havenwood changed the topic of #ruby to: Rules: https://ruby-community.com | Ruby 3.0.0, 2.7.2, 2.6.6: https://www.ruby-lang.org | Paste 4+ lines of text to https://dpaste.org | Books: https://goo.gl/wpGhoQ | Logs: https://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby | BLM <3
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<leftylink> oh, I think you can do something silly, but you have to use a custom mutable type for it so you can't do it with integers
<leftylink> just a second
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<leftylink> also you only can support preincreement not postincrement
<leftylink> &>> class Plus; def initialize(a); @a=a end; def +@; @a.n += 1 end end; class A; attr_accessor :n; def +@; Plus.new(self) end; def initialize(n); @n=n end end; def to_s; @n.to_s end; a = A.new(1); ++a; a
<rubydoc> # => #<A:0x000055e7d6e5e6b0 @n=2> (https://carc.in/#/r/a9hx)
<leftylink> I meant inspect
<leftylink> &>> class Plus; def initialize(a); @a=a end; def +@; @a.n += 1 end end; class A; attr_accessor :n; def +@; Plus.new(self) end; def initialize(n); @n=n end end; def inspect; @n.to_s end; a = A.new(1); ++a; a
<rubydoc> # => 2 (https://carc.in/#/r/a9hy)
<leftylink> so yeah this is the worst
<leftylink> although... hmm
<leftylink> let's see if we can't do something even worse
<leftylink> than what I thought was already the worst
<leftylink> oh no
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<samoersand> Hi; where can i provide feedback about `$/` and `$\` being deprecated?
<havenwood> samoersand: Oops, i totally failed to answer that. >.> You can comment on this issue but it'd probably be best to start a new issue, and link to this: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14240
<samoersand> I saw https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14240 this, but it was made 3 years ago, so it didn't seem like it was going to happen any time soon. But with all the deprecations happening in 3.2
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<sampersand> cool ok
<havenwood> An issue is the best way to get feedback. Then if it's not closed and seems viable, you can add it to the next developer meeting for discussions.
<sampersand> i know flipflops are no longer on the chopping block, so i figured why not my pet globals
<havenwood> Matz will sometimes just green light from the issue but for bigger stuff seems to usually go to dev meeting.
<havenwood> haha
<sampersand> also, without `$/` there's no way to do paragraph mode, no?
<havenwood> sampersand: Flip flops were saved!
<havenwood> sampersand: (Couldn't figure out a reasonable way to implement a few things.)
<havenwood> At least I *think* that's the case. I'm distrusting my memory today...
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<havenwood> sampersand: Yeah, a "no way to do this anymore" case might indeed save it...
<havenwood> I don't know.
<sampersand> i mean i find `$;` and `$,` generally useless outside of golfing or "WTF" moments, but the other two i genuinely use.
<sampersand> oh, i also found an oddity: If you use a regex literal in an `if` statement, you get a warning but it still matches against `$_`. But if you negate it (eg, `unless !/.../` ), then no warning is logged but you get the same functionality. intended?
<havenwood> sampersand: I think `!/.../` statement is getting evaluated first to `true` before the warning check.
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<havenwood> &>> !/.../
<rubydoc> # => true (https://carc.in/#/r/a9i0)
<sampersand> you're totally right!
<sampersand> hm...
<sampersand> &>> $_="a"; if !/j/ then p 1 else p 2 end; if !/a/ then p 1 else p 2 end
<rubydoc> # => 1... check link for more (https://carc.in/#/r/a9i1)
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<sampersand> another question: why on earth wasy `=` chosen instead of `=>` for endless methods? it makes stuff like `def foo(x) = @stuff[x] or raise "whoops"` not behave as expected
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<havenwood> sampersand: It was a colon in earlier iterations.
<havenwood> sampersand: At the time, => was going to be rightward assignment
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<havenwood> sampersand: It was like: def foo(x): @stuff[x] => @x
<havenwood> Hmmm
<sampersand> a colon's even worse .-. and i think using `=>` for endless expressions would be good because it'd both get rid of the lack of setter endless methods, as well as it'd be unambiguous ( `def foo(x)` isn't a valid expression)
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<sampersand> plus, stuff like `def initialize(x=3) = @x = x` is just hard to parse mentally
<scriptonaut> what uses less memory, a stack (really just an array that I treat like a stack) or recursion?
