00:20 <isd> Ah, it's the capnproto type in JSON encoding. That could have been more clear.

00:20 <isd> (Had to dig through the shell's source code to figure it out...)

00:55 <Zarutian> ill_logic: NAS stands for Network Access Storage

01:16 <kpcyrd> hey. I'm monitoring a github project and noticed somebody requested a sandstorm app. This project already has a dockerfile in place. Is it, in theory, possible to run that as sandstorm app?

01:16 <ill_logic> Zarutian: I understand. But when people sell me on it, they mention other features.

01:17 <kpcyrd> also, I've looked into sandstorm for the first time, I was a bit confused by vagrant and how sandstorm apps are actually patched

01:17 <kpcyrd> I assumed it's already using docker under the hood

01:17 <Zarutian> ill_logic: then it is just an application server with huge storage.

01:19 <isd> kpcyrd: It isn't using docker; it does it's own sandboxing. It's based on some of the same underlying technogolies (e.g linux namespaces & cgroups) but also makes use of some other stuff (e.g. seccomp-bpf to wall off syscalls).

01:20 <isd> And the way apps talk to sandstorm isn't the same as what you'd have in a docker container. It's unlikley to work "out of the box," but depending on the application, it may be easier or harder to port it. What's the app in question?

01:20 <isd> The vagrant thing is just a development tool -- once you've packaged up the app vagrant is out of the equation.

01:24 <kpcyrd> isd: I see, that makes more sense

01:24 <kpcyrd> isd: this is the app, it's similar to etherpad: https://github.com/xwiki-labs/cryptpad/issues/48

01:24 <Zarutian> isd: what is the syscall interface to carry capnproto messages usually? just through stdout and stdin?

01:25 <isd> Zarutian: your app gets launched with an rpc socket on file descriptor 3

01:25 <isd> If you're using sandstorm-http-bridge, it re-exports the api via a unix socket somewhere in /tmp.

01:26 <Zarutian> lsd: and that is it, yes? Dont be surprised to see an sandstorm application written in something like Forth turn up

01:26 <isd> :P

01:28 <isd> I'd very much welcome apps written in atypical web languages.

01:29 <isd> A lot of apps have lousy startup times, which is a problem since sandstorm shuts them down when they're idle. Much better UX if you've got something that doesn't have all that overhead

01:31 <Zarutian> isd: so basically a freeze imaged at one point in developement and written out as an executable is prefered?

01:33 <isd> Not sure I follow?

01:36 <Zarutian> isd: hmm.. you know emulators like the ones for snes? It is possible to 'freeze state' to file and reload later. That is similiar to what I described except the 'emulator' is the usual unix process internal enviroment and only one 'freeze state' exists that gets loaded and run.

01:37 <isd> Ah. Yeah, kentonv mentioned the idea of using snappy-start to do something along those lines

01:37 <isd> Not quite the same.

01:38 <isd> I really think the right solution is to just fix the startup times in the frameworks we're using -- the requirements here really aren't hard to achieve.

01:39 <Zarutian> if the startup is exactly the same every time then why not use the method I described and I suspect kentonv named snappy-start?

01:41 <isd> https://github.com/google/snappy-start

01:44 <isd> It's a reasonable solution, esp. when you're looking for something general that solves the problem for most frameworks across the board.

01:45 <isd> But ideally we'd just fix the problem upstream, rather than adding even more stuff to the pile of software we're dependent on.

01:45 <isd> meh.

03:10 <Zarutian> isd: in what I described the elf binary would most likely be handcrafted or assembled. (One page sized primitives 'kernel' text section and then a huge data section with the Forth dictionary)

05:19 <ill_logic> If I want to set up Sandstorm for a totally isolated scenario, do I have options for authentication?

05:19 <ill_logic> Google and Github not accessible. email impractical unless everybody's email server is on the network.

05:19 <ill_logic> Would I want to set up LDAP? I'm not familiar with LDAP so I'm not sure.

05:22 <ill_logic> And I guess the wildcard domain issue isn't settled either, still needs sandcats.

07:14 <maurer> Wildcard domain does not require sandcats, it's simply the easiest way to set it up

13:30 <TimMc> ill_logic: There's also LDAP.

14:39 <ill_logic> TimMc: Right. So LDAP is an option for completely off-the-grid?

14:44 <ill_logic> Is there a way to look at log files?

14:44 <ill_logic> long ones?

14:45 <ill_logic> I'm running my own server now.

14:48 <ill_logic> that was easy

14:48 <ill_logic> found log files

14:49 <ill_logic> oh it deletes it after some time

14:49 <ill_logic> that's not very useful for me here :-/

15:01 <ill_logic> oh right! log rotation, there it is

15:01 <ill_logic> hmm, no still seems to miss it

15:27 <ill_logic> Interesting. uploading large files on two different grains at once slowed it down a lot

17:19 <TimMc> ill_logic: I haven't used the LDAP option, but I don't see why it wouldn't work on a disconnected network.

17:20 <ill_logic> Okay. I just don't know the UI for LDAP. I presume users need to create an account on there first.

17:28 <TimMc> I believe it's a protocol with a number of implementations. I usually hear of it being used inside corporations; IT would set up a new LDAP account for a new employee and give them a temporary password; the employee then sets the password via some OS integration.

17:29 <maurer> LDAP is a protocol that is used to access either ActiveDirectory or slapd servers

17:29 <maurer> It does not have a great inherent way to register users, you'd have to set something else up for that

17:30 <maurer> (it's permission system is not fine grained enough to allow users to insert themselves without being able to edit other users)

17:44 <ill_logic> Okay. I'm trying to envision a situation where an offline community could have people easily come in, quickly make an account, and start using SS

17:58 <isd> ill_logic: check out freeipa

17:59 <isd> Makes setting up the whole ldap mess a lot easier.

18:45 <ill_logic> isd: Thanks, noted.

21:07 <isd> no problem.

22:21 <isd> So, I'm futzing around with trying to build a disqus/isso like app for sandstorm. (A while back I looked at porting isso and decided it wasn't worth the trouble).

22:22 <isd> I'm getting close to POC stage, but I'm hanging up on one issue -- I've got a form that's rendering on the static page that posts to the sandstorm API, and that works, but I can't figure out how to redirect back to the original page.

22:23 <isd> I guess I could do the post via javascript. But my naive attempt to just shove a redirect field and then do a redirect didn't work, sandstorm seems to block that.

22:24 <isd> Maybe I'll try the <meta> tag trick.

22:37 <isd> nvm, figured out the problem.