle would be cool if. I dont know how Hanmac knows these things, until a few weeks I didnt even know mRuby existed
<Helius>
which is the main advantage in using mruby ?
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<seanstickle>
Apparently, compilation to C!
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<shevy>
Helius, I suppose it is small and embeddable and thus easier to integrate into C programs, like lua
<hoelzro>
I see a few hints taken from Lua in there =)
<hoelzro>
namely mrb_state
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<shevy>
what is mrb_state? is there a lua_state?
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<hoelzro>
lua_State is the interpreter state
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<hoelzro>
because the state is encapsulated in a struct rather than in globals, it allows you to easily embed several interpreters in the same process
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<zeroXten>
hmm, "hello there"[5] returns the decimal ascii value for space?
<zeroXten>
but when using a range one gets the actual chars
<zeroXten>
is that right?
<hoelzro>
in 1.8, yes
<zeroXten>
ah
<hoelzro>
in 1.9, 'hello there'[5] will return a string consisting of a single character
<zeroXten>
ahhh, how strange
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<hoelzro>
indeed
<hoelzro>
shocked me when I read it!
<zeroXten>
i'd better upgrade then.. why one earth does it do that
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<hoelzro>
unicode integration in 1.9
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<bnagy>
you can test against characters by str[3]==?a
<bnagy>
but not space :/
<bnagy>
because ?char changed at the same time from returning the ord to returning a str
<zeroXten>
hmm, why would you want to return a string from a char?
<bnagy>
but yeah, upgrade if you can :)
<bnagy>
zeroXten: well it makes that test 1.8 and 1.9 compatible
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<zeroXten>
ah true
<deryl>
iirc peter cooper covers all of that in hsi Ruby 1.9 walkthrough
<bnagy>
it used to be a shortcut to get the ord
<deryl>
(gotta pull it off the external backup to be sure)
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<shevy>
zeroXten string[1,3] will work in both 1.8 and 1.9
<shevy>
sad story of yesterday:
<shevy>
here on mageia linux I can compile 1.9.3 from source, but not 1.8.7
<shevy>
:(
<hoelzro>
why not?
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<bnagy>
shevy: my sad story is that my 0mq FFI stuff isn't working with jruby at the moment, so I am stuck with shitty MRI
<shevy>
not sure hoelzro I can pastie the error I get here
<bnagy>
need to try a million JVM upgrade / downgrades now etc. booring.
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<shevy>
hoelzro, http://pastie.org/3965272 I think it does not like something about dl/ not sure what that is ... perhaps glibc? ruby 1.9.3 has no problem with that
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<shevy>
bnagy, I am still scared of jruby because they want me to install java :D
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<bnagy>
I can appreciate your distaste
<bnagy>
BUT it's so much FASTER
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<shevy>
yah well
<deryl>
after the initial jvm rampup
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<shevy>
I think speed was not what I needed most. but I did want to use jruby at one point because of redcar actually
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<Sulaiman>
I'm a little late to the party, just beginning to learn and use ruby. hello.
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<hoelzro>
Sulaiman: hi!
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<shevy>
Sulaiman good!
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<shevy>
Sulaiman the only thing that really works learning ruby is to write scripts on your own, in my opinion
<banisterfiend>
shevy: do u know sulaiman is an alternative spelling of solomon
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<shevy>
haha
<shevy>
sulaiman reminds me of the turk emperor
<shevy>
the name
<Sulaiman>
that is correct, it's the arabic version of solomon.
<graspee>
i was going to say, was he learning ruby too?
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<shevy>
as Alan Kay said in a lecture a year ago
<shevy>
we build on the progress of other people before us
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<shevy>
our own intellect, and abilities to do something, depends on that earlier progress. and the available methods and tools that we now have, compared to people who lived before
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<workmad3>
'if I have seen further than others, it is only because I have stood on the shoulders of giants'
<shevy>
workmad3 I really would not now why making .new useless is useful, but to each his own. binaryplease wants it so it must be useful to him
<shevy>
:)
<shevy>
ewww
<shevy>
eval!
<shevy>
!!!
<shevy>
I used to be tolerating and accepting
<shevy>
nowadays I just hate things I dont like
<shevy>
I cant even go back to windows because I hate that too :(
<bnagy>
String.instance_eval {def new( *args );puts "Arrays are more fun!";[];end}
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<Tasser>
bnagy, at least do Array.new(*args)
<bnagy>
Tasser: breaks on String.new "foo", that was the first thing I tried :(
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<vectorshelve>
is there an online site or something where I can create table with contents.. and then copy paste it as text to mail.. in that format itself ?
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<Tasser>
bnagy, huh?
<Tasser>
vectorshelve, you could just use emacs org-mode for plaintext tables ;-)
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<vectorshelve>
Tasser: :-/ exmaple
<bnagy>
Tasser: String.new "foo" is legal, Array.new "foo" isn't
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<Tasser>
bnagy, huh
<Tasser>
vectorshelve, google yourself n stuff
<banisterfiend>
vectorshelve: you are a potato-head
<bnagy>
Tasser: you said at least do Array.new(*args) in my thing where I clobbered String.new, but it didn't work, which was why I used the version I did
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<bnagy>
Tasser: I don't know if I can explain any more verbosely, so if this answer remains unsatisfactory I feel we have come to an impasse, so please refrain from saying 'huh' again
<banisterfiend>
hehe
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<banisterfiend>
vectorshelve: what's your name on twitter?
<Tasser>
bnagy, formulate it like a sir :-)
<vectorshelve>
banisterfiend: potato -head lol
<banisterfiend>
vectorshelve: is this you @Nirjhor ?
<vectorshelve>
banisterfiend: no who is that ? :-/
<dekroning>
when I have a class which doesn't actually contain any logic, just data structure, what is a clean way of creating this datastrcuture ? just leave it a Struct or create a class which inherits from that Struct? e.g. class Foo < Struct.new(:bar); end
<bnagy>
if it doesn't have any logic, why is it a class, for a start?
<dekroning>
bnagy: I was thinking (perhaps wrongly) that it's good practise to encapsulate them in some kind of Domain Object?
<bnagy>
I have no idea what you mean by Domain Object, but the caps are scary :) If it's just chunks of data maybe a module would be better
<dekroning>
bnagy: some extar background, I want to create a Person class which has an address (Address class)
<bnagy>
classes are usually for making instances of
<Tasser>
dekroning, you can either use a struct or a hash... a struct is more like a hash that's casted
<bnagy>
ok it sounds like you want class Person blah blah @address= # something here
<Tasser>
you can use a hash as dictionary or as struct - if the keys are given symbols, it's a struct semantically, so you could replace it with a struct and it would still be the same
<bnagy>
in which case, either an instance of Hash or an instance of OpenStruct, like Tasser is explaining
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<bnagy>
you could have class Address < OpenStruct or class Address < DelegateClass(OpenStruct) but I wouldn't, personally
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<bnagy>
seems to be over complicating stuff
<Tasser>
depends, if you cast it to a Struct, you kind of get a typing
<dekroning>
for example to reuse the address struct/class, e.g. now i'm starting with a Person who has indeed a association with an Address, but later for example I would also like to have an Company with same Address association
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<Tasser>
dekroning, you want to persist that some time soon?
<bnagy>
you're not reusing the class you're reusing the instance, and it doesn't really matter what class it is
<dekroning>
yeah, I was trying to get to that point later indeed :-)
<bnagy>
but this sounds like it is heading towards webcrap
<Tasser>
dekroning, AR, datamapper or sequel
<dekroning>
bnagy: well, indeed i'm heading towards webcrap, but i'm trying to find a way to write my nieuwe application, without "webcrap dependency" :-)
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<dekroning>
Tasser: yeah , well I would like to somehow later make an PersistanceAddress class, which would be derived from indeed some ORM like ActiveRecord::Base
<dekroning>
s/stance/stant/
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<deryl>
err? AR is webcrap?
<deryl>
thats just database interfacing
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<dekroning>
deryl: I tried speaking in the bnagy language ;-)
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<banisterfiend>
Tasser: thanks for the follow on twitter, what cuased you to follow jsut now?
