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<fantastic4_orang>
hi all
<havenwood>
fantastic4_orang: hi
<fantastic4_orang>
is there a way i can generate an array of all UTF-8 characters
<havenwood>
fantastic4_orang: you really want a couple million characters?
<fantastic4_orang>
yep
<teatime>
the highest potentially-valid codepoint is 0x10FFFF
<elomatreb>
It gets especially difficult when you consider what a character is - Do you also want all possible ZWJ sequences?
<teatime>
the highest actually-assigned char is some lower number.
<teatime>
you can go through them and check each for validity.. we do this in #perl6 sometimes on the bot, but I dunno maybe it would be more problematic in Ruby? :)
<teatime>
also be clear what you mean when you say "character"
<teatime>
a "character" is a complicated thing in unicode
<fantastic4_orang>
doesnt matter if its printable or not, im just doing a sort of Caesar cipher type thing for example code. as long as i can cast the into to the right Unicode char and be able to compare one unicode char to another it should be enough
<fantastic4_orang>
* int
<teatime>
fantastic4_orang: perhaps you mean "codepoints" when you say "character".
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<teatime>
most people mean "grapheme" when they say "character"... e.g., how many characters would you say are in a unicode string encoding one Latin capital letter "A", and one combining-accent like "´"
<teatime>
displays as "Á
<teatime>
it displays as "Á", but it contains two codepoints
<havenwood>
Ruby 2.5 adds #each_grapheme_cluster and #grapheme_clusters
<teatime>
counting codepoints is trivial, counting graphemes is harder
<havenwood>
To complement #chars and #codepoints
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<teatime>
havenwood: hells yeah, I did not know that... thought only Perl6 was tackling that :)
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<RickHull>
matthewd: still around?
<matthewd>
RickHull: Yep
<RickHull>
see what I mean(t) about the elixir pipe operator, how it can't work for ruby unless all instance methods return self?
<RickHull>
that is: method chaining approximates the elixir pipe if we are rigorous about returning self
<matthewd>
Hmm.. only for Elixir functions that are equally rigorous about returning their first argument
<RickHull>
you should try elixir for a week ;)
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<matthewd>
Yeah, probably so. AIUI Elixir pipe only works given the assumption that each pipeline entry returns the right value to pass as the first argument to the next.
<RickHull>
the mechanism is very simple
<RickHull>
in elixir, it works nicely, consistently, and reliably
<RickHull>
and it expresses good things
<RickHull>
hooray!
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<matthewd>
.. which still sounds, to me, immaterially different from Ruby's chaining only working if each entry returns something suitable to pass as the zeroth argument
<RickHull>
fair enough, I am doing a poor job. Recall the primacy in ruby between the method receiver and the method's first arg
<RickHull>
right?
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<matthewd>
Right.. I think the argument is that there are Ruby methods which do a poor job of choosing their argument order (including the receiver)
<RickHull>
sort of
<RickHull>
in ruby you have a receiver and you have first arg
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<RickHull>
in elixir you just have a first arg
<matthewd>
I'm claiming that given an identical set of methods in Elixir and Ruby, which take exactly the same arguments in the same order (where the first arg in Elixir == the receiver in Ruby), Ruby's "." and Elixir's "|>" perform exactly the same operation
<RickHull>
recall the counterexample where i pump a float into the pipeline
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<matthewd>
"in ruby you have a receiver and you have first arg" is no different to me saying "in elixir you have a first arg and you have a second arg"
<RickHull>
and do I get a Float#method
<RickHull>
or a method(float)
<RickHull>
it matters which one you choose
<RickHull>
ruby didn't choose
<matthewd>
There's no such thing as method(float) -- it exists as a method with a receiver
<RickHull>
elixir chose
<matthewd>
You mean Elixir chose which argument to put first?
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<RickHull>
argh!
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<matthewd>
I agree that |> is in practice more ergonomic in Elixir
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<RickHull>
it has some deep follow-on effects :)
<matthewd>
I'm solely claiming that `a |> b(c, d)` and `a.b(c, d)` are mechanically identical to the respective interpreters -- both invoke `b` (though finding it using different rules) with an argument list of `a, c, d`.
<RickHull>
yikes, I can't untangle this on my own tonight -- been playing soccer
<RickHull>
but I like the thought :)
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<matthewd>
I think I'm mostly trying to dispute the notion that adding |> to Ruby is a practical / approachable 'fix' to gain the ergonomics Elixir provides (or, equivalently, be convinced I'm wrong)
<matthewd>
I mean.. maybe it is. Maybe supporting `a |> b.c(d)` as a fancy spelling for `c(b, a, d)` is interesting/necessary, despite Elixir not having a spelling for that argument mixture, *because* of Ruby's established argument-placement precedents.
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<RickHull>
more charitably, I would say that pipeline-oriented programming goes back to early unix days as well as foundational functional programming
<RickHull>
we understand intuitively what it means to pipe values through a pipeline of operations
<RickHull>
a tiny bit of transcendentalism gets you currying
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<teatime>
:q!
<teatime>
jeez, g
<RickHull>
how did perl6 work back in the olden days?
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<Murugesan>
Hi Everyone
<havenwood>
Murugesan: hi
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<Murugesan>
i am new to this.. what kind of discussion will be happening here ?
<havenwood>
Murugesan: We talk about the Ruby language and its libraries mostly.
<dminuoso_>
Murugesan: If you have questions that you could not answer yourself by a reasonable amount of research using documentation and google, then this is possibly the right place.
<Murugesan>
okay thanks for the clarification.. :)
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<Veejay>
Hello everyone, I am looking to interact with an interactive script (certbot using the manual plugin, which asks questions along the way). What would be the easiest way to start that script in a Ruby script and send it user input programatically? Something from Open3, PTY, some expect library?
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<rob_>
Veejay: 'expect' is a tool to do what you've described, it's not ruby though
<ruby[bot]>
garyserj: irb is "interactive ruby", it is part of ruby. You can run ruby code and see results immediately. it's useful for testing code. Also see ?pry, a gem which is a popular alternative to irb.
<havenwood>
?pry
<ruby[bot]>
Pry, the better IRB, provides easy object inspection `ls`, `history`, viewing docs `?`, viewing source `$`, syntax highlighting and other features (see `help` for more). Put `binding.pry` in your source code for easy debugging. Install Pry (https://pryrepl.org/): gem install pry pry-doc
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