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<shevy>
blazes816 it is quite strange
<shevy>
it allows for terseness, or you can save at least one more line
<shevy>
but it kinda reads strange
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<Pip>
So Rubygems is a equivalent to Python pip, right?
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<Norrin>
it's a code repository. no idea what pipis
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<havenn>
Pip: Similar in purpose.
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<Pip>
okay
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<havenn>
Pip: RubyGems implements update, list, etc.
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<shevy>
Pip probably some minor differences exist. what rubygems allows the user is to install ruby-addons fairly easily, and puts them into ruby's SITE_DIR path, wherever that is (`gem env`)
<havenn>
Pip: imho, pip should be more like gem - would really benefit from same ideas
<havenn>
pip update; pip list; etc would be hugely useful
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<havenn>
Pip: I know there is a long-lived pull request for update/upgrade, but merge eet!!!
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<havenn>
Does pip need a maintainer? NOT IT!
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<shevy>
hmm I have this... hash.sort_by {|key,value| key}, this gives me an array in an array
<shevy>
like, ["ZhoI", "ATCGAT 2"], the original was { "ZhoI" => "ATCGAT 2" }
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<Pip>
havenn, What NOT IT?
<shevy>
is there a way to chain that, and turn that array into a hash again?
<shevy>
ah
<shevy>
Hash[*] works
<Pip>
Actually I know nothing about python-pip
<fyolnish>
sorted hash?
<havenn>
Pip: Oh, I was calling 'not it', never mind. My Python-fu isn't up-to-par...
<shevy>
fyolnish hmmm not sure what I want is possible, I am on 1.8.7 again :(
<fyolnish>
hashes do not have an order
<shevy>
I think in 1.9.x the hashes are kept the way
<shevy>
hmm not?
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<fyolnish>
at least it's not guaranteed afaik
<fyolnish>
you might get lucky sometimes
<shevy>
luck is bad for coding, I am way too unlucky too many times :D
<shevy>
heisenbugs haunt me
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<fyolnish>
activesupport has orderedhash (in case you're using rails)
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<fyolnish>
(and ruby 1.9 seems to preserve insertion order)
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<yfeldblum>
ruby 1.9 guarantees to iterate the keys of a hash in insertion order
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<yfeldblum>
ruby 1.8 happens to iterate the keys of a hash in bucket order
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<havenn>
I look forward to July, so we can just day 1.8 is deprecated!
<havenn>
s/day/say
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<havenn>
Love the simple data structure speed increase with 2.0.0, March ftw.
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<halph>
i have a big giant json object. is there any smart way to go about making it more ruby accessible than just json.parse? basically i want to be able to get 10 levels deep into it without having to do one.two.three.four.five...
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<jblack>
maybe it's silly, but maybe you could just store a series of smaller json objects instead
<LittleFoot>
halph, BRO!
<LittleFoot>
write your own parser bro
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<LittleFoot>
lern C is a good way to start thinking parse mode
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<halph>
haha
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<halph>
jblack: yeah i think that's probably what im gonna end up doing. been looking at other api helper plugins that access JSON and that seems to be what they do generally.
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<Skylab>
been a couple years since I've been on IRC.
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<dimadima>
shevy: for now i'm just running redmine. but it was a drag to set up because of ubuntu peculiariaties. i'm not entirely ignorant, but i'm also kinda green
<shevy>
well
<dimadima>
yeah i'm checking that site out. thanks for the leads/advice shevy
<shevy>
the other way is to struggle within ubuntu
<postmodern>
dimadima, rvm should work just fine
<shevy>
dimadima, Hanmac here is a die-hard ubuntu fan, you can ask him about debian/ubuntu (when he is awake... he is probably sleeping right now)
<dimadima>
postmodern: cool, thanks
<shevy>
so Hanmac is proof that one can use ruby on debian/ubuntu :)
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<pdtpatrick>
dimadima: if ur using Rubymine - then RVM works just well with it. It detects your versions and gemsets
<pdtpatrick>
gemsets are quite handy
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<RubyPanther>
bundler mostly means not needing gemsets
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<Joe0>
hello?
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<Joe0>
can anyone help me?
<pdtpatrick>
RubyPanther: is that true? Because with gemsets if i switch to another gemset or go back to global, i won't have the same gems whereas i believe bundler installs the gems and you'll have to remove the gems if u no longer needed
<yfeldblum>
bundler means the resolved dependencies are either noted or vendored in the application's source control
<dimadima>
gemsets, cool
<carlzulauf>
pdtpatrick: I think RubyPanther mostly just means that bundler helps resolve issues and conflicts caused by multiple versions of various gems installed... it will make sure the right one is used and install any that aren't installed
<Joe0>
how to make a code for this sample output?
<carlzulauf>
it does something very very different than gemsets, but solves many of the same problems gemsets try to solve
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<pdtpatrick>
carlzulauf: that's what i thought but i figured i
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<pdtpatrick>
i'd ask in case i've been using it wrong all this time
* Hanmac_
does not have problems with bundler and gem sets ... because he is using nothing of them
<pdtpatrick>
splain yourself
<pdtpatrick>
:)
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<carlzulauf>
i still like gemsets though... the help keep projects isolated. i know if there are 2 version of a gem installed in a gemset its probably because the Gemfile/Gemfile.lock was modified.
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<Joe0>
how to make a code for the volume of a sphere and for the volume of a pyramid using if else conditional statement? plz help
<carlzulauf>
not because a slightly different version is used by another app, since that app is in its own gemset
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<Joe0>
how to make a code for the volume of a sphere and for the volume of a pyramid using if else conditional statement? plz help
<Mon_Ouie>
No need to repeat that.
<Mon_Ouie>
Why would you use conditionals for that? It's simply a matter of applying a math formula given the dimensions of your object
<Joe0>
yea i have the formula but in this case
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<Joe0>
i need to combined it using c function
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<Joe0>
#include<stdio.h> float sphere(){float A,r; printf("Input the radius of a sphere:"); scanf("%f",&r); A=4*3.1416*r*r; printf("\n The area of sphere is %.2f",A); return 0;
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<Mon_Ouie>
Well, you can write a C extension. That'd just be more work than simply rewriting the formula in Ruby
<Hanmac_>
(but when you run it, an C ext is faster than pure ruby ... )
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<yfeldblum>
carlzulauf, meh, anywhere i can use bundler, i haven't got much use for gemsets
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<yfeldblum>
carlzulauf, i mean, if you look at the gems in a gemset, you can see that some were updated ... but why not just look at the history of Gemfile.lock in git?
<carlzulauf>
my favorite feature of RVM works well with gemsets, so that's why i've grown to use them... .rvmrc files
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<carlzulauf>
i love having project specific ruby versions. jruby for one project, 1.8 for the other, 1.9.2/1.9.3 for others. never have to type anything, the ruby and gemset is changed when I enter the project directory
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* Hanmac_
loves to not supporting 1.8
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<invariant>
If I run system("wget " + url) where url="http://" + couldbeanythingaslongas URI.parse accepts it, is that a security problem?
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<carlzulauf>
invariant: hopefully not, but probably. I don't URI.parse was meant to be used for security like that
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<yfeldblum>
invariant, yes
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<invariant>
carlzulauf, is there a version of system which just takes a list of arguments?
<carlzulauf>
invariant: case in point: URI.parse("file:///home/carl/generated_addresses.txt")
<yfeldblum>
invariant, always avoid interpolating system commands with user inputs
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<invariant>
carlzulauf, did you see the prepended http I added?
<invariant>
carlzulauf, perhaps with an additional space your example would work.
<carlzulauf>
the space should cause it to fail parsing
<invariant>
yfeldblum, yes, but I still want to call wget in some way.
<yfeldblum>
invariant, you *may* use `system("wget", url)`, since that doesn't do interpolation
<invariant>
yfeldblum, ok, so in general system(command, arg1, arg2,arg3)
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<yfeldblum>
invariant, however, you will want to take some precautions with the url (enforce http:// or https://, etc)
<carlzulauf>
any reason why you don't want to use Net::HTTP?
<invariant>
yfeldblum, is there also a version like system(command, [arg1, arg2])
<yfeldblum>
invariant, yes to the first, no to the second
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<yfeldblum>
invariant, but if you have a list of args in the variable named `arguments`, then you can `system("wget", *arguments)`
<invariant>
yfeldblum, ok, thanks.
<yfeldblum>
invariant, also, why do you want to use wget?
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<invariant>
yfeldblum, because it works, but no other particular reason.
<invariant>
yfeldblum, a pure Ruby suggestion is welcome.
<carlzulauf>
it does give a nice progress bar if you're using ruby for some shell scripting... otherwise I'd recommend using URI.open/Net::HTTP
<invariant>
yfeldblum, this is not for anything high-performance and starting a process is 10000 times faster than the work it needs to do.
<carlzulauf>
there are also gems to interface with curl
<carlzulauf>
like curb
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<invariant>
Is there some library which takes an url and return tar.gz if that's its suffix (and then that for other common suffices)?
<invariant>
I think lots of libraries simply return .gz in that case.
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<carlzulauf>
invariant: there are lots of ways you can look at the existing file extension and use that with pretty much any of the libraries
<invariant>
carlzulauf, I am not asking for an algorithm.