<banisterfiend>
vectorshelve: string.chars.count is better
<vectorshelve>
banisterfiend: I was thinking of building a gem that would take in a string and get the count of all that.. is it worth a gem really or too low ?
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<banisterfiend>
vectorshelve: not worth a gem IMO
<vectorshelve>
banisterfiend: what is IMO ?
<banisterfiend>
in my opinion
<banisterfiend>
vectorshelve: if the size of the gemspec > the size of the code in the gem, probably not worth a gem ;)
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<vectorshelve>
banisterfiend: I am really interesting in making a gem of my own.. any suggestions please.. something that can reallly useful to ppl :)
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<shevy>
vectorshelve just make a tiny test gem
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<vectorshelve>
shevy: test gem ? for what
<shevy>
vectorshelve it is however too easy a task. it is just one method that solves the problem you described
<shevy>
well, we assume here that you wanna make a .gem because others find it useful
<shevy>
but a one-method gem is usually not so useful
<vectorshelve>
shevy: I need to give something back to ruby.. and a gem of my own.. wooooh will make me really feel good.. and I need that to be something useful
<banisterfiend>
vectorshelve: yes i have an idea for a gem, but can you program C?
<shevy>
yes but it's not a lot of work what you describe vectorshelve ;)
<vectorshelve>
shevy: the above example right.. yeah I need u guys suggestion.. I can do it this weekend
<vectorshelve>
banisterfiend: can try.. tell me what is it ?
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<shevy>
vectorshelve right but you also say you wanna have it useful for others
<vectorshelve>
shevy: yeah.. that is important.. that would highlight my resume with something.. and I had be really happy if my gem help ppl do less coding :) just like how u help me out here.. I also wish to help others.. ;)
<shevy>
the best way that works is by finding something that is useful to you, over a longer period of time
<shevy>
and to release that as a gem
<shevy>
ok now it is about a resume suddenly? :P
<vectorshelve>
shevy: like what.. that is what isnt striking my head :P
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<vectorshelve>
shevy: not really.. I genuinely wanna contribute to open source..
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<shevy>
I dunno, I have way too MUCH to pick on what is useful to me
<vectorshelve>
shevy: resume will be just 15% of the reason..
<shevy>
but often enough, what is there does not fit a specific use case
<bnagy>
that's a really nic site
<shevy>
I really wanted nothing else than a module with the ansi colour escape codes available. most ansi colour gems, add up fancy methods... things like "foo".red.bold
<deryl>
!iwanttolearnruby
<deryl>
oh snap wrong channel hehe
<shevy>
pr0n!
<vectorshelve>
bnagy: thanks man will look into it
<vectorshelve>
shevy: right
<hoelzro>
shevy: I wrote something like that for Lua
<shevy>
pr0n?
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
how do you do "gems" in lua? do you also define one file?
<bnagy>
vectorshelve: not trying to be particularly mean, but I would go through the first 20 or so project euler problems, or something simpl before you start puzzlenode
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<vectorshelve>
bnagy: Hmm...
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<bnagy>
some of them are really quite difficult
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<bnagy>
only 3-4 are 'easy'
<deryl>
yeah they are
<deryl>
i've tried a few.
<deryl>
keyword there.. tried
<bnagy>
the tough ones are 3rd year compsci degree level
<bnagy>
I would love to mess with some in ruby, I was using Ada and C when I did stuff like that :<
<vectorshelve>
bnagy: shevy guys this http://puzzlenode.com/puzzles/12-secret-messages problem gave me an idea... gem to encrypt messages (strings) using monoalphabetic substitutions and even user can select the count by which each alphabet should be replaced by the other
<bnagy>
sadly I have enough tricky problems so solve for my actual job
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<shevy>
I dunno
<bnagy>
vectorshelve: why would that be a gem?
<shevy>
I never had to encrypt anything so far
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<shevy>
vectorshelve, as I wrote above. find something that you *need*
<bnagy>
nobody will ever want to use it, it's toy encryption
<bnagy>
I mean go ahead and do it for fun, but...
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<bnagy>
although that puzzle (breaking that kind of cipher) is much more challenging and interesting than ciphering with it
<vectorshelve>
bnagy: ok... :'( so anything useful... let my mind think abt something
<bnagy>
write some code first, forget gems
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<bnagy>
there are already plenty of useless gems written by people who code with their feet
<bnagy>
we don't need more
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* deryl
codes up a foot-hackery gem!
<bnagy>
if you get to the point where you think you have some skills, go look at issues in gems you like, fork, fix, send pull requests to the maintainer
<bnagy>
at least that's genuinely useful
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<bnagy>
plus fixing problems and working in an SCM model is a useful skill
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<vectorshelve>
bnagy: SCM model ?
<deryl>
source code management
<vectorshelve>
deryl: to name a few projects under SCM model ? bnagy
<deryl>
ummm
<deryl>
really?
<bnagy>
github is a big, public SCM
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<deryl>
ruby, rails, git, linux kernel, jsut about every gem going.. etc
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<deryl>
actually its a SCR
<deryl>
Sour
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<vectorshelve>
bnagy: ok
* deryl
blinks
<bnagy>
vectorshelve: for now, do puzzles, do exercises, write toy code
<vectorshelve>
bnagy: ok.. and I will push everything to github too.. that will be nice right ?
<deryl>
actually it'd actually be called a Source Code Repository Management Site wou;dn't it? (think thats the official term for what GH actually does)
<bnagy>
unless you've got a lot of previous programming experience or you are Knuth you're not going to be producing code that's useful to anyone else for a few months to a year
<hoelzro>
vectorshelve: I wouldn't push *everything* to GH
<deryl>
SCRMS or SCRM
<bnagy>
using github for your own stuff is fine, it's good practice
<deryl>
hoelzro, hehe I do. good or bad. there and bitbucket :)
<vectorshelve>
ok
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* hoelzro
shrugs
<hoelzro>
it's up to your personal preference I guess =)
<deryl>
hoelzro, i came late to the programming game. i was also a lemming when i did. so all my crap went on gh. :shrug:
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<bnagy>
yeah I came too early for all that stuff (this never happens to me I swear) ;)
<hoelzro>
I started when I was 17; I consider that quite late =)
<bnagy>
didn't get around to learning svn until late 90s
<bnagy>
hahah I started long before then, but BASIC doesn't count, and it actually makes you stupider :)
<deryl>
hoelzro, i'm 41. i started coding about 3y ago. I mean i've done coding before that but only one thing that was substantial (in C), everything else was all personal crap that nhever left my network
<bnagy>
wooo I'm not the oldest one!
<shevy>
cool
<shevy>
3 years ago
<deryl>
bnagy, naaa. my first programming language ever was BASIC and that was WAY WAY back in the day for me. took an NRI (National Radio Institute) course in it when I was like 21-22. something like that
<shevy>
when I look back, that I started ruby 7 years ago, I feel old and lazy
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<shevy>
I think in 8 more years I will be too lazy to write any code
<bnagy>
yay same time as me
<deryl>
home based course. I promptly forgot everything after i passed the course. I needed it for a couple Army credits in order to increase my education scores for promotion points :)
<bnagy>
are names are also .{4,}y which makes us TWINS
<bnagy>
deryl: probably for the best. BASIC really is a turd of a language
<deryl>
hehe
<bnagy>
at least asm is cumbersome and painful but useful
<deryl>
i tried to learn asm.. not my cup o' tea
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<workmad3>
asm can be fun
<workmad3>
optimising it can also be fun
<bnagy>
x86 asm is a pigdog
<workmad3>
not something I'd want to ever do commercially though
<workmad3>
I've only ever really dealt with ARM asm
<deryl>
btw, is there a currently active smalltalk still in service?
<bnagy>
imho you want to learn on a nice simple fake assembler
<AxonetBE>
Some people have here performance problems with ruby 1.8.7 (2012-02-08 MBARI 8/0x6770 on patchlevel 358) ?