<sampersand> a stack; recursion has to set up a whole new call frame
<scriptonaut> ok
<scriptonaut> I will use a stack then, or a queue if I do breadth first traversal
<scriptonaut> I guess I should calculate the width and depth of my tree to see which one is smaller and go with that
<scriptonaut> I was thinking since ruby is always pass by value, that recursion might use less memory
<scriptonaut> it would really help if I could pass by reference to my array
<sampersand> you're going to be using the value anyways, either in an array or a stack. so the size of it's irrelevant, no?
<sampersand> what are you trying to pass by reference?
<scriptonaut> sampersand: I'm going to be using them, but let's say I put it in a queue, and my tree's average level has 30 nodes. That means I need to keep 30 arrays in memory at a time
<scriptonaut> if the tree is only 6 levels deep, I would only need to keep 6 in memory at at ime
<scriptonaut> time**
<sampersand> oh i see what you mean. recursion sounds better then
<scriptonaut> cuz with breadth first traversal, I scan the tree horizontally before moving down a level
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<scriptonaut> ya, I'm going to write a method to calculate the max width of my tree
<scriptonaut> and see which is larger
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<scriptonaut> each node has a collection of active record objects, on the 2nd level of my tree one of the nodes already has 10,000 records
<sampersand> you can also use `require 'benchmark'` to test it out
<scriptonaut> ah cool, I'll look into that, thanks
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<sampersand> what's the most active ruby community?
<sampersand> i know of the discord and this irc, but both are sadly somewhat quiet :(
<havenwood> sampersand: There's a Rails Slack channel but I don't know of any more active Ruby chat community.
<sampersand> that's really disappointing :(
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<sampersand> i want `.find_map` :(
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<havenwood> sampersand: Elixir calls that one Enum.find_value.
<havenwood> sampersand: Interesting https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/8421
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<havenwood> sampersand: lazy.filter_map{..}.first
<havenwood> It looks like Matz isn't against it so much as wants concrete use case.
<havenwood> Still in Feedback after 7 years. :)
<sampersand> yeah, i posted two examples in the discord. i'll put 'em ehre for posterity
<sampersand> First: `tokenizers.find_map { _1.parse!(stream) }` —find get the first token that can be created from the stream. Second: `fruits.find_map { TASTINESS[_1] }`  — get the tastiness of the first fruit that exists
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<havenwood> An aside, but I love we can do one-liners now without ;s...
<havenwood> module Enumerable def find_value(&block) = lazy.filter_map(&block).first end
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<sampersand> wait what
<sampersand> that's amazing havenwood
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<panorain> hi
<havenwood> panorain: hi
<panorain> Thank you for allowing me to think about 'Ruby' I think about openSUSE. ok I listen. Ruby lines are nice.
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<xco> anyone seeing my messages?
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<xco> sent a message earlier and got no response and my msgs earlier are not in the logs :D :D
<sampersand> hi
<sampersand> what was your msg
<sampersand> xco
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<xco> oh looks like things are working now :)
<xco> just a sec
<xco> msg was
<xco> i'm playing with this new rightward assignment thing
<xco> syntax error on line 5
<xco> any ideas?
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<xco> on ruby 3 btw
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<havenwood> xco: traits => [height, width]
<havenwood> xco: (It's one-liner pattern matching now rather than rightward assignment.)
<xco> havenwood thanks. so rightward assignment is replace by one-liner parttern matching now? is that what this means?
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<havenwood> xco: The syntax was repurposed for now but it's "experimental" so may change in 3.1.
<xco> oh i see. thanks havenwood
<xco> :)
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<sampersand> so, did i miss anything?
