ELLIOTTCABLE changed the topic of #elliottcable to: a _better_ cult
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<whitequark> katlogic: pirated copy?
<whitequark> there's literally no functional difference between licensed and unlicensed st, except for the nag dialog
<whitequark> and in fact you could get rid of it yourself using gdb, sed and ten minutes of your time
<whitequark> it's not obfuscated or even stripped. find something like license::check_license() and patch in mov $1, %rax; ret
<whitequark> retq? idfk
<whitequark> ELLIOTTCABLE: I'm very much explicitly uninterested in discussing programming languages anymore. At all. Anime however is another question...
<mcc> i am implementing a language interpreter and this is making less and less sense every day
<whitequark> mcc: o/
<whitequark> I remember commenting on your blog. it was odd to realize that there's no way to subscribe to further comments.
<mcc> there isn't?
<mcc> i'm using some old wordpress. i don't understand wordpress.
<whitequark> well, I spent like ten minutes trying to figure it out and eventually gave up -_-
<whitequark> pretty much no way to have a sustainable discussion that I found. it was sad.
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<devyn> ELLIOTTCABLE: hah, I see you put that terminal emulator app to good use
<devyn> I love that thing
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<ELLIOTTCABLE> devyn: right?
<joelteon> right
<ELLIOTTCABLE> mcc: shit, remind me to get you to continue your introduction, later
<ELLIOTTCABLE> mcc: I completely forgot.
<joelteon> what should i have for dinner
<ELLIOTTCABLE> now I've got Tim *and* andi doing languages I want to give feedback on
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and also a router to exercise (whitequark?), and more electronics shit to learn, and Paws.js to continue to evolve
<ELLIOTTCABLE> and a job to apply for >:
<whitequark> ha, ELLIOTTCABLE finally finds himself a job
<mcc> elliotcable: sure! ^_^
<whitequark> what, all bitcoin money spent on drugs? ;P
<mcc> rn i am sleepy tho
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<devyn> you bring me sun sun sun sun shine-a
<katlogic> whitequark: Because of people like us, author of st will starve to death!
<katlogic> (obviously patched binary without the nag is pirated copy :)
* devyn dances
<whitequark> katlogic: what? I paid him twice.
<whitequark> I'm not sure I like that, in retrospect. Lazy fucker who ignores bugreports :/
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<whitequark> quite proud of that hack
<katlogic> e2muchtimeonyourhands
<katlogic> alas, binary patch would be more useful for most people, that gdb script/ld preload could be tedious for some folks
<whitequark> wat?
<whitequark> binary patch would be version-dependent, I'm not going to redo it a hundred times
<whitequark> and LD_PRELOAD is basically one package away: https://launchpad.net/~whitequark/+archive/sublime-imethod-fix
<katlogic> You're putting too much faith into how much the binary actually changes between versions :)
<katlogic> usually only when compiled with new gcc
<katlogic> which is once every 2 years or so
<whitequark> I'd still have to update the checksum in the compatibility list or something
<whitequark> and I hate the very idea of that
<katlogic> compatibility list of wat?
<katlogic> nah, its just search and replace
<katlogic> just like the nag screen crack
<whitequark> compatibility list of binaries
<katlogic> Yeah, binary patching is not exactly OCD friendly
<katlogic> but works most of the time and its super easy for target audience :)
<whitequark> unfortunately, it's not as simple as flipping a few bits, I'd have to find a free section and add a few jumps
<whitequark> I'm lost as to what is "super easy" here
<whitequark> easier than installing a package, even
<katlogic> whitequark: just sayin, theres empirical evidence to support my claim in comments under that blog :)
<whitequark> wat?
<whitequark> the issue described in the comments was related to the fact that the guy didn't select xim as the GTK input method
<whitequark> it is not in any way whatsoever related to my patching method
<whitequark> and again, I challenge you to present *any* facet in which binary patching is simpler or easier than LD_PRELOAD
<whitequark> the LD_PRELOAD hack even works across sublime major versions without changes (the packages are different because of dependencies)
<katlogic> whitequark: In general, yes, that makes it easier for you, but not for target audience.
<katlogic> Significant amount of sublimetext users barely know what gcc and gdb is.
<whitequark> ...
<whitequark> what?
<whitequark> have you even *read* the *first three paragraphs*?