<carlzulauf>
you can also use the mime type if the extension isn't present, or even if it is
<invariant>
carlzulauf, either there already is such a thing, or there isn't.
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<invariant>
carlzulauf, if there isn't the answer is 'no', otherwise the answer is 'yes, for example Foo::fun'.
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<carlzulauf>
well, way to be a jerk while simultaneously pigeonholing the gems. none of the libs download anything without at least a few lines.
<carlzulauf>
some of them might have a method that tries to guess the correct extension. i don't know
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<carlzulauf>
the answer isn't a simple yes or no. any of them can. i don't know which it would be easiest with
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<invariant>
There is no reason to download anything to determine the extension of an url like I specified.
<carlzulauf>
there is if it doesn't have one
<invariant>
That would mean there would have to be a special value which indicates such absence.
<invariant>
Different programming languages solve that differently.
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<carlzulauf>
i'm not sure what you mean, but given a url like http://example.com/doc/12345/ there is no way to know what kind of file it is until you request it and get the Content-Type header from the server
<carlzulauf>
even if the file has an extension, you might not be able to trust it
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<carlzulauf>
but parsing the extension from a URI is a different concern from downloading a URI, so those libraries may not have much to help... havne't used them all though
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<invariant>
I got it to work (and some other stuff already)
<invariant>
Is there something that returns 32 when this is a 32 bits systems and 64 when ... ?
<invariant>
Is there an actual good reason for the various alternative libraries for the same purpose?
<hemanth_>
>> %i{this is a list of symbols}
<eval-in>
hemanth_: Output: "/tmp/execpad-5fe5e4ae2ae1/source-5fe5e4ae2ae1:1: unknown type of %string\n%i{this is a list of symbols}\n ^\n" (http://eval.in/6656)
<hemanth_>
that is from ruby 2.0 ;)
<invariant>
It's not as bad as in some other languages and in general I haven't had much trouble with libraries not working in Ruby (just the way I like it).
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<carlzulauf>
invariant: different libraries work differently and serve a different niche. httparty is great for interacting with http apis, net/http is just the basics, curb if you need full blown curl features and want your app to masquerade as a browser easily, etc.
<carlzulauf>
its not like they are clones of each other. some are built for performance, others simplicity, others just because the author thought the existing interface was less than perfect
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<Hanmac_>
ezkl & invariant: my system has also combinded content types ... (match from file name) so an ".tar" is "application/x-tar" and ".gz" is "application/x-gzip", but my system does recognise ".tar.gz" as "application/x-compressed-tar"
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<Hanmac_>
invariant: other sample about different libraries: there is rexml in the stdlib, but nokogiri has nicer features
<invariant>
Hanmac_, re is faster?
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<Hanmac_>
i did not say that because i did not know
<invariant>
Hanmac_, nokogiri is great in my experience, but I haven't used it on big inputs.
<invariant>
I would prefer it if it has xpath2.0 support.
<ezkl>
Nokogiri is much, much faster
<invariant>
I think xpath3 already is in the works, but nobody has properly implemented even xpath2.0.
<invariant>
I think I tried libraries written in about 5 different languages and they all were not according to spec.
<invariant>
Lots of libraries are also not robust to slightly broken input.
* Hanmac_
writes bindings itself ... with them ruby can be EXTREMLY fast ...
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<invariant>
Hanmac_, are you an it?
<carlzulauf>
nokogiri is also better at handling less-than-perfect documents
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<ezkl>
carlzulauf: Indeed.
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<Hanmac_>
invariant: i am not an nokogiri author, but i wrote other bindings
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<invariant>
Hanmac_, I mean that most people would refer to himself or herself. Only robots would perhaps be its.
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<invariant>
Hanmac_, yes, it's nice if you can write bindings, because then you can pick the best available in every language.
<invariant>
Although, often there are copying costs involved.
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<invariant>
E.g. to go from a Ruby string to a C string is probably going to need a copy?
<Hanmac_>
invariant i also wrote them for others ... but because of the limited time per day (f**k you RL) they are mostly workign but unfinished
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<Hanmac_>
invariant: you CAN access the charPtr of the Ruby String, but i prefer not to change them directly (i used std::string or <Library>::String)
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<invariant>
Is there also an equivalent of tar xzf for Ruby?
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<Hanmac_>
invariant yes and no ... i have an binding for libarchive ... but the development is currrently frozen and it does currently not working :/ :(
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<Hanmac_>
carlzulauf i maybe make today an commit (to show activity) ... and i hope i did not scare you with my code :P
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<atmosx>
my github account says that I contributed to "octopress" but I can't remember that happening.
<atmosx>
I never issued a pull request hm
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<carlzulauf>
Hanmac_: I'm still trying to wrap my head around gosu and the assortment of related tools I didn't know existed
<carlzulauf>
haven't really looked at the code
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<Hanmac_>
carlzulauf: you should beware that i am an evil ruby coder ... and with C/C++ comined my code only gets more "Naughty" :P, so be not afraid when you see something like macro_attr(Text,String) in my bindings
<carlzulauf>
mostly C code :-P the ruby code all looks pretty straight-forward
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<carlzulauf>
i'm guessing test/media/ files are in some Ogre specific DSL?
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<Hanmac_>
yeah
<atmosx>
bbl
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<carlzulauf>
makes sense to use as much C as possible... i'm just not comfortable in C/C++ yet
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<Hanmac_>
the methods of my binding are mostly C++ methods with C++ freatures (like exception handling) but i use C-Macros to generate them
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<shevy>
carlzulauf next language I will learn will be C
<shevy>
I gave up on java, it bores me to no end
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<arturaz>
shevy, have you tried scala?
<Quadlex>
now you have two problems
<shevy>
hmm I think it is too similar to other scripting languages
<shevy>
arturaz, my hope with C is that I can help out more in other areas, like ruby-gnome bindings
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<hoelzro>
C is definitely worth knowing
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<hoelzro>
both as a learning experience, and as a tool
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<Hanmac_>
if you learned C, C++ is easy to learn too
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<rking>
s/, /, much of/
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<rking>
I doubt even Bjarne Stroustrup knows all of C++.
<rking>
He probably picks up TC++PL and is like, "Huh, I didn't know that was in there."
<charliesome>
rking: "what the fuck were you lot on?"
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<rking>
LOL yeah
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<wildcard0>
heyas
<workmad3>
rking: Y U NO LIEK C++? :(
<rking>
workmad3: Relative to what?
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<workmad3>
I dunno... java? :P
<wildcard0>
oh i have things i dont like about c++
<rking>
Now you've got me in a corner. At least Java has GC.
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<wildcard0>
but that can be said about most languages
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<wildcard0>
java has a GC, but that GC can cause huge problems
<rking>
But Java is one of my favorite things to hate.
<workmad3>
rking: and C++ has reference-counted smart-pointers
<charliesome>
the problem with c++ is that you start using it thinking "yeah i'll just stick to a nice friendly subset"
<charliesome>
then before you know it you've blown your foot off and half of your code is in header files
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<workmad3>
charliesome: nah, that's not really a problem unless you're a real newcomer to coding and can't keep your code organised
<workmad3>
charliesome: the real problem is that you think 'I know, I can solve this with a 5 line template and some real genius' and introduce 2000 lines of error output
<rking>
workmad3: Can you think of an OSS project that uses those to good effect?
<workmad3>
rking: it's been ages since I've looked at any C++
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<rking>
That just sounds too good to be true.
<workmad3>
rking: I'm just acting as the troll here ;)
<wildcard0>
java is designed that way so that mediocre people can write in it
<workmad3>
rking: they've been in boost for yonks, they're now part of the stdlib, and the implementation is pretty damn solid I believe
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<rking>
workmad3: Yeah. I mean, you can do a bit with dtors and stuff, and it's an example of something that is better in C++ than C's equivalent of "manually check for exceptions, free(), then return", but it sounds like it'd be imperfect.
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<rking>
I mean, there's nothing that stops you from using a GC engine in C++
<wildcard0>
or using free() in c++
<rking>
Same as with regexps. You can just include pcre and you've got the same power as Ruby. But since you have to have another lib, and since the syntax is going to be suboptimal, people don't bother.
<workmad3>
rking: it's building on the idea of RAII, smart use of copy-constructors, destructors and the automatic cleanup of stack objects when they move out of scope
<workmad3>
rking: the book Modern C++ Design has a lot of detail on how to create smart pointers if you need your own custom versions too :)
<charliesome>
workmad3: a language shouldn't make it *that* hard to keep your code organise
<rking>
Oops, typed that before I read what you said. Yep.
<rking>
Yeah, we're well into the Turing Tarpit, here.
<workmad3>
it's not that surprising, if you think about it though
<workmad3>
each smart pointer is simply a container, it knows nothing about other smart pointers
<rking>
You "can" write code that gives you a decently high-level control in C++, but I've never yet seen anyone do it.
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<rking>
Yeah, it's not surprising. And there is boost::weak_ptr. It's just also 2012 and not the kind of thing I want to think about while writing code.