<baweaver> Pattern matching shenanigans
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<sampersand> oh fun
<baweaver> Still working on the article for the refactor, but this is the hacked up at 2am in a repl version: https://dev.to/baweaver/ruby-3-pattern-matching-applied-poker-4b9d
<baweaver> You can tell I'm hacking things together if you see Struct at the top of a script XD
<sampersand> i wish `=>` was also used for endless methods D:
<sampersand> (also your `def sort()` looks blasphemous to me lol)
<baweaver> Probably
<baweaver> If I was behaving I'd put Enumerable on it and proxy Array methods to @cards
<sampersand> > CARDS = SUITS.flat_map { |s| RANKS.map { |r| Card[s, r] } }.freeze
<sampersand> why not use `_1`?
<baweaver> You can't nest them
<sampersand> sure, but for `RANKS`?
<baweaver> It'd add to that confusion
<sampersand> ah; so explicitly do it to make it clearer?
<baweaver> As clear as 2am baweaver can be
<sampersand> lol
<baweaver> The gist is my apology for imposing that on Ruby twitter
<sampersand> tbh today's my first time on the ruby irc, even tho ive used ruby almost daily for 4+ years
<baweaver> We still hang around here on occasion
<baweaver> Heck, eam back in the day talked me into working at Square, and then we stole havenwood
<baweaver> So the running joke is it's a secret Square recruiting platform
<baweaver> Though if you're on Twitter there's a lot of active folk about
<baweaver> Slack tends to be the other one
<sampersand> heh, havenwood introduced me to the irc; i hang out on the discord mainly
<baweaver> Ah, HollywoodRB?
<sampersand> (by mainly i mean im by far the most active participant)
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<sampersand> i have a lot of comments about 1.0 (plz don't deprecate `$/` lol) but im having trouble posting it)
<sampersand> 3.0* whoops
<baweaver> Me and Zverok ended up talking the Ruby core team into a lot of concessions on adding pattern matching to the language
<baweaver> k_tsj implemented it and we got real close to some of the original implementations with Qo from back in the day.
<sampersand> i mean, i like it so i can tout it to my friends, but i dont use it
<baweaver> &>> ??
<rubydoc> # => "?" (https://carc.in/#/r/a9iz)
<sampersand> nor do i use fibers or ractor
<baweaver> There's that one too
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<sampersand> also, this
<sampersand> &>> Ractor.allocate.initialize
<rubydoc> stderr: -e:4:in `<main>': uninitialized constant Ractor (NameError)... check link for more (https://carc.in/#/r/a9j0)
<sampersand> hm
<sampersand> well, that segfaults on my machine
<baweaver> &>> !!??
<rubydoc> # => true (https://carc.in/#/r/a9j1)
<baweaver> Ractor is very beta at the moment
<sampersand> yeah
<baweaver> Amusingly to use Ractor effectively you end up going real hard functional
<sampersand> i already use ruby fairly functionally lol
<sampersand> (which is why `Enumerator#find_map` should exist >.>)
<baweaver> I'd be willing to bet people start rediscovering Future, Either, Maybe, IO, and State real quick
<sampersand> idk, it feels like there's a lot of stuff i _should_ like in 3.0, but i dont
<sampersand> wait, `Either` / `Maybe` exist in Ruby? or am i misinterpreting
<baweaver> Not quite yet
<sampersand> lol ruby monads would complete my life
<sampersand> but, the "header typing system"'s a headache in the first place
<baweaver> But if they want Ractor to work well those patterns are going to start emerging organically until someone reminds them what monads are.
<baweaver> Hindley Milner?
<sampersand> what about it?
<sampersand> also, there's a 7-year-old issue for deprecating `$/` and `$\` , and i want to not have them deprecated; should i make a new issue, or reply to the old one?
<baweaver> Soutaro is at Square too so we can bribe him into adding some support for more sum and product types :D
<sampersand> i use `$/` and `$\` _all the time_ (idc about `$;` lol)
<baweaver> Could make a new one, but who knows.
<sampersand> `$,` could go either way
<baweaver> (Soutaro is behind Steep and RBS)
<sampersand> im new to contributing in the first place
<sampersand> i literally just activated my ruby bugs account during our convo
<baweaver> Speaking of I should really do an article on how Steep and friends work later.
<baweaver> Well I should get some sleep tonight
<baweaver> 'night!
<sampersand> cya!
