lekernel changed the topic of #m-labs to: Mixxeo, Migen, MiSoC & other M-Labs projects :: fka #milkymist :: Logs http://irclog.whitequark.org/m-labs
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<playthatbeat> ysionneau - i wanted to see if it did away with the F1 bug, then i could have 3 video input sources
<playthatbeat> it sisnt
<playthatbeat> in fact the earlier version lost some commands so my patches didnt work
<playthatbeat> but after brick/unbrick it is alot quicker.. ftp, etc. is all snappier
<playthatbeat> i need now to investigate the MIDI implimentation
<playthatbeat> i want to map CC to values in the patches
<playthatbeat> having the 3 bands of audio as modulation sources in a patch is not enough and a bit samey after a while
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<larsc> meh, all the bistreams that come out of vivado seem to be broken for me
<lekernel> playthatbeat, just copy and paste from wikipedia and other online resources
<larsc> are those the people that publish random wikipedia articales as books?
<lekernel> yes
<larsc> so they took the milkymist wiki and made a book out of it?
<larsc> or your thesis
<lekernel> apparently... I guess a sizable part of their revenue comes from authors who'd shell out $67 to find out, but they don't include me :-)
<larsc> hehe
<playthatbeat> $67 is a bit steep
<lekernel> that's how it works, I don't think they sell a lot of copies. also, it's print-on-demand.
<playthatbeat> we shoud do a book on them and their scam
<lekernel> they basically churn out thousands of titles, most of them never selling, and when one sales happens there's a nice profit margin
<lekernel> bah, they're not even the worst "academic publisher". look at elsevier :-)
<playthatbeat> ironic that they sell via ebay, and anyone that can see ebay and use paypal can surely use a search engine...
<playthatbeat> wait, is 'ironic' the right word
<playthatbeat> maybe i meant 'cheeky' or 'bullshit'
<playthatbeat> never could correctly apply that word
<lekernel> many elsevier books are over $400, and that's just the tip of the iceberg
<playthatbeat> well i suppose it's a legitimate 'transcription service'
<playthatbeat> if you didnt have a printer or hands it would be useful
<playthatbeat> ish
<playthatbeat> also: is there anything written re: the milkymist 1 and midi?
<playthatbeat> or is it all obvious if i dig about
<playthatbeat> i'm looking to ass CC values into patches
<playthatbeat> *add
<ysionneau> hi
<playthatbeat> morning
<ysionneau> 08:33 < playthatbeat> i want to map CC to values in the patches < what does "CC" mean?
<ysionneau> I played a bit with the M1 and midi-usb
<playthatbeat> oh CC is 'continuous controller'
<playthatbeat> like the mod wheel
<playthatbeat> or even to some extent pitch bend or aftertouch
<playthatbeat> but there are like 100 CC numbers that can have value 0-127 available in midi
<playthatbeat> so to be able to use a Midi CC source instead of (say) the BASS value in a patch would be awesome
<playthatbeat> then you could build proper animation sequences using a midi sequencer
<lekernel> that's possible, yes
<playthatbeat> orly?
* playthatbeat sweats
<lekernel> you have midi0, midi1, ... variables in patches
<playthatbeat> aha
<lekernel> which you can assign to CC channels in the "MIDI settings"
<playthatbeat> looooooooovely
<lekernel> wpwrak made a more complete (and complex) system later... don't know if you have that one already
<playthatbeat> im on the march 1st firmware from the website
<ysionneau> yep I confirm I used the "midi0 midi1" stuff
<ysionneau> as well as the new wpwrak system
<ysionneau> I could control a patch by using this midi controller: http://www.korg.com/services/products/nanoseries2/NanoKONTROL2_black_MAIN.png
<playthatbeat> the midi settings dialog seems only to allow mapping note value to patch change
<ysionneau> and I could even control a DMX RGB led with the midi controller (via the M1)
<ysionneau> playthatbeat: look at that : http://milkymist.org/updates/current/patches/Geiss%20&%20Werner%20-%20Tornado%20%28Rain%20Dance%20MIDI%20RMX%29.fnp
<ysionneau> that's the "new" system
<lekernel> fortunately, it's well documented
<lekernel> :)
<ysionneau> what's pretty nice with wpwrak's work it's that it's usually pretty well documented
<ysionneau> at least in an email
<lekernel> there's the pdf doc as well
<ysionneau> yep
<playthatbeat> ok this all looks very interesting
<playthatbeat> and this all runs on the last official downloadable firmware for the m1?
<playthatbeat> or do i need to compile a fork?
<playthatbeat> or whatnot?