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<workmad3>
bnagy: MIX? :)
<bnagy>
then the next year you can write the VM for the assembler that you learned :)
<deryl>
i keep hearing craploads about smalltalk, but always referenced as if its dead
<bnagy>
it's old
<workmad3>
deryl: there's still smalltalk development, but it's quite a small group
<bnagy>
and it lives on in lots of neckbeard hearts
<deryl>
there's like 3 or 4 people in (i forget which) here or #ruby-lang that seem to still code in it but even they seem to talk about it like its a bygone era language
<bnagy>
AxonetBE: depends what you mean by problems, but MRI 1.8.7 is the slowest available ruby interpreter by quite a lot
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<workmad3>
bnagy: unless all you need from the interpreter is to require a crapload of files :)
<deryl>
but from what i've gathered it seemed to have a large impact on ruby itself
<workmad3>
deryl: yeah, ruby's object model is closer to smalltalk than java
<deryl>
think i remember reading a translation from matz about the impact it made
<bnagy>
Ruby - cursed by Perl, blessed by Smalltalk
<deryl>
ok, cool so i'm not crazy. well, i am, just not on this :)
<workmad3>
ruby is sort of like the union of perl and smalltalk :)
<AxonetBE>
bnagy: Since we rebooted server, we have a high load on CPU and Memory, the ruby version was updated to 2012.2 and the app is still the same.
<deryl>
i wouldn't say that. perl is nowhere near as nice as ruby
<deryl>
not even close
<workmad3>
deryl: philosophy wise though, there's a lot of perl influence
<bnagy>
AxonetBE: I dunno what 'the app' is. If it's rails then try that channel, they know a lot more about troubleshooting
<AxonetBE>
bnagy: thanks :) It is indeed rails
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<deryl>
and perl coders seem to take OBSCENE joy in being as freakin terse as they can and extreme beyond measure in how dense they can code their stuff
<bnagy>
#rubyonrails
<workmad3>
deryl: with things like 'there's more than one way to do things' and the ability to do short, concise programs :)
<deryl>
ahh ok
<hoelzro>
deryl: not every Perl coder =)
<bnagy>
"perl is the only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption"
<workmad3>
deryl: ruby does reject the perl maxim of 'not everything is an object' though :)
<deryl>
hoelzro, i like expressive, ability to code pretty close to as if i was talking in english, and have stuff work. perl coders i've talked to (and the one's in person couple it with the actual looks) look at my like i have 5 heads or something
<deryl>
workmad3, i like the idea of everything ebing an object.
<deryl>
err being. not sure on all levels, why. but instinctively that sits 'well' with me. (not sure if thats good or bad,k haven't been coding long enough to be sure)
<workmad3>
sure, and I do too, when I'm doing OO coding :)
<hoelzro>
deryl: I'm not saying there aren't perl coders that strive for brevity, but I would say that most of the community these days rejects that notion
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<workmad3>
that particular perl maxim is the perl community pushing back against the pervasive 'everything must be an object because objects are all-powerful goodness, even when using them in atrocious ways for problems that are not nicely solved with OO techniques' :)
<workmad3>
you don't need a heavy object system to do what perl was originally developed for, which was short and sweet text processing scripts
<deryl>
i *think* i understand that comment but not entirely sure
<deryl>
rigfht
<deryl>
like php was iirc
<workmad3>
nah, php was a set of tools for doing simple webpages
<daed>
php is the bane of my existence
<workmad3>
php - personal home page
<deryl>
wasn't that the original intent of php? a better perl but oriented towards trhe web?
<workmad3>
ah, that was after perl had already migrated from its original purpose and was pervasive in the cgi web script arena :)
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<deryl>
ahh
<deryl>
timing then
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<workmad3>
(although processing HTTP requests could be seen as text processing... and perl does work well there, as long as you don't go too extreme)
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<workmad3>
it's all about recognising the sweet spot... perl is very good for doing short, throwaway scripts for file-processing for example
<workmad3>
but then, so is a bash script using sed and awk...
<deryl>
i imagine there's a few in here snickering at reading my comments, hopefully my lack of experience isn't too far off the map in formulating my ideas on things.
<bnagy>
right, pool. beer.
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<workmad3>
I'd still reach for ruby for doing file processing though, because I can write it quicker in ruby than I can in perl or bash, because I'd spend so long looking things up :)
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<deryl>
well i live shell scripting. i mean the simplicity of a single prog to do a single job, using a pretty simplistic semantic for pushing data between the apps, with some fairly basic logic is rather appealing
<workmad3>
but a couple of years ago, I'd have gone for perl, because I knew it better (Symbian OS toolchain was written in perl... great fun)
<deryl>
s/live/love/
<deryl>
and you don't even have to be all that freakin great at it either.
<deryl>
and be able to do some more than fairly advanced stuff
<deryl>
i think there's a far greater learning curve with ruby than there is with bash/shells
<workmad3>
there is
<workmad3>
but it's less noisy...
<deryl>
how do you mean?
<workmad3>
the syntax of bash scripting, with lots of case matched with esac, and $ for variables gets noisy
<workmad3>
ruby has less noise
<deryl>
ahh
<deryl>
yeah thats true
<workmad3>
some people can get very hung up on the noise
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<workmad3>
the same is true with perl... perl syntax is in many ways really simple... but it's got a lot of noise :)
<deryl>
no. doubt. :-)
<workmad3>
although even perl pales in comparison with the noise you can introduce with C and the C preprocessor :D
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<deryl>
woot! dragon getting close to docking with iss
<deryl>
hah!
<workmad3>
if you want some fun, have a look at the international obfuscated C coding competition entries at some point :D
<deryl>
i like C. what i hate is the pointer math. i always fuck that up.
<deryl>
no thanks. one of the things i love about ruby is it lets me be expressive. doesn't get in my way like that
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<deryl>
i don't wana deal with obfuscation thank very much
<workmad3>
I particularly like the self-referencing entries you get at times... a program formatted to look like the mandlebrot set that prints out the mandlebrot set
<workmad3>
or the maze solver that can take its own source code as a maze to solve...
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<workmad3>
oh,
<workmad3>
I wouldn't suggest trying to understand them... but they are awesome bits of coding :D
<workmad3>
same with perl haiku
<banisterfiend>
workmad3: i liked the 3d flight simulator in the shape of a plane
<workmad3>
banisterfiend: :D
<banisterfiend>
the C code in the shape of a plane*
<workmad3>
banisterfiend: there was one at one point that was in the shape of a train
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<deryl>
heheh the human brain.. amazing little engine ;)
<workmad3>
banisterfiend: and its entire purpose was to print out 'choo choo' :D
<deryl>
imaginative
<banisterfiend>
cute
<deryl>
bbiam
<workmad3>
shows the range of things that happens in the IOCCC though... simple things to print out a single like but massively obfuscated, up to 3d flight simulators and operating systems
<workmad3>
and all of them actually aimed at making the most obtuse, hard to understand programs imaginable
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<workmad3>
and most entries stand as paragons of how to not actually write C programs :)
<deryl>
you knowi'm sitting here thinking its hard to believ eits been 3y since i picked up programming. i *still* feel likie a freakin idiot most of the time with code.
<workmad3>
hey, don't think like that
<workmad3>
my first 3 years of coding were things like copying BASIC adventure game transcripts out of books and doing lottery number generators
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<deryl>
i got into it so i had something to do at home since i don't work a regular job since gtting out the service (injuries as you now) so i do spend a lot of time readin and trying stuff, but it *still* feels like i dont know a damned thing]
<workmad3>
or playing around with visual basic (again with transcripts and stuff from books :) )
<deryl>
yeah 90% of what i know comes from books
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<deryl>
that twgr really makes a lot of sense of stuff for me though
<workmad3>
you've done more in your first 3 years of coding than I did... hell, you've done more in your first 3 years than I did in my first 12 years :)
<deryl>
though i forget a lot of it hehe
<deryl>
ehh i wouldn't call rvm-test *that* big a deal. that and taking over libpam-pgsql are really all i've done thats of any 'consequence'
<seanstickle>
The nice thing about programming is that the best teacher is the computer.