<katlogic> nah; its tl;dr
<katlogic> just read the comments
<whitequark> oh
<whitequark> thanks; it's convenient to know that it's pointless to talk to you
<katlogic> whitequark: Out of curiosity, where you point out to that petrov guy he didn't have input method selected?
<katlogic> poor soul had to pull your ppa
<whitequark> "Edit: I've actually make it force GTK_IM_MODULE to xim in version 1.1.1, so it should now work regardless."
<whitequark> and above: " Try also (together with LD_PRELOAD) exporting GTK_IM_MODULE=xim. From what I've seen in GTK source, this should override any other setting."
<whitequark> it turns out that LD_PRELOAD thing in the package itself always worked, and he just didn't set GTK_IM_MODULE properly, based on the observed effects.
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<whitequark> ELLIOTTCABLE: btw, here's a thing: https://github.com/em/gcanvas
<whitequark> it's bad (doesn't work for my purposes) but not too bad (seems architecturally ok and well-written)
<whitequark> (bad) the gcode renderer it implements is too primitive for anything moderately advanced (also, javascript). but ok as a first step.
<whitequark> frankly I still think that, given you want to stay in FOSS world, it's best to translate artwork to gcode with (any) CAM, and then write the rest parametrically, by hand
<whitequark> pen and paper beats freecad by like a thousand miles, unless you do something really complex, in which case freecad doesn't currently cut it too.
<whitequark> (e.g. no working assembly workbench...)
<whitequark> with 3D printers, you have openscad, which works, because transforming STL to 3D printer gcode is fairly trivial
<whitequark> at worst, you have to add some supports
<whitequark> but transforming STL to a CNC mill gcode is absolutely *not* trivial, in fact most commercial software does it pretty badly
<whitequark> starting with the fact that STL is a really shitty format for a model; it can't represent *any* curved elements, only meshes
<whitequark> with the resolution and principles of work of a 3D printer it's not that bad, but for a mill it is
<whitequark> e.g. commecial sw does reconstruction of arcs from their straight-line approximation to make the result bearable
<whitequark> so a proper format to store models would be STEP (or IGES, but IGES is kinda horrible; it dates back to EBCDIC days), which stores the models as NURBs
<whitequark> but then even transforming such data to trivial 3D-printer gcode is very hard, much less if you add all the insane tricks that proper CAM needs to do, so there's basically zilch of them
<whitequark> and the opensource foundations for CAD/CAM are truly horrifying. the best thing you can currently find is OpenCASCADE. it's an obscure, overcomplicated, enterprisey API in C++ which makes you wish you'd rather put your hands in a blender rather than try to write code compatible with it
<whitequark> and there's not much choice otherwise
<whitequark> </rant>
<mcc> this sounds awful
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<whitequark> mcc: it's a pain, yes
<whitequark> I've tried to get started several times, but the math has a nasty habit of defeating me completely.
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<whitequark> I mean, I sort of suck at trivial analytical geometry, stuff like "determine whether the 2D shape is convex or concave"
<whitequark> I can do it, but it's extremely cognitively demanding
<whitequark> and working with NURBs defeats me.
<whitequark> my dream is to implement a 5-axis CAM, but I'm afraid I'll never actually do that
<whitequark> it *looks* simple, and it conceptually *is* simple, but actually programming it... bleargh. Extremely contrived.
<whitequark> Much more so if you want it fast.
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<glowcoil> devyn: happy birthday!
<glowcoil> devyn: (...if you want one)
<glowcoil> whitequark: oh shit (re gcanvas)
<glowcoil> whitequark: isn't it a bit worrying how much browser apis get enshrined
<joelteon> hey guys, i have a question
<joelteon> i have an SSL question
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<joelteon> never mind
<joelteon> found my answer
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<glowcoil> alexgordon: I liked what you were saying a long time ago about how to truly get better at an instrument
<alexgordon> ?