<rking>
Urr, 2013. haha
<workmad3>
yeah, it's not the sort of crap you want to think about in most applications :)
<invariant>
Modern C++ can look a lot like Ruby.
<rking>
Something that puzzles me, too, is how long it takes Boost to compile. Same with glibc. Why are these libs that provide one thousandth of the functionality of a HLL so enormous?
<rking>
invariant: URL of a repo or it didn't happen.
<workmad3>
rking: why do you think boost provides one thousandth of the functionality?
<invariant>
rking, pretty much everything in boost is high-level, imho.
<workmad3>
rking: have you actually looked at what is in boost?
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<rking>
The Mozilla codebase is the biggest OSS C++ thing I know, and it's only getting stable in the last few years.
<invariant>
Boost is high-level and extremely efficient.
<wildcard0>
id love to see a c++ codebase that looks like ruby
<workmad3>
rking: I mean, there's a goddamn python runtime in boost!
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<hoelzro>
workmad3: is it a runtime? I thought it was an "easy Python binding generator"
<workmad3>
hoelzro: ah, that could be it
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<invariant>
Using a GC means that some systems cannot work on it efficiently.
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<hoelzro>
I remember looking at it a while ago
<rking>
invariant: What project makes good use of it, though?
<workmad3>
either way... not some tiny, insignificant bit of functionality... and that's just one tiny bit of it
<invariant>
rking, I imagine that every large company does internally.
<rking>
workmad3: Yeah, I'm definitely exaggerating on that number. It's just a really really long compile, though.
<invariant>
rking, you cannot not use C++ these days.
<rking>
invariant: Why would there be no decent OSS C++ examples?
<workmad3>
rking: yeah, the other thing to remember is that this sort of stuff is the foundation other things build on
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<invariant>
rking, I said that boost is OSS.
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<rking>
I could paste links to Ruby repos for hours that are written well enough that reading its source has lessons to be learned.
<invariant>
rking, and Boost also uses Boost sometimes.
<wildcard0>
i work at a fairly large company. and our c++ looks nothing like ruby
<wildcard0>
it looks more like c++
<workmad3>
wildcard0: as it should ;)
<invariant>
wildcard0, that's because at a large company there is an average low IQ.
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<rking>
invariant: That's too meta. If the idea is sound, there should be at least *one* OSS example that's not mangled.
<workmad3>
what is this obsession that people have with making one language look like another?
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<invariant>
rking, in my experience lots of OSS is of low-quality too.
<wildcard0>
that's possible. i tend to believe it's the lowest IQ of the group divided by the number of people in the group
<charliesome>
workmad3: btw i looked into it
<rking>
workmad3: In this case "looks like Ruby" just means "Doesn't look like a giant pile of lines that aren't essential to the actual problem the code is trying to solve."
<charliesome>
20% of v8 by source lines is in header files
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<invariant>
Also, you get more type-safety from C++.
<rking>
invariant: No, that's what I'm saying, though. There is a lot of fun-to-read OSS code in HLLs.
<workmad3>
invariant: seriously? you're trying to sell that pile of crap?
<workmad3>
invariant: C++ allows C casting
<wildcard0>
type safety is overhyped
<workmad3>
invariant: the type system is therefore broken in C++
<invariant>
wildcard0, that's why you don't use that.
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<wildcard0>
i like duck typing
<invariant>
I am not saying that C++ is a good language; it does however have a good RTS.
<invariant>
Meaning, almost none :)
<wildcard0>
heh
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<invariant>
You can always work around the stupid implementation errors, if any.
<invariant>
In a language that's tied to an implementation or has some implementation choices set in stone for some reason, that's not going to happen.
<invariant>
Also, C++ has a fairly formal specification.
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<invariant>
Does Ruby have any standard specification with the same rigor?
<invariant>
I don't think so.
<rking>
Hahaha
<workmad3>
invariant: what does that formal spec give C++ though?
<workmad3>
invariant: it certainly doesn't give it implementation-independence
<rking>
It took C++ *years* to get to where the most basic of new features was anything you could expect compilers to actually implement.
<invariant>
workmad3, code that continues to work for decades.
<workmad3>
invariant: bollocks it does
<invariant>
c89 code still works in the case of C.
<workmad3>
invariant: sure, assuming that the code was written as C89
<rking>
It's better to not have a standard for things that move fast.
<invariant>
C++ 98, same story.
<wildcard0>
well the c++ committe grew faster than the standard
<wildcard0>
that says something
<shevy>
hehehe
<rking>
Let it flourish, figure out what you really want, then go back and write the standard.
<invariant>
That's about 15 years now.
<workmad3>
invariant: again, assuming it's actually C++98 that you have
<invariant>
workmad3, if you are not writing against a standard, you are not a programmer.
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<workmad3>
invariant: it took them until about 2008 to get the majority of implementations to be compliant against the C++98 standard
<invariant>
workmad3, I know that.
<shevy>
ack
<workmad3>
invariant: if you didn't have a compliant implementation, you almost certainly had to work around that
<shevy>
workmad3 is not a programmer :(
<rking>
shevy: (?)
<shevy>
rking I am just interpreting what invariant wrote
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<invariant>
workmad3, yes, and you would isolate those pieces of the code.
<workmad3>
invariant: and a huge swathe of code isn't compliant, is tied to specific compiler versions, etc. and breaks badly if compiled with a compliant compiler
<workmad3>
invariant: so once again... what does that standard actually provide? other than a way to say 'this code isn't really C++'
<invariant>
workmad3, for the latest standard, there are similar approaches already.
<invariant>
workmad3, there are a lot of programs that can be written against the standard now. Pretty much everything I have ever written at least.
<workmad3>
invariant: sure, because people now know how to isolate themselves from it
<wildcard0>
i wonder what % of developers believe they're above average
<invariant>
workmad3, this is software engineering 101.
<workmad3>
invariant: again, it is *now*
<rking>
invariant: It's just even more inessential problem-solving.
<invariant>
If I would find that the APIs I am using in Ruby don't work anymore in 5 years, I will likely abandon Ruby.
<workmad3>
invariant: but you're claiming this for code going back to the birth of the standard, which was different from C++ as it existed at the time, and took a lot of time to sort out
<invariant>
Not that I have a lot of Ruby running.
<rking>
When I see some code, I expect it to be 90% essential or else there should be a good reason why it isn't.
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<invariant>
workmad3, I also use compilers that are closest to the standard.
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<workmad3>
invariant: right, and what about when they *don't exist*
<workmad3>
invariant: do you write one?
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<invariant>
workmad3, I could certainly do that, but I probably won't.
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<invariant>
It's not like writing a compiler is anything hard.
<shevy>
rking my code is like that, I write only what I need!
<invariant>
It's just a lot of work.
<workmad3>
invariant: right, so what would you do in the case of C++98, new standard, new standard library, and no compilers or implementations that are standards compliant
<invariant>
There are much more complex problems than compiler construction.
<invariant>
workmad3, isolation.
<wildcard0>
like compiler optimization
<workmad3>
invariant: but you also have existing C++ code that came into being before the standard
<workmad3>
invariant: you have entire systems that were written before the standard
<invariant>
workmad3, then I would have such features isolated already.
<invariant>
workmad3, isn't planning ahead great?
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<workmad3>
invariant: and they were written without the benefit of knowing that isolation would even be *needed*
<workmad3>
invariant: sure, if you've managed to isolate the right bits that aren't standards compliant in the absence of said standard
<workmad3>
invariant: 'isolation' isn't a magical answer
<invariant>
workmad3, if the function call syntax will change in ruby, I will just write a simple source to source transformation.
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<invariant>
It can't be that difficult, but I would probably try to abandon ruby as quickly as possible.
<invariant>
I like stable languages.
<invariant>
As in: backwards compatible.
<wildcard0>
languages either come and go or change
<workmad3>
invariant: which is a much bigger, harder problem
<wildcard0>
workmad3: that's just perspective
<shevy>
ruby changes all the time
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<wildcard0>
speaking of, has anyone played with ruby 2?
<shevy>
invariant do you like Encoding module in ruby 1.9.x
<invariant>
shevy, just because I use some modules, doesn't mean I am not a relative Ruby n00b.
<wildcard0>
invariant: so basically you like langauges... invariant ?
<invariant>
wildcard0, I like good libraries.
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<wildcard0>
well ya
<invariant>
wildcard0, if it so happens to be in a particular language, I will just use it regardless of the language.
<wildcard0>
that's kinda a truism
<shevy>
I want to create a scripting language with a high quality FAT library
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<wildcard0>
i mean who's like "i like bad libraries!"
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<shevy>
wildcard0 oh, most languages are... if you assume that bad libraries never make it into them :) and if every addition to the language must be reasoned for
<invariant>
wildcard0, gluing together libraries from different languages with pipes creates nice simple utilities.
<shevy>
ack please not
<shevy>
awk/sed/perl/shell/what/not
<invariant>
shevy, ?
<wildcard0>
ah the unix design philosophy
<wildcard0>
it's worked for 40-ish years
<shevy>
wildcard0 except that, given a good language, you can avoid all of these and just use that one language
<invariant>
wildcard0, yep. It doesn't work for 30000 requests/sec kind of things.
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<invariant>
wildcard0, or rather, it will cost you 100 times the hardware.