<seanstickle>
Which you need to use anyways. :0
<deryl>
i mean i haven't written a real program like a rails app and stuff
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<workmad3>
seanstickle: yeah, I know that now... unfortunately, I kept on thinking things like 'no, it must be more complicated, I'll put X or Y off till I know more' and wasted a lot of time
<workmad3>
(the time wasted being me from the age of 6 to 18)
<deryl>
seanstickle, yeah. i love that i can do crap on the computer and screw up stuff left and right and its all digital. i can just start all over from scratch :)
<seanstickle>
deryl: and the computer even says "nope, that's wrong"
<seanstickle>
:D
<deryl>
yep
<seanstickle>
And never gets tired of telling me.
<deryl>
leaves me sometimes going HOW the hell is it wrong damn it!
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<deryl>
then its not so 'friend;y' hehe
<deryl>
er friendly
<seanstickle>
Well, true.
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<JonnieCache>
compiler/interpreter error messages are hard
<workmad3>
deryl: just be glad you're not dealing with a C++ template compiler error ;)
<JonnieCache>
one of the hardest thingd about writing a compiler is good errors
<workmad3>
JonnieCache: one of the hardest things about anything is good diagnostics
<seanstickle>
clang forevers!
<JonnieCache>
true
<deryl>
what i have found so amazing though with computers is, i've done CRAPLOADS of stuff, *really* advanced stuff with no programming experience. piranha setups, ldirectord, built my own distro (though i used templated setups for a lot of that), i can do just about any damned thing i want for server setups and stuff. i've set up clusters etc.
<deryl>
but man, i do i have to admit for as dumb as i feel since picking up coding, i wojuldn't give it up for anything.
<workmad3>
deryl: heh :) I feel the same when I have to do sysadmin stuff
<workmad3>
I feel like I'm paddling in a big ocean and at any point I'm going to trip and drown
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<workmad3>
while coding... I can do that practically in my sleep nowadays (I think I may actually have done it in my sleep a few times... stupid dreams :P )
<deryl>
yeah see that stuff i absolutely love. admin stuff is right up my alley. i figure if i can put a few more years into learning coding, even at my age, i will be able to do some 8really* cool stuff that will make admin stuff look small time :)
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<deryl>
its just i want it NOW damn it! i want the knowledge now now now! hehe
<workmad3>
:)
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<deryl>
brain is just awash in ideas. sickening at times when you want to do something but just odn't have the skill yet to do it.
<deryl>
i was never a patient man hehe
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<seanstickle>
Impatience is a Perl programmer virtue. :)
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<workmad3>
seanstickle: yeah... so impatient, they just open an editor and hit keys at random, then slowly refine the mess towards the program they actually wanted :)
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<deryl>
my hard drive is just *littered* with half done programs, partial ideas i just couldn't get working yet. but, in a way thats good. i get to look back and sort of see an evolution of sorts.
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<workmad3>
deryl: yeah, I have that too... or did have (I think those hard drives are now dead)
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<seanstickle>
workmad3: aw, don't be that way
<workmad3>
deryl: most of my projects were things like game engines and 3d graphics and physics stuff, where the problems I had weren't in coding but in design and maths
<shevy>
deryl I have that too, but usually it tends to evolve on its own - when I find it useful, when I use it a lot, it gets improved upon and better. whereas those files, that I rarely use, slowly decay and die away until I finally remove them (because they are not useful enough to have a reason to exist)
<deryl>
wookiehangover, whats keeping me from really going balls to the wall with testrunner is really just fear. fear that i'll put it out there, get laughed at and that.. that i think would drive me away from doing anything public at all
<shevy>
I find organizing things properly difficult :(
<deryl>
shevy, me too.
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<deryl>
err workmad3 that was for you not wookiehangover
<deryl>
bad nick complete
<shevy>
cool nick
<deryl>
yeah :)
<workmad3>
deryl: yeah, fear is annoying... I started just throwing stuff on github :) half my projects on there are half-completed piles of crap
<shevy>
I would have never realized we had a wookiehangover here haha
<workmad3>
or things that I created the project for and then never touched again :)
<deryl>
workmad3, exactly like mine :)
<workmad3>
the other half is stuff I've forked :P
<deryl>
i deleted about 20 projects off there, things i know i'll never do
<deryl>
but of all my projects on there, rvm-test (now testrunner) is the one i keep coming back to. its the one that keeps me up at night thinking on wtf i really want to do.
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<deryl>
maybe its a sign. just frigign do it already or somethin
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<workmad3>
yeah, I have some projects like that
<workmad3>
things that I know I need to do, but have ended up spending so long thinking about them that I'm stugk
<workmad3>
*stuck
<deryl>
*exactly*
<banisterfiend>
deryl: do rubymotion stuff
<deryl>
banisterfiend, i'm nto going to spend 150 bucks on something i might not even like. i'm shareware generation :)
<deryl>
s/nto/not/
<deryl>
especially since 150 clams aint cheap in my world
<banisterfiend>
deryl: well it'll be $200 if you leave it much longer :)
<deryl>
hehehe
<banisterfiend>
$150 is just the special offer for the first few weeks
<shevy>
I dont quite know why forking is done. it's just done to do a few changes and patches or? or is it a project takeover
<deryl>
i know, doesn't change my point
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<banisterfiend>
shevy: usually just patches
<deryl>
shevy, *I* fork for 1 of 2 reasons. 1) to make a change and pull req. or 2) so i hav a copy under my user on GH so i dont' forget it (locationj) or in case it goes byebye
<deryl>
but thats just my own personal usage pattern of forking. right or wrong
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<deryl>
oncve i read about _why and his trashing all his stuff and then disappearing, there are a few projects that i use or that i pick through for ideas that i'd be a bit miffed if they went bye bye all together, so a fork (sometimes just a pull down locally though but more often a fork) is usually what i do
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<deryl>
hope the GH guys don';t get too bent out of shape over that hehe
<workmad3>
shevy: I tend to fork to make a few patches. I'll then keep my fork around until patches are accepted so I can use it :)
<banisterfiend>
shevy: have u learned git yet
<shevy>
banisterfiend not really, my current workflow is at odds with it :(
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<deryl>
workmad3, yeah thats my gist gem fork. i'm thinking of taking that over or at least just using my own fork (if nothing else its a learning tool as the GH api changes and stuff)
<deryl>
i think defunkt is way too busy or something to fix it up. there's quite a few of us waiting on pull reqs to get merged or a fix to come out. he used to be really responsive, so i'[m thinking its just that he's swamped with work or something.
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<deryl>
so i figure if i fork, patch and make it work again it would also be pretty good education wise.
<deryl>
hrmm anyone else watching the nasatv and seeing it hang? (dragon to iss)
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<codespectator>
Hey guys, I am not sure how to describe this problem but here is a pastie that hopefully illustrates it: http://pastie.org/3966031
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<Alantas>
Okay. What were you expecting to happen, that's different from what did happen?
<rking>
codespectator: There's not enough info for me to know what's going on.
<rking>
codespectator: .create is not something available by default, nor is SomeClass.first
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<codespectator>
rking, sorry I have updated the pastie, these classes actually extend mongoid documents
<rking>
Aha, that helps.
<codespectator>
but I don't believe this is a rails or mongoid problem it is more ruby problem
<rking>
Oops, not quite.
<rking>
codespectator: Let me know if you come up with a pastie that is runnable.
<rking>
Part of asking for help is reducing the problem down to a minimal example. This saves time for the people helping you, and maybe 50% of the time you can come up with the answer by yourself through the process.
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<banisterfiend>
rking: did u get a chance to read that post
<codespectator>
rking: thanks for the advice, I have updated the pastie to a fuller example closer to what I am working with. This is as far as I can get and not sure I can take it much further
<codespectator>
I may well be approaching this problem all wrong
<rking>
banisterfiend: At only 50% depth. I still need to find a real chance to focus on it.
<banisterfiend>
np
<banisterfiend>
rking: can just skip to the conclusion anyway, which ahs the object diagram
<rking>
banisterfiend: Well, part of what I want to get from it is a better understanding of the Ruby internals calls.
<rking>
I kind of skim over them in general, so this doc gives me a chance to make sense of a few.
<banisterfiend>
ok
<banisterfiend>
rking: i wrote another series that might be more useful to u then
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<KarlFreeman>
It seems like RBAC is more prominent in libraries then DAC. Am I missing something by thinking that DAC makes more sense from an API's perspective ( eg the resources themselves knowing who can do what )
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<Synthead>
so here's a question. is there a way I can do something like my_function.config 'this', 'that'; my_fuction_start ?