<alexgordon> remind me
<glowcoil> alexgordon: about it being like, not building muscle memory but making your brain learn the language of it
<alexgordon> oh
<alexgordon> yeah
<alexgordon> well you have to do _both_
<glowcoil> of course yeah yeha
<alexgordon> procedural and declarative memory
<glowcoil> but yeah the ability to improvise or play a melody by ear doesn't come from rote practice, it comes from a ruthless kind of mental practice
<glowcoil> building the mental tools
<alexgordon> right
<alexgordon> just like becoming a writer doesn't come from writing loads of books, it comes from reading loads of books
<alexgordon> you can write a ton of books and still be a shitty writer
<alexgordon> glowcoil: I do like 10 minutes of practice a day and maybe 6 hours of listening (while I'm working)
<alexgordon> seems to work well
<alexgordon> 20 minutes practice would be better
<alexgordon> but *shrugs*
<purr> ¯\(º_o)/¯
<glowcoil> haha yeah
<glowcoil> it's that ira glass quote about taste
<glowcoil> all the good artists start out with great taste but bad skills
<glowcoil> and so it's the 10,000 hours that bridge the gap b/t taste and skills in your own work
<glowcoil> but yeah taste is the foundation
<alexgordon> glowcoil: also it's way more enjoyable. if you practice too much then you never surprise yourself
<glowcoil> that's a good point
<alexgordon> and people can get a bit uninventive
<alexgordon> constantly reinforcing the same stuff
<alexgordon> whereas with listening, I can hop from genre to genre
<alexgordon> build up a wide range of different styles
<glowcoil> ooh ooh hopefully i'm going to be playing piano in a jazz ensemble at my university in the near future
<alexgordon> then when I play, it's always a different mix
<alexgordon> I'd be interested to know how chris potter practices, since the guy is basically god
<alexgordon> if you're a sax player ;)
<alexgordon> he probably does a bit more than 20 mins
<alexgordon> glowcoil: I guess for piano (all instruments really) you have to develop your memory for harmonies
<alexgordon> I dunno how you would do such a thing
<alexgordon> it just comes naturally to me I guess
<joelteon> you get a feel for it
<joelteon> you just kinda know man
<alexgordon> xD
<alexgordon> I love music, it's so opposite to programming
<alexgordon> the two can peacefully coexist in different parts of my brain
<glowcoil> alexgordon: the main thing i need to get better at is voicing chords more effortlessly
<glowcoil> alexgordon: so i don't have to pause to figure out where the notes are
<alexgordon> yeah
<alexgordon> _that_ is practice
<alexgordon> like, bottom on stool practice
<alexgordon> glowcoil: just remember it's not what you put in, it's what you leave out
<alexgordon> unless you're mccoy tyner then press ALL the keys
<glowcoil> alexgordon: ooh thanks
<glowcoil> alexgordon: yeah that seems to be true in my limitied experience?
<glowcoil> capture the unique parts of the chord but don't cluster everything up
<glowcoil> man i need to do a *lot* more bottom on stool practice haha
<alexgordon> glowcoil: you gotta remember that if there are other people playing they might want to play the notes you leave out
<glowcoil> ahh good point
<alexgordon> and nobody plays randomly, so they'll get used to your "style" of leaving stuff out
<alexgordon> and learn to play in those gaps
<glowcoil> haha i see what you mean about mccoy tyner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PukuQPUKfyU
<glowcoil> ooh
<glowcoil> i really want to just actually play with real people now
<glowcoil> done it *very* little
<alexgordon> yeah
<glowcoil> it's cool though, got a lot of things lined up in the near future hopefully
<glowcoil> hopefully going to be producing/engineering for like a punk-ish girl band my friends are starting (has a good chance of happening but you know how these things are)
<glowcoil> going to do some cool soundtrackey electronic collabs with a friend hopefully
<glowcoil> and 2 ensembles with the university hopefully
<alexgordon> glowcoil: sounds like fun
<glowcoil> alexgordon: been doing much recently?
<alexgordon> glowcoil: not music. wwdc tomorrow
<alexgordon> (not going)
<alexgordon> but they'll probably announce 10.10 syria
<alexgordon> so
<alexgordon> gotta get choc ready
<alexgordon> glowcoil: then holiday
<glowcoil> 10.10 syria?
<glowcoil> alexgordon: fun, where?
<alexgordon> glowcoil: well the rumours were that they were going to call it "syrah", although it might be redwood or yosemite now
<alexgordon> glowcoil: tropical islands :P
<glowcoil> cool
<glowcoil> ohh 10.10
<glowcoil> ok
<glowcoil> i always thought they had a lot more cats to get through
<glowcoil> a little sad
<alexgordon> 10.9 mavericks...
<joelteon> X.X
<joelteon> so when is OS 11 coming out
<alexgordon> I was convinced 10.8 would be ocelot
<alexgordon> joelteon: never
<glowcoil> alexgordon: yeah there were more cats, mountain lion was grasping when they didn't need to
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