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<wildcard0>
shevy: that depends what you're doing. if you need flexibility, a bunch of smaller utilities is sane. a single program that incorporates every possible cross product of those really isn't
<invariant>
I would also prefer to use one language.
<invariant>
But if reality doesn't agree...
<shevy>
pfft reality
<wildcard0>
heh
<shevy>
linux startup scripts are shell scripts
<invariant>
shevy, what did you mean by ack not?
<shevy>
invariant I like the core of the unix philosophy. I do not like perl/awk/sed syntax much at all, and I dont feel that linux as a whole is beautiful
<shevy>
linux has the advantage of no real competition against it
<invariant>
shevy, if you get sed, it's quite good, but otherwise I agree.
<shevy>
they are all useful
<shevy>
shell scripts too
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<invariant>
I think awk does too much.
<invariant>
I also don't like first-order languages with lots of built-ins.
<shevy>
perl's creator didn't think so :DDD
<wildcard0>
linux used to have competition, but it kinda won
<shevy>
I'd like to find beautiful programming languages
<wildcard0>
it could use more probably
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<shevy>
I tried to befriend BSD
<invariant>
shevy, and?
<hoelzro>
wildcard0: I wish; I think the problem is momentum
<shevy>
but their usability is significantly worse than linux :(
<wildcard0>
possibly. i think that competition is good in general
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<ezkl>
awk, see, et al are power tools; they create beauty through IO violence
<hoelzro>
Linux has tons of momentum, and none of the competition really offers anything that blows Linux out of the water
<ezkl>
*sed
<shevy>
yeah hoelzro exactly
<wildcard0>
awk is a programming language
<wildcard0>
just an old one with really horrible syntax
<Hanmac_>
shevy image how funny it would be if the startup scripts are in ruby :D
<invariant>
There is only one reason why there is no competition.
<shevy>
and there is so much fragmentation too... netbsd ... freebsd... pcbsd... openbsd... dragonflybsd... cant they all merge together...
<invariant>
This is lack of hardware documentation.
<wildcard0>
we're between competitiors?
<hoelzro>
invariant: so true
<hoelzro>
and kernels are hard.
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<invariant>
hoelzro, kernels can be written in 4000 lines of C.
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<shevy>
Hanmac_ i tried too! but it is too much work... I think if I try it again, I'd write a tiny little domain language
<wildcard0>
device drivers then all need to be ported
<hoelzro>
invariant: are you talking about a microkernel?
<wildcard0>
id suggest that it'd be easier to build a different userspace around the linux kernel
<invariant>
hoelzro, that's a kernel, isn't it?
<shevy>
the kernel is another thing, it's huge these days
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<shevy>
it was fun to compile it from source 10 years ago
<wildcard0>
it can be small. but you need to go shrink it
<shevy>
it's just a hassle nowadays :(
<shevy>
yeah wildcard0
<wildcard0>
you can fit it on 100k embedded devices
<hoelzro>
invariant: true, but I think that saying that the kernel is 4000 lines of a microkernel is kind of a loaded statement
<hoelzro>
I can write a *really* stripped down kernel and ship everything out to userspace
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<wildcard0>
it'd be kinda cool to see beos userspace on top of a linux kernel
<hoelzro>
but if I haven't written any userspace daemons to perform that functionality, can you really consider the kernel/OS "complete"?
<wildcard0>
though i have no idea who has time to do that
<hoelzro>
wildcard0: what's wrong with Haiku?
<invariant>
If you want competition, you need to write a letter to some EU body explaining how more competition could be created.
<shevy>
wildcard0 haiku can run beos binaries or? but they are so slow, in 1000 years they will give you hd-install options...
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<invariant>
I am sure they are all ignorant of the issues involved.
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<invariant>
These are issues which are easy for us to understand and hard for them.
<wildcard0>
hoelzro: it doen't have the variety of hardware support linux has. or im misinformed
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<hoelzro>
shevy: iirc, haiku can already install to the HDD
<hoelzro>
wildcard0: that's true
<hoelzro>
apparently you can use encrypted wifi on it now, though?
<wildcard0>
that's cool
<invariant>
If an OS cannot run a modern graphics card, it already is useless.
<hoelzro>
I've always been pretty impressed with Haiku
<hoelzro>
considering how small their team is
<invariant>
This is because the programmers will use such systems first.
<shevy>
invariant hmm depends... if the rest of the code is high quality and bug free, then I would not entirely agree
<invariant>
Then when they want to do server programming, they are already 'hooked'.
<shevy>
yeah
<hoelzro>
invariant: is that the fault of the developers developing that system, or the graphics card manufacturers who don't release specs?
<invariant>
hoelzro, it's the fault of the legislators.
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<wildcard0>
a lot of those specs are available inside linux drivers
<shevy>
just like the gamers are a big part of microsoft operating systems... young, smart guys, with money to buy things. so if win 8 fails to lure them, win 8 won't succeed much
<invariant>
hoelzro, they should make documentation a law.
<wildcard0>
heh a law
<wildcard0>
that'd be interesting
<shevy>
ohh
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<invariant>
For hardware only, of course.
<shevy>
make documentation a part of the program
<shevy>
or make documentation the only way to add code
<wildcard0>
win 8 will succeed the same way vista "succeeded". MS will just stop supporting older stuff
<hoelzro>
invariant: that would be interesting indeed
<invariant>
shevy, yes, I am sure there is a nice research project which could do that.
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<shevy>
wildcard0 dunno if that will work forever for them
<invariant>
shevy, these are the kinds of research projects that should be funded with EU money.
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<invariant>
(or no projects at all :P )
<wildcard0>
shevy: maybe not. but that's kinda their plan from what i can see.
<wildcard0>
i dont work for MS :)
<shevy>
wildcard0, well, they still need people who use their software
<invariant>
It's amazing that Linux developed in a system where there was no documentation.
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<shevy>
I am on linux 99% of my time, I have one laptop with vista, only to test for compatibility stuff... like my ruby scripts and so forth
<wildcard0>
shevy: they'll make it so that office requires windows 8 at some point. and people will ugrade. and everyone else will be forced to cause file formats. and then they'll upgrade the OS as well...also hardware manufs will ship windows 8 cause of the MS agreements
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<shevy>
but when I was a "gamer", I had no real alternative to windows
<wildcard0>
it's not about good or bad tech. it's about the way the ecosystem works
<shevy>
wildcard0 I never forgave them the ribbon-interface
<wildcard0>
heh
<invariant>
wildcard0, interesting to describe hell as an ecosystem.
<shevy>
they killed my workflow and used propaganda to attempt convince me that this is a good thing
<wildcard0>
im not defending them by any stretch. im just describing it
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<wildcard0>
i hardly ever use office. so it made no difference to me. having to look all over in one interface is the same as looking all over in another
<invariant>
shevy, they should just have maintained both versions.
<shevy>
ubuntu unity feels similar... it just interferes every time I wanna do something
<invariant>
shevy, that's what people pay them for; to change as little as possible as to what they don't want.
<wildcard0>
i really dislike unity. it doesn't work with what i want to do
<invariant>
shevy, that's why you install KDE.
<wildcard0>
or mint
<shevy>
wildcard0 I kinda need a suite... libreoffice is ok, but I'd wish there was more competition here as well. or more choice
<invariant>
shevy, that works on NixOS, doesn't it?
<wildcard0>
shevy: totally agreed.
<shevy>
dunno. been years since I tried nixos
<shevy>
I liked its idea
<shevy>
but my youth days are over, I dont experiment much anymore :(
<wildcard0>
i wish i had time to play with some of these OS experiments
<shevy>
hahaha yeah wildcard0 I can so relate to that
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<shevy>
invariant KDE is ok... but it took me many months before I could forgive them the transition from kde3 to kde4. they praised kde4 so much, then it was awfully buggy
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<shevy>
awk '{ $1=NULL; t[$0]++; }
<invariant>
shevy, another topic on which we agree.
<shevy>
END { for (i in t) printf("%d\t%s\n", t[i], i); }
<shevy>
hey...
<shevy>
awk syntax almost reads like valid ruby syntax :)
<shevy>
invariant, what terminal do you use?
<wildcard0>
heh
<invariant>
shevy, xterm
<shevy>
hmm... without tabs? you have only one instance of xterm floating about?
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<invariant>
shevy, tmux
<shevy>
aha
<invariant>
shevy, xterm is the only one that doesn't have really annoying bugs.
<shevy>
hehehe
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<wildcard0>
ugh. i wish i could run a decent terminal. work give us all macs
<shevy>
wildcard0 you can use unicode characters in that mac terminal thingy!
<invariant>
wildcard0, can't you compile it from source?
<wildcard0>
oh yay!
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<wildcard0>
invariant: ya, but then i have to run an x server on top of osx. and it's a mess
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<invariant>
Lots of packages are not provided in any decent shape by my distribution, so I have to build it from source.
<wildcard0>
i use iterm2 cause it's the least stupid
<invariant>
wildcard0, aren't there any in the Mac App store? ;)
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<wildcard0>
wtf knows ;)
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<wildcard0>
i may even be convinced to write one at some point
<wildcard0>
on my project time maybe. we'll see.