<Synthead>
and have my_fuction hold some vars for the length of the script?
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<Alantas>
Not with a method as such, but you could do that with a class instance, or a module.
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<Synthead>
Alantas: ahhh, I'm reading through a classes tutorial right now. Looks excellent :) thanks!
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<dagobah>
I'm looking for a ruby snippet that will prove that a block is _not_ an object.
<dagobah>
I.E How can I call block.class to prove block is not an object?
<Hanmac>
with mruby you could generate bytecode like in Java :P XD
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<banisterfiend>
dagobah: why do you want to prove that?
<Hanmac>
dagobah: the block itself is not an object, but if you store it in a variable it turns into an proc wich is an object
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<dagobah>
banisterfiend: Huge argument with colleague, just want a one liner that will prove that it's syntactic sugar passed to Proc.
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<banisterfiend>
dagobah: let me show u a blog post
<banisterfiend>
yehuda wrote on this topic
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<banisterfiend>
dagobah: as far as implementation is concerned, iirc, a block IS a proc
<dagobah>
Really?
<banisterfiend>
it's just an implicit proc that's stored in the 'block slot' of a stack frame
<banisterfiend>
yes
<banisterfiend>
it has type Proc and everything
<dagobah>
I see.
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<dagobah>
But it's not an "object"?
<banisterfiend>
dagobah: but it's a semantic argument
<dagobah>
Or it is and it's of type Proc?
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<banisterfiend>
dagobah: even if i told you that in implementation it is an object of type Proc, it wouldn't be determinative
<banisterfiend>
because you could just write that off as implementation details
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<banisterfiend>
dagobah: i would just suggest reading yehuda's blog post
<banisterfiend>
i think he goes through all the arguments
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<banisterfiend>
and evan phoenix chimes in too
<banisterfiend>
who actually implemented this stuff in rbx
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<banisterfiend>
dagobah: ah, yehuda has proof that it is a Proc, actually, as the object_id is the same
<banisterfiend>
throughout &passing it on
<workmad3>
ah, is a block a proc?
<workmad3>
yehudas argument is that 'semantically, yes, but the VM may optimise things so that an actual proc object isn't created unless you request it'
<banisterfiend>
dagobah: "You can tell that blocks are not being semantically wrapped and unwrapped because blocks passed along via & share the same object_id across methods."
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<apeiros_>
banisterfiend: huh? that's a new development, no?
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<Hanmac>
workmad3 no, only if its stored in a variable
<apeiros_>
at least I'm pretty sure I tested that once, and it did not have the same id…
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<workmad3>
Hanmac: that's 'requesting' it ;)
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<workmad3>
Hanmac: basically, it's a proc when you look... if you don't look, then it might not actually have a proc object
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<banisterfiend>
i really dont care either way, but
<banisterfiend>
"These two mental models are perfectly valid (the first actually reflects Ruby’s internal implementation). I claim that those who want to use the first mental model have the heavy burden of introducing the new concept to the Ruby language of a non-object block, and that as a result, it should be generally rejected."
<workmad3>
^^
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<workmad3>
I agree with that one... it's simpler to think of it as a proc all the time
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<banisterfiend>
i just think of it as a proc inserted into the 'block slot' of the stack frame
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<workmad3>
heh :) you think more low-level than me
<Hanmac>
workmad3 you mean its like a photon? if you look its a particle and if you dont look its a wave? XD
<workmad3>
Hanmac: if you look, it's a particle, if you don't look, it doesn't matter :)
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<shevy>
we should call the property "behaves_like :particle and behaves_like :wave" as ... behaves_like :warticle
<shevy>
a warticle!
<shevy>
it is a warticle object
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<Hanmac>
xD
<shevy>
what I dont understand is
<shevy>
how a single photon can be a wave
<workmad3>
shevy: a single photon is both a wave and a particle
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<workmad3>
shevy: and you can basically treat it as either, depending on how your maths works best :)
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<workmad3>
shevy: how that's the case... I'm not sure anyone knows :)
<flip_digits>
shevy and it depends on 'how' you are observing the photon
<horseman>
i guess u had to be following the meme... :)
<shevy>
horseman you are meme addicted!
<horseman>
shevy: u r
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<spuz>
Hi, where can I find the documentation on the basic_auth method on the Net::HTTP::Get class?
<gift>
I have an array of hashes, x = [ { :name => "a", :val => 1 }, { :name => "b", :val => 2 } ]. How can i reference one of those hashes by the :name key without specifying an array element number? for instance, i do not want to have to do "x[0][:name]"
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<horseman>
spuz: right here: "Set the Authorization: header for "Basic" authorization."
<spuz>
horseman, IRC?
<Hanmac>
gift x.find {|e| e[:name] == "a"}
<gift>
Ah very good, thanks Hanmac
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<gilaniali>
hoelzro: so the each loop only works on arrays? can we use a for loop?
<hoelzro>
lectrick: when you create a class definition, self is the class in question within its scope
<hoelzro>
gilaniali: each works on Enumerables
<hoelzro>
you could do ( 0 .. lines ).each
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<hoelzro>
lectrick: so when you say '@foo' in a class definition, you're referring to an instance variable relative to the current self
<hoelzro>
namely, AttributeHolder
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<hoelzro>
(disclaimer: I am NOT a Ruby expert. just reading through "The Ruby Programming Language")
<marcusalmeida__>
hi guy! what's the last patch for 1.9.3 ?
<gilaniali>
hoelzro: ah. thanks. and just so I understand loops, how will this be done using a for loop? for i in range?
<lectrick>
hoelzro: ok, but why can't I access it from a self method defined in an instance method?
<lectrick>
hoelzro: no that's fine :)
<hoelzro>
gilaniali: I've never used a for loop in Ruby
<hoelzro>
lectrick: try @@what_is_this
<lectrick>
don't use for loops in Ruby. They are there as training wheels until you grok enumerations.
<hoelzro>
lectrick: because it's an instance variable on the class, not on objects of that class
<lectrick>
hoelzro: I know I can use a class attribute generally speaking but I'm wondering what the difference between @@what_is_this and @what_is_this which is set inside the class definition, is
<gilaniali>
hoelzro: lectrick: yeah thats what i though, it seems each/each do loops are more common in ruby code
<billiamii|>
Re: enumerators: how can I iterate over a slice of an array, while maintaining the original indices?
<lectrick>
hoelzro: if it's an instance variable of the class then calling "self" inside an instance method refers to the class, no?
<lectrick>
hoelzro: oh wait.
<lectrick>
hoelzro: ok it doesn't. it refers to the instance. but… hmmm hold on.
<hoelzro>
billiamii|: you mean something like enum.each_in_slice do |index, element| ... end?
<gilaniali>
hoelzro: thanks
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<hoelzro>
lectrick: there is no difference
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<lectrick>
ok i get it.
<billiamii|>
hoelzro, possibly. I'm not sure what I'd expect for a method like that
<shevy>
billiamii| can you rephrase and provide an example input and example output
<hoelzro>
@@foo is just shorthand for self.class.instance_variable.get(:foo)
<shevy>
the self.class.instance_variable.get(:name_here)
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<hoelzro>
shevy: the perspective of the learner affords much =)
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<shevy>
ohhhh
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<shevy>
now I understand why some people call these "class instance variable"
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<asdfqwer>
i'm stuck on a koan
<asdfqwer>
about_hashes.rb
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<asdfqwer>
35
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<shevy>
cool
<shevy>
and what made you stuck precisely there
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<asdfqwer>
assert_raise()
<asdfqwer>
line 26
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<dekroning>
when you have a Person object which also has an Address object, and the address object has street, city, etc. Is it then still concidered a train wreck to write: person.address.street ?
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<dekroning>
or should I do somethinglike person.street_address instead ?
<shevy>
dekroning well. I think it feels odd, because address suddenly is a method on the person
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<shevy>
how about...
<shevy>
Address.find person
<shevy>
or
<shevy>
hmm
<shevy>
indeed...
<shevy>
Person.home :\
<dekroning>
shevy: which would return Address object ?