<lekernel> if you don't have the midiX<->channel number mapping in the MIDI settings, then you have this new system
<playthatbeat> all i have in midi settings is 'patch switch channel' and 2 fieds for setting note to filename bindings
<playthatbeat> oh and 'last active controller:'
<ysionneau> playthatbeat: what I do is I open the mini dialog, I move a fader on my controller
<ysionneau> and it will show up in the dialog with the identifier and the value
<ysionneau> I write down the identifier
<ysionneau> and I can then use it in the Patch (with wpwrak syntax) to assign the value to a variable
<ysionneau> -mini dialog+midi dialog
<playthatbeat> kk i get you
<playthatbeat> let me try some midi in and see what i see
<playthatbeat> btw, i use this: http://mutable-instruments.net/midipal
<playthatbeat> to turn voltages into midi cc
<playthatbeat> my voltages come from modular gear clocked/synced to audio
<ysionneau> is it midi-usb?
<playthatbeat> no
<playthatbeat> standalone
<ysionneau> ok
<playthatbeat> no computers
<ysionneau> never tried the midi connectors
<ysionneau> 10:53 < playthatbeat> no computers < I meant, is it using a USB connexion?
<playthatbeat> no
<ysionneau> for instance my korg nanokontrol2 is using USB (midi over usb) but I can use it standalone with no PC
<ysionneau> and just the M1
<playthatbeat> the midipal is standalone, no usb
<ysionneau> ok :)
<playthatbeat> it has minijack ins (up to 8) for voltages 0-5v and you can translate these to midi CC or events
<playthatbeat> a reverse midi to CV :)
<playthatbeat> so you can feed it things like envelope follower outputs
<ysionneau> sounds nice
<ysionneau> but you kind of lost me
<playthatbeat> or the out of an analogue sequencer
<ysionneau> I don't know much about midi stuff
<playthatbeat> well how about his:
<ysionneau> or electronic music stuff
<playthatbeat> you know the way the M1 can respond to audio level?
<ysionneau> yes
<playthatbeat> how about having it respond to voltage levels instead
<playthatbeat> and those voltages can be generated by [insert device here]
<playthatbeat> i just use the Midipal to convert those voltages into midi
<playthatbeat> even think about using a note value in a patch
<playthatbeat> then you could play a midi keyboard and change the patch
<playthatbeat> the nice thing about midi is you get to layer control values and can loop them at different lengths
<playthatbeat> so a 4 bar loop and a 3 bar loop at the same time can appear to the naked eye to be alot more complex then it actually is
<playthatbeat> or 3/4 and 4/4 together is quite pleasing
<playthatbeat> etc.
<playthatbeat> im just tryign to get away from stuff pumping to the beat
<playthatbeat> *trying
<ysionneau> ok I get it now :)
<ysionneau> what kind of devices generate voltages to be used for visual effects?
<ysionneau> or music
<playthatbeat> step sequencers
<playthatbeat> this is a favorite
<playthatbeat> it follows MTC in
<playthatbeat> from this is use it's gate outs to advance [other] sequencers
<playthatbeat> like th SQ8 and GT 8 here: http://www.analoguesolutions.org.uk/concussor/c-modules.htm
<playthatbeat> these in turn send out voltages to the midipal which then makes a pattern of midi CC
<playthatbeat> and i use those CC to make stuff happen in various devices and software
<playthatbeat> eg: assigning a CC to zoom level or 3d tilt in Vjamm3 is amusing
<playthatbeat> sure beats 'pumping to the beat'
<playthatbeat> lo
<playthatbeat> l
<playthatbeat> anyway i have the m1 showing CC in now nicely..
<playthatbeat> thanks guys..
<playthatbeat> new lease of life for the m1 here
* playthatbeat buys everyone drink
<ysionneau> :)
<ysionneau> I'm glad you won't put the M1 in the bin !
<playthatbeat> now to convert the stock patches to midi cc modulation
<playthatbeat> subtle changes in all of them will make for a more syncronised display
<playthatbeat> btw - the key to this is using an audio-mtc engine
<playthatbeat> hardware that listens to the music and on the fly generates mtc in sync
<playthatbeat> this means all you need is an audio feed and everything will sync as long as you kick it off on a downbeat
<playthatbeat> then you can just work on pulling faces and tweaking knobs and faders
<playthatbeat> even if the ausio source changes tempo you can rely on your timing source to chase it
<playthatbeat> *audio
<playthatbeat> you can set scene changes every 4 bars or whatever
<playthatbeat> some basic patching of sequencers can make for fractal-like evolution
<ysionneau> what's a "bar" ?
<playthatbeat> a bar is 4 kick drums
<playthatbeat> you count 1,2,3,4 to the music
<playthatbeat> thats 1 bar
<playthatbeat> there are 4 beats in a bar
<playthatbeat> this gives you 4/4 timing
<playthatbeat> and you if you use the number 4 as a modulus in patches or sequences
<ysionneau> ah ok
<playthatbeat> then you get sympathetic changes
<playthatbeat> 4 is the magic number lol
<ysionneau> if the music timing is 4/4 then indeed it's natural to use this timing
<playthatbeat> listen to modern music - it is all made up of patterns of 4
<ysionneau> if it's 6/8 then I guess it's more 3
<playthatbeat> 6/8 or 3/4 is fun
<playthatbeat> running 3/4 alongside 4/4 makes for interesting interactions
<playthatbeat> like every 6 bars the patterns seem to sync
<ysionneau> interesting :)
<playthatbeat> triplet timing is big these days in some music
<playthatbeat> like psy trance
<playthatbeat> so you get sections that drop into 8t timing
<playthatbeat> 3 beats per bar
<playthatbeat> 'swing'
<playthatbeat> this can confuse some BPM engines
<playthatbeat> which is always lulz
<ysionneau> :)
<playthatbeat> unrelated q: do you get the patch name on screen if you hit F1 like i do?