<invariant>
I like that there are multiple implementations, because if some library call doesn't work, I don't need to debug it, I can just call some other language run-time + library.
<wildcard0>
my current project time is a shared multiplayer code editor
<invariant>
An extreme form of evolution, in some sense.
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<invariant>
wildcard0, what other features does it have besides that?
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<wildcard0>
invariant: right now, that's all it does. i only get a little time on it and it's really for internal use. id like to be able to hook it up to the correct compiler/interpreter on the back end and be able to do git work as well
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<invariant>
wildcard0, how many hours did it take you to get to that point?
<wildcard0>
heh about 10 maybe?
<shevy>
awk '{s+=$1}END{print s}' <file>
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<invariant>
That's quite good, I think.
<wildcard0>
it's more of an assembled set of open source projects with hacks right now
<wildcard0>
but with a bunch of controls attached and stuff. my next step is making sure the controls are static across all the users. and then i think git after that
<wildcard0>
so you can import code easily
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<invariant>
wildcard0, can't you better make it such that it has an API such that every editor can use it?
<invariant>
wildcard0, Emacs/Vim/etc.
<wildcard0>
well it's designed to be shared inside a browser
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<wildcard0>
it's the use case for it. i'd love to be able to change to vim/emacs bindings on it. but it's not a priority right now
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<Hanmac_>
"EmacsOS - now with text editor"
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<shevy>
Hanmac_ lol
<shevy>
"EmacsOS - now lisp free"
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<wildcard0>
LISPOS - now emacs free?
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<_dr>
hi, is there some sort of interface that allows me to call functions from C, C++, java, etc in ruby?
<_dr>
i've been looking at SWIG, but that only connects to c and cpp
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<hoelzro>
that's a pretty complicated problem
<hoelzro>
interfacing between Java and Ruby itself is hard
<Hanmac_>
_dr, with FFI you can call C- Frunctions in ruby, swig is for dynamic creation of extendions, what i do not recomend, java functions can be only called from jruby
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<lupine>
Gah. Set#delete and Array#delete are not compatible
<_dr>
Hanmac_: okay thanks
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<lupine>
why would you do that?
<_dr>
hoelzro: yeah, i thought so... i just thought since swig provides the possibility to call C/C++ from a whole lot of languages there may be some interface from ruby to a whole lot of languages :)
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<hoelzro>
_dr: most languages have a way of interfacing with C
<hoelzro>
SWIG just abstracts that away
<hoelzro>
in some cases, poorly
<Hanmac_>
(in general cases pooply)
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<Hanmac_>
_dr i recommend not to use swig ... selfmade has often an higher quality than swiggenerated ...
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<_dr>
Hanmac_: okay
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<mklappstuhl>
Hey
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<mklappstuhl>
Running rake I keep getting an "invalid multibyte escape" without the actual escape
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<charliesome>
has anyone used net/imap before?
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<Mo0O>
hello, I have install the pg gem using gem command, when I run : gem list --local | grep pg
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<Mo0O>
it return me : pg (0.14.1)
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<Mo0O>
but when I run : bundle install
<Mo0O>
to install a bundle ;)
<Mo0O>
it return me the following error :
<Mo0O>
An error occurred while installing pg (0.14.1), and Bundler cannot continue.
<Mo0O>
Make sure that `gem install pg -v '0.14.1'` succeeds before bundling.
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<Xeago>
I never knew
<Xeago>
osx has an irbrc that autoloads rubygems
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* lupine
wonders if def initialize(modules) ; modules.each {|m| extend m } ; end is always a bad idea
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<Hanmac_>
lupine: o dont think its bad ... i have seen more worse stuff ... (i also programmed more worse stuff :D)
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<Hanmac_>
lupine what kind of modules did you extend like that?
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<amaya_the>
:(
<RonenCole>
Howdy folks. Having an issue with ruby throwing "ruby: No such file or directory -- п (LoadError)" every 24 hours unless reinstalled. not sure what's breaking at the exact same time every day to cause it. cPanel based system with ruby manually installed as cPanel hasn't pushed the patched version yet. Where would be the best place to start looking?
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<Hanmac_>
RonenCole it looks like an encoding problem, what is your ruby version?
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<RonenCole>
Hanmac_ 1.9.3.p362
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<Hanmac_>
RonenCole: do you use rails or some kind of activerecord system?
<Hanmac_>
oO RonenCole, i think you need to infestigate which part of problem does make this problems with encoding ... (or maybe its an 362 bug)
<RonenCole>
gonna deploy trunk and see if the issue happens again tomorrow, maybe it's been patched already
<Fuzai>
Someone yesterday I thought showed me something like var_dump in perl called pp. Today when I try it in irb I get undefined method. Could someone explain to me whats going on please?
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<Hanmac_>
Fuzai: pp is the sister of p but its not in core ruby, but in stdlib ... you need to call require "pp"
<Fuzai>
ohhhh
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<Fuzai>
is there a way to color stdout text output?
<hoelzro>
Fuzai: there's probably a fancy library (like HighLine?), but you could also just use ANSI terminal codes
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<Fuzai>
ok
<hoelzro>
puts "\e[31mHello, World\e[0m"
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<Fuzai>
theres something i haven't seen in 10 years
<Xeago>
Fuzai: you could also configure your shell to always print stdout in red
<Fuzai>
i'm trying to get it to stand out against the grey
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<s1n4>
hey, how do I print texts on an external frame?
<s1n4>
I mean something like the less/more program
<arturaz>
external frame?
<s1n4>
yeah
<arturaz>
what is that?
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<s1n4>
I mean someting like piping the output to the less program
<arturaz>
just print to $stdout?
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<arturaz>
that's how unix pipes work
<arturaz>
stdin/stdout
<s1n4>
dude, I said something like the less program
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<Hanmac_>
s1n4: ruby file.rb | less
<arturaz>
dude, you have to be more specific.
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<s1n4>
Hanmac_: not bad idea, but not great at all
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<s1n4>
try $ bundle help
<s1n4>
I want my program to act like it ^
<hoelzro>
s1n4: you want to emulate less?
<arturaz>
s1n4, bundle help actually invokes less
<s1n4>
yeah
<arturaz>
you could open less with popen and print to it
<s1n4>
arturaz: I'm gonna check bundler code
<s1n4>
arturaz: thanks, good idea
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<arturaz>
No problems. Just try explaining your problem better next time ;)
<Hanmac_>
IO.popen("less","w") {|io| io.write("This is Text") }
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<s1n4>
arturaz: sure, but this time I was just a little confused :)
<s1n4>
Hanmac_: thanks :)
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<cr3>
if I run "HOME= irb" and then "ENV['HOME'] = File.expand_path('~')", I get: ArgumentError: non-absolute home
<christor>
Hi , I m getting some problem to install pdf-extract ( make: *** [libsvm_wrap.o] Error 1) , any ideas?
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<Hanmac_>
cr3: if i say: goto PLACE A but i dont say where PLACE A is, how do you can goto them?
<cr3>
Hanmac_: that's not true, "~user" works just fine, it's just that ruby takes a shortcut with "~" and goes to HOME instead of looking up the current user
<Spooner>
cr3, Well, not sure why you'd want to say that "irb" was your home in the first place. Or why you'd set it externally to one thing then set it to something else inside your script.
<cr3>
Spooner: there's a space between the equal sign and irb, meaning I'm just unsetting the HOME environment variable for the duration of the irb session
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<Spooner>
Oh, I see. Sorry.
<cr3>
Hanmac_: in other words, ruby treats ~ differently from ~user, maybe for performance reasons
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<Hanmac_>
cr3 yeah, do you have a problem with that?
<Spooner>
But still, I don't understand why you need to avoid HOME so much.
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<mantas322>
Hello!
<cr3>
Spooner: daemons like puppet and others that I've seen like to clear the environment
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<grzywacz>
Because HOME can be set to something different than user's real home directory.
<cr3>
grzywacz raises another good reason
<mantas322>
im new to ruby development, and im going to have to convert a c# program to a ruby website.
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<mantas322>
is there some sort of IDE or engine i need to download in order to start a hello world ruby in windows?
<mantas322>
or is it not recommended that I do ruby on windows at all
<mantas322>
?
<Spooner>
Yes, but it is set to something else, shouldn't ~ reasonably fail, since that is what HOME represents?
<Spooner>
mantas322, Nothing wrong with Ruby on Windows.
<Spooner>
Depending on the website you want to create, you will then need to look at the Rails or Sinatra gems or...well, something else ;)
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<cr3>
Spooner: maybe that's how ~ should be handled, I'll see what can be done in a daemon context which probably shouldn't try to make assumptions about a user in the first place
<Hanmac_>
mantas322 specialy when you want to use rails
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<mantas322>
oh my coworkers have already begun on the website, and they are using tuby on rails
<mantas322>
im only doing specific statistical analysis
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<Spooner>
Tubby on Rails ;)
<mantas322>
another question... is there any warnings I need to know about floating data types within ruby
<Hanmac_>
mantas322 can you tell them that they need to be careull with p362?
<mantas322>
are their limits to a float or double equivelant
<Spooner>
They are always doubles if that matters.