<dekroning>
of his home address ?
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<shevy>
I guess so
<shevy>
then you can ask the address object where it resides
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: the person.address.street isn't bad... if address is in person...
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: but you sould probably create an additional object like... CustomerInformation or PersonInformation or whatever... which knows both the Person and the Address...
<dekroning>
i'm wondering when i'm violating the "tell, don't ask" principle when doing something like a = person.address; a.street
<shevy>
dekroning, that alone doesnt violate anything
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: ahh also intrestting point
<shevy>
you just use an extra variable
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: You got to understand the rational that creates the principles... Sometimes it's a good idea to break them....
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: :-)
<shevy>
whether you do foo.bar.bla or x = foo.bar, then x.bla, really makes no diference
<dekroning>
shevy: yeah that's true indeed
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: what you should try to avoid, is creating restrictions where there isn't a real one in the Domain...
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: could you elaborate more on that ?
<Tasser>
fgwaegeawgfwa, you need a pacman to clean up after you.
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: suppose you do person.home.telephoneNumber... then someone could tell you that it's a bad idea because you could some time after need to update your program, because a person may have a telephoneNumber without having a home...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
(That would be a homeless guy with a mobile phone xD) but anyways....
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
if you do person.telephoneNumber it works well, you can remove the home, or don't have one, and all is happy...
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<billiamii|>
I only need to iterate over a portion of an array, and using .slice means my index starts over at zero. Make sense?
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
if you do person.home.telephoneNumber... then you are "restricting" your model saying that... each home has a phone number, and a person must have a home to have a phone number... w
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
which is not true...
<shevy>
ok, so you specify a start position, and an extra argument to count
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<shevy>
billiamii| I am not sure there is something built in... there is .step but it kinda steps in regular intervals
<billiamii|>
shevy, yes. Count or end position would work fine.
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<horseman>
lectrick: what the hell, how does that work?
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<shevy>
billiamii| I think you may have to write your own method on Enumerator for that
<shevy>
if you need it only once, you could always use .each_with_index and only allow output of the desired results
<billiamii|>
Ok, as long as I'm not missing something obvious. Thanks.
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: for example i'm wondering if in the following cause, i'm making Parent also depandant on person having an address, and thus making it too smart: http://pastie.org/3966774
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: the problem isn't only making it too smart... but that your program doesn't "agree" with reality... and that can bring you troubles, specially if your requirements isn't fixed...
<Synthead>
is there a variable in ruby for the last returned value?
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: what problem are you trying to solve?
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: i'm making this "test" project, indeed to think as if the requirements could change
<Synthead>
like if I say "false", can I call a variable to get "false"?
<hoelzro>
Synthead: in a program, or in IRB/pry?
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: just trying to write well written code... wel well architected code :)
<erikstraub>
dekroning: why couldn't parent be a subclass of person?
<jeebster>
sythhead, write a method and return the value you desire
<jeebster>
ruby implicitly returns the last statement in a method, either way
<dekroning>
erikstraub: because then i'm really coupled to person class, which I don't want to
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
<erikstraub> dekroning: why couldn't parent be a subclass of person? ---> because that doesn't agree with reality either...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: what's your program about?
<erikstraub>
fgwaegeawgfwa: why not?
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<erikstraub>
fgwaegeawgfwa: that's a better question
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: what exactly do you mean with "doesn't agree with reality" ... in the sence that my code doesn't reflect all the flexibility which the real world might need ?
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: well, what I wanted to "write" and "test" is how, I could make like a object (parent) which would by my "domain model" and have it depend on two entity models which could be out side of the domain model (like the abstract Address and Person objects), hope that make sense
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
erikstraub: If parent is subclass of person then you are saying that there is a strict hard coded immutable relationship of "is" between parent and person...
<dekroning>
erikstraub: like a "parent" could also be an Animale, write fgwaegeawgfwa ?
<dekroning>
s/write/right/
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
erikstraub: that has a lot of consequences... some of are: 1: you can't have a parent that isn't a person... (That could break if you ever want to model the family of your dog, or dead people... Are dead people persons? Not Leaglly at least.. depending on what your program is, that might be a problem)
<erikstraub>
parent is a person? that would only not reflect reality if the domain had additional need for the concept of a 'parent'
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<dekroning>
erikstraub: so then I would be able todo p1 = Parent.new(Person.new) p2 = Parent.new(Animal.new)
<shevy>
even britney spears is a parent so pretty much everyone can be
<dekroning>
shevy: haha :)
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
erikstraub: 2: You are also saying that the relation is "immutable"... suppose you have a person Pete... that isn't a parent... but that can change after a while...
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<shevy>
I see we have found a sweet spot for discussions on #ruby now :)
<erikstraub>
fgwaegeawgfwa: i get it, just depends on the domain
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
so now, you'll have to change all instances to Pete instance of just person, for Pete instance of Parent...
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
which is "strange" and difficult sometimes...
<shevy>
haha
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
and can have a lot of unforseen complications...
<erikstraub>
fgwaegeawgfwa: could it not depend on a scope?
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
also, saying that someone is a "Parent" or not... it's a little anti-intuitive because Parent is closely related to a relationship....
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
the "Child" of a parent, is quite an important thing, you might want to model sometime... and you may want to model something of that relationship too...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
and if you model "Parent" as a static property, that becomes more difficult...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
it doesn't appear as a serious "problem" at first, but if your program start getting more complex, you'll start making lot of "hacks" or not so nice things...
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: so in my pastie example, what would be a better thing todo in my case? and that is, I want to know street_name and city of a parent
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
to patch up the fact that a Parent shouldn't be a subclass of Person, because reality doesn't work that way...
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: like shevy also says Address.find(person) which is also something i like
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: I'd have an object to represent the information of a person, and that object would have the address... and you could do information.address.street_name....
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
you might also want to consider, that some people will have none, or multiple addresses...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
Address.find(person) ---> this also "feels" strange to me... why is an Address related to a Person?
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<shevy>
:)
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<shevy>
in your example though you would create a new class
<shevy>
ContactInformation
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
shevy: yes...
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: well your injecting a object into find that responds to "street" and "city" so you wouldn't necerally have a Address related to a Person right ?
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
i tend to create a lot of small classes... millons of them, with very few methods...
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: that's actually also the route i'm trying to go now... lot's of small classes, but since I just started out this style, I get confused as to when exactly to use them, and how to call them for example :)
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: In my opinion, the thing that "relates" Address to Person is the contact information... the contact information tells you this person lives (or can be contacted) at this address...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: If you wanna go a little further, you could do AddressBook.find(Person)// this would return the ContactInformation of that person... and go on from that...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
if you start to think about it, that's what you'd do in real life...
<dekroning>
right, so would a Person class have a aggregation of ContactInformation classes ?
<fflush>
bonjour
<horseman>
fflush: hey can u give me ops pls
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
You pick up your address book, you search for the page with the contact information of that person, and on that page you have all the information you need...
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: ah right, so then ContactInformation would have an aggregaton of Address objects ?
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: No! the AddressBook will have a collection of ContactInformation instances... Or a dictionary from Person to ContactInformation or something like that
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: yes...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
think about real life...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
Think about it like this...
<fflush>
let's start with +v
<horseman>
fflush: heheh, do you own the chan?
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
Does it has sense to talk about a Person, if you don't know its contact information?
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<fflush>
maybe someday a +o ;)
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
If it has sense, then Person shouldn't "has" a contact information...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
Does it has sense to talk about a Contact Information without a Person? or an address?
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: no indeed, the responsbility of a Person should more be about what the Person it self is, not about his contact info
<fflush>
I guess so
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
not really, so a Contact Information needs to have a person and an address. (well you may argue that you may have contact information for a company or something like that)
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
so actually ContactInformation has a "Contact" that might be a person, a company, or the thing that you have information...
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: I was actually thining about company as well ;-)
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
And then you have the information, that in this case is the address, telephones, whatever...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
If I have a ContactInformation, that doesn't has a Contact... Then.... IT's stop being a contact information... it doesn't has "sense"...
<dekroning>
right! :-)
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
So it <has> to have (or know) the contact... the same for the information...
<dekroning>
intrestting
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<horseman>
fflush: are you still a ruby programmer?
