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<lanefu>
my pineh64s finally came from ameridroid yay
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<flyback>
ugh
<flyback>
what is this talk of linux abandoning 32 bit
<flyback>
I can understand some of it but 32 bit arm?
* flyback
blames the nearest canadian
<flyback>
this is your fault
<flyback>
BMCC
<Xogium>
can you stop with the blaming canadian shit ? You're offensive man
<flyback>
it's not supposted to be
<Xogium>
well, it is
<flyback>
yeah you are one of 10 people in 20 yrs who was offense
<flyback>
so sorry whatever im done
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<lanefu>
linux is abandoning 32bit? you talking i386 or i586 abandoning..
<[TheBug]>
i386 I believe
<[TheBug]>
they been talking about it for a while
<[TheBug]>
and I don't think that will have to do with 32bit arm
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<[TheBug]>
whats weird is none of the articles on it are specific about that
<[TheBug]>
but I would imagine 32bit arm would have to be seperate from i386
<[TheBug]>
there is too many 32bit arm devices to just drop support for ARM 32bit I would think
<flyback>
ill have to find the article
<[TheBug]>
I mean I was reading a few of them
<flyback>
but they made it sound like they were thinking of dropping 32 bit arm as well
<[TheBug]>
they do say 32bit but the authors of the article don't seem to be super specific other than eluding to meaning i386
<[TheBug]>
but if you see something specific I would be interested to know for sure
<flyback>
I give up
<flyback>
I can't find it
<[TheBug]>
well
<[TheBug]>
I think those whom are writing on this
<[TheBug]>
just wantt o make hype
<flyback>
and I wasnt talking about i386, I know that's dead
<[TheBug]>
the real news is it isn't 'Linux' as in the kerne, it's the Distros deciding to discontinmue support
<flyback>
wasn't a topic about distros either it was a kernel devel talk
<[TheBug]>
so for example, Armbian would need to decide they don't want to support 32bit and stop providing pacakges for 32bit arm packages for Armbian to disappear
<[TheBug]>
"Many other distros still provide 32-bit versions for you to download. Debian, the distro Ubuntu is based on, still provides a 32-bit option. There are also many Linux distros that specifically target older hardware, which includes making 32-bit support more of a priority.
<[TheBug]>
And even long after most major Linux distros have decided to 32-bit hardware behind, you can expect there to be a niche distro out there for relatively ancient devices. That's simply how the Linux world works.
<[TheBug]>
"
<Tonymac32>
H3, RK3288, exynos whatever (XU4)
<Tonymac32>
quite a few pieces of hardware represented just by that
<lanefu>
yeah i can't imagine that going anywhere
<lanefu>
embedded devices out the ass
<[TheBug]>
My understanding was it was whether or not the distros are going to continue to build the 32bit packages and provide them -- not whether the kernel it's self would quit being provided as 32bit
<[TheBug]>
so it would be up to the Distro whether they will provide 32bit packages or not
<[TheBug]>
in the case of Armbian we would obviously have a requirement to continue to support 32bit as that is a lot of boards we support
<flyback>
it was not a distro thing
<flyback>
it was a kernel thing
<[TheBug]>
source? I can't seem to find any articles suggesting it was about the kernel -- can find many suggesting that various distros will be dicontinuing their 32bit support though
<[TheBug]>
discontinuing*
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<stipa>
too bad 32bit support can't be embedded somehow in the kernel and be able to just work if machine can provide needed resources. But i'm not that smart to know why it's not possible.
<stipa>
i tought that what ever is written today for Linux will work forever, like drivers do i guess
<stipa>
but it's logical to ocnclude that i386 can't run some new stuff, that's true
<pmjdebruijn>
it's really not about can't
<pmjdebruijn>
it's really about is it worth the effort
<pmjdebruijn>
it takes quite a bit of effort for a distro to keep supporting an arch, so if less than 1% of users use that arch, do you keep supporting it?