<sampersand> nice article btw
<sampersand> i _hate_ the `=` syntax for single line functions wow. i wish it was `=>`
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<leah2> but => is assignment! it should be <= :p
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<Borg> howdy
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<Borg> I have question about Data_Make_Struct class argument.. Im doing some simple module... and I want pass struct to ruby (no class.. just bounch of data) so it have no initializers.. and Im not sure what I can put in there... I used 0 as argument.. and it works.
<Borg> but.. I dont see anything in documentation about it.. is it legit use?
<leah2> it's literally been decades since i last used the C API, but in the ruby source you find cases where Data_Make_Struct is used with 0
<Borg> oh.. cool.. them its legit.. thx
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<al2o3-cr> def x = 42 => :x => m; [x, m] # endless method definition, one-line pattern matching and right-hand assignment all in one.
<al2o3-cr> WOW
* leah2 goes back to perl :p
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<Borg> leah2: yuck^5 ;)
<Borg> leah2: last time I touched perl.. was like 15 years ago? or so.. and I decided.. enof... and I found ruby and never looked back :D
<leah2> fun fact: i properly learned perl after using ruby for a few years
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<Borg> okey.. now something more complicated.. is there a way to register Struct from C?
<Borg> lets say, struct point { int x;int y; }; and I want it to be registered in ruby as Point struct, aka Point=Struct.new :x, :y
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<Borg> probably no shortcut here.. I need to use full flegged Class...
<Borg> w/ method like accessors..
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<Borg> or not.. I can try use rb_define_attr()
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<FrankyCyborg> compared to the "usual" configure, make, make check / test, make install routine when installing other software, is there an equivalent for the "make check / test" -step when installing ruby gems with the 'gem' program? like running a testsuite, checking for missing (optional) dependencies etc.
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<adam12> FrankyCyborg: Not really.
<adam12> FrankyCyborg: Most gems don't ship tests/specs, and some that have don't anymore (ie. Sequel).
<FrankyCyborg> so... in the end it's like I have to trust that everything works out
<FrankyCyborg> I would see errors (if there are any in those gems) much later after installing, let's say 700 of the 'basic' gems, which are widely used by other gems - hm, well, if that's it in the ruby world .. ok
<adam12> FrankyCyborg: Are you basing this on experiences in another language?
<adam12> I'm not sure I've ever seen 700 dependencies _ever_.
<adam12> Maybe a couple dozen.
<adam12> If you're installing software, the software should be testing it's dependencies.
<FrankyCyborg> https://rubygems.org/gems/hyper-model would be an example for a gem with quite a lot direct dependencies
<adam12> FrankyCyborg: Definitely a bunch, but in practice, only 4 _direct_ dependencies when using `gem install`.
<adam12> (those 4 probably have some transitive dependencies).
<adam12> But that's a great example. To run tests, you'd likely need the other 36 + their dependencies.
<adam12> Not sure I'd want that many pulled in, just to gem install in production.
<FrankyCyborg> what I mean is, that it's "normal", when you install perl and then all those modules, which are usually required, let's say for XML::Parser, which in turn is used by other third-party non-perl software, you end up with about 300 perl packages installed (out of the, I don't know how many thousands there are on cpan.org)
<FrankyCyborg> so, I expect it would be similar with ruby (or python, or erlang, haskell, ..)
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<FrankyCyborg> therefore there are some modules, which are "usually" there / to be installed, when you want something like a "minimum complete" environment in ruby on a machine - and since I just a DESTDIR installation approach for distribution at a later time, I was just wondering, if, like it is with perl modules and most other software so far, there is check / test phase with ruby gems - but if there is usually not, then it's ok, I would stop my
<FrankyCyborg> investigation about that now
<adam12> FrankyCyborg: Ruby relies on Semver + good packaging principles more than running tests on install, if I was to wage an opinion.
<adam12> FrankyCyborg: The gem you provided as an example relies on a bunch of database-related dev dependencies. These wouldn't really be testable easily during the install process, so I think it's generally just easier to rely on semver+CI.
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<adam12> Not running the full test suite (ie. no mysql database available) would just be a false sense of security anyways.