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
an object A needs to know an object B... If "removing" B from A makes A don't have sense any more...
<fflush>
I am perl guy actually
<fflush>
but I am looking for enlightment
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: different question, you do TDD? I'm trying to tackle my stuff TDD wise at the moment (this "test" project i'm trying to make now) and then i'm really wondering which objects to start unit testing
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
That's the "purest" rule... You may sometimes break it... But it's a good idea knowing why you are breaking it... (generally because following it's too much in some cases that you know you won't need it)
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: In my opinion... TDD is great, if you do it properly...
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: And TDD isn't about unit tests... It's about Functional tests, or user story tests....
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: right, so now the question, when is it "properly" ? :)
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: so your talking mostly "integration tests" then ?
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
Why? Because how can you test a unit, if you don't know it will exist? or how it will behave?
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: I just write functional tests... Some of them are user stories, some of them are just for a single "unit"... But they are still functional...
<horseman>
fflush: haha, ok :)
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: Basically, try doing just black-box tests, and you'll be fine...
<rking>
I need to find some good vids of people doing Test-First Development. It's the hardcorest thing there is.
<rking>
(I learned the old fashioned way, but I keep finding myself wanting to explain it to other people on the net)
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: but then i'm thinking about, all the dependencies one most include to run some tests
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: dependencies? what?
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: for example when I started my "integration test" i would like to write something that form a Parent object, I can ask it's street name and city for example. But now in the short talk, we discovered already a couple of additional objects we would need, to best store this information
<rking>
dekroning: That's why you mock things out.
<dekroning>
rking: in the integration tests you don't want to mock
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<rking>
Right, no, I'm coming into the conversation late.
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
note that even though AddressBook has an Add method, and a Collection of "Contact information"... <IT'S NOT> a Collection, and shouldn't subclass a collection class... The collection will be a member...
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: member being a field ?
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: a field... or may be something more indirect...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
if A has B and B has C and C has D... then you can say that A know B,C and D...
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
if A directly has a B a C or a D is more an implementation thing... The important thing is that there is a one-to-one association... or one-to-many(and the direction) or whatever kind of association/relationship you have...
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: right, like in my pastie, Parent knows Address via Person
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
that's why I say "knows" instead of has.... <has> has a connotation of ownership and directness, that I don't wish to imply...
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: I was wondering how you would draw this relationship, e.g. again my pastie example. would you also draw a dependancy arrow from Parent to Address ?
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
saying that a Person has a House, usually means that if the person "disappears" the house disappears too... But you may have another persone which "has" the same house... So that's might not be "true"...
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: I'd draw an an arrow from AddressBook to multiple instances ContactInformation... each ContactInformation instance will have an arrow to a Person (or a company or whateveer), and to an address, etc...
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: so you would also draw arrows towards indirect relationships
<dekroning>
?
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: yes... a relationship being direct or indirect (if it doesn't change the multiplicity) is an implementation detail...
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
So A knows a single B and B knows a single C... You can also say that A knows a single C without any problem...
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: ok great :-) man, sucks I have to leave in a couple of minutes :(
<workmad3>
transitive closures :)
<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: thanks a lot for your information and enlightment on the topic
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
workmad3: something like that, but I'm not sure if all closures are actually always valid...
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<workmad3>
fgwaegeawgfwa: in fairness, a relationship like that doesn't necessarily have transitive properties
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<workmad3>
for example, you know me (by IRC) and I know my sister... but you don't know my sister
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
workmad3: that's a different "know" relationship...
<fgwaegeawgfwa>
you certanly aren't a field of mine :)
<workmad3>
wasn't entirely sure on the context ):
<workmad3>
:)
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<dekroning>
fgwaegeawgfwa: your here more often?
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<fgwaegeawgfwa>
dekroning: sometimes...
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<shevy>
hehehe
<shevy>
best answer :)
<shevy>
workmad3 where are the pics of ur sister
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<dekroning>
shevy: lol :)
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<shevy>
dekroning, well he mentioned that first!
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<dekroning>
:-)
<shevy>
he is guilty for the idea kinda. now if he would have mentioned teletubbies instead...
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<dekroning>
shevy: i know exactly what you mean ;-)
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<shevy>
dekroning we need to find out more
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<dekroning>
shevy: indeed, he got suspiciously quite
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<shevy>
hehehe exactly!
<Synthead>
hoelzro: in a script she'banged with #!/usr/bin/env ruby, if it matters. I'm thinking of something like $_ in bash
<dekroning>
need to go guys, thanks all, ttyl
<shevy>
who she banged with now
<dekroning>
shevy: when I get back, tell me the rest of the story... so you can forward me the pics
<shevy>
hehe
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<workmad3>
shevy: but I don't know the teletubbies :P
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<shevy>
yeah but you know ur sister!
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<elux>
hey guys
<elux>
how can i redirect STDOUT/STDERR in ruby of a daemon?
<elux>
ahh .. STDOUT.reopen .. cool
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<gks>
I was hoping someone could possibly point me to a way that i could load an external ruby script, and effectively import it. Then via some type of introspection find the name of the class inside that script that was just imported
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<gks>
i realize the "load" method in Kernel will load and execute the script, but not sure if that is what i want to do. I would like to load the file and then be able to create an instance of the class inside it and create an instance of it. the tricky part is that the class name will be unknown at launch time
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<robacarp>
you know whats irritating is when ruby-debug doesn't trigger because you're debug statement doesn't have a statement after it.
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<codebeaker>
robacarp: indeed, i mapped a vim command to `debugger; 1+1`
<codebeaker>
stupid, but it works
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<robacarp>
I usually put "puts :doom" on the next line....I like the 1+1 thing better though because when I foget to take it out its not going to shout 'doom' at me ...or maybe that is _why_ I put it like that, so I don't forget...
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<gks>
no ideas on the easiest way to load files with classes at runtime and obtain those classnames?
<gks>
i'm not asking for the work, just a pointer in the right direction
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<gks>
while i can get around in Ruby, this one is a bit outside my realm of knowledge and just need a shove in the right direction
<robacarp>
gks, I would adopt some sort of standardization...
<gks>
robacarp: right, the idea here is that they're going to be "test" cases. a tad bit more complicated than using UnitTests, but in the same idea
<LiquidInsect>
'require' should return a list of newly-defined class names, though I don't think it'll tell if what you just required monkeypatched some other class
<gks>
so basically the classname will be unknown, in an unknown file, BUT the methods inside these classes will all be the same
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<robacarp>
this sounds like a bad idea...
<gks>
robacarp why's that?
<robacarp>
I dunno, arbitrarly executing code just seems like a security vulnerability...maybe thats just me though
<gks>
robacarp: understood, it isn't going to be user driven though
<gks>
ideally no user will ever see the internals of this. the point is to make it easier for us to extend
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<shevy>
gks how can you determine the classnames?
<billiamii|>
Can your class names not map to filenames?
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<shevy>
if you know the name of the class, or have some other reference to them, you can instantiate it
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<gks>
billiamii|: ah, good point, that would be ideal and expected
<robacarp>
yea. I mean, ideally then your libraries should be packaged up and signed with a key, but you still should adopt some sort of standardization so as to correlate the filename to the classes within.
<shevy>
otherwise, if you dont know the name, I dont know how you wanna call em
<billiamii|>
what robacarp said.
<gks>
robacarp: they will be signed and packaged using Gate Keeper
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<gks>
basically all of this is going on behind the scenes and packaged in a OS X app
<robacarp>
gks, I_suppose_ that you could also put in a sort of manifest .yml or something [aside, this internet connection is so bloody laggy..sorry for any typos I don't fix]
<gks>
the user clicks a button and the scripts get executed
<gks>
robacarp: yea, ideally i'd like it to just plug and go. create a file, add the test routines and blamo. i can repackage and upload
<gks>
not that a manifest.yml file would be difficult to manage though, so definitely another option
<robacarp>
then favor some sort of standard, and anything outside that standard is considered broken.
<gks>
robacarp: define standard?
