sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<amiller>
gmaxwell: thanks
<amiller>
all the main statistics in the monerolink paper, even the catchy teasers (62% of all transaction inputs), are explicitly about transactions that opt in to privacy by including 1 or more mixin
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<amiller>
figure 1 is a high level illustration of the privacy mechanisms and baseline, not a statistic, i'm very sure you're making a rhetorical point and figure 1 isn't improved by doing what you suggest
<gmaxwell>
amiller: It's not possible in monero (anymore) to not include multiple mixins.
<gmaxwell>
(AFAIK)
<gmaxwell>
amiller: It's not a rhetorical point, I earnestly think this is misleading and that perhaps your personal conflict of interest may be preventing you from seeing that.
<gmaxwell>
I don't have anything to do with monero or zcash and I saw that and was really disappointed.
<amiller>
i think what you're suggesting is clarifying in fig 1. that the illustration is of zcash 'shielded transactions' which are optional
<gmaxwell>
amiller: yea, that would be good.
<gmaxwell>
It's a fair point that in monero the combining of users who are not trying to get privacy with ones that are could hurt the ones that are; but in practice the anonymity set could still be much larger.
<amiller>
seems fair, added to todo
<gmaxwell>
Cool. thanks!
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<aguyonabike>
Hi, I was wondering if Segwit could be changed to be covert-asicboost-compatible? The way I figure this could be done is similar to the extension blocks proposal, adding a special transaction "at the end" instead of using coinbase for the witness commit
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<luke-jr>
aguyonabike: it doesn't matter where the commitment is
<luke-jr>
you could drop the commitment altogether, but that'd open up DoS attacks
<luke-jr>
you could also drop the txid commitment with a HF, but that would break some of the benefits of segwit
<luke-jr>
in any case, making it covert-ASICBoost-compatible would be a bad thing even if it could be done
<sipa>
i disagree partially
<sipa>
segwit's goal is not to fix asicboost
<sipa>
i think those should be treated as independent improvements
<sipa>
however, i don't see a way to do segwit in a softfork compatible sane way that doesn't break covert asicboost
<sipa>
the commitment has to go somewhere
<aguyonabike>
agree it's a bad thing. maybe I don't understand asicboost' hash collision correctly; but if the rightmost part is the one that gets shuffled for hash collisions, you still have some additional work because of including the commitment there, but can reuse some work
<sipa>
i don't think so
<sipa>
the collision search that makes it efficient breaks down as soon as there is any commitment in the tree
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<adiabat>
question about DER encoding -- seems every non-segwit tx I broadcast to testnet3 is getting malleated recently
<adiabat>
here's a modified signature: 493046022100aa9b63288749ef889921c257d26a46ff4007990b5e720f5c3b2ec08039717dc3022100d312c22042c1e7e3fe2c1a558c28b9078bbdaf1b72648282320b32374230e35d012102308b1f5e1dc97e701bdf67a2d55292bd02ed9235608bccabe3070936315dab80
<adiabat>
why doen't bip66 make this invalid...?
<sipa>
that doesn't look invalid to me
<adiabat>
here's the signature I generated: 483045022100aa9b63288749ef889921c257d26a46ff4007990b5e720f5c3b2ec08039717dc302202ced3ddfbd3e181c01d3e5aa73d746f72ef12dcb3ce41db98dc72c558e055de4012102308b1f5e1dc97e701bdf67a2d55292bd02ed9235608bccabe3070936315dab80
<adiabat>
the extra 00 byte is OK? huh.
<sipa>
i'm confused
<adiabat>
me too :) I broadcast the 4830... signature
<sipa>
well bip66 doesn't even try to fix malleability
<sipa>
its goal was to require a strict encoding for signature data
<adiabat>
ok sure but I thought that it would prevent this lenthening of the sencond value here
<sipa>
my brain's DER parse is a bit rusty :)
<adiabat>
clearly it doesn't, right... I just want to understand more about exactly what malleability is happening and if it's the miner or any random node doing it
<adiabat>
it seems pretty reliable in that every non-segwit txid changes
<adiabat>
so someone is having fun on testnet3
<adiabat>
Or is bip146 (low-s) not activated on testnet? maybe it's just that
<sipa>
sec, trying to parse
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<sipa>
ok, i was confused by the pubkey at the end
<sipa>
that's indeed just a high-s signature
<sipa>
maybe the block is produced by a non-segwit miner?
<sipa>
does a segwit node accept that chain?
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<adiabat>
yeah all nodes seem to accept it; it's confirmed in tx 17f3a89657d6b3e27fcfcaddfca705af6ff193da0c3a6213c1aa03df220d9d91, height 1118918
<adiabat>
that block has what looks like a witness commitment...
<adiabat>
yeah, seems like there are legit segwit txs in that block
<adiabat>
also it was reliable last night; every tx with a non-segwit input was getting confirmed with a different txid
<adiabat>
well, all the more reason to not use non-segwit inputs I suppose :)
<sipa>
bip147 is about the dummy element in checkmultisig
<sipa>
not low-s
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<adiabat>
right 146 is low-s... anyway I hadn't realized it wasn't active on testnet
<adiabat>
even as policy I guess?
<adiabat>
nullfail is enforced though, as policy but not consensus, I'm pretty sure about that one
<sipa>
bip146 never was proposed for deployment
<sipa>
(though it took me a while to remember that)
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<adiabat>
not worth it? But might as well do it as policy at least, similar to nullfail