<FrankyCyborg> interesting approach of ruby.. regarding the testsuites (of other software): I run it always (if possible) to have a log about it and to detect missing (optional) dependencies - but main reason is to be able to check the log and maybe compare it with those from other machines/os
<FrankyCyborg> it also means, that I can now remove/comment any lines in my packaging script about trying to invoke a test/check routine, when it comes to ruby modules.
<adam12> FrankyCyborg: It's rare that I run into optional dependencies in practice, at least for something I `gem install`. Applications built are different, but they are deployed differently as well.
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<adam12> There's actually no real support for "optional dependencies" as far as the package manager goes. It's either a dependency to run, or a dependency for development. I wonder if other package managers offer a more granular specification.
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<adam12> Maybe an optional dependency could use `Kernel.gem` to restrict what it supports...
<JanHebler[m]> I never experience a missing dependeny with ruby gems. The dependencies should noted in the gem itself. And if the developer is to lazy to write the correct dependencies, i hardly doubt that he is diligent enough to wrote meaningful tests anyway.
<adam12> I think there's a spec field for defining optional deps, but it's freeform. Like `requires libpq >= x` or something.
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<FrankyCyborg> so.. what would happen, if try to install hyper-model for example and no dependency of those which are listed on that webpage is present on the system?
<FrankyCyborg> would 'gem' happily install it or start complaining?
<adam12> FrankyCyborg: It will install them for you.
<adam12> (the 4, not the 36)
<adam12> By default; you can turn this off of course, but default is to resolve and install dependencies.
<FrankyCyborg> ah see, that's what must never happen (in this project of mine) - it's required that I install each software for its own to have a sane and comparable log file
<FrankyCyborg> must be the '--ignore-dependencies' parameter to 'gem' as it seems
<JanHebler[m]> Then maybe it is better you go with bundler.
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<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: Is `CONFIG[:database]` just `nil`?
<havenwood> That's why I prefer: CONFIG.fetch(:database)
<havenwood> With #fetch you get an explicit error rather than having to track down a `nil`.
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<Cubixusin[m]> <havenwood "Cubixusin: Is `CONFIG[:database]"> nope, its declared. Its just variable with value "database"
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<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: Share the full backtrace?
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<jidar> bad bot!
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<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: Please be careful to only paste a message once. You're spamming.
<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: Could you please show the error output?
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<Cubixusin[m]> <havenwood "Cubixusin: Could you please show"> sorry,
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<Cubixusin[m]> havenwood: i change `db = Sequel.connect(CONFIG[:database])` to `db = Sequel.sqlite(CONFIG[:database])` and datebase was created. Someone can explain ?
<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: You still haven't shown the error, as far as I've seen. Maybe I missed it?
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<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: Are you getting an error backtrace in your output? If so, please share it with us. Or is it hanging rather than giving you an error?
<Cubixusin[m]> <havenwood "Cubixusin: You still haven't sho"> `NoMethodError: undefined method `to_sym' for nil:NilClass`
<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: That was the full output???
<havenwood> No backtrace whatsoever?
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<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: P.S. There's a #sequel channel here and a Google Group too.
<havenwood> Cubixusin[m]: I'm not spotting your issue but can't look closely right now. Hang out and I bet someone will be able to help. :)
<Cubixusin[m]> anyway the problem is in line:
<Cubixusin[m]> `Sequel.connect` when i change to `Sequel.sqlite` it works. Its weird for me.
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<Cubixusin[m]> * anyway the problem is in line:
<Cubixusin[m]> `Sequel.connect` when i change to `Sequel.sqlite` it works. Its weird for me. Thank for help ;)
<Cubixusin[m]> `Sequel.connect` when i change to `Sequel.sqlite` it works. Its weird for me. Thank for help ;)
<Cubixusin[m]> * anyway the problem is in line: `db = Sequel.connect(CONFIG[:database])`
<prion> the power of Matrix
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<leftylink> hi so those of you in this channel remember that there was a thing that a person wanted to happen. I see now that it did not happen
<leftylink> I would express my sympathies to that person, but as you all know I wasn't all that jazzed about the thing happening anyway
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<prion> leftylink: why so vague
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<leftylink> I don't want the person to think I'm disparaging them, therefore I am being vague
<prion> anyone who knows what you're talking about will see it that way regardless
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<leftylink> that's a little frustrating then
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