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<mantas322>
will do
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<Hanmac_>
mantas322 if you want more accurate float numbers (like for currency) checkout Rational and BigDecimal
<Spooner>
Hanmac, They are probably using 1.8.7 - newbies love deprecated versions :D
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<mantas322>
now in .net i've run into "zeroing out" explosions for example if you add "2.568" to "-2.568" instead of zero you get an explosion and you get some 8.8 quadrillion number cause of http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html
<mantas322>
is this something I need to watch out for in ruby?
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<mantas322>
oh their not noobies
<mantas322>
im sure they are using appropriate versions
<Spooner>
mantas322, Start up irb/pry (interactive shells) and find out ;)
<mantas322>
I will I will. :D
<hoelzro>
so one of my 2013 goals is to write more Ruby; I'm pretty used to doing things with Perl, so I was hoping to get some insights from the channel to see how I can get more comfortable writing Ruby
* mantas322
excited
<Spooner>
Not aware of that though.
<mantas322>
I'll find out and come complain about it here.
<mantas322>
:)
<hoelzro>
the main thing (so far) is viewing documentation; when I want to use a new Perl module, I open its page on CPAN, and read all of the examples and API; I haven't found the equivalent for Ruby yet
<hoelzro>
also, when I'm working with a module, I occasionally have a split window in Vim with the module's documentation on top and my code on the bottom
<hoelzro>
can anyone offer advice on how I can achieve a similar setup with Ruby?
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<Spooner>
hoelzro, Plenty of docs. You can use pry to look up docs in the REPL yardoc.org has docs for most if not all gems.
<hoelzro>
Spooner: well, I tried looking at the docs for HighLine on yardoc
<hoelzro>
and I was hard-pressed to find examples of how the library is actually *used*
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<Spooner>
That is a problem with the creator of the docs, not Ruby...
<Hanmac_>
mantas322 this is in ruby too: 0.1 + 0.2 == 0.3 #=> false
<cr3>
is there a more efficient way to check if a variable is nil or empty instead of var.nil? or var.empty?
<hoelzro>
see, that's better!
<hoelzro>
wtf does the documentation link on rubygems link to yardoc?
<Spooner>
hoelzro, Sometimes a gem will include an examples directory with more full examples.
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<mantas322>
what the H is #=>
<mantas322>
lol dont tell me
<mantas322>
i need to learn this cryptic language
<Hanmac_>
its the result
<mantas322>
i come from a heavy .net / java background
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<mantas322>
:P
<mantas322>
:P
<Hanmac_>
cr3 not without defining extra functions ... because nil and empty are totaly different things and only rails treat them equal
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<cr3>
Hanmac_: they are different, but I wouldn't mind if they were treated the same in a boolean context
<banisterfiend>
Hanmac_: hello
<Spooner>
cr3 They are very different and I'm glad they aren't considered the same except by PHP programmers ;D
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<hoelzro>
so what's the recommended Vim plugin for viewing Ruby module docs from within Vim?
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<Spooner>
hoelzro, Seriously, I'd just use pry for docs - you need a REPL open anyway when you are coding.
<Pip>
hoelzro, vim-rails
<banisterfiend>
hoelzro: and with pry you can pull source too, in case the docs aren't enough
<Spooner>
banisterfiend, But where is the pry vim plugin, eh?
<hoelzro>
I usually just work within Vim
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<Hanmac_>
cr3 in ruby each of them [],{},0,0.0,"" are treated as true in an if ... we are not php where you need to add an char to a string before comareation so php does not treat unequal strings equal
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<mantas322>
:D... I just did hello world
<mantas322>
too pro.
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<mantas322>
any windows users have a recommended IDE for writtting this stuff?
<cr3>
Hanmac_: I don't know of any other language that treats 0 as true in an if context, do you?
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<unstable>
https://gist.github.com/4539615 ... I don't understand how to comply with the recursive requirements in an rspec. How is my method supposed to be executed to be run recursively?
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<volk_>
unstable: what is your exact problem? you're just testing output, thats it
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<arin85>
Let's share our exps..................
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<Xeago>
Well, my phone has awesome batteru
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<Xeago>
been sitting on 18% since last night without a charge
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<matti>
Xeago: Or, it lies very well ;]
<mantas322>
that just means your not an NSA person of interest
<mantas322>
pretty easy to pick up on the syntax, i must say
<mantas322>
unlike sparql
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<Spooner>
mantas322, There is a lot of additional magic that is maths useful you can do in Ruby once you get the hang of it, like [1, 2, 3].reduce :+ #=> 6
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<Spooner>
mantas322, If you pastie your code (e.g. at gist.github.com) I can probably simplify it for you or give pointers. Though maybe not that useful on day one learning :D
<mantas322>
no its simple enough
<Spooner>
It is Ruby; it can always be simpler :P
<mantas322>
several nested loops
<mantas322>
yeah but that makes it more complicated to read
<mantas322>
for non ruby confidant people
<Spooner>
No, simpler doesn't mean harder to read. I'm not writing Perl.
<mantas322>
my one complaint is that I cant concat to "puts" outputs with +
<mantas322>
and have to use "#(value)"
<Spooner>
But yes, if you are writing Ruby in C# style, it will be a lot longer and harder to follow compared to pure Ruby.
<mantas322>
I'm doing alot of math.pow's math.logs, and **
<Spooner>
mantas322, You can do that, but it is usual to generate strings using interpolation #{}
<mantas322>
and iterating over a matrix of stuff
<mantas322>
im happy with my first program :)
<Xeago>
mantas322: puts "a" + "b" ?
<Xeago>
what is the problem?
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<mantas322>
cant puts "a" + number
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<mantas322>
unless I do .to_s
<Spooner>
mantas322, No, you'd have to do "a" + number.to_s - #{} has implicit to_s
<mantas322>
right
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<Xeago>
I actually hate C#'s auto toString()
<Spooner>
I admit that I'm not entirely sure why String#+ doesn't perform #to_s though.
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<Spooner>
I very rarely use anything but interpolation.
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<Spooner>
Or sprintf if I want certain types of number formatting.
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<mantas322>
also im not too sure when to end line with ;
<Spooner>
mantas322, Never
<mantas322>
sometimes i forget and it doesnt seem to care
<mantas322>
never? so its like VB?
<Spooner>
They are completely ignored.
<mantas322>
Oh.
<Spooner>
Well, not completely. You can have two statements on one line with them, but I never do.
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<Spooner>
Does mean that you need to wrap sensibly. "x = y +\n2" works as though one line, but "x = y\n+ 2" doesn't wrap.
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<Spooner>
diegoviola, Unless the other task is called by the first one, then it will never actually define the variable. Can you give a pastie of the code you are talking about?
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<diegoviola>
Spooner: i'm trying to call @listener.stop in task :import
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<diegoviola>
problem is if i move the content of task :listen in my rails app, the whole thing blocks and i don't want that, i'm not sure how to go on thsi
<diegoviola>
this*
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<Spooner>
Well, by the time you import, you are running a new rake instance, so the @listener will not be accessible. It isn't so much that it is in another taks (unless listen and import are dependencies of another task so they get called after each other).
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<diegoviola>
right...
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<Spooner>
So you need to turn the listener off and on again while importing?
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<diegoviola>
Spooner: i'm trying to turn off the listener when it's done importing, otherwise i get lots of ruby processes
<diegoviola>
after each import
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<diegoviola>
Spooner: if i move this listener in the rails app, it blocks the rails app... this listen gem supposedly can be started with #start(false) and it won't block, but it's still blocking for some reason
<Spooner>
Oh, I see. I thought you just needed to turn it off while importing, but I guess I'm not entirely sure what you are doing (because I don't use s3, not because you haven't explained it).
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<diegoviola>
is there a better way to approach this?
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<Spooner>
You could try increasing the latency to make it poll less often, but if it is non-blocking even the default (0.25) should be enough not to stall you.
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<Spooner>
(0.25s)
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<Spooner>
diegoviola, You used a callback instead of a block when you used start(false)?
<diegoviola>
i think i've used a block :x
<Spooner>
I think using a block starts it, so it will never get to the start(false) if it is after the block.
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<Spooner>
Note that if it doesn't block, then it won't work as the Rake task unless you sleep forever after it (Rake will finish and it will stop listening) ;)
<otters>
is there some way to have multiple irbrcs
<diegoviola>
Spooner: right
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<diegoviola>
Spooner: so if i add as a callback inside the rails app and call it with start(false), it shouldn't block in theory?
<diegoviola>
Spooner: and it will run in the same rails process?
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<Spooner>
That is the theory, certainly.
<Spooner>
It should, yes.
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<diegoviola>
ok let's try
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<Spooner>
I'd try it in the rake first and put a "puts 'I didn't block'" after the #start(false)
<diegoviola>
yep
<Spooner>
Because I have little faith in my understanding of a gem I've never used.
* diegoviola
trying that
<diegoviola>
yeah
<diegoviola>
same
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<diegoviola>
Spooner: it doesn't block with the callback in the rake task ;)
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<diegoviola>
ty
<Spooner>
Brill.
