ChanServ changed the topic of #zig to: zig programming language | https://ziglang.org | be excellent to each other | channel logs: https://irclog.whitequark.org/zig/
<daurnimator> gamester: I don't think you're sick of the OS; you're sick of X11
<daurnimator> gamester: go check out arcan
<daurnimator> I just googled that to see what you'd get and saw no useful results. so here's the project's homepage: https://arcan-fe.com/
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<pellsson> hello :) is there a way add arbitrary linker flags?
<pellsson> to add*
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<tgschultz> andrewrk: why is `@typeOf(&slice[item])` `[*]Type` instead of `*Type`? These are not C types, taking a pointer to a single item should be a single item pointer right??
<tgschultz> oh, nevermind. My blood sugar must be low, I completely misread this error for the past 10 minutes. I guess I should eat lunch.
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<Xe> andrewrk: i had a zig section of my webassembly talk at gocon!
<scientes> hahahahaha
<scientes> invader!
<scientes> not that they really compete, go has a gc
<Xe> scientes: i even called out Zig's brevity :D
<emekankurumeh[m]> i hope you said all good things ;)
<Xe> oh i did
<Xe> recording is pending, i'm still waiting for it too
<shachaf> I saw those notes but I don't understand the motivation at all.
<scientes> shachaf, its web people
<scientes> they get excited about old technology, anyways, I'm not trying to be critical
<Xe> shachaf: okay so i'm tired of relying on intel
<shachaf> It says it "makes hardware less relevant" and "removes the OS from the equation". But the hardware is still relevant and the OS is still in the equation.
<Xe> i want to make it easier to get off the amd64 train
<shachaf> It's just hidden behind the WebAssembly interpreter instead of a cross-compiler target or a library.
<Xe> well no shit, pardon my french
<Xe> this just removes the linux abi and the amd64 bytecode requirement from the stack
<scientes> but it doesn't
<Xe> effectively i want to do a lot of the stuff IBM did with i
<scientes> why not just use Java(tm)?
<Xe> that means oracle
<shachaf> But what's the benefit over a platform abstraction library and a cross-compiler?
<scientes> that is what Java was all about
<Xe> also
<Xe> i want to get in at the ground floor of this
<scientes> but no-one is going to write web-assembly, why would they?
<Xe> a friend of mine is working on a native binary -> wasm transpiler
* Xe shrugs
<Xe> i don't expect you all to understand my interest in this stuff, this is stuff i really get excited about though
<scientes> Intel doesn't really implement the x86 instruction set either
<scientes> they just translate into a secret internal instruction set
<shachaf> scientes: You're being a little hostile here. I suggest that it doesn't help.
<scientes> sorry
<Xe> i mean yeah i realize i'm reinventing the concept of a JVM
<scientes> WebASM will certainly succeed
<scientes> it already has
<scientes> I'm just not excited about
<Xe> worst case i end up becoming an expert in a field that basically nobody understands
<Xe> the horror ya know lol
<shachaf> Well, the JVM is obviously not suitable for a lot of things.
<Xe> i'm not hoping to make a magic bullet
<scientes> yeah it really can't be compared
<Xe> i just wanna do cool stuff with computers lol
<scientes> I forget his name, but I was at the LLVM conference and asked a guy about what he thought about emscripten, and he just said it was another platform
<scientes> and I think that is the right attitude
<shachaf> It's an easy argument that this is better than the JVM for sending programs to web browsers.
<scientes> as the emscripten mozilla guys were giving a presentation there
<scientes> its also better than asm.js
<shachaf> But it's not clear to me how it helps on the server.
<scientes> which was the whole point
<Xe> half the reason i wanna do it on the server is to just see what it's like
<scientes> I also get the reason of trying to reduce the complexity that you are exposed to
<Xe> i'd like to try replacing ioctl() with a concept i'm calling "control streams"
<Xe> where you put stringly typed key=value pairs
<Xe> i honestly don't expect to get anywhere significant with this, i don't expect to become the next steve gates, i just wanna try stuff and see what it's like
<Xe> worst case i learn how to _not_ make a lightbulb, ya know?
* Xe shrugs
<Xe> i'm a hobbyist coder turned professional tbh
<scientes> there is certainly a problem with low level stuff that there is so much going on
<scientes> its hard to know what to pay attention to
<Xe> i've gotten pretty far with just 5 system calls
<Xe> open/close/read/write/flush
<Xe> gonna probably add a clock and a yield or something
<scientes> yield?
<scientes> you mean sched()?
<Xe> or something, i'm not entirely sure yet
<scientes> ahh sched_yield() haha
<Xe> the main thing i'm playing with is the idea i'm calling "plan 9 taken three steps farther"
<Xe> everything's a stream
<scientes> oh geeze, will firefox now have a debugger where you can stop and step and read the registers?
<Xe> i'd like to do crazy stuff like transactional computing
<Xe> or like
<scientes> pretty soon Knuth will have to abandon the MMIX and replace it with webASM
<Xe> try to parse json and if you fail, uncompute the parsing, bail and fail
<Xe> then you can send implications to other parts of the stack to fail the transaction
<Xe> automatically
<Xe> without you having to care
* Xe shrugs