<ysionneau> I never tried
<ysionneau> + I don't have any working keyboard for the M1
<ysionneau> I only have USB mouse ^^
<playthatbeat> orite
<playthatbeat> well F1 F2 F3 should switch between the 3 video inputs
<playthatbeat> this works fine, but F1 always splashes up the patch name :(
<playthatbeat> weird
<ysionneau> what do you mean by "3 video inputs" ?
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<ysionneau> I thought there was only 1 video input (the camera)
<playthatbeat> no the phono sockets on the mm can be 3 composite ins
<playthatbeat> or i think a single s-video or single componant
<playthatbeat> while it is running you can flip between the 3 ins using the keyboard f1 f2 f3 keys
<playthatbeat> very useful
<playthatbeat> so you can flip from camera to feedback or whatever
<playthatbeat> ok i have this responding to midi like a champion now
<lekernel> playthatbeat, :) cool. please send videos/pictures :)
<playthatbeat> it's coping well with 5 CCs at once
<playthatbeat> 1 is an envelope follower, 4 are from sequencers
<playthatbeat> ok this is POC for me
<playthatbeat> now ill edit up all the stock patches to follow midi CC and build a bank of midi-synced fun
<playthatbeat> THEN WE SHALL SEE
* playthatbeat adds reverb for a long cartoon vbad-guy laugh
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<ysionneau> yes please send pictures/videos :)
<playthatbeat> im getting too sucked in to tweaking
<playthatbeat> er..
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<lekernel> quizz: what does Verilog print?
<lekernel> $display(2'd2 + 2'd2);
<lekernel> $display(2'd2 + 2'd2 >= 2'd1);
<lekernel> (hint: it's as fucked up as always)
<lekernel> and for $display(3'd4 >= 2'd1) too
<GitHub91> [misoc] sbourdeauducq pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/6fELvg
<GitHub91> misoc/master e464935 Sebastien Bourdeauducq: downscaler: add chopper module
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<ysionneau> $display(2'd2 + 2'd2); <= 1 ?
<ysionneau> or no, 0
<lekernel> no :)
<ysionneau> 4 ? =)
<lekernel> yes
<ysionneau> so the 2 bits value gets transformed into 3 bits value
<ysionneau> nice
<larsc> well that's expected, isn't it
<larsc> addition adds one bit
<lekernel> yes, this one is actually sane
<lekernel> but then
<lekernel> 3'd4 >= 2'd1 is 1, which is also what you would expect
<lekernel> and 2'd2 + 2'd2 >= 2'd1 is 0 :)
<larsc> ah, I see
<larsc> and is that expected behaviour?
<lekernel> I guess this is another pedantic imbecility of the verilog standard, but I can't pinpoint it yet...
<lekernel> http://excamera.com/sphinx/fpga-verilog-sign.html "While it’s legal to write comparisons between values with different sizes and signednesses, the rules are so confusing that you’re better off converting the arguments explicitly beforehand." hahaha
<ysionneau> :/
<lekernel> "This description is left over from Verilog-1995, before there were signed operands. It is simply wrong now. [...] This description wasn't even correct in Verilog-1995."
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<lekernel> hmm, the standard says the smaller operand should be extended
<lekernel> so it should work...
<lekernel> maybe it's just a iverilog bug
<lekernel> xilinx isim produces 2'd2 + 2'd2 = 0, 3'd4 >= 2'd1 = 1, 2'd2 + 2'd2 >= 2'd1 = 0
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<lekernel> I think I understand - the width of the right handside of the comparison determines the width of the addition
<lekernel> "Verilog's rules for operand expansion reflect how hardware works" - WTF
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<playthatbeat> ysionneau lekernel - https://vimeo.com/84694343
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<ysionneau> ah xilinx just did the tape out of their 20 nm Virtex ultrascale
<ysionneau> playthatbeat: the result looks good, well done :)
<ysionneau> so you're not at all using the audio input ?
<ysionneau> only input is midi then?
<playthatbeat> yes
<playthatbeat> all midi
<ysionneau> cool!
<playthatbeat> im working thru the patches now converting them to midi cc
<playthatbeat> replaceing the time,bass,mid and treb variables with midi CC
<playthatbeat> because i can
<playthatbeat> just opened up the raindance.fnp and i see it has already got extensive midi support
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