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<diegoviola>
Spooner: yeah it's not blocking inside the rails app either, thanks a bunch
<diegoviola>
;)
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<diegoviola>
now i can pass listener to the rake task as a rake argument and just stop it in the rake task i guess?
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<diegoviola>
kinda pointless to stop it i guess, since it's not spawning any more processes, hmm
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<ruzu>
is there any best-practice for rspec testing a range of input values? ie testing time inputs to a function with a couple nested (x..y).each iterations? i noticed that a failure is a bit opaque because the info rspec gives shows the block variables (as opposed to an explicit input)
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<Spooner>
Not sure what you mean, ruzu, but I often create many specs in that case, each having a label based on the data they use from the loop.
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<ruzu>
yea reading that back seemed a bit convoluted, heh... here's an example test i'm using: http://pastebin.com/aCuh44aB
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<ruzu>
essentially the range of inputs is too large to manually test, but iteration is fast enough to use
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<ruzu>
if match_time fails, rspec shows just the inner function call, but i don't know which values it was specifically testing. maybe i should just test a fixed set of inputs.
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<Eiam>
I have a data structure that is flat, but inside it has parent nodes defined. I also have a root node. I'd like to reconstruct the tree thats defined 'flatly'. I just looked at rubytree gem but that does't look like quite what I'm after
<Eiam>
does what I want already exist, or do I need to write it?
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<shadow_fox>
hi , anyone knows why i am getting this when i run gem install. {~:$}gem install foreman
<shadow_fox>
Fetching: foreman-0.61.0.gem (100%)
<shadow_fox>
ERROR: While executing gem ... (Errno::EACCES)
<lectrick>
If I open a class inside a block and add a method to it, and then call that block from the outside, should I expect anything unusual?
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<ruzu>
shadow_fox, check toolbelt.heroku.com it has the new stuff you should use
<shadow_fox>
ruzu: there is none for non-debian os like mine opensuse
<ruzu>
D:
<ruzu>
not sure then, maybe ask in #heroku
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<shadow_fox>
ok
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<havenn>
lectrick: Will SyntaxError if you try to define a class in a method, but works fine in a proc or lambda.
<philcrissman>
shadow_fox: for now, you could just keep using the heroku gem; it still works, it will just warn you that it's deprecated every time you use it. :-) But it looks like the standalone should for for non-ubuntu linuxes... https://github.com/heroku/heroku
<otherj>
anyone here know jekyll?
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<havenn>
lolroku
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<shadow_fox>
philcrissman: but it isnt allowing me to import ssh keys
<shadow_fox>
like in heroku tool belt site shows
<philcrissman>
shadow_fox: 'it' being the deprecated gem?
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<philcrissman>
shadow_fox: then I guess get the tarball and just unpack it somewhere on your path. :)
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<Spooner>
ruzu I'd put the loop outside #it and change the description to "should match #{h.rjust 2, '0'}:#{m.rjust 2, '0'}"
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<Spooner>
However, for data like that, I'd probably just pick a selection of edge case examples.
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<Spooner>
Hmm, you need to use to_s on numbers to rjust. Easier to just sprintf it as you did in your test :D
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<ruzu>
good idea regarding the looping; i also think you're right about specific tests...i think testing at the input boundaries should work fine.
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<Hanmac>
Spooner & ruzu why are you guys using rjust for formating numbers? did you guys forget what sprintf can do?
<Spooner>
Hanmac, ruzu isn't using rjust. I just used it for random reasons :D
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<Banistergalaxy>
Hanmac fren, equus?
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<Hanmac>
Spooner: "should match %0.2d:%0.2d" % [h,m]
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<Spooner>
Hanmac, Just because I didn't do it that way doesn't mean I don't know :D For some reason I didn't like the idea of putting brackets around the should text :$
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<lectrick>
Man it would be awesome if I could have terminal output that defaulted to "collapsed" but that could be "expanded" or drilled into basically. Or like an HTML rollover tooltip.
<apeiros|afk>
lectrick: funny, thought the same more than once…
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<lectrick>
apeiros|afk: I am not surprised. I think it will come eventually, somehow. sometimes you just want the 5000' view but you want to be able to get more detail on the fly, but perhaps without activating ENV switches or affecting the verbosity of other outputs
<apeiros|afk>
gah, I hate that: 19:42 Error(435): apeiros #ruby-lang Cannot change nickname while banned on channel
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<lectrick>
apeiros: I wonder if it could be done by capturing certain Unix signals
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<lectrick>
apeiros: like, the program making the output only outputs the non-detailed view but holds the detailed information internally... until you send a signal/interrupt of some sort, in which case maybe it dumps the detail on the most recent thing
<banisterfiend>
apeiros: do u smoke cigarettes
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<apeiros>
banisterfiend: nope
<banisterfiend>
apeiros: hmmm, ok
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<lectrick>
apeiros: like, you could trap SIGINFO for example and just dump a verbose version of the last output if it's used
<apeiros>
banisterfiend: y?
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<apeiros>
lectrick: might be a way
<ruzu>
lectrick, ever heard of xiki? it sounds vaguely similar to what you were saying about a more versatile terminal. (not very familiar with it though)
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<lectrick>
ruzu: Yeah, I've been watching xiki for a while.
<lectrick>
ruzu: I tried to get it to work with Sublime and sort of failed, so I gave up for now
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<lectrick>
I think Xiki is a step in the right direction
<lectrick>
But it is rather drastic
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<lectrick>
Anyone know which signals you can send from the keyboard other than control-c? which signal is control-D and the others? is there a keyboard command for SIGINFO?
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<heftig>
lectrick: stty -a
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<heftig>
you can see control key assignments like intr = ^C; quit = ^\; erase = ^?; kill = ^U; eof = ^D; eol = M-^?; eol2 = M-^?; swtch = M-^?; start = ^Q; stop = ^S; susp = ^Z; rprnt = ^R; werase = ^W; lnext = ^V;
<banisterfiend>
lectrick: i dont think the overarching idea of xiki
<banisterfiend>
lectrick: i dont think "wiki" is a good model for "everything"
<banisterfiend>
lectrick: but it does have some k00 features that could be pulled into a more sensible project :D
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<banisterfiend>
it always pages *everything* (in git) and when i quit the pager it doesnt leave it on the screen
<banisterfiend>
i want it left on the screen!!!!!!!!!!!
<banisterfiend>
and, if possible, not to page things that dont need paging (i.e < 1 page)
<heftig>
banisterfiend: less -X
<banisterfiend>
heftig: so what environment variable do i add that to? :P
<heftig>
if you want it to quit if < 1 page, less -FX
<heftig>
LESS=FX
<banisterfiend>
thanks dude
<banisterfiend>
i'll try it
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<heftig>
banisterfiend: LESS=SRiFX
<banisterfiend>
heftig: wow, what do all those things do?
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<heftig>
S chops long lines instead of wrapping, R enables color output, i makes search case-insensitive by default
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<banisterfiend>
nice
<banisterfiend>
thanks
<kyle__>
I don't suppose there are any ruby vnc libaries that support SSL or usernames (instead of just passwords).
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<Zolo>
I have a question regarding writing a service in Ruby... It was a while ago I wrote one but got stuck. Just curious if there is any way to generate a WSDL from exposed methods in the service? In C# when creating a webservice.asmx you can just get the wsdl from webservice.asmx?wsdl is there a simulare way to do it in Ruby?
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<kyle__>
Zolo: I'm sure you could do it. Don't know if tehre's an automated way of creating it.
<apeiros>
Zolo: that question should more be like "is there a framework in ruby which makes that easy"
<Fuzai>
Someone the other day suggested an alternative to Heroku called ruby something. Does anyone know the name of what i'm talking about?
<apeiros>
because yes, of course, it's entirely possible to do it with ruby, but as kyle__ said, the real question is whether there's something pre-done, readily available
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<Zolo>
apeiros: Well its more of a open question, There could also be a tool to invoke or anything. Like I said, I just wonder because its a crucial part in my opinion. But Do you have any framework to do it It would be great. :)
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<apeiros>
Zolo: sorry, I'm usually at the other end of webservices
<apeiros>
server side I far prefer REST over SOAP
<apeiros>
(since you obviously mean SOAP…)
<Zolo>
kyle__: Ok, do you know any way to just generate the file then (dose not need to be automated). More of tool perhaps.
<ruzu>
biff_tannen, i'm not going but several of those speakers are pretty good imo
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<apeiros>
Zolo: ruby-toolbox.com might be helpful to you
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<Zolo>
apeiros: Yeah, the reason I wonder is because I love to create a webservice providing JSON and client in javascript talking with it. :)
<lectrick>
heftig- i have the stty -a output but I'm not sure which of those map to signals that can be trapped by Ruby, other than control-C and perhaps control-D? or U? Not sure
<kyle__>
Zolo: If you're already using the web service/applet class you can just make that a target. Trying to recall exactlyhow to do it, but tis' pretty easy. Maybe just a handler.
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<lectrick>
for example the "stty -a" output says "status" is ^T, does that map to a signal at all?
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<kyle__>
So nobody has worked with a reasonable VNC class for ruby?
<lectrick>
it says "kill" is control-U, but I thought SIGKILL was control-C? Etc.