<pmjdebruijn>
for a community distro like debian, that's remain doable as long as community members are willing to bear that weight
<pmjdebruijn>
for commercial distros it's usually more of a business decision
<pmjdebruijn>
also, a 64bit kernel can run 32bit code just fine
<pmjdebruijn>
you just needs some 32bit compat libs to do so
<stipa>
sure, but downside is that old hardware has to be thrown away
<stipa>
beceuse even if it can work on old kernel it won't be compatible with new one and new technologies
<pmjdebruijn>
only if one steps up, to bear the burden
<pmjdebruijn>
no-one*
<pmjdebruijn>
debian still supports i386 IIRC
<stipa>
well, whole Linux is based on let's do it till everyone gives up
<pmjdebruijn>
keep in mind that machines have been 64bit for along time now
<pmjdebruijn>
most sorts of usecases for which 32bit x86 machines are still good, can also be done with an rpi4, at a tenth of the power usage
<pmjdebruijn>
so I can see why support is waning
<stipa>
we'll see
<stipa>
arm could easily overtake the market
<stipa>
and maybe one day linux will drop support for x86 na 64
<pmjdebruijn>
don't hold your breath
<pmjdebruijn>
also let's hope not
<stipa>
maybe power will become scarce
<stipa>
who knows what future will bring
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<stipa>
data ceters are in love with low power consumption, ARMs could make them happy
<stipa>
arms are in every handhelds practically
<stipa>
apple is pushing it
<stipa>
into the laptop market
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<IgorPec>
but all those new arm things are arm64
<IgorPec>
worse case scenario, arm32 will stuck at some kernel version ... like we have it for some exotics
<pmjdebruijn>
well, if it's stuck at an LTS kernel, it's slightly less worse :)
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<stipa>
something stinks about that article
<stipa>
i can't clearly pinpoint what exactly
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<stipa>
it is clearly written by someone who ain't in Linux and is afraid of loosing support since the article is about how to keep linux society from not advancing so that we can earn as much mony as possible since deploying new software would cost us billions...
<stipa>
machines over 20 years old have support till this day...
<stipa>
so i don't know where "10 years" comes from
<pmjdebruijn>
10 years?
<pmjdebruijn>
the time frame?
<pmjdebruijn>
normal kernels are only maintained a few motnsh
<pmjdebruijn>
LTS kernels usually 3-5 years
<pmjdebruijn>
CIP 10 years
<pmjdebruijn>
so there is nothing strange going on there
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<pmjdebruijn>
don't confuse maintainership and development
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<stipa>
python script automating gas valves will run nicely for more than a decade...
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<stipa>
on wahtever kernel
<stipa>
i hope tje actual jobs will get people who know what they're doing
<stipa>
the*
<stipa>
it won't be a problem to fix bugs if there are any in the kernel they'll use, it'll probably be a distro as well
<stipa>
and there's going to be money involved
<stipa>
so, maintaining one distro for that kind of stuff won't be that hard
<stipa>
and people will gladly maintain that piece of crap for money
<pmjdebruijn>
you mean like most arm boards who don't have a maintained kernel at all
<pmjdebruijn>
and they're stuck with a bunch of security vluns
<Xogium>
heh
<pmjdebruijn>
now with stuff getting mainlined it's getting better
<Xogium>
but not for all
<stipa>
there's a bunch of jobs "End-users of CIP include systems for electric power generation and energy distribution, oil and gas, water and wastewater, healthcare, communications, transportation, and community management..." There some money involved...
<Xogium>
*cough cough* asus router
<Xogium>
with a 2.4 kernel
<pmjdebruijn>
stipa: most companies just take risks if you think they can get away with it
<pmjdebruijn>
money not spent is more profit
<pmjdebruijn>
by providing a well maintained upstream cip is hoping to lower the barrier where the hope is they we all end up with better maintained devices, because it won't cost the business all too much in the end
<Xogium>
yeah the nasa is one hell of a good example… It was a physical issue but still. They were repeatedly told by their engineers that having two liquids leaking from the badly designed shutters was a bad idea
<Xogium>
they chose to ignore the warnings
<Xogium>
well, guess what ? The challenger probe exploded and killed everyone inside
<Xogium>
talk about not spending money to fix a very dangerous problem :p
<stipa>
well guys, i was happy there for a moment
<stipa>
you have ruined it
<pmjdebruijn>
yeah but in that case they're issues like funding being tied to success etc
<Xogium>
yep true, but still trying to avoid spending money to fix one very important problem
<stipa>
i guess Debian crowd will pull that one out somehow
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