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<gks>
i think i grasp what you're saying, but i want to be sure
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<robacarp>
uh...a system you follow for class names / file names. (e.g. my_exploit_for_your_software.rb contains a class called MyExploitForYourSoftware)
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<gks>
right, that is already figured out
<gks>
which now gives me a way to find the class name
<robacarp>
uh huh
<gks>
inside the class is all standardized too. The class will include a Module that contains all of the guts to run the test. it will expect certain methods to be present
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<gks>
sorry if i sound inept... trying to learn here :-/
<robacarp>
gks are you writing a desktop application in rubyonrails?
<gks>
no
<gks>
the desktop component will simply execute the scripts.. it's part of a diagnostics package. it gathers system information
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<gks>
mac os version, the version of our software, system.log, etc.
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<robacarp>
I ask because, "GateKeeperis a Ruby on Rails plugin providing a natural language DSL to manage security permissions on instances of ActiveRecord classes"
<gks>
it helps us track down issues with the software
<gks>
nope, when I said Gate Keeper, I meant the OS X Lion/ML Gate Keeper
<robacarp>
ah, okay.
<gks>
so technically, the application shouldn't run if the contents of the package don't match the signed package we put up and refuse to run
<gks>
or some crazy gobble-de-gunk like that. my understanding is the whole package is signed. including resources. since the ruby stuff would be part of the resources in the app they should have to match too
<gks>
thus, no security issues because it will come directly from us and be signed
<robacarp>
yea, I haven't read into using osx gatekeeper, but that is likely the case...it got decent reviews from sec people. I still think loading and executing code on the client is a bad idea...because hackers will hack.
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<robacarp>
but if its in ruby its probably pretty trivial to modify the script anyway.
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<gks>
right
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<gks>
that was my thinking, it's plain text.. if a hacker can bypass Gate Keeper... then what's the big deal between editing our scripts directly to do malicous things vs just including a file that we arbitrarily run
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<gks>
i certainly get your point though. I will discuss with our security expert on staff and see if he has any insight in whether this is all moot with gate keeper or if i need to re-evaluate
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<robacarp>
I think it also depends on what a malicous user could gain by exploiting your stack...via included scripts or by modifying the code directly.
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<robacarp>
if its purely a diagnostic routine for something else that you already server, then who cares ...they'renot likely to gain anything by exploiting.
<robacarp>
but if , for example, they could use the code at hand to discern a way to DOS some server of yours, you might have a problem.
<robacarp>
damn thi sinternet!
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<gks>
security expert says i need to re-evaluate *sigh*
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<robacarp>
heh.
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<gks>
so, you're right, something has to change
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<robacarp>
if you don't mind the whole world knowing, what are you diagnosing with this scripting work?
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<gks>
without being too obvious, we make a Mac app that has a few "working parts" that can sometimes become out of sync
<gks>
basically a Safari/Firefox/Chrome extension that communicates with our main application
<gks>
what i was hoping was that i could easily check for software versions, if they're not up to date then tell the user to update
<gks>
then possibly get more extensive, like check system.log for certain strings of errors
<robacarp>
you might just be able to do that within the extensions themselves
<gks>
basically automating some of the "we see this, you fix it this way" stuff
<gks>
we can, but not all of it
<robacarp>
well, I bet chrome won't let you out into the system that way.
<robacarp>
yea.
<gks>
the other part is that we want to be able to ahve the user generate a report for us
<gks>
the report would allow them to send the info to us to see
<gks>
the tests would've been used to help the user self-help themselves
<gks>
and reduce our inflow of customer support
<gks>
if the tests didn't help them, then it would generate a report (html file) that they can submit to us to look at
<robacarp>
yea.
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<robacarp>
I would box all that up into the osx application, personally.
<gks>
we are
<gks>
but for ease of updating, we would like it to be ruby
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<gks>
doing all of this stuff in Cocoa is a real PITA
<robacarp>
yes
<robacarp>
been there.
<gks>
sounds like you might be able to tell GateKeeper which files need to be signed
<gks>
so there may be hope
<robacarp>
[brackets [on brackets]] or something....
<robacarp>
gks are you using macruby?
<gks>
nope
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<robacarp>
does 1.8.7 still come packaged with the newer osx's?
<gks>
just plain ol Cocoa for the main interface and ruby for the report generating right now.. but the current ruby script is a pile of junk that has grown to be a real pain to update. so.. my job to rewrite it
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<gks>
Lion uses 1.8.7
<gks>
not sure what ML has as i haven't checked just yet
<robacarp>
I doubt they've changed it.
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<gks>
that would be my guess too
<gks>
the real trouble is i know just enough ruby to be dangerous
<gks>
so a lot of what i'm doing requires some learning
<robacarp>
heh. well thats the best way to learn...by doing.
<gks>
so, i truly appologize if i am sounding a dunce
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<gks>
the idea was to have two ruby scripts, one that executes the tests, then outputs the results to a file (JSON or something) and then the Cocoa app can read it and present the data to the user
<gks>
this would primarily be for simple things they can fix on their own and for common things we see all the time
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<gks>
if that doesn't help then a second script gets run to generate a more extensive report of system info that we can use for troubleshooting
<robacarp>
yea, makes sens.
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<robacarp>
theres is a view my account thing in there...just found it.
<gks>
the key is remembering to change it.... instead of creating a new one.. i can't tell you the number of times people create a new one and expect their apps to be moved over too :)
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<robacarp>
okay, I'm on app store, just updated my email address.
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<lectrick>
How do I count the number of times a certain element appears in an array?
<Rubinista>
bambanx: I just want to know what the specific issue was. Though code would answer that.
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<Rubinista>
rking: Do you see what I mean?
<elux>
im looking to create a proxy object on the fly.. something like x = Struct.new(:constructor_var) { def puts(msg); constructor_var(msg); end } something = x.new
<elux>
any suggestions? does that look good?
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<elux>
that seems to work..
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<Synthead>
is there a way in ruby to block a port? like something internal to ruby, not iptables-related?
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<rking>
Rubinista: I get \и \и \x \X when I run (1.9.3 on Linux)
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<robacarp>
Synthead: ruby isn't responsible for allowing/disallowing ports, the host operating system is.
<Rubinista>
rking: Do you have windows available? (I don't habve Ruby1.9.3 on Linux, and the issue code is meant for windows test clients anyways.)
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<rking>
Rubinista: No. =\
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<robacarp>
eewindows
<Rubinista>
Yeah, heh
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<ctevie>
hey, there. I'm a total ruby noob and trying to build a rakefile for using uglyfier ... and on top of that on Windows. My problem is that I get a "rake aborted" file "C:\Program " not found... when i try to use uglyfier
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<ctevie>
can I find out from which variable this value is coming from?
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<robacarp>
ctevie: gist code, somebody will look at it.
<robacarp>
I wager you're missing a set of quotes
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<Rubinista>
elux: So you'd then say proxy = x.new ; proxy.constructor_var = thing_to_be_proxied ; proxy.foo(args) and it should call thing_to_be_proxies.foo(args)?
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<Rubinista>
ctevie: Use \progra~1\ style paths?
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<ctevie>
robacarp Rubinista nevermind. I fixed the problem by checking not only the user-dirs in PATH but also the global ones. some just had no quotes around dirnames with spaces.
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<Rubinista>
Does anyone have Ruby 1.9.3 on Windows? Can you run http://pastie.org/3967996 and see if you get the same results?
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<Rubinista>
ctevie: That says it's a cmdline thing. This happens from a file.
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<ctevie>
Rubinista: that's all I found.
<Rubinista>
ctevie: Yeah, okay.
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<nwo6>
Is any one there
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<shevy>
lol
<shevy>
even 671 in the channel
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<seanstickle>
We're all out at dinner.
<seanstickle>
Check back tomorrow.
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<cek>
Will invoking the same method in the same context be optimized out to 1 such method invokation and "referecing" the result through local var?
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<Rubinista>
cek: def test ; something_expensive(); something_expensive() ; end ... will it call something_expensive() twice? Yes. It can't tell if you want any side-effects in that method so unless you specifically cache the result it can't help you.
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<cek>
Rubinista, that ain't an expensive method, but it accesses external of method data
<cek>
method doesnt take any args
<Rubinista>
You mean yours isn't expensive but touches (reads?) external data or resources?