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<Zolo>
kyle__: I am not following. Could you please elaborate what you mean with "you can just make that a target. Trying to recall exactlyhow to do it, but tis' pretty easy."
<lectrick>
Basically I want a POSIX signal I can trap which is triggerable on a standard Unix console with a control key but is not control-C or control-Z which I can trap
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<heftig>
lectrick: that's "line kill", not SIGKILL
<lectrick>
heftig: thanks for the clarification. Do you know of a keyboard-triggerable trappable signal that would mean something like "give me more info"?
<heftig>
no
<kyle__>
Zolo: you make a handler for each target. A method_missing type of thing if I recall (it's been several years).
<heftig>
i think what you're supposed to do is turn off the terminal's handling of the key you want (if it's handled), then look up in terminfo what kind of character that combination produces
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<heftig>
e.g. ctrl+k produces a \v here
<kyle__>
Zolo: So is you had http://myserver/jpegs/ you would make a handler in your class that handled /jpegs/ and served up say, an index.html.
<carlzulauf>
a more info signal is a fantastic concept though
<kyle__>
And I kept saying applet, I meant sevelet, but you probably guessed that.
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<Zolo>
kyle__: I see, well it dose not solve the problem if I would like to hook up the webservice with C#, Because I need the wsdl to get the correct hooks. But I also know its just a "nice-to-have" a wsdl and not a requirement for the webservice to work. But thanks anyway Now I learned something new. :)
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<lectrick>
heftig/apeiros- lol I tossed this on IRB and then mashed keys: Signal.list.keys.each{|s| trap(s){ puts "Got signal #{s}"}}
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<lectrick>
Is there any way to force a method in a module inclusion to overwrite an existing method, similar to "prepend" from Ruby 2.0, in Ruby 1.9?
<lectrick>
Like can I use an included hook to undefine any methods that are already defined on the class, which are also defined in the module about to be included?
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<failshell>
hello. by default, if i run gem install foo in a loop, gem will reinstall the gem every time. is it possible to tell gem to not install if the gem is already installed?
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<hashpuppy>
there's no way to get the requested path from a Net:HTTPBadRequest exception, huh? I've been looking through the docs and have come to the conclusion that you cna't
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<carlzulauf>
failshell: you can see if the gem is already installed first
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<carlzulauf>
run `gem list [gem name]` and parse the output
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<graft>
is there a better way to return an object from an array matching certain critera other than select { |o| ... }.first or some such?
<Mon_Ouie>
Enumerable#find { … }
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<bricker>
Isn't there a better way? File.join(File.absolute_path(File.dirname(__FILE__)), "results", "hello.csv")
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<graft>
ah, find, duh
<Mon_Ouie>
You can drop the absolute_path unless you're going to be changing directory within your tests (or wherever you do this)
<Asym>
can anyone think of a reason why invoking rake from cmd line would work but invoking it via Rake.app.init/Rake.app['target'].invoke would not?
<Mon_Ouie>
One trick would be File.expand_path("../results/hello.csv", __FILE__)
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<Mon_Ouie>
It may look weird because you're not expanding from a directory. I use it mostly because it's shorter.
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<apeiros>
graft: of course it works
<apeiros>
same as Mon_Ouie
<apeiros>
also I start to get hard-wired for less method calls
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<tetsus>
I'm trying to write an API wrapper that uses XML as it's request interface. I've got Builder generating XML, but it seems really template-y. Are there any conventions for templating for XML like this?
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<jkrall>
hello all… I'm having a really hard time getting ruby 1.9.3 installed via rvm on mountain lion. Anyone around who might be able to help?
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<apeiros>
jkrall: #rvm is usually very helpful
<bean_work>
I have had 0 trouble getting it to work on ML
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<apeiros>
it worked fine for me on mountain lion btw. (just to say that it is possible)
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<bean_work>
fwiw
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<jkrall>
thanks, I'll jump in there… yeah, I've installed it 3-4 times before, but I have a new hire and we've spent half the day so far trying to get it to build successfully. weird.
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* Hanmac
wonders when the days come when OSX ship a current ruby ... ;P
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<blazes816>
if apple could only ship to that past
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<atmosx>
hello
<atmosx>
does anybody write HAML tests?
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<atmosx>
I never used any test framework. I have a program that fails in some situations and I'd like to use it against minitest, but I need to see some code to understand how to assign results in haml files
<atmosx>
otherwise I'll have to use hmm the sinatra app to puts all output
<atmosx>
and use haml that way
<atmosx>
err minitest
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<breakingthings>
atmosx uh, haml?
<atmosx>
yeah
<breakingthings>
don't you mean YAML?
<atmosx>
I have a sinatra app, and the output is printed in HAML files
<atmosx>
no no
<atmosx>
I was wondering if minitest could read output from haml's
<breakingthings>
oh
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<breakingthings>
I would think that's a BDD issue, not a TDD one.
<atmosx>
BBD statnds for?
<breakingthings>
Behavior
<breakingthings>
eg, Capybara/Cukes
<breakingthings>
but uh
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<breakingthings>
I'm not sure about reading from files specifically
<Hanmac>
does someone else think that Class.new(TrueClass) should raise an error?
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<breakingthings>
you could probably set up some test function to trigger and then read the output files for what you're wanting...
* breakingthings
shrugs
<breakingthings>
Hanmac: Whattaheckisdat.
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<Hanmac>
breakingthings it creates an new class with TrueClass as parent
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<apeiros>
Hanmac: from your question I assume that `class Foo < TrueClass` raises?
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<Hanmac>
apeiros: no, the problem is that it does not raise an error :D
<apeiros>
Hanmac: hm, well, if the normal form works, I don't see why Class.new one shouldn't…
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<blazes816>
they should both, is what I think he is saying
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<blazes816>
/should both/both should/
<Hanmac>
apeiros IMO both versions should not work because it does not make sense to make an child class of TrueClass,FalseClass and NilClass (they should act more like singleton_classes)
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<heftig>
I wonder why TrueClass, NilClass and FalseClass actually exist. why can't true, false and nil be instances of Object augmented with a metaclass?
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<heftig>
banisterfiend: any comment?
<jeremy```>
Hello - Can anyone recommend a tool for static analysis of Ruby code?
<banisterfiend>
heftig: they're immediates, which are more efficient i guess
<banisterfiend>
Objects are slower
<heftig>
jeremy```: ruby -c
<banisterfiend>
theyre' on the heap
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<heftig>
and immediates can't have singleton classes?
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<heftig>
and they're all still is_a? Object
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<Hanmac>
heftig: this three objects are the only one there this is true: [true,false,nil].all? {|o| o.class == o.singleton_class}
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<heftig>
ah, i see.
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<Scriptonaut>
guys, what is IO.readlines vs File.readlines?
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<Hanmac>
Scriptonaut: File.readlines is a classmethod
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<Scriptonaut>
Is IO a class?
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<Hanmac>
IO is the parentclass, but you are right they both define them on class
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<Scriptonaut>
Oh alright
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<Scriptonaut>
People were telling me I should use File.readlines rather than IO.readlines, is that true? Do they behave differently? Either way thanks for the help, it's not really a big deal
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<powerplay>
Hey everyone quick question about bundler/gems, I want to use a gem while in my rails console, but dont want to do it through Gemfile cause I wanna use it temporarly, is there any way to use a gem in rails console without doing bundle install?
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<Hanmac>
powerplay: #bundler & #rubyonrails
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<powerplay>
thanks
<ericwood>
#rubyonbundlerrails
<breakingthings>
I'll bundle your rails, if you know what I mean
<breakingthings>
And in the case that you do, please inform me, as I don't have the slightest clue.
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<Hanmac>
breakingthings i think he wants to be bundles on rails ... like in an old western movie
<breakingthings>
Hanmac like, when an old timey western cartoon villian ties someone to train tracks?
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<Hanmac>
yeah i think that he meens
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<breakingthings>
that's a pretty resonable request
<breakingthings>
i wish more people volunteered for that
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<graft>
is there a good way to search efficiently over a set of ranges?
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<sc077>
banisterfiend: thx!
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<Gate>
Xeago: check iptables and sshd_config
<Xeago>
check sshd_config for?
<Gate>
Xeago: I believe that you can define where incoming ssh connections can connect from.
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<Gate>
Xeago: the AllowUsers DenyUsers AllowGroups DenyGroups, also /etc/hosts.deny /etc/hosts.allow
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<sc077>
banisterfiend: so if Green is alreade a subclass of Foo::Bar by it's order in defined class hierarchy then what purpose does Green < Foo::Bar serve
<sc077>
s/alreade/already/
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<heftig>
it's not a subclass
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<phwd>
Can I talk about the Faraday gem here?
<heftig>
sc077: i.e. class Green wouldn't be a subclass of Bar, but class Green < Bar would be
<banisterfiend>
sc077: as heftig says it's not a subclass
<banisterfiend>
sc077: it's a "nested class" but in reality, it's not even that. It's just a nested constant :)
<banisterfiend>
well, teh class name is a nested constant
<banisterfiend>
the class itself couldn't give a fig what it's nested under
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<sc077>
ah ok. that makes more sense
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<banisterfiend>
sc077: some of this stuff is a bit subtle
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